Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Mongoose on May 31, 2017, 10:55:52 PM
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Ok, here is my suggestion for the bomb and bail. It probably won't work because it would be a programming nightmare, but it's fun to think about.
If a bomber formation has at least one undamaged bomber, the pilot may not bail for five minutes after dropping his bombs. If the pilot bails within that five minutes, and there is an undamaged bomber in the formation, then all damage from the bombs that were dropped is removed.
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They will just auger. If damage is needed, just snap the wings.
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Just award a proxy within dot range to the closest interceptor.
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How about everyone that up a plane is awarded 3 kills if a set of bombers are within 10 sectors, then noone have to be sad.
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How about everyone that up a plane is awarded 3 kills if a set of bombers are within 10 sectors, then noone have to be sad.
I'd be all for the guy that bailed gives a proxy to the closest enemy regardless of distance. It's stupid, but so is throwing yourself from a perfectly good plane over enemy territory.
Wiley.
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Perk bomber formations........ :bolt:
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Perk bomber formations........ :bolt:
You may be onto something there...
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Perk bomber formations........ :bolt:
+1
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Perking formations is the closest thing to a solution we will ever have for the bomb and bail problem. Won't ever happen though.
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Perking formations is the closest solution we will ever have to the bomb and bail problem. Won't ever happen though.
Perk + Proxy = Winning
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Perk bomber formations........ :bolt:
and that is the correct answer.
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I will say this again, your tryin to get players to play your way, it's your $15.00 to shoot planes down but it's their $15.00 not to get shot down
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I know HiTech and skuzzy have more important things to do, but I wish one of them would way in here with a coment PLEASE
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text buffer "System pilot xyz cowardly bailed out of a perfectly good Bomber. Damage points will be retracted"
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268 lb this morning.
HiTech
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Only award perks if you return to base?
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268 lb this morning.
HiTech
:rofl
Fatty!
(Just kidding.)
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:rofl
Fatty!
(Just kidding.)
I though he was talking about his latest bowl movement... :rofl
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268 lb this morning.
HiTech
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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text buffer "System pilot xyz cowardly bailed out of a perfectly good Bomber. Damage points will be retracted"
I think that would be pretty funny! Can you imagine the comments on the BBS about it? :D
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Perk bomber formations........ :bolt:
Damn!! That sounds awesome!!!
+1
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text buffer "System pilot xyz cowardly bailed out of a perfectly good Bomber. Damage points will be retracted"
Though funny to many of us...
We're not about shaming people in public. That is bad business...
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Though funny to many of us...
We're not about shaming people in public. That is bad business...
..... and yet, in the old days, that is one of the things that pushed new players to learn to fight better. Calling out the HOers soon taught those players not to HO and to learn better ways to approach a fight. The same could be said about lawndarters and alt monkeys.
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..... and yet, in the old days, that is one of the things that pushed new players to learn to fight better. Calling out the HOers soon taught those players not to HO and to learn better ways to approach a fight. The same could be said about lawndarters and alt monkeys.
Do you really think they care? I don't.
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Do you really think they care? I don't.
Nope, that is another symptom of the new generation on the internet. They can hide behind their computers and play what ever persona they want.
Most of us old timers were brought up better, to always strive to be better, too be accepted and so on. So "shaming worked on us.
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Why would anyone care? 99% of all whining about Ho.ing, picking or whatever is just the sound of a hurt ego..
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268 lb this morning.
HiTech
:rofl down from what lol nice one HiTech
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:rofl down from what lol nice one HiTech
Hitech keeps his New Year's resolution so he makes them attainable--just like I do. "This year I intend to gain weight." :rofl
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MY WISH IS FOR THE PEOPLE TO QUIT ASKING OR TELLING HTC TO PUNISH BOMB AND BAILERS.
sorry for caps button was stuck thank :joystick:you that is all
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I like the idea of perked bombers
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how about you just give triple perks for a successful RTB?
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If bombers bail without damage from enemy projectiles they should get no perks, and proxie kills go to the closest enemy within the grid.
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I like the idea of perked bombers
perked drones.
The first bomber is free, you pay the perks for the other 2 planes. The first loss is free, you get your perks refunded for every bomber more than 1 that lands.
All perked planes are free if you land them :old:
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268 lb this morning.
HiTech
Or how much his keg of single malt scotch currently weighs.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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..... and yet, in the old days, that is one of the things that pushed new players to learn to fight better. Calling out the HOers soon taught those players not to HO and to learn better ways to approach a fight. The same could be said about lawndarters and alt monkeys.
it did/does---- hmmmm I will ho your plane into little tiny pieces, do you think calling/cussing me out on 200 is gonna bother me hehehahahoho
I don't think so.
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oh and I just noticed,, the OP here has made a suggestion and not a WISH.
THIS IS A WISH LIST--SO MAKE A WISH NOT A SUGGESTION
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Bomb and bail much lunatic?
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I have a hypothetical question for those suggesting awarding kills to closest pilot if someone in a bomber bails out of an undamaged bomber. If someone ups from a rear base and decides to bail out in order to defend another base and they are two sectors from the nearest enemy base should a random pilot get kills? Because that's what it sounds like you are implying. And if so the same should happen with fighters. Player A ups with bombs accidentally to go help against a base take attempt. Instead of rtb he just bails to get the correct loadout. Should Player B a full sector away get that kill?
