Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Blue Mako on September 09, 2001, 11:30:00 PM
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Okay we've all done it, we've all had it happen to us... Spend ages working the bandit, all saddled up, about to open fire and... BOOM! Someone else zooms in, guns blazing and gets the kill. Even worse, you send the bandit spinning down with a nicely aimed burst to the tail or wing only to have a green come in and send a long burst into the plummeting hulk. You see red and curse the "friendly" and wish kill shooter was off... :mad:
This happened to me a couple of times the other night and I apologise for getting a bit upset on the country channel.
The question becomes: "What can we do about it?"
Does anyone have some ideas about what we can do to limit the number of times this happens? Short of educating the virtual pilots out there about the way this cheeses off the wronged party, I can't think of any way to handle it. Then again, I think there might be some who enjoy kill stealing too much to give it up...
Please offer your ideas but I don't want this thread to be a "xxxxx-stole my-kill-and-now-i-want-to-whine-about-it" kind of thread. Constructive ideas only please... yes, I know that will be hard for some of you. :D
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There have been a lot of new pilots flying in AH and they aren't fully aware of the "Code of Conduct" that we have. They will learn and soon the stealing will drop off to almost nothing. I think before the price dropped and there were very few new pilots the steal was almost always because someone didn't realize that the enemy was missing a elevator or something to that effect. Anyway, I think that it will kind of "Fix itself" with time. I know its frustrating, but all I do is think to myself "at least that dweeb Bish (or Knight) is dead" :D
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Okay we've all done it, we've all had it happen to us... Spend ages working the bandit, all saddled up, about to open fire and... BOOM! Someone else zooms in, guns blazing and gets the kill. Even worse, you send the bandit spinning down with a nicely aimed burst to the tail or wing only to have a green come in and send a long burst into the plummeting hulk. You see red and curse the "friendly" and wish kill shooter was off...
LOL, been there and done that :). Had a chog bounce me the other day when I was in an la7, I managed to reverse on him and was about 200 yards away on his dead 6 when he exploded. I was like "HUH?!" I actually though for a second that I had scared him to death or something... then I saw the friendly go tearing by. All I said was "Uhm.. thanks for the help, I guess".. he got the message.
There really isn't anything you can do about it but give it some time, that will fade as the new fliers get more experience in MA etiquitte, as was posted above.
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Death by Killshooteris a drag. You're 350 behind a con and just as you squeeze off a burst someone flys between you and crack! :rolleyes: But until the con is out of action, I think he should be fair game for all. A bit of common sense should come into play here. Why blow alt when he's already got five on him.
But you gotta shake your head when you watch four friendlies chase a con to the deck who is without a doubt down (missing wings etc), pouring lead into them. Bad form that. :mad:
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Yesterday I tangled with a P51 when i ran outta fuel.After burning all my E,I went in for landing/ditching,,,,,,,,,he made several passess spraying all over,I evaded (hard to do without fuel,at low alt,with gear out, and he finally got me,,,,,,,,,,,,this is the same issue "lack of situationawareness" imo,
"You dont shot at a guy with his gear out"
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"The question becomes: "What can we do about it?"
1. Make them blow up. This way there's nothing for the cheap, groveling useless kill stealing snits to get.
2. Don't fly anywhere near Fester. If you have a bogy occupied he'll come in and wack em.
Westy
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Only 2 paragraphs Urchin, wtg!
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Remove the tards from Aces High.
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xxxxx stole my kill and now i want to whine about it!
DAMMIT! I tried....
Roo2104 :D
Edited becuse im StuPid
[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: FDisk ]
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It's hard to tell sometimes if a person is in need of help and not a master like say... urchin. it's hard to tell sometimes if a plane is getting away wounded or just ded..
having said that... I am the victim of steals as much as anyone since i fly fifty cal equipped planes. a cannon potato can steal just about any kill i get if i don't make the kill a pilot or explosion kill.
I guess some allowance should be made for the person who get's in the first shots... maybe weigh the first shots into the con count more or make the determination of what is a kill a little less... after a certain limit is reached nothing else counts?
lazs
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I got over it.
I KNOW when it's MY kill, regardless what the server says. If anybody feels better stealing kills, so be it. I could care less :)
Cheers,
Pepe
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If I see a bad guy down there with a bunch of friendlies, I assume they can handle it at I keep my alt.
If I see a bad guy down there with a friendly on his tail I will circle above the fight in case the friendly loses the advantage. If he does I'll try to save him.
If an enemy aircraft is missing major required bits I will not shoot at it. I have been circling over a fight and been able to see when my guy blew the elevators off of the enemy aircraft so I don't buy the "It didn't look damaged on my FE." excuse after I blew its tail and a wing off and it is spiraling down in a ball of fire.
Some people just really, really want that kill.
