Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Dantoo on June 11, 2017, 03:35:20 PM
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H/W the bulk of an email that I sent directly to the CIC Allied for frame 2.
I didn’t start anything and apparently I can’t get anything done about it.
You were included in an abusive mail chain from the start, by the originator,
You haven’t received all the mail; Some abuse has been sent privately.
I’m surprised that I have publicly received zero support through this chain of abuse from so much as a single FSO player or a CM.
I’m astonished, as much as hurt, that the whole community can be bullied and an individual of the community can be abused by open selfish interests and not so much as a word of support does flow.
Until such time as this is resolved clearly and fairly, you may leave 9GIAP out of your orders as I will suspend our involvement in FSO.
Clearly our turn at CIC doesn’t have the support of the community and unless we are able to fulfil that duty with support, then we have no choice but to suspend our involvement.
Dantoo
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Dantoo
G3-MF is on Axis this month, I have no idea what is going on with Allied side, or the e-mail you speak of. However after what I personally dealt from some folks a couple months back about how a few things went down when I Cic'd I can somewhat understand your side of the issue after reading your post.
It's an absolute shame this crap is going on in FSO, and what's worse is you are at a point you feel you have to pull your squad, I hope the issue get resolved quickly, and you will return.
If there is anything G3 can do for you or your squad in any way, do not hesitate to contact us.
:salute
Jdog
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Good job pissing off a great squad, whoever it was.
Sorry you're having to put up with this Dantoo.
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Dantoo,
I echo our OPS-O's sentiment ... (even if I am the bad guys to you this month).
YOU, and your squad have been stalwart and dependable teammates for years.
If there is anything G3-MF can do to help you out, ask it!
...
PS I'm about 1 step behind you in having had enough of the whining goombahs (Whomever they are).
- Rodent57
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H/W the bulk of an email that I sent directly to the CIC Allied for frame 2.
I didn’t start anything and apparently I can’t get anything done about it.
You were included in an abusive mail chain from the start, by the originator,
You haven’t received all the mail; Some abuse has been sent privately.
I’m surprised that I have publicly received zero support through this chain of abuse from so much as a single FSO player or a CM.
I’m astonished, as much as hurt, that the whole community can be bullied and an individual of the community can be abused by open selfish interests and not so much as a word of support does flow.
Until such time as this is resolved clearly and fairly, you may leave 9GIAP out of your orders as I will suspend our involvement in FSO.
Clearly our turn at CIC doesn’t have the support of the community and unless we are able to fulfil that duty with support, then we have no choice but to suspend our involvement.
Dantoo
I have no access to these emails but if this is true then this is intolerable. I hope this is resolved quickly for you and your groups sake Dantoo.
:salute
Way
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This is most unfortunate, Dantoo.
Must be a major case of butthurt to go after you, when most of us know that you have probably the best strategic mind in the game. If they got waxed, it was either bad luck or their own fault.
LTG has your back. :salute
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Dantoo I have no idea what happened either. But losing you and your squad from FSO is a loss for all of us. :salute
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There are always two sides to a story and somewhere in the middle the truth. When you sling mud sometimes you get splashed.
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Dantoo did you assign someone the wrong plane? :uhoh
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I witnessed the email exchange and didn't get involved as as I'm no longer an FSO CM and felt that warhawks initial explanation to all the parties involved covered the issue.
The fact that it carried on to name calling is upsetting and that it is costing us one of FSOs longest serving squads is beyond stupid.
Sorry it came to this, especially when It didn't have to.
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What Nef said.
and whoever did this, please fix it. We all like playing together.
The fact that it carried on to name calling is upsetting and that it is costing us one of FSOs longest serving squads is beyond stupid.
Sorry it came to this, especially when It didn't have to.
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I witnessed the email exchange and didn't get involved as as I'm no longer an FSO CM and felt that warhawks initial explanation to all the parties involved covered the topic.
As an FSO CM and the setup . . . I did not see the emails. But, there is not a lot we can do about private emails. Send them to us and we can kick them up the chain.