For the record I don't bail out of bombers if an enemy is in range. I actually cut throttle so they can catch up. I like nothing better than landing my damage plus kills.
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nope not at all I don't bail.. but that's up to me--I believe if someone wants to bail that's up to them.
you just so pizzed at the BP"s because they won't let you shoot them down.
it's so funny all these threads and post's about what to do to people who pay play their way and not your way.
whiner's and cry baby's you all are.
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I have a hypothetical question for those suggesting awarding kills to closest pilot if someone in a bomber bails out of an undamaged bomber. If someone ups from a rear base and decides to bail out in order to defend another base and they are two sectors from the nearest enemy base should a random pilot get kills? Because that's what it sounds like you are implying. And if so the same should happen with fighters. Player A ups with bombs accidentally to go help against a base take attempt. Instead of rtb he just bails to get the correct loadout. Should Player B a full sector away get that kill?
For the record I don't bail out of bombers if an enemy is in range. I actually cut throttle so they can catch up. I like nothing better than landing my damage plus kills.
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Sure. Why not? If they take a death/capture, nearest pilot gets the kill.
Wiley.
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nope not at all I don't bail.. but that's up to me--I believe if someone wants to bail that's up to them.
you just so pizzed at the BP"s because they won't let you shoot them down.
it's so funny all these threads and post's about what to do to people who pay play their way and not your way.
whiner's and cry baby's you all are.
If you don't recognize "poor sportsmanship" by now well.............
Because to me that's what this is all about. Yes it's a game, but in every game there is "playing within the rules" and then there is "playing within the rules with good sportsmanship".
As an example:
The rules say "If you kick a guy in the nads and do not get caught there is no penalty"
Sportsmanship says "Don't kick a guy in the nads"
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I have bailed many a bomber just because I got bored. the fighter took 20+ minutes at least to get into position by then I just said I dont have the time. I would rather be somewhere else.
semp
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Sure. Why not? If they take a death/capture, nearest pilot gets the kill.
Wiley.
I can only imagine the butt hurt from the fighter only folks when they bail two sectors from the action and player xyz gets the kill, who is sitting in the bomber hanger with his engine off.....
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perk ordnance, and only award perks for landed kills. (or just give more of a penalty)
force people to play smarter
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force people to play smarter
There is a considerable downside to that...
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I have bailed many a bomber just because I got bored. the fighter took 20+ minutes at least to get into position by then I just said I dont have the time. I would rather be somewhere else.
semp
Fly lower. It is annoying to up, find buffs at 35k, climb all the way up and the guy bails. If you get bored we're also getting bored.
Of course another solution would be making bombing from the stratosphere more difficult.
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Weighty comment!
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Fly lower. It is annoying to up, find buffs at 35k, climb all the way up and the guy bails. If you get bored we're also getting bored.
Of course another solution would be making bombing from the stratosphere more difficult.
ask anybody in my squad, i dont fly higher than 10k on buffs maybe 15. but never above 20 unless in fso.
semp
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If you don't recognize "poor sportsmanship" by now well.............
Because to me that's what this is all about. Yes it's a game, but in every game there is "playing within the rules" and then there is "playing within the rules with good sportsmanship".
As an example:
The rules say "If you kick a guy in the nads and do not get caught there is no penalty"
Sportsmanship says "Don't kick a guy in the nads"
Sooooooo it's Good Sportsmanship for the bomber pilot to sit there and let you kill his bombers, nawwww I don't think so.
never read anything in the rules that said the bomber pilots can't or shouldn't bail when they want to.
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I have an Idea.
DON'T CHASE BOMBERS AND YOU WON'T GET DISAPPOINTED.
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Sooooooo it's Good Sportsmanship for the bomber pilot to sit there and let you kill his bombers, nawwww I don't think so.
I was talking about what is poor sportsmanship sir, again,
if you cannot see it, if you can't feel what is right, or you just disagree what is right, that is understandable and we will differ on this subject.
never read anything in the rules that said the bomber pilots can't or shouldn't bail when they want to.
I wasn't talking about the rules sir, I was talking about sportsmanship
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I agree with you, Zoney regarding the sportsmanship aspect of the game. You have enough Zener pelts (and 91st BG pelts) on your wall to know that's not how we roll. I believe there will always be those who will bail just as with fighters you'll always have that one speedy plane happy to hang around to B&Z those taking off and landing but hauls it outta there with warp engines engaged soon as anything co-alt or higher shows up. I don't know why they do it but they do, and bailing bomber pilots fall into the same category imho.
The only times I can think of when bailing seems right is when the main plane in the formation is so damaged it puts the formation at greater risk from the slower speed/reduced ability to hold course. But that's only bailing from one plane, not all.
I will sometimes bail in a goon if doing resupp to something vital, it's a long flight, and we need it back asap so more runs are needed. I can't remember ever doing that with an enemy plane anywhere close.
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<S> Zener and the 91st, whom add to our wonderful gaming experience.
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Sooooooo it's Good Sportsmanship for the bomber pilot to sit there and let you kill his bombers, nawwww I don't think so.
never read anything in the rules that said the bomber pilots can't or shouldn't bail when they want to.
The bomber pilot knew the risks. He should suffer the consequences for his cowardice if he bails at the sight of opposition. Or he can shoot back. It's not like bombers are helpless like Goons.
Haven't played in over a week precisely because of things like this--and arenas without targets are self-defeating.
