Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => All things VR => Topic started by: cav58d on August 15, 2017, 11:30:37 AM
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I've been using TrackIR for a little while now and it has TOTALLY changed my game both in skill and fun level. It's immersive, increases situational awareness ten fold and I couldn't imagine playing without it.
But how much better is the oculus rift over the Track IR? Is it worth it?
What I like about the track IR is I can turn off motion when in gv's or gunners positions. I also can use the keyboard which I would imagine to be difficult with the rift.
Thanks!
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The Rift does what TrackIR does but it does it better, albeit without customizable response curves. It also puts you inside the cockpit and inside the arena as opposed to looking at the cockpit and arena on your monitor.
It was worth it when it cost twice as much. It's also awesome for driving sims.
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I have a 1060 3g card, I7-6700 and 16GB of RAM. Will I have any issues running the rift?
How many USB slots does it need?
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Do you have Win10? If you do you can use a lower frame rate card like the 1060. I think you'd be happier with a 1080.
I tried a 1070 and it was OK but I went to a 1080Ti for best performance.
If you get two sensors you'll want 3 USB 3.1 ports. You need at least one USB 3.1 port for best headset performance.
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Do you have Win10? If you do you can use a lower frame rate card like the 1060. I think you'd be happier with a 1080.
I tried a 1070 and it was OK but I went to a 1080Ti for best performance.
If you get two sensors you'll want 3 USB 3.1 ports. You need at least one USB 3.1 port for best headset performance.
I do have Win 10. If there is any question about my 1060 handling it I will just pass, i'm not looking to spend $800-1000 for the rift and a new card.
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that's within the specs for the Rift. You can check it out here and also download a compatibility test from the oculus support site here:
https://support.oculus.com/170128916778795
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Most NVidia cards overclock well, so that should boost the performance.As a matter of fact, most new card manufacturers include or have on their site an overclocking application.
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It all sounds like a pain in the butt.
Where is the rift in its current life cycle? How old is the technology and is there something newer and better on the near horizon?
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The Rift does what TrackIR does but it does it better, albeit without customizable response curves. It also puts you inside the cockpit and inside the arena as opposed to looking at the cockpit and arena on your monitor.
It was worth it when it cost twice as much. It's also awesome for driving sims.
I have an alternative view of VR. Yes it does put you in game and is more immersive even despite the lower graphics quality. BUT, it is a step backward from Trackir when it comes to the ability to track targets. With VR you will need to go back to using hat switches for your tracking vrews especially rear of the 3 to 9 line.
I love VR in car racing games and I dislike it in air combat games. Just know there are two sides to the discussion before you spend hard earned cash. I never use VR in AH anymore, I continue to use Tracir
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I have an alternative view of VR. Yes it does put you in game and is more immersive even despite the lower graphics quality. BUT, it is a step backward from Trackir when it comes to the ability to track targets. With VR you will need to go back to using hat switches for your tracking vrews especially rear of the 3 to 9 line.
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The rear view is not a problem for me, nor the people I have watched use it. We simply turn around and look back. Now, if you are in a chair which does not allow you to turn around and look back, then yes, the rear view is a pain without using the rear view key switch.
I think it is fair to call out to others they need an unobstructed ability to look back in order to get the most out of VR. If you do have that, then VR is superior to TrackIR in its ability to track targets. Take it from someone who has never been able to use TrackIR worth a darn but finds VR to be worlds easier to use.
The biggest issue I have with VR is not being able to comfortably see and use the keyboard.
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Scuzzy, there are many comments from others on the difficulty of aquiring targets to the rear of the aircraft. I am simply trying to offer the OP a more balanced appraisal of VR.
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Was not trying to say your assessment was incorrect, but it read like all users have that issue, when that is not the case.
It really depends on the physical ability to turn around and look back. I know too many people who do not have any trouble looking back. I also people who do have trouble.
High back chairs are an impediment to looking back, as are chairs with large side bolsters. The easiest chairs to aid in looking back are low back and swivel.
In this area, it is easy for a user to test before buying. Just sit in your chair, grab your joystick, and if you cannot turn to look directly behind you without a lot of issues, then you are probably going to have to use the key combination to look back.
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I have both - TrackIR and a Rift. Let me be clear, tracking in IR is very simple for a 2D view on combat. VR immerses the player into the 3D cockpit into a 3D world. And yes, fighter tracking in TrackIR is simpler and easier than VR. But that's it.
And of course, it's all about perception and what you want to get out of a game.
I've gone VR and refuse to fly 2D anymore in Aces High. For me, its the equivalent of coaching a little league game in my home town from the in the dugout vs being a first basemen, Fenway Park, game 7 of the world series. Top of the ninth. Two out. :D
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By the way, I am not pushing VR. I will be the first to say it is not for everyone. It requires more of you physically than other technologies do. The headsets can strain your neck. They get hot. They do not offer the best video resolution. You cannot comfortably see the keyboard, or anything for that matter, when you are wearing the headset.
