Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ML52 on June 24, 2017, 04:39:50 PM

Title: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: ML52 on June 24, 2017, 04:39:50 PM
Last night I flew two sorties that raised a question about bomb blast damage radius models. They were in the Mossie bomber with the 4k bomb. In both sorties I was at calibrated speed, the cross hairs split the center of the vh I was dropping on, both bombs landed so close the craters touched the vh but it didn't fall. In a 47 D40 I can drop a vh with 6 rockets and 2 2k bombs, even if all the rockets don't hit. Why with 8k bombs landing so close was there no damage?
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: pembquist on June 24, 2017, 06:23:11 PM
Just want to be clear, how did you have a formation of 2?
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Lusche on June 24, 2017, 06:26:32 PM
A 4k HC/LC bomb doesn't do 4k damage. It does 2,344lb of damage, because of two reasons:

- Size. Larger bombs are less effective, smaller bombs more. The only bomb size doing it's weigh in damage is the 1K bomb class. Smaller bombs do more relative damage the smaller they get (a 250lb bomb does 312lb of damage), the larger they get, the less damage you get per pound of weight.

- Type. The numbers above are for HE, general purpose bombs. HC or LC (different names for the came thing) bombs do only 75% the damage a HE bomb of same size would do (at increased damage radius though)

And 2,344lb is less than the 2,782lb of damage required to kill a hangar.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: ML52 on June 24, 2017, 08:06:29 PM
I flew two separate sorties using a single plane. Thanks Lusche, not sure that makes sense but there must be a reason.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Mongoose on June 24, 2017, 08:51:20 PM
I flew two separate sorties using a single plane. Thanks Lusche, not sure that makes sense but there must be a reason.

In heavier bombs, more of the weight is in the casing.  There should be a chart around here showing the weight of the bomb compared to the weight of the explosive in the bomb.  HC/LC bombs do less damage, but have a larger blast radius.  The damage is spread over a larger area. 
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: BowHTR on June 24, 2017, 09:54:47 PM
Chart I made up for our group a while back. Feel free to use it!

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/bwgcommunity/monthly_2017_06/large.BombDamage_Color.png.4625bcf68f4ba6182471355c28c87853.png)
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: pembquist on June 25, 2017, 03:05:33 AM
I flew two separate sorties using a single plane. Thanks Lusche, not sure that makes sense but there must be a reason.

I think that explains it. Lusche can explain more accurately but the damage that you do to an object has a time limit if you haven't destroyed it. It is something like one half the unadjusted down time. So if that is the right number than unless you can drop your second bomb on the hanger within 7.5 minutes of the first one it is like you never dropped the first one at all.

(You get the idea, Im not sure if the specifics are correct)
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: cav58d on June 25, 2017, 09:15:59 AM
The black widows chart says 4K bomb does 3,125lbs of damage.  Where did you get your figure from lusche?  I am inclined to believe your figure because it makes sense, and I too had the surprise recently of taking a single mossie bomber with a cookie, and square on nailing the VH and it didn't go down.  Twice!
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: BowHTR on June 25, 2017, 11:01:20 AM
Dont know why my chart disappeared....

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/bwgcommunity/monthly_2017_06/large.BombDamage_Color.png.0aa31f96a0800d5eec21e3e40b3ece8b.png)


The black widows chart says 4K bomb does 3,125lbs of damage.  Where did you get your figure from lusche?  I am inclined to believe your figure because it makes sense, and I too had the surprise recently of taking a single mossie bomber with a cookie, and square on nailing the VH and it didn't go down.  Twice!

That's if we had a 4K GP Bomb, It would do 3,125lb of damage. The ones we have are HC/LC.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Lusche on June 25, 2017, 11:20:10 AM
(...)
(You get the idea, Im not sure if the specifics are correct)

They are  :old:


(http://s3.amazonaws.com/bwgcommunity/monthly_2017_06/large.BombDamage_Color.png.0aa31f96a0800d5eec21e3e40b3ece8b.png)

 :rock
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Zimme83 on June 25, 2017, 11:37:44 AM
The 1800kg bomb is the most powerful we have, its enough to kill a hangar.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: cav58d on June 25, 2017, 12:09:54 PM
Dont know why my chart disappeared....

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/bwgcommunity/monthly_2017_06/large.BombDamage_Color.png.0aa31f96a0800d5eec21e3e40b3ece8b.png)


That's if we had a 4K GP Bomb, It would do 3,125lb of damage. The ones we have are HC/LC.

That would explain it.

Is anyone else having trouble dropping hangars with 1,000 pounders and a salvo of one?  The last couple times I've tried with a 1 salvo in 17's or 24's from high alt it seems like the center bomb is a direct head but the formations bombs fall just too far left and right and don't bring down the hangar.  I don't feel like my calibration is off and I'm losing confidence to the point that I now salvo 2.

Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Lusche on June 25, 2017, 12:12:28 PM
I don't feel like my calibration is off and I'm losing confidence to the point that I now salvo 2.

Use 500 pounders with salvo 2. That way you do not waste that much.
In most bombers and missions, 500 pounders are the most economical choice.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Lusche on June 25, 2017, 12:14:01 PM
The 1800kg bomb is the most powerful we have, its enough to kill a hangar.

Are you sure? While it's now called a GP bomb, I was under the impression it's been modeled as a HC bomb. I just did two drops on bomber hangars to test it, they never went down.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: pembquist on June 25, 2017, 12:27:40 PM
If the 1800 is the big bomb for the Stuka I have used it a couple times to kill a hanger, don't know if it had been softened up though.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: bozon on June 25, 2017, 01:15:42 PM
Does bomb damage decrease with distance from the explosion center?