:salute
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It just took him a long time to get alt and get there he doesn't want spend the time getting all the way back, its reality, award the kills to those closest if he bails and be done with it
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It just took him a long time to get alt and get there he doesn't want spend the time getting all the way back, its reality, award the kills to those closest if he bails and be done with it
Well put.
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Unfortunately Lunatic's advice to let bombers have free reign is the best bet at the moment, I quit bothering trying to intercept bombers(my favorite thing to do) and even left the game for awhile because more often than not they will bail as soon as they see your dot if they've already hit the primary target.
It is however the wrong answer, bailers should face a penalty, just because you paid $15 doesn't mean you should have so much troll power over the others that paid $15. Play with some sportsmanship, you aren't giving away free kills if you get intercepted, its actually pretty difficult to kill all 3 bombers if you have any sort of skill. Giving proxies to the closest interceptor wont make bomb and bailers quit the game. What's worse is their reasoning is usually so they can up again right away to hit the same target, so in effect they are getting twice the ords on a target because the game allows it to happen. If you are paying $15 to bomb targets, take some pride in your bombing and land the damage.
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I see plenty of guys landing 3 kills along with damage from a high altitude bomb run.
The guys who bail simply lack the skill to deal with an interceptor.
Yes, they are pathetic and by bailing they force their lowest common denominator experience onto the rest of the arena.
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As said before: even the average bomber guy have a good chance of winning a duel with a fighter. And when it comes to the great bomber guys the odds is certainly against the fighter..
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I have another frustration where i completed my bomb run and dont feel like flying back and would bail *except* that someone finally upped to intercept so i decide to wait for him to attack so we can at least duke it out... but rather than crawl up my low 6 he flies smart and grabs another 5k over my buffs and now i have to spend another 10 minutes waiting for him to finally attack!
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I have another frustration where i completed my bomb run and dont feel like flying back and would bail *except* that someone finally upped to intercept so i decide to wait for him to attack so we can at least duke it out... but rather than crawl up my low 6 he flies smart and grabs another 5k over my buffs and now i have to spend another 10 minutes waiting for him to finally attack!
I would be happy to accommodate you by letting you descend 5k before attacking.
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I would be happy to accommodate you by letting you descend 5k before attacking.
What are friends for, am I right? Lol
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I would be happy to accommodate you by letting you descend 5k before attacking.
Zoney thankfully have yet to run into you. And besides you cheat by watching darbars and already be 5k above so i wouldbt have to wait!
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Unfortunately Lunatic's advice to let bombers have free reign is the best bet at the moment, I quit bothering trying to intercept bombers(my favorite thing to do) and even left the game for awhile because more often than not they will bail as soon as they see your dot if they've already hit the primary target.
It is however the wrong answer, bailers should face a penalty, just because you paid $15 doesn't mean you should have so much troll power over the others that paid $15. Play with some sportsmanship, you aren't giving away free kills if you get intercepted, its actually pretty difficult to kill all 3 bombers if you have any sort of skill. Giving proxies to the closest interceptor wont make bomb and bailers quit the game. What's worse is their reasoning is usually so they can up again right away to hit the same target, so in effect they are getting twice the ords on a target because the game allows it to happen. If you are paying $15 to bomb targets, take some pride in your bombing and land the damage.
[/b]
QFT
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I see no reason to spend the time to fly home if its a waste of time. I also see no reason why the closest enemy shouldnt be awarded kills if he is angling for a kill (in which case id stick around to hopefully shoot him down). Landing lots of damage points doesnt really bring me much gaming satisfaction whereas bailing to quickly up some troops to take advantage of a tactical situation is way more fun.
A while back id upped some b25s to unsuccessfully defend a base. After it was captured i was jumped by the fighters and shot down/sent home 3 of them. I briefly considered bringing what was left of my formation back to friendly base but decided to bail out instead once i was out of icon range as i was a flying pile of wreckage only to have one of the opponents whine that i was bail and bombing after he reupped a fresh plane to run me down. Are people gonna complain about that?
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It's simple. If you see this as no better than a console game, or an arcade game, then you bomb and bail. If you understand that this game is built on a real flight simulator, then you fly the plane all the way home.
As people keep reminding us, it's your $15. But will you use your money to play in a way that is respectful to the game and the community, or will you be disrespectful to the game and the community?
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Real flight simulator? How real do you want to go? Should we spend an hour doing preflight checks too? Fly 3 hrs to arrive over Berlin? How about 1 flight per day. Maybe 2? Again i feel like opponents should be awarded kills if you bail but i shouldnt feel like i have to fly back if its boring to do so.
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The problem isn't so much people that are bailing because they didn't account for return flight time in their plans, its the guys that are bailing because they are about to be intercepted. The return flight is so much shorter than the climb out, its laughable that people are claiming they don't have time to land. I personally think its lame to bail even if no one has intercepted you, you are gaming the game to up something else right away after inflicting damage. Increasing proxy range for bombers is an easy fix and will lessen their ability to troll the enemy. Currently they wait until you are just over 2.5k away and bail because they know you will not get anything out of it and they will not receive a death on their records.
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The problem isn't so much people that are bailing because they didn't account for return flight time in their plans, its the guys that are bailing because they are about to be intercepted. The return flight is so much shorter than the climb out, its laughable that people are claiming they don't have time to land. I personally think its lame to bail even if no one has intercepted you, you are gaming the game to up something else right away after inflicting damage. Increasing proxy range for bombers is an easy fix and will lessen their ability to troll the enemy. Currently they wait until you are just over 2.5k away and bail because they know you will not get anything out of it and they will not receive a death on their records.
