General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: cav58d on May 14, 2017, 10:47:41 AM
Title: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: cav58d on May 14, 2017, 10:47:41 AM
City strat object hardness - 844
Every other strat object hardness - 313
Why?
As you have seen from my other posts, I think strats should be hard to get to, hard to take down and hard to resupply. High risk, high payout.
Personally I'd like to see all the strats hardness increased to at least the city level, and in addition I think the AAA factory hardness needs to be even further increased beyond that.
Pork any strat and you reap the benefits while on the offensive side of a base capture, but as soon as you get that field you might find the city buildings and ammo are down for 90 minutes because you took the strats down so low. That applies to all starts except AAA. AAA Factory could be at 0% yet the second you get a base capture, the auto guns are back up. Don't get me wrong, I think the auto guns should come back up, but right now the strat system is out of balance. There is no penalty for major porking of AAA. Is increasing the hardness a solution? I don't know but it's probably a good start.
Thoughts?
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: Dundee on May 14, 2017, 08:41:48 PM
In AH II it took 5 rounds from a 75mm to take down a whole block.......... now it 6 or 7 to just take down 1 building ......as not to infringe on the "Fur Ball"
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 15, 2017, 01:35:37 AM
As you have seen from my other posts, I think strats should be hard to get to, hard to take down and hard to resupply. High risk, high payout.
Personally I'd like to see all the strats hardness increased to at least the city level, and in addition I think the AAA factory hardness needs to be even further increased beyond that.
Pork any strat and you reap the benefits while on the offensive side of a base capture, but as soon as you get that field you might find the city buildings and ammo are down for 90 minutes because you took the strats down so low. That applies to all starts except AAA. AAA Factory could be at 0% yet the second you get a base capture, the auto guns are back up. Don't get me wrong, I think the auto guns should come back up, but right now the strat system is out of balance. There is no penalty for major porking of AAA. Is increasing the hardness a solution? I don't know but it's probably a good start.
Thoughts?
You lost me on this one. What do you mean about "No penalty"? Are you wanting the auto guns to be the same after capture as the town and ord bunkers? Guess it was " They should come back" vs No penalty. Then again I really don't know how all that works :uhoh So now I ask...Are down times after capture based on capturing country's down times or the former owners? If the capturing, you are wanting the gun down times based on the capturing country's down times? I believe the guns come back after capture to make it a bit harder to rush in an m3 to retake? Thus using any AAA porking to be relevant?
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: LocoMoto on May 15, 2017, 02:28:19 AM
Its crap :bhead all of it
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: cav58d on May 15, 2017, 09:01:42 AM
You lost me on this one. What do you mean about "No penalty"? Are you wanting the auto guns to be the same after capture as the town and ord bunkers? Guess it was " They should come back" vs No penalty. Then again I really don't know how all that works :uhoh So now I ask...Are down times after capture based on capturing country's down times or the former owners? If the capturing, you are wanting the gun down times based on the capturing country's down times? I believe the guns come back after capture to make it a bit harder to rush in an m3 to retake? Thus using any AAA porking to be relevant?
The capturing country takes over the real estate and down times of the defeated.
And yes, there is no penalty for deep porking of AAA factory. Bring enemy city down to 20% and you enjoy massive town down times, i.e. Plenty of time to capture, however when capture takes place you may be in a white flag situation for multiple hours requiring heavy resup. Large amounts of resup is the penalty. That's the balance with all the strats other then AAA.
AA should come back though like it currently does, I can't think of a way to make it work wiithout it, so therefore my suggestion is harden the anti aircraft factory for balance.
But why stop there, harden ALL the strats. There is no downside. Make us work for it.
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: LocoMoto on May 16, 2017, 12:49:42 PM
The capturing country takes over the real estate and down times of the defeated.
And yes, there is no penalty for deep porking of AAA factory. Bring enemy city down to 20% and you enjoy massive town down times, i.e. Plenty of time to capture, however when capture takes place you may be in a white flag situation for multiple hours requiring heavy resup. Large amounts of resup is the penalty. That's the balance with all the strats other then AAA.
AA should come back though like it currently does, I can't think of a way to make it work wiithout it, so therefore my suggestion is harden the anti aircraft factory for balance.
But why stop there, harden ALL the strats. There is no downside. Make us work for it.
because working for it today just isn't enough is it?
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: cav58d on May 16, 2017, 01:51:00 PM
because working for it today just isn't enough is it?
Porking the strats is stupid easy right now. At least the city requires a little effort and multiple ships to do major damage. What I would like to see is that hardness across all the strats. What is the downside?
PS- I would bet dollars to donuts my squad attacks more strats then any other squad in the game, so yes, I am advocating something that would directly have an effect on me and I'm all for it.
