Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: cav58d on August 25, 2017, 03:00:56 PM
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Beginner
Will be used by myself and my wife.
Home defense and range shooting (no intention of carrying this one)
This is both our first experience with firearms and we want something simple and fun to learn on.
A light slide is important, some of the firearms we have handled at the store/range have had too heavy of a slide for my wife to consistently rack.
9mm to start.
After having handled many 9mm's at the store, I think the Glock 17 and 34 are contenders. The 19 just doesn't feel right in my hands, but luckily the 17/34 frame works for wife.
Only a $50 price difference between the two so that's not a factor. I'm wondering if the increase length of the 34 will show any appreciable difference to a beginner in recoil and accuracy? Any concerns with the cutout of the 34 slide introducing FOD?
Would you recommend one over the other and why? How about something different?
Also, does anyone have any experience with the .22LR conversion slide? Looks like that costs about $300, which is approx same price I could pay for a basic .22 pistol. Is it better to get the conversion slide and train on the same firearm or are the skills the skills the skills and are they just transferable and it would be better getting a stand alone?
Thanks!!!!
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Regarding the G34, it's unlikely a beginner will get much better performance out of the longer barrel, however the longer sight radius can have a pretty surprising effect, a small increase can make a big difference for some eyeballs. What will absolutely have an effect is the trigger on the G34 - it's typically 1 or 2lbs lighter than the connector in the stock factory G17 (Some G34 come with a 4.5, depending when it was made, sometimes a 3.5lb trigger connector weight). The lighter trigger can make a difference for new shooters, particularly women. IMO the slide should be fine for the average woman shooter in terms of the strength required in the grip to cycle it. There are other pistols out there with various dual spring designs, HK comes to mind, which have very light and easy slides to manipulate, but Glock in my experience teaching women shooters are fine in this regard. You can mess around with aftermarket guide rod springs/etc, however there can be negatives to making the slide lighter in this manner, functionality problems/etc, but I have seen this work if it becomes a major issue. It's mostly a technique issue, not a power issue, as I've seen 13 year old girls on the range who were able to properly manipulate every striker fired handgun they tried.
Since you aren't worried about CCW/carry, and this is a home/range only pistol, the G34 is IMO absolutely an option to look at for you. Since it's very unlikely you're going to be in an environment where the cutout on the G34/etc series will get foreign debris in it, I wouldn't sweat that at all.
So far as a .22 kit, they work fine, and are a good way to train cheaply as well for new shooters, women, children, etc. IMO care should be taken with training with .22 if you're expecting your wife to use the 9mm for home defense - what I mean is be sure she doesn't develop a flinch due to anticipating the larger recoil impulse the 9mm has due to being "spoiled" by the non existent push and low noise the .22 has.
Millions have used the G17/34 (and 19 but you've ruled that out) to good effect for what you have in mind, range and in the home as a defensive tool. There are other options of course, other systems such as a double action/single action, and so on, so just find the one that fits your hand(s) best, your budget, and then train/practice with it. In addition to the .22, you may want to look at the various dry fire/laser options out there for the Glock, you can do a lot of great training on your fire control/trigger press indoors at home with one of the laser dry fire units out there.
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As far as .22 pistols go, In my opinion. The Ruger MKIV is hands down the best I have ever owned, close second The Buckmark by Browning. Have 2 of each :rock The Glock is also a favorite of mine. Have the 17 in 9MM(my first) with after market spring and guide for competition. 2 19s in 9mm for carry guns and a Competition Model 35 in .40. Never had a single problem. Of coarse I have to admit...Not sure if I have never met a Fire Arm I didnt fall in love with. Glad Polygamy isnt an issue in the Fire Arms World lol :x Taurus has had a few releases that I also like, never bought one though, Millennium Series. Loved the feel, just talked myself out of it. Old age maybe? Heard "Now what are you gonna use that one for? You only have 2 hands, and you already have 15 pistols!" So I got a Browning X-Bolt in .270 WSM instead. Same issue of coarse, but I was at a Gun Store and wasnt gonna leave with out SOMETHING :devil
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Looks like Glock just announced the release of the generation 5 G17 for August 30th. It's actually not a bad price $560, which is approximately what a current G17 is going for. Typically does this mean the G4 17 will drop in price? I'll happily get the 4th gen if it drops to around $500.
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Taurus 24/7. Lowest recoil 45 acp I've ever shot.
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I would find a range that has rentals
Go there and rent several and try them and then decide what you liked best -grip- recoil - feel -accuracy
Decide if it is for home protection or just range time with the wife.
I purchased my daughter a M&P SHEILD in 9MM but after a few months of shooting he now loves the 1911.
It is intimidating at first but plan for it being a regular thing and do not start off with a pellet gun and have to buy a cannon later. :D
My wife lovers her revolver :bhead NO SLIDE 38 special is good
Me, I have several 1911s but my carry piece is tactical Tupperware I went with the Springfield Armory XD in .40
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That's really the best advice. Everyone has their favorites. You'll find yours.