This.
Hitech really should reexamine this. The frustration meter pegs with this kind of stuff.
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Zoney thankfully have yet to run into you. And besides you cheat by watching darbars and already be 5k above so i wouldbt have to wait!
You'll know Zoney's plane when you see it coming, especially with the sun behind him. He had the airframe shop drill a couple thousand .52 cal holes all over the airframe so .50cal rounds pass right through. Thndregg seems to have some luck with him but that's probably because he uses square bullets in his top turret and tail gun. :D
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I briefly considered bringing what was left of my formation back to friendly base but decided to bail out instead once i was out of icon range as i was a flying pile of wreckage only to have one of the opponents whine that i was bail and bombing after he reupped a fresh plane to run me down. Are people gonna complain about that?
FYI. I personally consider this to be poor sportsmanship. If I've been shot down, or my plane is damaged and I have to re-up or even it I was out of fuel/ammo, when I land, I will not re-up to go chase that same guy down. It just does not feel right to me. But then again I am also the guy that will let your last buff go after killing the first 2 sometimes. I really should do that last thing more often, it just feels so right. Everybody wins, I get a couple of kills, I've gotten a fight and the buff guy at least gets to land one and get his name in lights. BTW I never let the last one go if you are still inbound targets, or if there are other countrymen attacking you because they are not going to let you go either.
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I tracked some buffs up to 20 k a couple of sectors.. intercepted them off dar rings.. hunted em down only to have em pull the plug 3.1k out.. on edge of the map when they where off to strat raid..
JERRYZ you wasted my time..
pissed me off and I felt sad...
sad you did not want to fight.. i normally die to buffs ..so double lame Jerryz..
why not get in your guns and have some fun..ITS WHY WE ARE HERE!!
I bet you ride with the `Berkshire hunt`!!
BERK!!
that is all....
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Sadly, it's not only bombers bailing now. A few days ago there was a P38 diving on a field, so I upped to defend against it. The P38 made 2-3 passes on things on the field and then proceeded to run home. I chased him until he got just outside of 2.5K and he bailed.
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bail because they know you will not get anything out of it and they will not receive a death on their records.
I'm not saying i have all the answers, but:
(http://i.imgur.com/SFQvWJ6.jpg)
and they would have to return to base to get points for a better plane.
Instead of giving penalty to people, I would be rewarding them, with a penalty people could just alt + f4, with a reward they want to return to base and play.
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I'm not saying i have all the answers, but:
(http://i.imgur.com/SFQvWJ6.jpg)
and they would have to return to base to get points for a better plane.
Please use the quote function correctly when quoting other posts so we can figure out which post you are picking from.
There is already a feature in place that prevents you from getting all your earned perks if you do not land.
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I'm not saying i have all the answers, but:
(http://i.imgur.com/SFQvWJ6.jpg)
and they would have to return to base to get points for a better plane.
Instead of giving penalty to people, I would be rewarding them, with a penalty people could just alt + f4, with a reward they want to return to base and play.
Your plan just makes it easy for vets to pick on newbs in toejame planes..bad plan..learning curve tough enough..you would drive off new players in droves
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<Some Deleted>
Again i feel like opponents should be awarded kills if you bail but i shouldnt feel like i have to fly back if its boring to do so.
Right. Because you are playing an arcade game. While I am enjoying a flight simulator game. In a flight simulator game the flight is not over until you land the plane, or get shot down trying.
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There's a spectrum of award / penalty that can be used. Today, I get marginal satisfaction of seeing someone bail if I chase them down. It's good enough to know that I'm either preventing them from reaching a target or preventing them from receiving all the perk pts they would have received if they did get home. Would I prefer a kill? Sure! But I wouldn't be that upset if they did it. However, giving me a kill doesn't change anything for the bailer. It's the wrong incentive.
We need to think about this some more. I think that if we see growing numbers of players again, then we will see more video arcade style of play as these new players will not be steeped in our culture. It would probably be a good idea to think about how we incent people to behave appropriately. The current perk point bias towards landing missions is a start, but we're going to need to evaluate the arcade style point optimization that will be done. For example, when HQ goes down today, I see people resupplying by flying C-47s over, making a drop, then bailing and doing it again. This is because the benefit of rapid resupply outweighs the cost of bailing.
To get around that issue, there would need to be some cost of not returning your plane. Today, we do that with the perk system. To take advantage of that, we would need to ensure that bombing a target (or resupply) and bailing reduces the perk points more than the bonus received (after the deduction for not returning to base) from the mission in the first place. Then if every plane had at least one perk point of cost (except one plane/vehicle of each class which would have 0 perk point cost), then we would have an incentive for people to try to return from their missions.
Unfortunately, that kind of a perk system makes it tough on new people who don't have the skills to last long and earn perks. They would be stuck with a single fighter / attack / bomber / vehicle until they started living long enough to earn perk points. However, this is probably not much different than how War Thunder works with the skill tree. The difference here is that a skill tree is an always positively increasing capability while the perk system has ups and downs depending on how well you are flying at the moment.
If one of each class is too restrictive, then make it once of each country of each class. In the end it becomes a tuning of perk costs / rewards that finds a happy balance (e.g. perk formations but not singles?).