But it is also a very immersive technology. It puts you in the cockpit like no other tech will.
It is a tradeoff. Everyone has to decide if it is worth it for them.
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I just got back my other Computer, had 1060 Nvidia installed in it. It IS the 6g card though. It runs VR within the same levels as my 1070 computer. No Idea as to how it compares 3 to 6g. In my opinion, if your system can runVR any at all, you will be just as happy as if you spent hundreds more for a slightly better card. No ampount of card size/speed will improve VR as it is currently. The res and other issues folk have, will still be present, so might as well give it a try. Its really a toss up imo, some love it, some tolerate it and other dislike it. If you have the money,jump on in...the water is warm ish :aok
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I have used TrackIR for years. I got just got the Rift a couple of weeks ago. The Rift is really cool. I love the 1:1 tracking and the sense of being in the cockpit. However, the reduction in resolution is a huge step backwards and the FOV limitations mean you have to really crank you head around to check your 6 instead of just rolling your eyes to the rear while looking over one shoulder. I will say that Aces High is still very playable with the Rift thanks to icons. But when I play DCS World, I never use icons. The low resolution of the Rift is like trying to play the game on a 640x480 monitor which greatly reduces visual detection/identification ranges. You can't really see your opponents clearly until you are at very close ranges. While I enjoy the Rift, I would still rather have a large screen with high resolution and TrackIR for air combat simulators.
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I do have Win 10. If there is any question about my 1060 handling it I will just pass, i'm not looking to spend $800-1000 for the rift and a new card.
I think it can handle it, it just won't keep 90 fps with the same settings a 1080 will. The reason I asked about Win10 is that it syncs the Rift with the video card, like G-sync or Freesync does with monitors, so it remains smoother at less than 90 fps that it would with Win7.
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VR in terms of situation awareness is a major step backwards from trackir unless you have a rubber neck. Dive-Bombing in VR is harder than regular AH.
Now that being said, the 3-d, full scale affect of VR is worth the loss of SA. Get a red in front of you and the red will be downed.
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Where is the rift in its lifecycle? It's been around for at least a year or two, right? Is its replacement on the horizon?
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Where is the rift in its lifecycle? It's been around for at least a year or two, right? Is its replacement on the horizon?
VR is not catching on or is just stagnant atm. Alot of price drops. No news on new models yet.
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It is going to be difficult to improve the resolution of the VR headsets as they are tied to the performance of the video card and the current generation of video cards can struggle to keep up now.
There needs to be a major paradigm shift in performance of the video cards if better resolutions are to be had in the VR headsets, all assuming the underlying technology maintains the status quo.
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Thanks everyone. At this point I think I'm just gonna stick with the track ir, I think it's an amazing platform and has enriched my AH experience.
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A M4 was trying to sneak into town yesterday. I got him but it took two drops. With trackir and a P-38L, it would be easy to find and dispatch. With VR, as you go up to setup the run, you lose sight of the tank making you have to find away to remember the tree the tank is hiding under. With trackir, you do your setup and never have to take your eye off the prize. Bombing a hidden tank is about 50% chance with VR and about 90% chance with trackir.
We keep hoping trackir and or HTC will develop a program to supplement VR.
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A M4 was trying to sneak into town yesterday. I got him but it took two drops. With trackir and a P-38L, it would be easy to find and dispatch. With VR, as you go up to setup the run, you lose sight of the tank making you have to find away to remember the tree the tank is hiding under. With trackir, you do your setup and never have to take your eye off the prize. Bombing a hidden tank is about 50% chance with VR and about 90% chance with trackir.
We keep hoping trackir and or HTC will develop a program to supplement VR.
I bet the real life accuracy in WW2 of attack plane bombing was not 100% :grin:
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By the way, I am not pushing VR. I will be the first to say it is not for everyone. It requires more of you physically than other technologies do. The headsets can strain your neck. They get hot. They do not offer the best video resolution. You cannot comfortably see the keyboard, or anything for that matter, when you are wearing the headset.
But it is also a very immersive technology. It puts you in the cockpit like no other tech will.
It is a tradeoff. Everyone has to decide if it is worth it for them.
Skuzzy could you give us an estimate of the number of people using VR in AH3 now? From the posts it appears the number is still increasing. True?
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Has anyone done a rift demo at Best Buy? My local store has one on Saturday. Do you know if they use a flight sim?
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Has anyone done a rift demo at Best Buy? My local store has one on Saturday. Do you know if they use a flight sim?
Since AH is now on the Oculus home app, maybe they would install it for you. You will never understand how immersive it is until you can actually try it.
