Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Karnak on September 10, 2001, 03:03:00 AM
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ENY values show little sense of order after the top few aircraft.
Look at this:
N1K2-J: 15.52% of fighter kills, ENY: 10
Spitfire Mk IX: 11.70% of fighter kills, ENY: 13
P-51D: 9.30% of fighter kills, ENY: 18
La-7: 8.55% of fighter kills, ENY: 15
F4U-1D: 5.10% of fighter kills, ENY: 18
Bf 109G-10: 4.14% of fighter kills, ENY: 22
SpitV: 3.90% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
Typhoon IB: 3.69% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
P-38L: 3.29% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
F6F-5: 3.11% of fighter kills, ENY: 22
Fw190D-9: 3.10% of fighter kills, ENY: 18
A6M5b: 3.06% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
Ki-61: 2.57% of fighter kills, ENY: 18
SeaFire: 2.46% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
Fw 190A-5: 2.26% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
Yak-9U: 1.99% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
Fw 190A-8: 1.57% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
C.205: 1.40% of fighter kills, ENY: 40
P-47-D30: 1.27% of fighter kills, ENY: 29
Bf 109G-6: 1.21% of fighter kills, ENY: 35
Bf 109G-2: 0.98% of fighter kills, ENY: 40
P-47D-11: 0.90% of fighter kills, ENY: 18
P-51B: 0.80% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
Bf 109F-4: 0.76% of fighter kills, ENY: 40
La-5FN: 0.64% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
P-47-D25: 0.62% of fighter kills, ENY: 31
Yak-9T: 0.59% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
C.202: 0.29% of fighter kills, ENY: 50
Fw 190F-8: 0.26% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
Wouldn't it make more sense for the ENY to become steadily larger as the usage became lower?
Like this:
N1K2-J: 15.52% of fighter kills, ENY: 10
Spitfire Mk IX: 11.70% of fighter kills, ENY: 13
P-51D: 9.30% of fighter kills, ENY: 15
La-7: 8.55% of fighter kills, ENY: 16
F4U-1D: 5.10% of fighter kills, ENY: 18
Bf 109G-10: 4.14% of fighter kills, ENY: 20
SpitV: 3.90% of fighter kills, ENY: 22
Typhoon IB: 3.69% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
P-38L: 3.29% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
F6F-5: 3.11% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
Fw190D-9: 3.10% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
A6M5b: 3.06% of fighter kills, ENY: 25
Ki-61: 2.57% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
SeaFire: 2.46% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
Fw 190A-5: 2.26% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
Yak-9U: 1.99% of fighter kills, ENY: 30
Fw 190A-8: 1.57% of fighter kills, ENY: 35
C.205: 1.40% of fighter kills, ENY: 35
P-47-D30: 1.27% of fighter kills, ENY: 35
Bf 109G-6: 1.21% of fighter kills, ENY: 35
Bf 109G-2: 0.98% of fighter kills, ENY: 40
P-47D-11: 0.90% of fighter kills, ENY: 40
P-51B: 0.80% of fighter kills, ENY: 40
Bf 109F-4: 0.76% of fighter kills, ENY: 45
La-5FN: 0.64% of fighter kills, ENY: 45
P-47-D25: 0.62% of fighter kills, ENY: 45
Yak-9T: 0.59% of fighter kills, ENY: 45
C.202: 0.29% of fighter kills, ENY: 50
Fw 190F-8: 0.26% of fighter kills, ENY: 50
[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]
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Hmm, should the eny value really be just from popularity?
For instance 190F is not any worse plane than A8 and p47 usage is divided in 3 almost identical planes - hence shows less popular than it really is. All p47s make about 3% - about the same as zeke.
All the planes that have many submodels are like that.
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janjan,
That may be, but I think that the perk system should be used to encourage the use of rarer aircraft, even if there are more used versions of that airframe that are more common.
For example, fighting a Bf109F-4 is much different than fighting a Bf109G-10.
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I agree, those values do need to be adjusted.
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Excellent initiative karnak <S!>
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If ENY is supposed to be some measure of a plane's "worth", I think you should use the kills/killed ratio instead of just kills.