I don't know that this will solve the bailing issue as there would essentially be no penalty if flying a no perk plane, but it might help reduce the frequency and help teach the culture of AH as well.
It would also have an impact on other things as well. Think about base attack / defense. Would you continue to up fighters for field defense of a capped base if you knew that every one that you upped was likely to cost you perk points? It might with the right balance, or it might just teach our culture that it's a better idea to not do that. Would we see an increase in BnZ over furball as furballing would be a higher risk tactic than BnZ and your chance of losing a perk'd furballing aircraft would therefore be higher.
The above can be somewhat mitigated by making the 0 perk planes good furballers. Then noone worries about taking them out and losing them and in the end, it's a personal choice for risk / reward.
There are probably holes in this, but the idea is simple. Use the existing perk system as a means to guide people to fly in an expected manner.
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Right. Because you are playing an arcade game. While I am enjoying a flight simulator game. In a flight simulator game the flight is not over until you land the plane, or get shot down trying.
Is ditching a fighter rather than flying back also poor sportsmanship? If you attack my buffs ill stick around to defend. But if there is more action elsewhere and no atrackers id rather get there quicker by bailing.
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I think the players here are greatly underestimating 'new players' ability to play a game.
This is a game, not rocket science, a flight simmer who players other flight games will pick this one up instantly, a new player who never played a flight sim might have trouble especialy if he does not have a stick, but not because there is an 'insane' learning curve, it would be just because he never played a game of this type, and a player like that would just need to play a game like this for a period of time.
When I started my journey with online flying 20 years ago I got constantly my 6 whooped, but that didn't drove me off, I kept playing and enjoyed the game, no one 'cared' for me that i'm a 'new player'
It's just a part of life that a old vet at first would be killing a 'new player' in a 'worse' plane. But the new player would eventualy get there and he would have a better plane himself, and he wouldn't be a new player anymore.
If someone likes flight sims he would stay and play, if he would quit it just would mean this type of game is not for him and he came just to try it out.
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Ok..come fly a spit 1 for 1 month and see how fun it is..
Good luck
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Ok..come fly a spit 1 for 1 month and see how fun it is..
Good luck
For me it is great fun to fly early war planes, and you wouldn't have to fly THAT long.
I think the early war fights are even more fun than the late war fights, because early war planes are more focuse on dogfight rather than energy fight. Meaning more turning and less running.
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Here's a thought. Enable EW rides at VBases and ports. Maybe they will get flown more.
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How about modifying the downtime of the objects that were destroyed by the bailer (or suicide jabo)?
Let's say I bomb town buildings, and the normal downtime would be 30 minutes. If I die/bail within 10 minutes, the building downtime is reduced to 10 minutes. If I survive beyond 10 minutes, or safely land, there would be no reduction of the downtime.
This would limit the effectiveness of the bomb-and-bail (or suicide jabo) tactic, providing an incentive to survive and land without restricting plane choice or penalizing new players. It would also make defending a field more effective than running supplies, since killing the attacker within 10 minutes would be as good as running two resupply sorties. And it would add a bit of "realism": survival = good, death = bad.
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How about modifying the downtime of the objects that were destroyed by the bailer (or suicide jabo)?
Let's say I bomb town buildings, and the normal downtime would be 30 minutes. If I die/bail within 10 minutes, the building downtime is reduced to 10 minutes. If I survive beyond 10 minutes, or safely land, there would be no reduction of the downtime.
This would limit the effectiveness of the bomb-and-bail (or suicide jabo) tactic, providing an incentive to survive and land without restricting plane choice or penalizing new players. It would also make defending a field more effective than running supplies, since killing the attacker within 10 minutes would be as good as running two resupply sorties. And it would add a bit of "realism": survival = good, death = bad.
That's not particularly fair to the bomber pilot that gets jumped over target. He shouldn't be penalized for getting his bombs off on target and then getting killed by another player within ten minutes of his drop. Killing the attacker before he drops is also as good as running 2 resupply sorties, which is how it should be IMO.
Wiley.
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Is ditching a fighter rather than flying back also poor sportsmanship?
Yes. The flight is not over until you land the plane, or get shot down trying. Otherwise you might as well be sitting in front of your Xbox.
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Sadly there is precedent for the Bomb and Bail, it was called the Doolittle raid. DO I like bomb and bailers HECK NO, may they all rot in the nether regions.
On the other hand I sure respect the sheer cussiness of the SOB that would game the system like that, the loosy %%$ &*^% and %%$#!!! and furthermore may they $$##$ themselves and ALL their offspring as well.
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Sadly there is precedent for the Bomb and Bail, it was called the Doolittle raid. DO I like bomb and bailers HECK NO, may they all rot in the nether regions.
On the other hand I sure respect the sheer cussiness of the SOB that would game the system like that, the loosy %%$ &*^% and %%$#!!! and furthermore may they $$##$ themselves and ALL their offspring as well.
No Doolittle Raider bailed while being intercepted. Also, this was an extreme case. The plan was to land. Circumstances intervened.
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Point taken, the Doolittle raid was different from the bomb and bailer in AH who has plenty of fuel left.
Should we do something about it? Maybe, but is it really that big of a pain that Hi Tech should write code for it? Code that will assuredly upset the guys who are doing it?
I'm more for allowing ppl to play how they want, to give them MORE flexibility, rather than restricting playability trying to get ppl to play how a few crotchety old timers want them to play.
