Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: viking73 on June 19, 2017, 02:08:11 AM

Title: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: viking73 on June 19, 2017, 02:08:11 AM
30 cal. and 50 cal. puts holes in wings and damage vital parts. It CANNOT take off wings, especially of bombers. There is one rare video of a wing coming off a FW but that is due to the fuel tank exploding, not the 50 cal. ammo 'cutting' the wing structure. 20mm and 30mm can destroy the structure of a wing. Still it would take several hits in the exact same spot to sever the wing. The wing would warp, bend and be unstable causing loss of control and aerodynamic. The videos of bomber wings coming off are due to 88mm flak. 50 cal in the game are way too powerful. Even cannons are. The game needs to focus more on pilots, systems and control surfaces. It's extremely laughable (more frustrating) to see a P51 sweep a bomber and shooting the wing off. It's not only wings but there are cases of plane fuselage being cut in half.  IT DIDN'T HAPPEN! Graphics and programming in this game have become terrible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q4VuoX0Mqs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q4VuoX0Mqs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoLLDi-M3fk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoLLDi-M3fk)

Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: bozon on June 19, 2017, 05:47:36 AM
Viking73,
so, you are asking HTC to nerf Bomber 0.5 gunners?
+1
 :D
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: thndregg on June 19, 2017, 06:26:56 AM
50 cal in the game are way too powerful. Even cannons are.

Disagree. Although my reason lacks hard data and evidence, the general level of difficulty in my B17 gunnery against opponents is acceptable. Their ammunition impacting my bombers is also acceptable.

I am sure HTC has the hard data to justify how they model ballistics.
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: save on June 19, 2017, 06:42:42 AM
In RL Bombers opened up at 800 yards or less to have any chance of damaging a fightersized target, in practice 400 yards would be the range where you have a descent chance of get a good hit %.

IRL German fighter planes opened up at 600 yards at a huge B17/B24 to inflict damage to it, and 400 against a fighter target.

In AH a good bomber gunner  can hit and disable a fighter @ 1.5k out regardless what angle, and the german fighter have to fly a gauntlet down to 800 yards  before even your shells are effective (exception is the ME410), if you manage to kill a bomber 2 stable bombers with all gunners  remain to make you life a misery all the out to 1.5k.

Luckily most are not that good in shooting from buffs.
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: TequilaChaser on June 19, 2017, 07:05:27 AM
Y'all should be grateful that HTC has not made it to where all 7 Gunner positions can be manned all at the same time by 7 different players

Which would really be cool if they would....

Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: Zygote404 on June 19, 2017, 07:32:04 AM
30 cal. and 50 cal. puts holes in wings and damage vital parts. It CANNOT take off wings, especially of bombers. There is one rare video of a wing coming off a FW but that is due to the fuel tank exploding, not the 50 cal. ammo 'cutting' the wing structure. 20mm and 30mm can destroy the structure of a wing. Still it would take several hits in the exact same spot to sever the wing. The wing would warp, bend and be unstable causing loss of control and aerodynamic. The videos of bomber wings coming off are due to 88mm flak. 50 cal in the game are way too powerful. Even cannons are. The game needs to focus more on pilots, systems and control surfaces. It's extremely laughable (more frustrating) to see a P51 sweep a bomber and shooting the wing off. It's not only wings but there are cases of plane fuselage being cut in half.  IT DIDN'T HAPPEN! Graphics and programming in this game have become terrible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q4VuoX0Mqs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q4VuoX0Mqs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoLLDi-M3fk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoLLDi-M3fk)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLxI6kW7bFU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLxI6kW7bFU)

At 8:50 seconds there is a classic AH wing off.  Looked like cannon fire but given some planes were made of very weak light materials,  I"m sure 6 or 8, or 12 machine guns could also do the same if the target was under sustained fire.   
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: Zimme83 on June 19, 2017, 07:51:19 AM
Thats what happen when you get some Hispanos into the fuel tank...

Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: Joker on June 19, 2017, 08:40:39 AM
Could it be possible or acceptable that certain deviations from reality have been made to facilitate game play in this game?

Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: nooby52 on June 19, 2017, 08:49:13 AM
Y'all should be grateful that HTC has not made it to where all 7 Gunner positions can be manned all at the same time by 7 different players

Which would really be cool if they would....