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Originally posted by Dawvgrid:
"You dont shot at a guy with his gear out"
Huh? why? Does this mean we can't hit anyone
on landing? Didn't they do this in RL?
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Any plane still in the air is a target. Don't play with your food or I will finish it for you.
Sure I get pissed after working a con for 10 mins to have someone else put a couple of shots in and I get an assist BUT that is life. I scream and yell and go find the next kill.
I will always shoot at any plane that is still airborne. I won't join the 20 planes chasing one bandit for 10 mins group but I will swoop in and help a friendly finish one off before we both get jumped. The whole point is for the bad guy to go down so you can kill the next one. To win a reset it is a team effort. I don't really care overall who gets the credit as long as the guy is dead. :D
If ya don't like it then tough go fly somewhere else.
S!
Rocket
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Your right, this has happened to everyone, Wether is be intintional or not. Now my self if had many steals stolen from me and it is frustrating, but at least im still alive and can go after someone eles. Many times I'v been killed just because no frienlys did help. Im my book thats way more frustrating.
BeachS
483rd Tactical Fighter/Bomber group
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Lets pretend for a minute that it is really important that the bad guys die and that we don't know the ammo state, damage state, etc... of every friendly we see engaged in a fight. I prefer to err on the side of helping a friendly rather than letting him die and I prefer for others to help me also.
It would be nice if HTC modified kill awarding so that after "critical damage" (killing the engine for example) is inflicted on a target the kill award is pre-allocated at that time (even though the con may still be alive), so that the guy who crippled the target still gets the kill if some jerk with cannons (me for example) zooms in and finishes it.
Of course if any Blue Knight damages any target that drex is killing the other Blue Knight should get the kill. Stealing kills from drex is the greatest achievement that can be made within the ranks of the BKs and the code base should be modified to take this into account.
Hooligan
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Oh, I agree that helping a friendly and stealing a kill are two different things. It is one to thing HELP someone stay alive, it is totally another thing to dive down in the hopes that you'll get another scalp for your belt. Unless you are a moron like say... Lazs, it is readily apparent who needs help in a fight and who doesn't. At least it is to me, and I've only been playing this game for 5 months now.
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I'll chime in quickly... bad form to put some lead in a death spiraling plane to snake the kill. Taking shots when the friendly is parked on the bandit's six is also bad form IMO. Just about anything else is fair game to me. As for the shooting you when you're landing thing, what I don't like about that are the ones that'll dive through the ack of field (or worse, a CV group) to do it, only to die immediately after hitting you. Anyways, kills should be awarded as soon as the plane is not flyable.
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urchin... if you believe that you can tell without a doubt, in every case, "easily" when someone is in trouble and needs help or not then... you are either concieted without cause or an idiot or both.
As hooli says... I would rather someone help me when i may not really need it than to have them watch me die while my elevatorless, ammoless Hog trys every trick in the book just to live a few more seconds.
I have had people thank me for saving their butt when I wasn't sure if they were really in trouble. I imagine more than a few have wondered why ol 5 month urchin sat and watched em die when he coulda helped.
lazs
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LOL, "MA Etiquette" lessons from a guy who uses a B-26 as a tank. :)
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Kill the red planes, and be glad when other people kill the red planes. That means less red planes to kill you.
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"You dont shot at a guy with his gear out"[/QB]
That lesson might save your life if you provoke the wrong redneck !
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Originally posted by lazs1:
urchin... if you believe that you can tell without a doubt, in every case, "easily" when someone is in trouble and needs help or not then... you are either concieted without cause or an idiot or both.
As hooli says... I would rather someone help me when i may not really need it than to have them watch me die while my elevatorless, ammoless Hog trys every trick in the book just to live a few more seconds.
I have had people thank me for saving their butt when I wasn't sure if they were really in trouble. I imagine more than a few have wondered why ol 5 month urchin sat and watched em die when he coulda helped.
lazs
You've got an active imagination then. Sure, there are times when I WON'T help someone when they need it. If I would die 5 seconds before or after them whether or not I cleared one of the twenty-four bandits off their tail, I generally don't bother. If I see a guy thats got someone one his tail, I'll ALWAYS send out a check 6, even if I saw the dots furballing. That does two things, it lets the guy know I'm watching, and it maybe gives the guy a clue that someones on his tail. Generally, I'll be asked to help if the guy needs it and he is being chased by someone.
You may not be good at identifying planes in Aces High, I'm fairly decent at it. Using that, and by analyzing the situation the friendly plane (and the enemy plane, which I don't HAVE to identify, since it tells me), I can decide whether or not a plane is outmatched, in my opinion. Some guy turnfighting a Spit in a P47 or P51? Yea, he could probably use some help. Some guy in a Spit being run down by an la7? Yea, he could probably use some help.
Three friendly N1K2's gangbanging a spit? No, they'll probably be alright.