Even if I am one of those crotchety guys who hate the tactic.
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Point taken, the Doolittle raid was different from the bomb and bailer in AH who has plenty of fuel left.
Should we do something about it? Maybe, but is it really that big of a pain that Hi Tech should write code for it? Code that will assuredly upset the guys who are doing it?
I'm more for allowing ppl to play how they want, to give them MORE flexibility, rather than restricting playability trying to get ppl to play how a few crotchety old timers want them to play.
Even if I am one of those crotchety guys who hate the tactic.
Let them play how they want. But stop allowing them to grief me after I've wasted half an hour chasing them down.
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Agreed, chasing them for 30 min just to watch them bail is hugely aggravating. Back in the day it was no big deal because you had 4 more guys charging in and most do not bomb and bail.
Now it is a problem. IDK the solution, my original comment was to just poke a little fun at the whole issue, I know I'm not going to feel its a problem unless everyone bombs and bails, which it would seem like everyone does, if one rook does it when there is only 4 rooks on of a morning.
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any kind of punishment to a bomb and bailer, will probably drive that player away,
you are all trying to get people to play the game your way, and that is not right.
besides the idea of going after bombers in the 1st place is to intercept them before they drop, chasing them after they drop is just for fighter kills and perks, the bomber pilot has no responsibility to just sit there and let you try to shoot him down, after he or she drops his/her bombs, his/her job is over with. because they get their points if they land or not. yes they as you pay to play, but no one has to play the game the way you all want them to.
this thread should be locked because nothing is being accomplished here just a bunch of crying. :bolt:
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I think you'll find that the Luftwaffe harassed the buffs both inbound and outbound. You don't let the enemy go just because they dropped their bombs already.
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Except in ah shooting the bombers dowb rtb allows him to up a new set earlier than having him fly back. The smart thing would be to let him go ans waste his time while he is harmless
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I think you'll find that the Luftwaffe harassed the buffs both inbound and outbound. You don't let the enemy go just because they dropped their bombs already.
No, but thats because if they shot down an homebound bomber it would not return the day after, unlike the game where the supplies of fresh bombers are unlimited.
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any kind of punishment to a bomb and bailer, will probably drive that player away,
you are all trying to get people to play the game your way, and that is not right.
besides the idea of going after bombers in the 1st place is to intercept them before they drop, chasing them after they drop is just for fighter kills and perks, the bomber pilot has no responsibility to just sit there and let you try to shoot him down, after he or she drops his/her bombs, his/her job is over with. because they get their points if they land or not. yes they as you pay to play, but no one has to play the game the way you all want them to.
this thread should be locked because nothing is being accomplished here just a bunch of crying. :bolt:
I think you are the only one defending them. We arent asking for their ability to bail be removed, just to reward the interceptor if they choose to bail because they were intercepted. If that drives away the player, so be it, they were cancerous anyway.
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I think you are the only one defending them. We arent asking for their ability to bail be removed, just to reward the interceptor if they choose to bail because they were intercepted. If that drives away the player, so be it, they were cancerous anyway.
Not completely true. Some people went so far as to argue that bomber pilots should have to fly back to their base even if nobody was attacking them.
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I think you are the only one defending them. We arent asking for their ability to bail be removed, just to reward the interceptor if they choose to bail because they were intercepted. If that drives away the player, so be it, they were cancerous anyway.
Root Problem vs Perceived Problem here.....
Perceived Problem: Bomber pilots bailing out of good airframes.
Root Problem: I'm investing my time to hunt them down and they negate MY time by bailing out.
Solution #1 = Stop expecting others in a sandbox to play "your" way. IT JUST WON'T HAPPEN.
Solution #2 = Punish BnB'er via perk point drain (call it a parachute tax :D).
Solution #3 = Make the egregious BnB'er visible to all countries if they up the same load-out immediately after bailing from clean aircraft with no ords left. :devil
I dunno, seems this game is all about "P8ssing in the other guys corn flakes". :cool:
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any kind of punishment to a bomb and bailer, will probably drive that player away,
you are all trying to get people to play the game your way, and that is not right.
besides the idea of going after bombers in the 1st place is to intercept them before they drop, chasing them after they drop is just for fighter kills and perks, the bomber pilot has no responsibility to just sit there and let you try to shoot him down, after he or she drops his/her bombs, his/her job is over with. because they get their points if they land or not. yes they as you pay to play, but no one has to play the game the way you all want them to.
this thread should be locked because nothing is being accomplished here just a bunch of crying. :bolt:
Spot on!
If you like chasing bombers, you should be looking for darbar headed toward strats. Get them before they drop their ord. If you assume a bomber will fly all the way back, that is on the chase plane pilot. Not the BnB pilot.
Heck, sometimes I think it is funny to take a nice fighter up to a strat posing as a bomber, just to get a fight. I've seen some run or bail because they weren't chasing bombers... LOL
Either way. Spend less time worrying about what some bomber types are doing and focus on your game play. Want to get the bombers? Intercept them enroute. Not on egress. Two sides to the coin. I've been chased across the map in my B29s before only to get friendlies to up and cover my landing as the vulch light was lit and I knew it.
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Here are a few tips for bomber interception.
Be patient
Watch your map and anticipate where they will be going
Choose an appropriate aircraft for intercepting.
