Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: RODBUSTR on August 12, 2017, 10:27:14 AM

Title: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: RODBUSTR on August 12, 2017, 10:27:14 AM
     It would be a good option to have anti armor ammo for the mk103,  That goes for the Yak 9t cannon also,  The NS cannon could pierce  over 2 inches of armor plate at a half a mile,, And yes the "T" stands for tank. the Rhinemetall- Borsig mk 103 could penetrate over 3 inches  of armor at about 1000 feet.  Cart before horse,,,,,,The fw190As and 190Fs used the mk 103 for anti armor duty,  Be nice to have that option for those planes as well,
Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: Zimme83 on August 12, 2017, 11:24:34 AM
Afaik we only have the mk 108 cannon in the game.
Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: Krusty on August 12, 2017, 11:42:19 AM
There was specialized ground attack ammo for the Mk103 but it was only used in ground attack planes that used it -- and most of those used it in very small numbers. Like the Bf110C-6, and the Hs129 that used it for some testing (maybe a little actual combat?).


Currently we have the Mk103s on the Me410, but these were for use against air targets, and as such we have the historical air target ammunition loadout.


The comment has been raised quite a long long time back about the Yak-9T, and the answer was: It didn't carry ground attack rounds in its cannon. It was an air to air cannon. Its intent, design, and use, was to kill enemy aircraft, and that's the ammo it used in WW2. That's why we use that ammo type in this game as well.
Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: RODBUSTR on August 13, 2017, 01:47:52 AM
 The ME410 has a mk 103 package, but the A8 and could and the F8 should,
Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: RODBUSTR on August 13, 2017, 01:50:32 AM
Krusty the  There was a kit for the FW190 As and Fs.
Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: morfiend on August 13, 2017, 02:06:24 PM
Krusty the  There was a kit for the FW190 As and Fs.


  True but was found to be ineffective because it cause issues with the wings! So much recoil it would twist and bend the wings. I might be mistaken but I think the 110C had the Mk101 30 mm gun and if you want firepower then ask for the Bk 3.7 on the 110G,centrally mounted and 66 rounds of ammo.


    :salute
Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: bozon on August 14, 2017, 02:12:34 AM
puny little guns...
Just give me an armor piercing 57mm Mollins totting mosquito and watch tanks cry. :old:
Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: Krusty on August 15, 2017, 02:25:18 PM
The ME410 has a mk 103 package, but the A8 and could and the F8 should,

No, they could not and should not. The Mk103 gunpods were so heavy, large, unwieldly, and had so much asymmetrical force they were not put into service on the Fw190s and were not used in any gunpod in actual combat. They were more dangerous to the pilot than to their target. They were tested briefly and promptly disregarded as a potential weapons loadout.


They did not see action in WW2, and much like many other German things, existed only on paper in a couple of notes somewhere.
Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: Denniss on August 16, 2017, 03:35:58 PM
Both MK 101 and 103 were known for intense recoil forces. There was a reason to mount only one of them on Bf 110 and Hs 129. The Me 410 was bigger and able to absorb recoil forces of two MK 103. This wouldn't work for long on Fw 190s with pods that far out on the wing.
Tungsten core ammo was only used by the Hs 129.
Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: save on August 16, 2017, 07:20:45 PM
Like Krusty said, they where never used for the 190's

Area target cluster bombs where used though.
Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: Krusty on August 17, 2017, 10:06:29 AM
Shrage Muzik was too!

Ooh, ooh, and better bombloadouts for the Me410!

Lots of wishlist items for Luftwaffe planes. Mk103s anti tank rounds aint really one of them.  :x
Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: RODBUSTR on August 24, 2017, 05:10:47 AM
 In regards to the yak9t comment Krusty, There is vid on youtube of soviets using anti armor ammo in  Yak in reality b24s didn't land op9t. It penetrated 2 inches of armor at a half mile.
Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: RODBUSTR on August 24, 2017, 05:31:37 AM
Rustatzs were available and used for both a and f model 190s, wing fatigue was a factor, but they were still utilized.  And concidering the life of a fighter here in the virtual arena is probably less than 3 hops.  seems doable to Me.  Many other less realistic  design and engineering scenarios are presented Here, B24s didn't land on carriers, Lancs didn't do loops and have 500 mph dive speeds. A20s were from doing any "acrobatics or shinanigans". That is a quote from a training film on the A20. 
Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: Krusty on August 24, 2017, 10:14:31 AM
No, they were never utilized. You've got to read up more on things, and remember if the website starts with pinterest it's not a valid source of information.

They were not rutsatz. They were tested but rejected and never went into production or distribution.

The Yak-9T didn't fly with anti-tank rounds. It was only an air-to-air weapon, and AP rounds were useless on aircraft because they would overpenetrate and explode well past the target. All they would do is make a 37mm hole, nothing else. It was the explosion of the HE content of that 37mm round inside confined spaces that ripped metal, shredded fabric or skin, and kill crews. If all you wanted to do was punch holes in it, MGs were fine. HE cannons were what brought down planes.

Here's a tip for you: Some things are misrepresented and there is bad info going around. Sometimes it's sloppy, sometimes it's intentional, or sometimes it's an honest mistake. In the case of the Yak-9T it's a bit of an honest mistake that gets sloppily repeated over and over because nobody checks.

The "T stands for tank because it was an anti tank gun" is nonsense. The actual translation came from a pilot or some Russian individual mentioning that the gun was "as big as a tank's!" purely length-wise. This translation was misunderstood or glossed over and some sloppy author read "tank" and assumed it was a ground attack plane like the IL-2. In fact, larger and larger cannons were being developed before the war to better kill aircraft, NOT tanks. It was a whole mental exercise in refining the time-to-kill for newer, greener pilots, and with tougher aircraft being designed all the time and larger bombers being a threat it was seen as very important. The P-39 was designed with a 37mm as a pure fighter. The P-38 was going to have a 37mm or larger in it before that was dropped. The Yak-9T. All of these are pure air to air fighters and never used anti-tank rounds in their cannons.

Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: nrshida on August 24, 2017, 12:23:44 PM
Here's a tip for you: Some things are misrepresented and there is bad info going around.

Yes that's correct.

Title: Re: ATI ARMOR AMMUNITION FOR THE MK 103 CANNONS & for Nudelman-Suranov NS37
Post by: Denniss on August 29, 2017, 02:27:49 AM
MK 103 gunpods were never used operationally on Fw 190. There was some limited use of twin 20mm gunpods but more in the anti-bomber role than anti-tank.