Look, I'm sorry for whatever I did to piss you off. I don't know why you don't care for me, and I honestly don't care much. Just drop it, whatever it was.
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Originally posted by funkedup:
LOL, "MA Etiquette" lessons from a guy who uses a B-26 as a tank. :)
LOL, stupid comments from a moron who wasn't bright enough to vulch a B26 killing the goon that had landed on the field. :)
[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]
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We captured the field and I did vulch you, I just got an assist instead of the kill. :)
PS Don't call me a moron again. Where's the love man? :)
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I thought you were being serious. If you weren't I apologize for calling you a moron.
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score potatos :D
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I was just bustin' yer balls Urchin, yer alright. <S> :)
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DOn't care about kill steals, rarely see it, and if i've done it, its been accidental. One way or another just killem all..
SKurj
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I agree with Pepe. My thoughts are that this is just a game and you know how well you are doing no matter what the kill-count or score states. But even if a kill score is important to you, this "kill stealing" aspect is not restricted to one country and so I'm sure it levels the scores out for comparison purposes in the long run.
The thing I'm confused about is it almost sounds like some messages in this thread are saying that it's the final shots that get the kill, though I may be mistaken. Anyway, I disagree. I'm strictly a boomer/zoomer (if I turn more than 360deg, I'm gonna lose) and there are many times I damage an aircraft to fly off to escape a superior aircraft to be awarded a kill a minute or two or three later. So, if someone snakes in to destroy an enemy aircraft and he gets the credit, maybe you didn't damage that aircraft as much as you thought.
Just enjoy, it's only a game. I don't mind if a newbie enjoys spiraling to the deck after an aircraft I sent mortally wounded. It keeps him coming back and I know I did a good job.
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
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How do I know if "you are working the Con" or "the Con is working you?" In six year of online gaming I've never hear anyone explain this.
If I 'save' you your going to say I stole 'your' kill and if I leave you you'll say I didn't make a 'six call'
Basicly, I follow this rule. I'll NEVER shot over your shoulder. But, if 'your' con ends up in my gunsight he's 'my' con till he leaves.
Hell.., I'd give you the kill if I could.
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I've said it b4, and Im saying it again. I dont care who shoots at a live enemy, I do prefer not to have people jump on someone Ive got saddled up good, but so long as you try not to fly into my line of fire, its no big deal. Id rather get an assist, than a XXXXX shot you down.
Shooting a dead plane is unforgivable however, and its always obvious when a plane is missing important parts....ya know, like wings. Just politely as/remind the offending player that you would prefer it if he didnt shoot a planes you had taken out already, and move on. 95% of the time, the player realizes they made a mistake, the other 5% can fend for themselves when they are in trouble.
Be polite, be patient and be friendly...you'll usually end up a much happier player :D
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How would you guys feel about getting 1/2 kills?
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I'd hate getting half kills.
There ain't such a thing as a half kill.
Sort of like being half dead, or half pregnant.
Of course, I'm LW. The allied pigdogs seem to think one can be half dead or half pregnant :).
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Originally posted by majic:
How would you guys feel about getting 1/2 kills?
Not a good idea IMO. Instead, include assist stats in the expanded format score page. Don't change the scoring system, just show who you got assists on and in what a/c...
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As it is now, its the plane that gets the more hits that receives the kill. Its supposed to be the one that does the most damage... yet repetitively we see people getting a snapshot on a passing plane and have someone else 5 minutes after that shoot up the same plane and the 1st guy gets the kill...or a wingless, tailess, burning plane spiraling down only to have someone ping it a lot and get the kill.
IMO, the game should have something to recognize *critical damage* and award the kill to whoever inflicted it. If I shoot off the tail or wing of a fighter with 1 30mm shot and joe blow pings him with 400 .50 cal rounds on his way down... joe blow gets the kill, although I was the one that took that plane outta the fight.
"Hot spots" to determine *critical damage*?
Destruction of:
Wing/Wingtips (either wing)
Tail
Pilot (aka, BOOM, not wounded)
AND disabling of:
Engine
should "tag" the person that did the above damage and wait for the plane to be destroyed (pilot bails out, plane crashes/ditches) before awarding the kill. That way a plane without a wing that is on its way down or is somehow managing to LAND the thing (aka, wingtip blown out) is recognized as a victory to the one that did it, not to the overeager scummer that goes after the plane to snatch an easy kill to his credit by shooting down a plane that already was out of the fight!.
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Originally posted by Tac:
As it is now, its the plane that gets the more hits that receives the kill.
Are you sure that's accurate? If so, planes equipped with .303s would actually be best to take into furballs or on vulch runs with multiple friendlies around. In vulching especially, a plane like the Spit V with four .303s will almost certainly land more hits than just about anybody else (owing to the very high rate of fire for these guns) while doing a minimum of damage. If the number of hits alone counts for the kill, Spit Vs should be vulching machines.