Climb very high and wait for them to arrive (30k)
Attack from the high 1:00 or high 11:00
On your first pass, ping all 3 aircraft in the formation (just in case they bail)
Kill them all before they drop
If at any time they bail, you win
If they have dropped and are RTB, kill 2 and let the last one go (to encourage their return)
If you are damaged and must be replane before killing them, never take off in a fresh aircraft and chase them again (it's my idea of good sportsmanship)
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Here are a few tips for bomber interception.
Be patient
Watch your map and anticipate where they will be going
Choose an appropriate aircraft for intercepting.
Climb very high and wait for them to arrive (30k)
Attack from the high 1:00 or high 11:00
On your first pass, ping all 3 aircraft in the formation (just in case they bail)
Kill them all before they drop
If at any time they bail, you win
If they have dropped and are RTB, kill 2 and let the last one go (to encourage their return)
If you are damaged and must be replane before killing them, never take off in a fresh aircraft and chase them again (it's my idea of good sportsmanship)
Bomber gunner countermeasure: Accurate shooting. Wound the pilot. :D
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Not completely true. Some people went so far as to argue that bomber pilots should have to fly back to their base even if nobody was attacking them.
They should fly back if nothing is wrong with them, with the toejam map designs we have it is often hard to notice that a dar bar is headed for your strat since they are all on the front lines. Sure its pretty easy to intercept them over target, but if they are over 20k they are likely dropping their bombs and bailing right away. There should be some incentive to land, and not just 25% more perks. If you are bailing over enemy territory your mission has failed and you should not be rewarded for it. I wouldnt go so far as to force them to return, but in the current state of the game intercepting is pointless and extremely frustrating to the point I play other games because of it.
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And what if they bail before getting to the strays as you intercept..lame bellybutton it gets.
Time wasters mo fos
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I don't intercept bombers very much in a fighter. I can do it, but I still suck at it. But in those extremely rare situations, I have also witnessed this behavior very recently.. twice in one log-in session (maybe two hours). It just smacks of "I'm taking my ball and going home- anonymously" poor sportsmanship. I tend to agree this should adversely affect their perk point bank in some fashion should they choose to do this. Not sure what could be done for those extreme newbies that have no perks in the bank to begin with. :headscratch:
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Bomber gunner countermeasure: Accurate shooting. Wound the pilot. :D
Exactly. It only takes one, why give up that chance just to bail.
There is virtually no approach that let's me get hits when the bombers cannot.
ThndrEGG lately seems to have my pilot wound number. I'm very upset.
Engage cloaking device
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If the guy bails and you're within icon range you should get proxies.
That puts a condition on each pilot.
Fighter - get in and stay in range before bail.
Bomber - if you bail when a fighter is in icon range its because you're a massive girl and the fear of combat is too much for you.
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Or you're out of ammo/guns. :(
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how bout this.
You bomb, you bail with no damage to you aircraft = ground damage sticks with very reduced downtime you get no bomber score no perks and does not show as a successful sortie. simply just another death as if you augered on take off.
but, if you have taken damage and forced to bail then score/kills/perks stick.
should be the same for fighters too.
and double bomber perks for the guys who fly in the goons! with credit for a base capture noted in their score. (these guys are team players and deserve to be recognized)
just a thought.
Petey 56th
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Or you're out of ammo/guns. :(
There's always ramming!! :)
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HiTech's post about his suggested change years ago:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,71494.msg673964.html#msg673964
Looks to be more addressing suicide bombers, I don't think it would help at all for bailers out of proxy range.
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It would be far easier to perk bombs and leave it at that. Would eliminate any issues about bomb-n-bail forever.
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It would be far easier to perk bombs and leave it at that. Would eliminate any issues about bomb-n-bail forever.
So you have to gun targets down in a bomber to afford your first bombs? Perking drones was another idea tossed around, but that also penalizes new players. The least intrusive (and easiest to code) would be to count a bail with enemies around as a "shot down".
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People bomb and bail in JUGS, P-51's, Corsairs, and P-38's - not just bombers. Last night I was chasing a P-51 who went after ordinance at our field - and he immediately lawndarted after dropping his bombs. If his bombs were perked, I'd think he would think twice before ditching.
So you have to gun targets down in a bomber to afford your first bombs? Perking drones was another idea tossed around, but that also penalizes new players. The least intrusive (and easiest to code) would be to count a bail with enemies around as a "shot down".
To resolve that issue - just merge all perk points into one.
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Perking ordnance is a bad idea, it only hurts new players and it would discourage jettison ords when you are in trouble. You are talking about suicide bombers, HiTech's fix for that would work. In the case of suiciders you still get a kill as you are typically within 2.5k. I think the proxy range should be increased though.
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Perking bomber drones for a very low value does not penalize new players. The lead is free and just one successful drop will allow taking drones again. We played this game for many years before drones were introduced. They are not a requirement.
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im ok with drone perks
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Another popular ww2 aviation game has a mechanic where you need to hold a key for a duration to bail out, and can only do so if your plane has suffered massive damage.
I dont see a problem adapting this to AH3. Fighters rarely bail out meaningfully and bombers abuse the bail mechanic to waste peoples time.
Thoughts? This may be extra work for HTC but it could solve the problem.
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Another popular ww2 aviation game has a mechanic where you need to hold a key for a duration to bail out, and can only do so if your plane has suffered massive damage.
I dont see a problem adapting this to AH3. Fighters rarely bail out meaningfully and bombers abuse the bail mechanic to waste peoples time.
Thoughts? This may be extra work for HTC but it could solve the problem.