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I agree with BeeJay... I'm not sure you should base the values on the % of kills by a particular plane... that just shows which planes are most popular... I would think that looking at K/D ratio of a plane would give a more accurate reading. The Spit MK IX that is 2nd on the chart above, routinely has a 1 to 1 K/D ratio. Of course... the quality of the pilots flying a particular plane would bring it up or drag it down a bit. HMmm... actually, I guess it depends on what this value is supposed to encourage. Does it tries to encourage use in a wide variety of planes, or adjust PP based on the strength of the planes... or both? I suppose the best way might be to take 1/3 from K/D ratio, 1/3 from kills and 1/3 a subjective ranking. Anyway... the values sure have confused me too.
[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: Paxil ]
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I like your approach Karnak.
I think the ENY values should be based PURELY on popularity. Really performance will factor into the popularity numbers anyway. I just want the Perk system to encourage a nice wide range of planes up flying in AH. The more rare a plane, the higher it's ENY. Works for me. :)
Optimally, I'd like to see an automated system that adjusts the ENY values based on popularity at the start of each tour using the numbers from the one that ends. That would rock.
Lephturn
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Actually... now that I think a bit more about it... I like Lephturn's idea... based strictly on usage... and they could even be dynamic. (Or set at the end of every tour)
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If you're going to go based on popularity, forget fighter kill % and go with another stat that we just can't see via the web stuff. # of sorties of the plane. That would give a clearer indication of how often the plane is used. Popularity should take into account how often the plane is used, and not just against fighters. You gotta include against bombers because you get perkies for shooting them down and you get perkies for flying in attack roles and damaging GVs and ground targets. That's what ENY is all about, the perk points.
Another option would be total time in flight for a model instead of just # of sorties.
EDIT - to add reasoning as to why more than just fighter kills need to be factored in. :)
[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: Nifty ]
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# of sorties may not be the answer either. Selecting the plane and spawning on the flightline or hanger and then change your mind or find out you forgot to load the rockets or you want to change planes so you return to tower, still counts as a sortie even though you didnt take off.
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Originally posted by AirScrew:
# of sorties may not be the answer either. Selecting the plane and spawning on the flightline or hanger and then change your mind or find out you forgot to load the rockets or you want to change planes so you return to tower, still counts as a sortie even though you didnt take off.
hence why I added the time in flight as another option. :) # of sorties could be abused. Someone could sit at a base far from the action, spawn and end flight over and over again. hmm, make that someone WOULD do that. ;) Flight time would be a much better alternative then.
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Look at the numbers and figure out for yourself if ENY dictates usage in any form. The lowest ENY is the highest used plane.
The ENY should be based primarily on ability.
To be honest, its a moot point. Before arguing ENY it may be worth it to get a perk plane people actually want to fly.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Lephturn:
Optimally, I'd like to see an automated system that adjusts the ENY values based on popularity at the start of each tour using the numbers from the one that ends. That would rock.
Lephturn
Excellent idea.
But how about updating it constantly 24/7 ? It wouldn't be so hard to code, would it ?
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But how about updating it constantly 24/7 ? It wouldn't be so hard to code, would it ?
They already did it once with WB, I'm sure they could do it again. :)
My favorite WB MA setup was RPS with adaptive score multipliers. Yummy.
[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Erm, you guys are forgeting that some fighters are ideal kamikaze craft (p-38, p-47d25) ,and some are base defense (zeke, n1k, la7,spit).
I see 10X the n1ks and la7s in a fight (not kamikaze or base defense) than I see p-47s and c205's.
Some planes DO need to be adjusted in their eny value, but please bear in mind that some others dont get used "to fight" and their popularity is shown in those stats thanks to the base defense/kamikaze potential.
Keep that in mind :)
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Thanks for the feedback all.
I agree that it could be based on some other stat, personally I feel that percentage of tatol kills would be best. All the fluff would fall by the side and it would probably be within 5 percent of the true number.
I used the percentage of fighter kills in by example simply because that data was quickly available thanks to AKDejaVu.