Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: RufusLeaking on July 22, 2017, 11:45:29 AM
-
*** Just a discussion. Not a criticism. Everyone stay calm. ***
77 Allies versus 103 Axis on July 21, 2017 Frame 3.
Is there a way to adjust the side balance on the night of FSO? I would gladly change to the low side at the last minute.
But, that would throw plans off for the side with better attendance.
Maybe allow walk-ons to fill in established squads? This is probably already happening on an informal level. I believe squad membership in FSO is distinct from the Melee squads, so there is no 'paperwork' issue.
*** Don't misinterpret. I love FSO. I have missed one or two per year in the last eight years. It is the best of the Aces High experience. This is just a discussion. ***
-
Ruf,
We had a similar discussion last evening. I'm not sure what is happening, and like you I don't miss an FSO if there is any way I can make it. I suspect (Purely speculation) that when squads get rides they don't like, they simply aren't showing up. I don't get that. The PIGS proved last night that you can be highly successful in any ride if you execute correctly (Yes, I just said something nice about the Avian Porcines! :D :D :D)
I know the FSO CMs are well aware of the problem--I'm at a loss as to what they can do to fix it. (I'm guessing that if you offer walk-ons the mighty JU-87, or similar Allied rides, they will likely politely decline -- even if they are some of the 'funnest' missions).
IF they allowed the walk-ons (or side-switchers) to jump into the premier fighters on the lesser numbered side, then there would be howling from the other side (and rightly so).
- Then there's that whole issue with the guys that are switching sides KNOW what the side they just switched from have planned.
Lets hope some one comes up with a solution. (OR, is this the usual Summer Weirdness??)
:cheers:
- Rodent57
-
The PIGS proved last night that you can be highly successful in any ride if you execute correctly (Yes, I just said something nice about the Avian Porcines! :D :D :D)
- Rodent57
Thank you Sir.
:salute
-
Not the first time seeing a unbalance event. Worst for FSO was 70 something difference.
-
Eastern Front sometimes gets low attendance. Plus, people are on vacation. You are correct, the Admins are looking into the matter. (Maybe a sliding point scale? I don't know). On the bright side, I took over the event with 15 minutes until launch and no one crashed into each other on the runway (We have actually started to test that). Missions remained fuggered, we are looking into that. One last comment, sometimes the worst planes make for the funniest event. My best FSO ever was in a C.202 (go figure). But we have also had some fun Stuka missions. Thanks FSO Squads and Players. :salute
-
- Then there's that whole issue with the guys that are switching sides KNOW what the side they just switched from have planned.
I didn't think of this very valid point.
As for a solution, I got nothing. The walk-ons would have to be plugged in to squadrons like WWII replacements, which didn't go that well.
Maybe have a swing squadron or two get their orders at the last minute. Sounds dumber even as I type it.
(I'm guessing that if you offer walk-ons the mighty JU-87, or similar Allied rides, they will likely politely decline -- even if they are some of the 'funnest' missions).
One last comment, sometimes the worst planes make for the funniest event. My best FSO ever was in a C.202 (go figure). But we have also had some fun Stuka missions.
Stukas are awesome. Two, maybe three frames in the gull winged classic have all been memorably fun. On a related note, there was a great time had with D3A's.
One of the great things about FSO is taking a hangar queen out for a spin. It really opened my eyes to the depth of the AH plane set.
-
I know I will regret replying to this but I canceled my AH account a few hours ago so it doesn't much matter.
As the CO of an historical squad that has been together for 20 years, I was looking for an event that fulfilled our particular desire for historical match ups that rewarded teamwork, planning and execution.
As a group we have long years of experience in all kinds of MMOG WWII aviation events including a prior run in AH in the FSO.
My impression this time around is that FSO has too many plane types and too little mystery. Everyone knows the fight will start over the declared targets at T+47. plus or minus 5 minutes.
Even with all that FSO was still attractive as an opportunity operate together and occasionally fly our historical ride. I made it clear that we were willing to fly whatever was assigned except when our group historical ride was available. The response to that from the FSO community was basically "shut up and fly what we tell you".