I would find a range that has rentals
Go there and rent several and try them and then decide what you liked best -grip- recoil - feel -accuracy
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I have a Glock17 Gen 1. I hate that gun . . . You can hold it up to the light and see through it. It is not "pretty." It shoots well, or at least as well as I can. And yet, of all the guns I have ever owned, if I had to choose one to pick up and go... It would be the Glock. It is like planes in the game, find one you like and master it.
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How's the Beretta 9mm? All aluminum, feels solid, doesn't rattle like the Glock did when I looked at it. Grip felt wonderful, no slip with moisture. Felt good, how is the overall quality? Not used to the stacked sights, but I think I can get used to it. Pretty well decided to add a new one, I've had used for so long I want to treat myself but nothing too crazy. Home and Range.
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I own a Glock 21 - which is a LARGE .45 ACP pistol and will tell you it's an impressive pistol. Having owned several 1911 framed pistols including Colt and and Kimber, this handgun outperforms them all.
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I own a Glock 21 - which is a LARGE .45 ACP pistol and will tell you it's an impressive pistol. Having owned several 1911 framed pistols including Colt and and Kimber, this handgun outperforms them all.
Ammo owned several myself including the Colt. I now own a Remington 1911 Carry .45 ACP. Shot great right our of the box. Of the ones I've owned the Remington is the best I've owned.
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a LARGE .45 ACP pistol
I'm a .45 fan, too. But it isn't a good first gun, and it isn't (generally) a good gun for the fairer sex. It almost guarantees you'll develop a flinching problem (especially with the < 5" barrel models) and you won't really want to practice as much as you should.
While I make fun of 9mms as girls' guns - well hey, one of you is a girl! They provide adequate protection with modern ammunition, and they're much easier to shoot well. Tell the wife it's what the Army uses. Don't tell her why.
BTW, don't pass up on an opportunity to buy an inexpensive .22 revolver or pistol for learning how to shoot. Best if it has an adjustable rear sight, but your budget will govern. It is not a good home defense weapon, but it helps you develop good habits.
- oldman
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I have had a Glock 17 and the 19. I never got the 34. My 17 was gen 1 and did fine. I got the 19 as an off duty weapon and found it shot as well as the 17 so I just started carrying it for both on and off duty. The 19 is a gen 2 and I have had several thousand rounds through it. That one will never be sold along with my other duty gun (S&W66), those will be handed down to grandkids. Not because they are special in any way other than those were the ones I staked my life on for many years.
There is a 17L or long slide, that will give you a longer sight radius due to the longer slide and shouldn't hamper the handling of it. After market sights are available and a really good idea for target shooting as the standard sights are more combat oriented. Lighter trigger mods are also available and very easy to install, no gunsmith needed. Tons of utube videos out there about how to do the mod and it is NOT permanent. You can go back to stock in just a couple minutes if you like it better.
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At least handle one walther PPK just to make sure you've checked every option.
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Nambu, obviously. I once used one for EDC. Shot myself in the leg 8 times accidentally. Didn't hurt though. :old:
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The 17L isn't much different than the 34, it's slightly longer bbl @ 6ish" compared to 5.3" of the G34, but it also has the same 4.5# trigger that the 34 has, and the same adjustable sights. The first generations of the 17L (I have 2) came with a lighter trigger disconnect, they were 3.5# back then, as were some of the original 34/35 triggers, and as Mav said, there are dozens of aftermarket trigger options that are easy peasy to install. The current stock 34 triggers are pretty decent at 4.5 though, so far as decent goes with a striker fired pistol that has a safety mech incorporated into its trigger.
The OP has said in previous thread's that he's tried out other pistols, and in this one he's asking specifically about the Glocks. Yes, there are many other options, but deciding on a Glock is never a poor choice, or the wrong one, millions of shooters use them, including all kinds of specialty units and competition shooters. I'm not sure why everyone is still offering opinions on other stuff - PPK for example, isn't even a 9mm pistol, it's s .380, and due to that plus very limited capacity, plus cost, makes it more of a backup CCW pistol or specialty item, then what the OP is looking for.
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I'm not sure why everyone is still offering opinions on other stuff
It's called a conversation. It's not always going to follow the rules you expect it to follow.
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I'm not sure why everyone is still offering opinions on other stuff
I'm just joking around brah. You know I carry a Webley–Fosbery 380 in full automatic.
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It's called a conversation. It's not always going to follow the rules you expect it to follow.
My point is that he's coming to a focused decision on what he wants, obviously, since he's stated it, and is asking specific questions about one make and a couple of models within that manufacturer. The previous thread he started recently was where all the discussion of other options already happened - why repeat that when he's obviously closed in on a decision, and wants specific advice on a specific firearm? If that's what Cav was looking for, wouldn't his thread title be "still not decided on which handgun to buy", and then go on to explain which he had it down to in his first post?
On the other hand, you're right Roc, others including yourself were asking about other options, and I missed that before I posted, and it's obviously not just the OP or anyone's thread, it should be for everyone.