The good ol' days of the Death Star in AW.  :x
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: Joker on June 19, 2017, 08:51:33 AM
The good ol' days of the Death Star in AW.  :x

Yeah....not only could you load up a B-17 with your squaddies as gunners, but you could loop and roll with the spitfires too.  :rock
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: hgtonyvi on June 19, 2017, 03:58:13 PM
Y'all should be grateful that HTC has not made it to where all 7 Gunner positions can be manned all at the same time by 7 different players

Which would really be cool if they would....
that would be kool. Plus more kills for me.  :D
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: DmonSlyr on June 19, 2017, 04:20:08 PM
Ehhh, idk, I feel like 50 Cal's in fighters are too weak. Where as the bomber gunners are very strong. Its prolly because bombers have more level guns flying straight. It is a game after all, and lag/warp connection does have an impact. You can take a lot more damage in AH and still fly perfectly fine, oil leak, ,half tail falls off, rad hit, guns out, there's many situations where you can still fight if you are damage. In real life, it might not be very smart to do, if you can escape the enemy, you will go home. Most players in AH have to rake planes with 50s just to bring them down. In real life, you give a guy a PW or Oil leak, that's the end of the fight, most of the time. No need to waste so much ammo making sure they die. It all depends on the situation though. In AH, you have to make sure you get the kill, this means it takes extra time and bullets to take down players.  With the current 50 Cals, you have to hit the same spot for atleast 1.5 seconds for anything to happen. If it's shorter than that, it feels like 50s do very little damage. You can sprite a plane all over the place for 5 minutes and do no damage. Only big burst shot opportunities will take the guy down. 50s get you picked and killed moreso than planes with cannons, simply because of the time it takes to down planes. Snap shots don't work well at all with 50s.
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: nugetx on June 19, 2017, 04:21:38 PM
Could it be possible or acceptable that certain deviations from reality have been made to facilitate game play in this game?

I would think this is the case also.
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: Zimme83 on June 19, 2017, 04:29:58 PM
We dont have wings snapping in a turn after previously being hit in the wing spar either...

IRL even minor damage would have been enough to run for home since you never know how bad the structural damage is. Even if the plane is flying something important might fall off when you start to push the plane a bit...
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: Joker on June 19, 2017, 05:58:22 PM

IRL even minor damage would have been enough to run for home since you never know how bad the structural damage is. Even if the plane is flying something important might fall off when you start to push the plane a bit...
Very true, and how much fun would our furballs be if every pilot had to run home after taking just a small amount of damage?
The fights would dissipate pretty quickly.
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: Zimme83 on June 19, 2017, 06:50:11 PM
According to the stories RAF banned "victory rolls" in 1940 after several planes with battle damage broke apart and crashed when the pilots did their victory roll over the base...
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: oakranger on June 19, 2017, 08:34:36 PM
30 cal. and 50 cal. puts holes in wings and damage vital parts. It CANNOT take off wings, especially of bombers. There is one rare video of a wing coming off a FW but that is due to the fuel tank exploding, not the 50 cal. ammo 'cutting' the wing structure. 20mm and 30mm can destroy the structure of a wing. Still it would take several hits in the exact same spot to sever the wing. The wing would warp, bend and be unstable causing loss of control and aerodynamic. The videos of bomber wings coming off are due to 88mm flak. 50 cal in the game are way too powerful. Even cannons are. The game needs to focus more on pilots, systems and control surfaces. It's extremely laughable (more frustrating) to see a P51 sweep a bomber and shooting the wing off. It's not only wings but there are cases of plane fuselage being cut in half.  IT DIDN'T HAPPEN! Graphics and programming in this game have become terrible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q4VuoX0Mqs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q4VuoX0Mqs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoLLDi-M3fk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoLLDi-M3fk)


 :rofl
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: Mongoose on June 19, 2017, 09:10:52 PM
Could it be possible or acceptable that certain deviations from reality have been made to facilitate game play in this game?

Not when it comes to the flight model, or ballistics, or damage done to airplanes.  Hitech has repeatedly stated that the goal is to make a game that is as realistic as possible when it comes to the flight model, the ballistics of the bullets, and the damage that bullets do to planes.  It is impossible to be 100% accurate, but the goal is make the simulation as close to the real thing as can be done within the limits of the environment and the computing power available.

Acceptable deviations from reality include stuff like, refueling and re-arming in thirty seconds, and the all-seeing radar (kind of necessary to find where the fight is). 

Damage to ground targets is set for game play.  Damage versus aircraft is calculated as a best effort to simulate the real thing.  If you think the damage model is off, present hard evidence, not just a couple of videos.
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: EskimoJoe on June 19, 2017, 10:48:11 PM
Having seen first hand what one .50 caliber M2 machinegun can do to a lightly armored vehicle, I have no doubt that 8 of them focused on a single point, on a target pulling Gs, would do considerable damage to a thin aluminum skinned, potentially steel framed aircraft.

After all, there is a reason it has been in service for almost 80 years.
Title: Re: damage from guns are totally off
Post by: FBKampfer on June 20, 2017, 12:51:25 AM
I think its because of the damage model. If a part fails or is destroyed, it simply goes away if its structural in nature.