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I've seen the emails. It's simply a squad crying because they didn't get their ride. If we all cried like little children every time that happened, FSO would come to an abrupt end. There's no reason you should give the cries any sort of attention. They should consider themselves lucky I'm not the CIC next week after that juvenile outburst. They should apologize IMO.
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I've seen the emails. It's simply a squad crying because they didn't get their ride. If we all cried like little children every time that happened, FSO would come to an abrupt end. There's no reason you should give the cries any sort of attention. They should consider themselves lucky I'm not the CIC next week after that juvenile outburst. They should apologize IMO.
Um if this is the same damn squad that did this last month then I am appalled. That would be two months running. We had a group who felt entitled to their historical ride for the entire three week run on the Allies last month. After having that their ride for two weeks, they got assigned to a different plane and complained.
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I've seen the emails. It's simply a squad crying because they didn't get their ride.
Really?!
It's frame 1. Did they expect to get their ride every frame? Hell, Vf-17 did not get Corsairs in all three frames last month and that was their historical ride and setting.
I hope the CiC's make sure these tools miss their ride the next two frames as well.
Or ship them to Axis and we'll stuff 'em in Ju88's. :devil
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Yep it's all about entitlement to a ride. It's not VF17.
I am happy to send a copy of the emails that were sent public by the original poster of same. It was clear from the start that the email was purposed to intimidate not only me, but future CICs into rolling over and acceding to the demand and the ride-preference column now becomes the agenda.
When I signed up to FSO the rules were quite different. They were far more open. They have changed many times over the years.
One of the current requirements is that squads take turns at being CIC for their assigned side.
I am unable to accept that responsibility if there is going to be new interpretation that you may demand a particular ride, or a particular side and if not granted then you can open fire and abuse and threaten until you get what you want.
This week it was about P-38s. I assigned them (and an important but tough role) to the 68th Ligntning Lancers. The 68th always welcome a thankless task with humour and they also happen to be a P-38 squad. They used them well.
The concept that any squad can demand a particular ride is an anathema to me. That they feel an entitlement after nominating a preference is beyond me. That they self-righteously bully the community until they get their way is too much for me.
I won't be part of that.
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This whole episode is under review please do not turn this into a witch hunt. Let us have time to review this.
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I believe it became more about the lack of maturity on both sides. Name calling, whining about rides, quitting FSO cause no one jumped in to support my "putting the bully" in his place. That email trail should have died after the whine about the rides. This thread should have never been started.
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Yup. Same damn squad as last month. Grow the hell up guys. This is two FSO Tours in a row now that you have mangaged to piss off every one around you. Well done. :aok
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I'm amazed that wasn't being dealt with privately. No excuse for that. I'll never understand this whole dedicated axis/allied/certain ride crap. You can do that to your heart's content in the MA. In FSO you fly the mission assigned. That's how it works. Dantoo has always gotten that. His standard preference is "just glad to help". Something wrong with that I guess? If it's some major heart attack because you HAD TO fly axis or vice versa then I submit you have got to have about 17 screws loose.
I fly a P-38 like 99.9% of the time in the MA. If I get to fly one in FSO that's great. If I don't I somehow find a way to pick up the shattered pieces of my life and move on. It's happened more than once I think!
<smh>
Dantoo
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
>
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This cannot be allowed, to cry and whine cause you don't get what you want, then resort to e-mail and name calling. Well there is no "2 sides" to that period. Dantoo, you know I have your back period. I'd have anyones back for that matter in this type of case. Who ever you are, (I really don't need to know who) grow the hell up!!! Even though were a dedicated axis squad (German) we don't get our preferred ride but we don't cry about it we do what is asked of us, end of story!!!!
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Dantoo we have your back sir :salute
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I believe it became more about the lack of maturity on both sides. Name calling, whining about rides, quitting FSO cause no one jumped in to support my "putting the bully" in his place. That email trail should have died after the whine about the rides. This thread should have never been started.