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: lunatic1 on May 16, 2017, 02:09:04 PM
watch it CAV58d you'll receive tie wrath of the bomber pilots--they usally get their way
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 16, 2017, 03:08:52 PM
I don't mean to sound like troll, I really don't understand what it is you are describing. So are you saying that you want the down times of captured towns to be set at "CAPTURING" country's Dtimes? Guns come up quick, but because/if "CAPTURING" country has porked the city strats of country that owned the town, it has to be resupped too much? That's sort of how I am reading it? I don't do a lot of strat activities,maybe run sups to bring them back and occasional tank runs to a strat on Buzzsaw map. Other than that, not much to do with them. I just like knowing what the discussion is about. If I AM reading this right, I could agree with that a bit. If I still have it wrong, I don't mean to be nag, I just don't get it I guess :uhoh
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: cav58d on May 17, 2017, 12:31:13 AM
I don't mean to sound like troll, I really don't understand what it is you are describing. So are you saying that you want the down times of captured towns to be set at "CAPTURING" country's Dtimes? Guns come up quick, but because/if "CAPTURING" country has porked the city strats of country that owned the town, it has to be resupped too much? That's sort of how I am reading it? I don't do a lot of strat activities,maybe run sups to bring them back and occasional tank runs to a strat on Buzzsaw map. Other than that, not much to do with them. I just like knowing what the discussion is about. If I AM reading this right, I could agree with that a bit. If I still have it wrong, I don't mean to be nag, I just don't get it I guess :uhoh
Down times are based on the strat % for the country of ownership at the time of object destruction. If the base happens to be captured while the radar is down for 113 minutes, the capturing country inherites those down times (as they should). That is the balance...mostly.
Pork the radar factory or city strat down super low, the benefit is obviously long down times when attacking a base, and the penalty is that you inherit those massive down times when the base as captures. That works with all the strats BUT AAA. There is no penalty or incentive not to pork someone's AAA factory down to 0% because as soon as a base is captured all the guns will come back up immediately. This is why the AAA factory object hardness should be at least equal to the city strat hardness. It would add balance. But why stop there, I say you increase object hardness on ALL of the strats to city object strength (844lbs vs 313lbs).
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: molybdenum on May 17, 2017, 08:23:46 AM
The non-city strats have also been hardened in ah3 vs ah2 in the sense that the same amount of ords results in significantly less % damage to the strat you hit because there are more factories now. I wasn't thrilled with that but reluctantly learned to live with it. What you are suggesting, though well said and reasoned, would make the game that much less enjoyable for the strat-runner types who seek to help their team achieve its objectives. The game might well lose players if that were to happen; Bowl (the new map) certainly gets me to find better things to do in my afternoons when it is in rotation. The strat situation there--especially the ease of resup--is discouraging, to say the least.
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 17, 2017, 02:47:32 PM
Ok, think I see where you are coming from, now :D I would think that porking down the AAA would still be a plus? It would give the capturing/porking country more time to effect the capture? Sure buildings may come up with a box of sups, but getting the guns up for defense would require more work. Happens a lot, de ack a town and come back later to white flag and run troops. With a good pork job this could be an hour for down times on guns. Most just resup enough to get green flag,with guns still down,so just let it settle a bit before you come for the capture. With the guns coming back after capture it gives a bit of time to run sups to greenflag it. But I wouldn't mind hardening the starts more.
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: Shuffler on May 18, 2017, 04:37:26 PM
I really do not see a problem what one reaps on one side they pay for on the other.
If bases are to hard to take for you then it is the same for them. If bases are easy to take then it will be for the other side too.
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: Dundee on May 18, 2017, 06:51:29 PM
Porking the strats is stupid easy right now. At least the city requires a little effort and multiple ships to do major damage. What I would like to see is that hardness across all the strats. What is the downside?
PS- I would bet dollars to donuts my squad attacks more strats then any other squad in the game, so yes, I am advocating something that would directly have an effect on me and I'm all for it.
Then roll back the resup time back to 4 min per load of cargo............
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 19, 2017, 01:45:36 AM
Was the AH2 standard setting. Towns & field objects 10 minutes, factory objects, city and HQ 4 minutes.
It was changed in reaction to the splitting up of the central strats, where many factories moved to the front, were effectively undefended and thus constantly down. Note that about no factory had convenient ground spawns to them as they do have today.
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: LocoMoto on May 19, 2017, 10:42:42 AM
Was the AH2 standard setting. Towns & field objects 10 minutes, factory objects, city and HQ 4 minutes.
It was changed in reaction to the splitting up of the central strats, where many factories moved to the front, were effectively undefended and thus constantly down. Note that about no factory had convenient ground spawns to them as they do have today.
Right! Instead of buying another pc and account or 2 they complained about it and thus it was changed ruining the experience tremendously.
I knew a guy who was running 3 accounts on the same country for bombing on 3 seperate laptops. He was a resupping machine when he wanted to be. No need to worry about dt back then he was getting 3 to 1 on his returns lol
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 20, 2017, 11:50:44 AM
:aok Yes,I thought he was talking about base and town items. I hated the 4 min strat time! It sort of evened out as far as time spent. I could climb to defend the strats and have the bombers bail, or just run 3 loads of sups in the same amount of time :aok At least with the sups, I got something for my time :rofl
Title: Re: Why is city strat hardness 2.5 x's every other strat?
Post by: Volron on May 20, 2017, 12:14:09 PM
Porking the strats is stupid easy right now. At least the city requires a little effort and multiple ships to do major damage. What I would like to see is that hardness across all the strats. What is the downside?
PS- I would bet dollars to donuts my squad attacks more strats then any other squad in the game, so yes, I am advocating something that would directly have an effect on me and I'm all for it.
If its not your squad its ours. The 49th always has someone hitting strats via GV or Buffs. We're the reason the HQ time is 5 min and the City is hardend.
Once the HQ time dropped we would drop city to 0% then kill HQ and it would be down forever. resup the tanks or m3s and do it again. when this happened Rooks rolled bases come to think about and thats the only time rooks would really roll bases probably due to the fact the defenders started logging off.