Obviously you're mistaken, as I can say from experience that this just isn't the case. Take a Spit V or IX equipped with .303s into battle sometime and fill your opponent full of hundreds of rounds of rifle-caliber bullets. Then watch your 109G-10 wingman come in and blast the unfortunate target with one well-placed shot from a 30mm cannon.
Guess who gets the kill? I'd bet the house your wingman does despite only having hit with one round.
-- Todd/DMF
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I still say only award a 'kill' if only one person gets hits on a plane. If more than one person hits the plane, everyone that does gets an 'assist'.
:D
anRky
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Kill stealing is'nt a problem, the annoyng problem is the killshooter as it works now.
Opoen fire and boom!!
Someone is in myu line of fire (usually under the nose).
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30mm & they go BOUM, just like Westy said :D
Maybe we could have a "Duel mode" (a friend of mine is a everquest freak, and he explained me that if you'r pi$$ed at someone, you can challenge him to a duel, both sides have to accept...)
Have a DUEL CALL command, if both accept, Killshooter is OFF for both of them (but only for both of them.)
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Hehehee, I'm just wondering....
Friendly on con's 6....you close friendly's 6....press the duel button...popup window on friendly's FE, just over the gunsite...
The really funny stuff is when he, red with anger about losing sight on his target, presses OK to duel, and you blow him immediately :D .....maybe I quit Rookland for some time if this is ever implemented ;)
Cheers,
Pepe
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Steven, a good example of this happened yesterday.
Was up in my La7, dove in on a b17 who had recently rolled. Slide in, chop throttle, open fire at 350, by 250 his wing is in 4 pieces and he's falling. As I pull up I see 3 friendly's scream past me shooting at the buff. None of them were on the b17 when I dove in. One of them got the kill yet on my end I clearly was the one that blew his wing off.
Not a big deal, but it's irritating when it happens consistantly.
Guys who do it to me more than once go on my short list of friendly's who do NOT get 6 calls. Do Not get helped if they get in a jam. And I will steal kills from them if the opportunity arises.
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Huh? why? Does this mean we can't hit anyone
on landing? Didn't they do this in RL?
It sure happened in RL,but this is a game.
And when you try to land,not at an airfield,
you are no longer a treat to the guy,so why use your ammo.And I personally find it more satisfying,to let him land/ditch(IF HE FOUGHT WELL)
In CT frenchy and I had a dogfight for 35 min,when I ran out of fuel,he couldt have downed me,,,,,,,but didnt,,,,,,,,he let me ditch,cause he respected my flying,,,,,,I guess,he knew the kodeks.
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LOL :)
Not this again!
Guys, the MA is mayhem. You have to expect anything will happen.
If you want to duel "Mono E Mono" or such crap go to the dueling arena.
Complaining only lessens the experience for all.
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Sure ya do.
CRASH
Originally posted by Dawvgrid:
Yesterday I tangled with a P51 when i ran outta fuel.After burning all my E,I went in for landing/ditching,,,,,,,,,he made several passess spraying all over,I evaded (hard to do without fuel,at low alt,with gear out, and he finally got me,,,,,,,,,,,,this is the same issue "lack of situationawareness" imo,
"You dont shot at a guy with his gear out"
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Originally posted by StSanta:
I'd hate getting half kills.
There ain't such a thing as a half kill.
Sort of like being half dead, or half pregnant.
Of course, I'm LW. The allied pigdogs seem to think one can be half dead or half pregnant :).
LOL :)
Only an accommplished LW as your self would even think of getting a woman half pregnant.
But alas...
My policy is "Practice Practice Pratice"!
:D
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Turn off killshooter and use a png status jobber like AW did. 3 Freindly kills and ur done. Will put an end to that nonsense right quick. It's happend to me a bunch of times and pisses me right the hell off. Fight a bandit 1v1 down to the deck from 20k, saddled up 200 off his 6 and some yahoo jumps in front of ur guns to steal the kill because he knows ur fire cant hurt him. Contolling your fire so you dont hit freindlies was a big deal in combat and should be in AH.
CRASH
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soo.. urchin... by your reply and lack of response to my explanation... I would have to surmise that you are both concieted and an idiot. Not sure if an idiot is worse than a moron but in this case it undowbtably is.
The fact remains that no one can tell with 100% certainty 100% of the time who needs help and who doesn't. I believe that I can determine palnes strengths as well as you can or maybe even a triffle better since I've been at it a lot longer but I have no idea how to determine fuel or ammo or damage states with certainty.
to recap... I appreciate any help and like fatty, I don't care who kills the red guy... just kill him.. I am a little miffed when a cannon potato pumps a bunch of rounds into a wingless plumeting to earth con of mine. If there is anything moronic about any of this then I am too much of a moron to see it.
lazs