I'd go all-in, that you were affected by what transpired. How close am I?
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WOW,
With the numbers so low here and you have to put up with this childish crap?
Sorry Dantoo. You know we support you and your squad.
I sure hope this gets worked out and someone mans up and admits a wrong apologizes and we can all move on.
From a dedicated AXIS squad, I can tell you that we fly what ever we are given and do the best we can to accomplish the mission. Sure, we may squeak about it over VOX to ourselves, but we still do what we can.
I admit, I do complain about PTO set ups, cuz well, they SUCK, but I still show up and fly that ZERO into a fiery death.
This is a game that is supposed to take you away from that crappy drama of real life for a few hours a week, unless you are in a ZERO then it is like 30 minutes, but hey.
Lighten up and enjoy the ride........ even when you are on fire, appreciate the time it took to right the code to make that crackling sound as you burn.
Have Fun
Ditto
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Posting of emails are strictly forbidden.
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Well if you want an external / detached opinion, looks like a misunderstanding over the term preference which could have been handled without escalating into insulting and condescending implications of pretentiousness.
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No emails allowed posting.
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Yup it's a 475th repeat. This happened in May, after they got to fly 38's for two weeks straight. Pull your heads out Dawger and crew.
I had originally posted Dawger's round 1 I want and deserve a P-38 whining email from May , but thought what does it serve? Several CO's saw it and several of us told him to get over himself. I am surprised that other CO's did not jump in to the conversation again this month. If he does not like it here, I suggest he takes his girls and takes a hike. The CM's need to curb this behavior now. If they do not then it is being encouraged.
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Dawger, perhaps you don't understand how FSO works? For the record, my crew feels the same about 47s as you do 38s. I'm telling you from experience that you need to lower your expectations. You should consider yourself lucky if you get your ride once per month. Hell, half the time I think I'm doing well to get the SIDE I want. Your email came across as petty and childish and I think you owe Dantoo an apology.
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It would have been very easy to contact Dantoo and 9GIAP and the 68th Lighting Lancers using the email list and respectfully request to switch with them for their P-38s.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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Kudo's to the Allies for doing as well as you did if this is what you had to work with! :aok
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Guys, try to keep this civil. Take the finger pointing else where.
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Guys, try to keep this Civil. Take the finger pointing else where.
edit: Nevermind. :(
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The email chain as printed here seems complete but it isn't. Printing it wrong way up may just be an error but it biases.
I read it bottom-up. Are there or are there not missing messages which change the sequence of exchanges?
That this behaviour is defended is worrying. I'm happy to point out that I am well aware that when kicked I am prone to kick back and I will take the licks for that.
Would be more worrying if both sides of an interaction were not weighed.
I'm totally detached from FSO because of my timezone. Perhaps you ought to value an impartial opinion: I do see the word want but only as a contextual explanation. The word preference is used when labelling that link. Frankly, looks like you either didn't read their preference or resentfully took it as an insistance that they get their ride (and over-reacted to that perhaps).
Would it not have been easier to do what Nefarious suggested (since the other squadron stated no preference), rather than telling them 'life’s tough' and to HTFU? Rather condescending.
Perhaps everyone directly involved should reduce their DEFCON setting just a notch and talk the issue out. Obviously preferences are a reasonable consideration. Perhaps refine the procedure for accomodating those fairly in future.
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We are a dedicated P-38 squadron! I demand to be put in P-38s or so help me I'll hold my breath till I pass out!
Can you people not read...it says p-38 right there underneath our squad name... :bhead :bhead :bhead
~Air Raiders~
P-38 Lightning jamusta 4 - 6 Axis Yes, FRAME 3 on 2017-06-23 Fighter
Fighter
Fighter
What we have here is failure to communicate... :old:
:bolt:
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Would it not have been easier to do what Nefarious suggested (since the other squadron stated no preference), rather than telling them 'life’s tough' and to HTFU? Rather condescending.