The mossies 4000lbs cookie has an huge blast radius, but just about the same total point damage as the 4*500 lbs you can carry in the bomb bay. However, against towns the blast radius is so large (increase with bomb size and HC bonus) and blast area goes like the square of the radius, that it hits a lot more buildings than 4*500 would. The total damage potential of the 4000lbs cookie is thus much larger. Also, aiming is optional   :D
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Zimme83 on June 25, 2017, 01:22:47 PM
Are you sure? While it's now called a GP bomb, I was under the impression it's been modeled as a HC bomb. I just did two drops on bomber hangars to test it, they never went down.

It kills a hangar, ive done it multiple times.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Lusche on June 25, 2017, 05:31:35 PM
It kills a hangar, ive done it multiple times.

Yes it can. The problem is, there is something wrong with custom online arenas. In offline mode it worked without problems, online it did not. And yes, "protect objects" was off in both modes.  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Lusche on June 25, 2017, 06:09:52 PM
Turned out to be a map specific problem. Bug report in the making...
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: cav58d on June 25, 2017, 06:21:44 PM
Has anyone ever 1 pass white flagged a town with 250lb bombs?

I can single pass in Lancs with either the 1,000 pounders or the 500 pounders + cookie.  It's also possible to single pass in 24's with the thousand pounders.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: redcatcherb412 on June 26, 2017, 09:13:34 AM
500 pounders are the most economical choice.
Anyone that's been within 200 yards or so of a MK82 can probably agree with this, and that a 500's blast/shrapnel combo is quite lethal. The game seems pretty accurate in that regard.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Traveler on June 29, 2017, 10:24:27 AM
Physics question, Aircraft A,  a P38 loaded with two 1000lb bombs and 10 rockets,  is diving on a target, a Fighter Hanger, at 450 MPH  pilot fires 5 rockets, and releases two 1000lb bombs.
At what speed do the 5 rockets hit the target and at what speed does the 1000lb bomb hit the target?  Is any part of the kinetic energy  of either weapon considered in the Damage Model?
 
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Lusche on June 29, 2017, 11:16:59 AM
Is any part of the kinetic energy  of either weapon considered in the Damage Model?

No. Not even for guns, which do a fixed amount damage against all objects at any range.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Dundee on June 30, 2017, 12:27:49 PM
Dont know why my chart disappeared....

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/bwgcommunity/monthly_2017_06/large.BombDamage_Color.png.0aa31f96a0800d5eec21e3e40b3ece8b.png)


That's if we had a 4K GP Bomb, It would do 3,125lb of damage. The ones we have are HC/LC.

The 1,800 kg gp is missing from the list.... and that one is a real hangar killer for sure
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Krusty on June 30, 2017, 12:55:41 PM
Are the B-29 4k bombs just visual re-skins of the older 4k cookies, or do they behave differently? I'd guess differently, but I'd like confirmation.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Zimme83 on July 07, 2017, 07:40:41 AM
Dont know why my chart disappeared....

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/bwgcommunity/monthly_2017_06/large.BombDamage_Color.png.0aa31f96a0800d5eec21e3e40b3ece8b.png)


That's if we had a 4K GP Bomb, It would do 3,125lb of damage. The ones we have are HC/LC.

The damage for the 1000kg doesn't seem to be right. 1000kg is ~2200lbs so 2800lbs of damage seems a bit off..

The 1,800 kg gp is missing from the list.... and that one is a real hangar killer for sure


1800 kg is almost exactly 4000lbs so you can use the number for a 4000lbs GP bomb.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: BowHTR on July 07, 2017, 08:14:37 AM
The damage for the 1000kg doesn't seem to be right. 1000kg is ~2200lbs so 2800lbs of damage seems a bit off..

1800 kg is almost exactly 4000lbs so you can use the number for a 4000lbs GP bomb.

The original information came from the old AH Help files that used to be on the AH site. I can't seem to find it now. This was essentially a copy/paste from that and then I just worked the numbers for the different types of bombs.

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/bwgcommunity/monthly_2017_07/large.595f883998b38_ProjectileDamage.png.68d76d19652ebe7a30d283a0a18b3fe6.png)
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Zimme83 on July 07, 2017, 08:19:51 AM
Its 200lbs between a 2000lb and a 1000kg but on the chart the 1000kg does 1100 lbs more damage than a 2000 puonder. The 1000 kg bomb does around 1900 lbs of damage.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: BowHTR on July 07, 2017, 09:10:24 AM
Its 200lbs between a 2000lb and a 1000kg but on the chart the 1000kg does 1100 lbs more damage than a 2000 puonder. The 1000 kg bomb does around 1900 lbs of damage.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm telling you the initial information came from the HTC help site, which is changed now and this info is no longer there. Do you have any data to support that a 1000kg bomb does 1900lb of damage? Are you just guessing based off of the weight?
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Zimme83 on July 07, 2017, 10:03:32 AM
After a brief test: the damage is 1890 (+/- 4) lbs.
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: BowHTR on July 07, 2017, 10:14:06 AM
After a brief test: the damage is 1890 (+/- 4) lbs.

Thanks!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Bomb blast damage radius
Post by: Zimme83 on July 07, 2017, 12:54:55 PM
But I see the issue now, 1890 *1.5 is 2835 so the number for the 1000kg GP is for the AP- bomb...