So they point the nose down until they meet Earth Mother's warm embrace instead.
Wiley.
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So they point the nose down until they meet Earth Mother's warm embrace instead.
Wiley.
Normally a fighter can dive faster than a bomber, it'd still give the interceptor a chance to engage...
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Normally a fighter can dive faster than a bomber, it'd still give the interceptor a chance to engage...
Maybe but I can rip a bombers wings off and crash it pretty easily if I am of a mind to.
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If you want to make sure buff drivers don't bomb and bail give us a real incentive to spend 10-20 minutes flying home. Frankly, perkies don't matter - I have more bomber perkies than I could possibly ever use.
I don't bomb and bail because the defenders are trying to kill me AFTER I have already dropped my bombs. If I bail, it is because I have something better to do with the game time than drive the buffs home for some worthless perkies or to get my name in lights. If I am bombing a target I have a purpose in mind, and usually the purpose is better served by my getting the next box of bombers up and on their way to target - especially because downtimes are quite short on the things I am trying to bomb flat / keep down. If my purpose in bombing your base is to keep your VH down, I have to put a box of bombers over that target every 15 minutes - I simply do not have the time to fly home as I have 10 minutes of climb out, and 5 minutes of bomb run to do to keep that target down. Otherwise all the good work our side is doing is simply erased by a wave of resupply.
Strat targets are a different story (sometimes) - in that scenario I am attempting to fly a more "historical" mission so I can afford the luxury of seeing if I can get the buffs home after the raid.
If you want buff kills, come get me as I am on my way TO the target. I'm more than happy to gun it out with you then.
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Yep. In all honesty, there is no real incentive to fly back to base after dropping ords. You get a few more perks, yes, but bailing and reupping a fresh set after dropping cuts down on the time requirement by a LOT. Overall, you'll make more perks doing that than taking out and bringing back every time. I believe Snail did a chart about this. :headscratch:
One change: You could charge a perk price to take a bomber and/or set of bombers, and completely refund that price should they bring at least one home. If you don't make it for any reason, you lose the perks. If you are intercepted and you manage to shoot down a one or two fighters after your run, but are shot down yourself, that alone should net you a gain in perks. Of course this means you would need to shoot down more fighters if you are to have a perk gain, but didn't make it to target before being brought down. You didn't drop ords on target after all. :) This could also mean that bombers will start flying around in groups more, since a lone set is easy pickings against several interceptors.
FYI: I didn't bail after bombing (still won't). I've always tried to get my bombers home, but I do see the reason behind why it is done.
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I never get my bombers home. I don't have the patience to climb out and learn level bombing from the scope. So when I get a hairy feather up my kester and PO'd about destroying a port or a town I want down. I drive a box of lancs with 1000lbers in them at 5k to the target and dive carpet it. Then fly around shooting at fighters while crashing and burning. Then rinse and repeat until I wipe out the target or get bored handing out free kills. The best one was when I HO'd a 262 with my nose turret and got a magic BB into his cockpit.
I'm glad I only do this a few times a year.... :O
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Heard some new/returning players complaining on vox about some guys bombing and bailing today... WBs gave Icon Range proxies. Seems fair to me.
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Several folks have alluded to the reason for having this topic, (and at least one called it out in clear text) but let me ask in simple English ...
WHY do you care if someone "bombs and bails"?
- Betting the answer is very simple ... you want 3 easy kills, and get miffed when you don't get them.
- If the answer is ANYTHING else, then simply don't go after the buffs and find a fighter to tangle with instead.
- BTW (other than giggling because he shot down your fighter) the buff driver has ZERO incentive to want to drive around waiting for you to catch up to him...he gets NO Points for shooting you down. SO, if you want the buff drivers to lessen the 'Bomb and Bail' phenomenon, why not petition HiTech to give Kill credit to the Buffs?
Try using a carrot rather than an orange stick!
- Rodent57
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WHY do you care if someone "bombs and bails"?
- Betting the answer is very simple ... you want 3 easy kills, and get miffed when you don't get them. This answer is as simple as it is wrong.
[...]he gets NO Points for shooting you down. [...] SO, if you want the buff drivers to lessen the 'Bomb and Bail' phenomenon, why not petition HiTech to give Kill credit to the Buffs?
I get perk points, kills stats and my name in lights when I shoot a fighter down. Landing your kills in a bomber get's you much more acclaim than an abstract damage number.
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Lusche my old adversary and friend,
I'm not buying it.
There is absolutely NO reason to care if someone bombs and bails ... none.
Landing kills in a Buff is just as rewarding as landing kills in a Manned Ack ...
<S>
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There is absolutely NO reason to care if someone bombs and bails ... none.
It's a combat game. Hunting bombers is as part of the game as is bombing objects. The fighter lifts and triest to chase down the bomber, which can take considerable time. And when the enmy bails once (and because of) the fighter poses a threat, that's basically giving him the finger. For the fighter it IS frustrating, and that's a very different kind of frustration than being shot down by the bomber. Especially during non peak time, were often the only enemy showing up ARE bombers and GV. A good intercept on that sole high alt bomber can easily take all of your available game time for that session.
Imagine it would be the same in fighter combat, players bailing just to **** you off before you actually engage. (Just happens less because of the different impact of the proxy range).
Landing kills in a Buff is just as rewarding as landing kills in a Manned Ack ...
You could say the very same for landed fighter kills.