The community reaction to our desire to be assigned our historical ride as much as possible was the catalyst for the present exit of myself and others in the group, not only from FSO participation but from AH itself.
Slogging through frame after frame in airframes we have no real interest in with no carrot of our group ride when available naturally reduces overall interest and once folks sit out a few Friday nights they have a tendency to stay gone.
Not all groups have the motivation of an historical ride to look forward to and it is not the only motivator in my group. The other motivating factors are also somewhat lacking.
FSO setups are bound by rules that make them extremely predictable. CiC's are bound by constraints that make CIC duty mainly assigning aircraft and complying with restrictions.
Our role most often was "defend XYZ" and frame after frame that consists of climbing and flying in circles until the fight starts at T-45, 10 15 minutes of action followed by a rearm and mostly pointless second sortie.
Assignment as an attacker did not vary much either.
I expect this post to be met with derision. That too shall serve to make my point.
-
I think your squad was one of the lucky ones, as a mostly allied squad. Now, I am not saying you always got your historical ride, but man you sure had a LOT more chances of getting it vs a squad like ours. See we are a blue plane squad, hellcats, hogs, TBM's, SBD's, wildcats..... You get the picture I bet.
In your recent time in FSO, we had a chance how many times to fly blue? Not much sir!
So some of us, have it worse off than you folks did when it comes to ride pref's..... Sorry, but that's just a reality.
Heck we have guys who like other fighters too, I cannot recall last time I got a pony in FSO, and believe me the last time they were in the setup, it was hard to see the same guys get them all 3 frames :furious
So we got labeled as a buff squad, not sure why..... Well maybe I am.
It's about to the point where I look at the bomber match up to determine what side we are gonna fly, because most every Cic out there is going to give us that duty. We just decide to have fun with it and do off the wall Ops with em....... Because we can :aok
So your FSO experience, while it is dictated by others in ways, still can be a good time, you just have to decide to make it that.
Too bad your leaving, but at the same time I get why you are..... Good luck to you, and your squad mates.
:salute
Jdog
G3-MF
-
I know I will regret replying to this but I canceled my AH account a few hours ago so it doesn't much matter.
As the CO of an historical squad that has been together for 20 years, I was looking for an event that fulfilled our particular desire for historical match ups that rewarded teamwork, planning and execution.
As a group we have long years of experience in all kinds of MMOG WWII aviation events including a prior run in AH in the FSO.
My impression this time around is that FSO has too many plane types and too little mystery. Everyone knows the fight will start over the declared targets at T+47. plus or minus 5 minutes.
Even with all that FSO was still attractive as an opportunity operate together and occasionally fly our historical ride. I made it clear that we were willing to fly whatever was assigned except when our group historical ride was available. The response to that from the FSO community was basically "shut up and fly what we tell you".
The community reaction to our desire to be assigned our historical ride as much as possible was the catalyst for the present exit of myself and others in the group, not only from FSO participation but from AH itself.
Slogging through frame after frame in airframes we have no real interest in with no carrot of our group ride when available naturally reduces overall interest and once folks sit out a few Friday nights they have a tendency to stay gone.
Not all groups have the motivation of an historical ride to look forward to and it is not the only motivator in my group. The other motivating factors are also somewhat lacking.
FSO setups are bound by rules that make them extremely predictable. CiC's are bound by constraints that make CIC duty mainly assigning aircraft and complying with restrictions.
Our role most often was "defend XYZ" and frame after frame that consists of climbing and flying in circles until the fight starts at T-45, 10 15 minutes of action followed by a rearm and mostly pointless second sortie.
Assignment as an attacker did not vary much either.
I expect this post to be met with derision. That too shall serve to make my point.
It just got a heck of lot easier to issue orders without you to tip-toe around.
(https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.73862007.8252/flat,800x800,075,t.u1.jpg)
-
Funny....A squad flys FSO for what...5 months...Says they didn't get p38s every frame that they were available...Then rage quits....Par for the course...