This should be done as a request by the 475th, and in a respectful manner. No attempt was made in the initial email to ask for a change just a reminder to be mindful of their preferred aircraft.
Dawger even examined the orders to see the P38s had went to a squad the same size. Bringing that information forward with some civil discussion might have seen them in P38s on Friday and a lot less upset people afterwards.
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We're lucky to get our ride once a year.
Every squad has been through this. Its no big deal to ask the question of why or why not. Its all in the delivery. This is a relatively respectable and mature community.
It doesn't matter what your historic ride is. It doesn't matter what you requested. In the end, ultimately, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you participate for the months you sign your squad up for and that you do your best to follow the orders sent to you. And ultimately, have fun. Period.
I can assure everyone, that every CiC makes every attempt to give you what you ask for. Because it comes full circle. One day you will be CiC and you know how hard it is but you try to do your best so everyone can be happy.
Can't please everyone.
Without naming any names, my advice to the community is quite simple. Please fulfill your commitment. Don't allow other's to dictate your fun. Ask the questions in the all email so you communicate. However, do it respectfully. And whatever the answer ends up being, accept it for what it is and dust yourself off and do the best you can with what you have been assigned. Every squad in this community has been through it. The sacrifice you make by not getting a ride you want is always for the good of the mission.
And if you don't see things that way then perhaps FSO isn't for you.
I am hoping this is resolved and no squads or personnel leave this community. Chalk it up as a learning experience and move on, all.
:rock
SlipKnoT
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in a respectful manner.
Standard.
No attempt was made in the initial email to ask for a change just a reminder to be mindful of their preferred aircraft.
Well it's a bit tomatoes / tomatoes. Depends on the culturally accepted version of politeness. In general a good quality to have in a position of responsibility is to absorb and not amplify these little frictions.
Wondering how long before I'm told to butt out :banana:
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Standard.
Well it's a bit tomatoes / tomatoes. Depends on the culturally accepted version of politeness. In general a good quality to have in a position of responsibility is to absorb and not amplify these little frictions.
Wondering how long before I'm told to butt out :banana:
Welcome to the new order. To resolve differences we now use bombast, demands, innuendo, litigation and if that doesn't work we take our toys and go home.
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...I have no words...
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Dawger, perhaps you don't understand how FSO works? For the record, my crew feels the same about 47s as you do 38s. I'm telling you from experience that you need to lower your expectations. You should consider yourself lucky if you get your ride once per month. Hell, half the time I think I'm doing well to get the SIDE I want. Your email came across as petty and childish and I think you owe Dantoo an apology.
Apology to Dantoo for what exactly?
My original email to the Allied list was addressed to the Frame 2 CIC, not Dantoo. He is the one who decided to trip a circuit breaker.
I never asked to get switched for frame 1. Once the orders are posted, it really is too late to try to rearrange things.
I have gone that route in the past and the result is just confusion. Email is a horrible venue for that sort of discussion.
And I won't apologize for making it painfully clear that I want my group in P-38's as much as possible.
This is a game and games are for fun. Our version of fun is flying the P-38 in historical match ups. If that "fun" is not something that can be relied upon then FSO is not fun for our group.
The email list is the side communication method chosen by the CM's and that is what I used.
We are asked to update preferences before every FSO. I am diligent about doing that.
When it is my turn for CIC I go out of my way to accommodate the listed preferences as the first priority.
I expect the same from every other CIC.
Dantoo chose to view my email as an attack on him and create this tempest in a teapot.
If preferences are to be ignored, as seems to be the general consensus here and from the CM's then the 475FG shall have to evaluate continued participation under those parameters.
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There does not seem to be a point to this thread. It is more confusing that helpful.
1) If a squad is leaving FSO, it is up to them. No one is forcing them to depart, from what I can read.
2) If there is a squad causing friction in the event, then they should be removed from the event until what time a determination can be made as to whether or not the event is right for that squad.
These kind of threads result in nothing but a bunch of finger pointing with no positive results. Too many defensive people just yelling at each other.