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Good question, that would help out alot :rock I havent been to see if BestBuy's demo has a monitor for Rifts mirror view, but if they do, its easy to see the difference in resolution and depth of the vr. Even in the Rift Dreamscape program
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For me, VR is comprised of three separate components: 3d, 1:1 tracking, and field of view.
I had tried 3d back in the early 2000's with Aces High 1 thanks to a set of shutter glasses gifted to me. The 3d looked amazing, especially when landing. I could actually judge how close I was to the ground. But it came at a price: half the FPS since it had to paint two different screens for left and right eye and display them alternately. Additionally, the gunsight was focused at the physical distance of the sight glass, so I would see two images when trying to look at a target in the distance. Despite the immersion of 3d, I quickly and easily decided that it wasn't for me. At the time, I had a 1600x1200 monitor with 85Hz refresh. Aces High 1 would run locked at that with vsync. It was beautiful.
The jump from a pov hat to TrackIR is a big one. It takes a week or two to adapt to TrackIR, but the ability to use head movement to look around and free the POV hat for other functions such as trim controls typically found on fighter jets was worth the cost in money, cpu performance, and view stability. I think I actually had better situational awareness with the POV hat: I knew exactly which direction I was looking and the view was rock solid stable. But with a good TrackIR profile, the gunsight view is stable and I can generally keep track of which direction I am looking. But with amplified head movement driving the view direction, it is hard to "padlock" a target smoothly and still be able to easily go from a forward view to an aft view within the angular limits of the monitor and TrackIR.
The Rift really shines in 1:1 tracking of the view. If someone made a device identical to the rift, but with a single 2D screen at 4K resolution, that would be my preference. Forget the 3D until the resolution/gpu power catches up. Give me 1:1 tracking with 4K resolution in 2D. Also, unlike the TrackIR, I don't have to constantly keep re-calibrating the Rift. Once I am flying, it always seems to track my head correctly.
The field of view is something I don't see mentioned much, but is a huge gain. Most people were using three monitors in a horizontal configuration to have a very wide field of view. But in air combat, the vertical field of view is far more important. When I am flying with the Rift, I can see forward and even up quite a bit to track a bandit and still glance down at the gauges with my eyes. With TrackIR, I have to move my head up to follow the target then move my head down to glance at the gauges and hope when I move my head back up that the target is still where I expect him to be. When you fly a helicopter, such as the UH-1H in DCS World, you can easily see where you are going, the panel, and even the view out of the glass at your feet. This allows you to feel the relative motion of the helicopter much better, allowing much more precise control of the helo with very minor corrections on the cyclic stick. It is in the realm of helicopter flight that I am most conflicted with VR vs 2d/TrackIR. It is easy for me to pick 2D/high resolution for dogfighting in fixed wing aircraft, but VR improves the helo experience so much that I think I just might give up the resolution, especially if I am not flying combat missions.
I have been waiting for years for VR to become both affordable and high enough in quality. It is so close. But I think it is still 3 to 10 years from being good enough for me. I have been waiting nearly 20. If you have $400 to spare, the Rift is worth every penny just to preview the state-of-the-art. In Aces High 3, I think VR is 100% acceptable for air-to-air. But in DCS World, I need the resolution more than I need the 3d/1:1 tracking/FOV... except for helicopters.
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Absolutely spot on,ish. I dont have a few of the issues you described, but only because I have grown accustom and forgotten about them. Long story short ;) If you have TIR and thinking about getting the Rift....DONT give you TIR to your buddy! Unless AH is the only game you ever played. :cheers:
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I've been back and forth between both.
I have a 4K monitor so running AH on that with track IR is REALLY nice.
But the Oculus CV1 is much more immersive, the main hang up with it is the poor resolution, which can sometimes put you at a disadvantage in the game.. not to mention how my wife makes fun of me when Im in a dogfight flinging my head around like Stevie Wonder.
Currently I'm messing with the PiMax 4K, it has a much higher picture quality than the Oculus but it is most defiantly a work in progress and far from being as "turn key" as the Oculus is, but the software is getting better and better, its biggest downside is the lack of 6DOF. So im currently trying to figure out a way to use track IR with the pimax but AH is really fighting me on that.
Overall I think VR for sure is the future, and will become the mainstream standard, the timeline on that happening is the only real question.
I think right now the biggest stumbling block is the lack of optimization of VR, currently it takes a very high end machine to reliably run most games in VR, and even then the resolution is very poor.
One option would be to shift some of the workload to the HMD itself or to a pass through device (ala the good ole days of graphics accelerators/3dfx) where basically the headset/device receives the standard video signal and a side stream of the VR data and handles the conversion/rendering itself. it would probably increase the cost of the VR devices, but at least you wouldn't need such high end gear to drive it in the first place.
Another would be a VR "card" that wuld go in the PC itself, its one and only task is crunching VR relevant data.
Obviously I have no idea how the finer points of any of this would work, just guessing.