-
Someone rage quit? Dawger pretty well laid out the reasons why he will no longer participate, I read it as the FSOs are predictable and stale with little motivation to grind it out, regardless of the ride. Five months, plus whatever time they had in before, how long does it take for someone to figure it out? Most 475th stopped flying in the melee long before that. If both bore you then it is time to go. No loss to this community of shut up and color.
-
Funny....A squad flys FSO for what...5 months...Says they didn't get p38s every frame that they were available...Then rage quits....Par for the course...
I'm sorry to see them leave but fear not, nature abhors a vacuum and there are plenty of young mmg players coming up to fill the role of peeve and moan, demanding all to honor their entitlement to special privilege.
-
FSO's evolved to a more scripted event to make sure you didn't show up and just bore holes in the sky. No fun to show up and not see any enemy all night. A bit of a trade off maybe but the best option with the tools and numbers we have. My 2 cents. :cheers:
-
It's always been a challenge to get the #s the way we want them.
-
I know I will regret replying to this but I canceled my AH account a few hours ago so it doesn't much matter.
I guess a "you all will miss me when I'm gone" note has a place in a side balancing thread? :headscratch:
The intent of the OP was to discuss side balancing when people don't show up. That people don't show because they don't get their favorite planes or assignments is disappointing. I still got nothing on a solution.
One can imagine an arena where squads can get together, fly whatever, choose their mission, their target and their timing at their own discretion, unpredictably. If only there was such an arena. :bolt:
-
the idea of the FSO is assigned squads with predicted numbers ranges, showing up and flying assigned aircraft. now part of the problem is its summer and people go on vacation. the other part is people being assigned aircraft they don't like. a third possible but unlikely possibility is that saying its stale and predictable. this is from my perspective only so please don't read into this.
summer time-- people go on vacation, squad numbers get low. ok so the squad shows minimum barely or less.
2 or 3 or more squads do that and now you have a problem. how to fix it? well lets see how about asking a squad to switch sides
the night of the event? oh sure that would work out great. go to the MA and get more players to fill in slots? well id be all for it
but that probably wouldn't work out either. so how do you fix the fact that people go on vacation? good question?
not flying planes they don't like-- sure just don't show up. that works.....in punishing the CIC and everyone else by screwing up
plans and execution of attack or defense. yeah what do you care, you don't like that ride anyway..... well what about the people
depending on you to take the plane? what about fulfilling your part of a bigger plan to make something happen. how unfair.
how to fix it? maybe let groups ask for different rides after the orders come out so the CIC has even more work to do?
switch with another squad to fly their planes and they fly yours? pick one, but not showing up for something you've
committed to, because of a plane vs an actually family event or vacation or something to do.......selfish at best, but
mostly ignorant to the rest of the people that fly planes whether they like it or not.
as far as predictability and that its stale, make it more unpredictable. make it more exciting. try things no one things off.
squads are usually allowed to do their own thing as part of the FSO. so make it someone no one has thought of.
try different things. JG54 is known for tactics no one else will try, ask any of my squad mates! I come up with stuff they think is
goofy and off the wall, but sometimes it works. and when it does I get great satisfaction on how much my squad
not only enjoyed it, but talks about it.
we are in charge of our own destiny's as squads and players. just try to make the best of what you have or what you get.
that's what the FSO is all about. sure there a big picture, but its still all about having fun!
the CM's try to create an environment that requires co-ordination but should still be fun.
many squads enjoy flying together and having fun!
CIC's try to accomplish a goal and if you succeed, its fun!
the common denominator is having fun! remember that. make it FUN!!
there are many people that work very hard to make this enjoyable. from the CM staff to the CIC's to the
guys that just like to participate. <S> to everyone that makes it fun and works hard at making it that way!
ok im done with my rant now. <S>
-
The data I have collected over the last nine years dose not support any argument that numbers get low over the summer time. I see low turnout through out the year. As far as what the set up is, I will need to look at each event to what the timeline was and numbers ........brain storming on this. however, no event was consistent with show ups in all three frame but showed hills and valley.
-
Dawger. it's widely know I do not like you. I don't a poven of your methods.
However I am still sorry to see you leave the game.
Take care :salute
DutchVII
-
As pointed out side balancing in frame is not really possible since any squad or players you switch to the other side would then know the attack and defense plan of the side they are now fighting against.
As for CMs, they do what they can after the frame is over. Basically they investigate what happened with squad X, Y, Z not making their commitments to see if it was a blip or going to be low or a problem for additional frames. Then make a determination if they need to swap a squad to the other side if necessary. It has been done in the past when things got really out of whack. Which is why they really, really, really need accurate info from squads about if they can consistently making their commitment levels (min / max) and if the squad thinks it is going to have issues making their min during the even they need the COs / XOs to tell them so that they can adjust things.
-
2 or 3 or more squads do that and now you have a problem. the fact that people go on vacation? good question?
This is the root of the problem. I was a lone CJ one frame. Not a proud moment, but I flew on as a squadron of one.
not flying planes they don't like-- sure just don't show up. that works.....in punishing the CIC and everyone else by screwing up
plans and execution of attack or defense. yeah what do you care, you don't like that ride anyway..... well what about the people
depending on you to take the plane? what about fulfilling your part of a bigger plan to make something happen. how unfair.
In complete agreement. The FSO experience is greatly enhanced by manning up and flying a dud every few frames.
how to fix it? maybe let groups ask for different rides after the orders come out so the CIC has even more work to do?
switch with another squad to fly their planes and they fly yours?
Changes in the week for the CiC assumes good comm. My own experiences include not being aware I was CiC and having emails go to Junk box. Same issue might occur in negotiations between squads.
Still, I endorse getting as many people in their ride of choice as possible. I also try to spread the dogs around as much as possible, frame to frame.
as far as predictability and that its stale, make it more unpredictable. make it more exciting. try things no one things off.
squads are usually allowed to do their own thing as part of the FSO. so make it someone no one has thought of.
try different things. JG54 is known for tactics no one else will try, ask any of my squad mates! I come up with stuff they think is
goofy and off the wall, but sometimes it works. and when it does I get great satisfaction on how much my squad
not only enjoyed it, but talks about it.
Staleness and predictability are not valid whines. Cancelling one's AH subscription over it? I don't comprehend.
we are in charge of our own destiny's as squads and players. just try to make the best of what you have or what you get.
that's what the FSO is all about. sure there a big picture, but its still all about having fun!
the CM's try to create an environment that requires co-ordination but should still be fun.
many squads enjoy flying together and having fun!
CIC's try to accomplish a goal and if you succeed, its fun!
the common denominator is having fun! remember that. make it FUN!!
there are many people that work very hard to make this enjoyable. from the CM staff to the CIC's to the
guys that just like to participate. <S> to everyone that makes it fun and works hard at making it that way!
Wholeheartedly agree. The fun is a direct result of a few folks substantial effort. :salute
Thanks to all.
ok im done with my rant now. <S>
Really didn't read it as a rant.
Which is why they really, really, really need accurate info from squads about if they can consistently making their commitment levels (min / max) and if the squad thinks it is going to have issues making their min during the even they need the COs / XOs to tell them so that they can adjust things.
How far in advance would changes have to be made? Especially side changes. Changes within a side would be less problematic.
-
I guess a "you all will miss me when I'm gone" note has a place in a side balancing thread? :headscratch:
The intent of the OP was to discuss side balancing when people don't show up. That people don't show because they don't get their favorite planes or assignments is disappointing. I still got nothing on a solution.
One can imagine an arena where squads can get together, fly whatever, choose their mission, their target and their timing at their own discretion, unpredictably. If only there was such an arena. :bolt:
hmmm, isn't that the MA? :old:
-
We couldn't get the sides to balance in Combat Challenge last week and everybody is allowed to change sides constantly in that event.
FSO is a bit harder.
In the past, if there has been a wipeout in frame one, then a squad or two could be moved across for balance.
This isn't always a clear decision to make.
Month before last, frame one, Axis were gone just after the hour. Allies flew round breaking stuff unopposed.
Axis won the frame!
Not always clear what to do. Gotta sympathise with the CMs. :aok