If you're looking to get a Beretta, I would strongly recommend checking out the Wilson Combat models. They incorporate a decocker instead of the standard safety, which is awful, and very easily goes on to "safe" when you manipulate the slide on a standard 92/96. A lot of other mods too, they are about $1000 USD, but if you want the best Beretta 92/96 model out there, that will last, they are the one to get IMO. IIRC the stopped making one of the models, but still have the 92G, which has the decocker/etc. It also is made of a lot better materials, the regular Beretta 92F/etc typically failed due to the locking lugs shearing off, the barrel/slide is much, much better on the Wilson models.
A bit more $ than a standard 92/96/etc, but when you see how much they put into it, when you can find these for $1000 looking around, they look like a bargain. There was a new one on Gunbroker for $900 a couple days ago.
https://www.wilsoncombat.com/berettawilson-92g-brigadier-tactical/
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I have a Glock 19 that I have shot only a few times as it stays
in a safe hopefully to only come out it in extreme emergency.
In the Navy I carried a .45 when on watch and went through
qualification with it
I prefer the Glock !
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I understand your point completely Gman, regarding his making a decision and not straying from the subject.
However...
After having handled many 9mm's at the store, I think the Glock 17 and 34 are contenders. The 19 just doesn't feel right in my hands, but luckily the 17/34 frame works for wife.
Only a $50 price difference between the two so that's not a factor. I'm wondering if the increase length of the 34 will show any appreciable difference to a beginner in recoil and accuracy? Any concerns with the cutout of the 34 slide introducing FOD?
Would you recommend one over the other and why? How about something different?
When I read the two models were contenders, that suggested they were in the running as an option, not the only two options. That, backed up by the last line "how about something different?" opened up everyone else offering up their suggestions on..well..something different :)
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That's really the best advice. Everyone has their favorites. You'll find yours.
Ditto and Kanth's advice is spot on. Take it for a test drive before you decide.
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I'm a .45 fan, too. But it isn't a good first gun, and it isn't (generally) a good gun for the fairer sex. It almost guarantees you'll develop a flinching problem (especially with the < 5" barrel models) and you won't really want to practice as much as you should.
While I make fun of 9mms as girls' guns - well hey, one of you is a girl! They provide adequate protection with modern ammunition, and they're much easier to shoot well. Tell the wife it's what the Army uses. Don't tell her why.
BTW, don't pass up on an opportunity to buy an inexpensive .22 revolver or pistol for learning how to shoot. Best if it has an adjustable rear sight, but your budget will govern. It is not a good home defense weapon, but it helps you develop good habits.
- oldman
Good advice right there
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Hey Gman you still at Sig Sauer?
Great write up and he's got some great advice Cav
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I'm still on file as an adjunct instructor @ the Sig Academy, they keep a list of everyone certified in their system so long as you keep up with the rules so far as re-qualification goes, but I'm not actively working or instructing right now.
There are always options, but IMO for a new shooter and a first time semi auto 9/40/45/357Sig type buyer, there are a whole lot of good options, so many that making a "bad" choice is actually difficult. There are 5 major factors in hand shape so far as how it fits a handgun, and most will find a size/angle/etc that just "fits", but there are many factors other than comfort which go into how well x y or z will shoot for you. Again, for a newer shooter, just getting any of the "majors" and starting out is better than spending months agonizing over minutiae and small details. Glock, Sig, Smith, even Cannik now, etc etc - find one you and your wife/etc if they're involved both like, and start training and shooting it. Indoor dry fire tools are excellent now too as before.
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Lots of great tips! I figured alot of us might share in other experiences besides Aces High. Its pretty cool to know this about you guys! I really fell in love with the Glocks. I remember what the gun store guy, where i first browsed a carry fire arm. He showed me a Glock that he was selling for a guy. I was looking hard at the Beretta...He said "Now she aint gonna win no beauty contests, Son. What she offers is comfort that she will be there when you need her. Besides, if you ever do need her, looks are irrelevant. No bad guy is gonna say "Oh,**** thats a pretty gun". They will be saying" Holy crap, thats a gun!!" If they do notice the model, they can give up now, as she will come through with flying colors." In my experience, they are like the AK-47 of handguns, you can pretty much put them trough any think out there, and they still perform.
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I'll just reiterate what others have said.
Don't buy a gun based on what other people like or use, buy a gun that fits and works for you. Everyone out there has different hand shapes, finger lengths, skinny or fat palms etc... What works fantastic for your buddy you may struggle with, and the thing is you might not even know it, if that's the only thing you've tried.
You may pick up a Glock, and check out how it feels and how ergonomic the controls are for you, and say "Yea, this works." and it would work. But later you might pick up something else and go, "Wow, this is so much better I didn't know what I was missing." So try as many different guns as you can before you decide, or be like some of us and just buy them all.
My personal example goes like this. I can shoot Glocks OK, but never liked the ergonomics and grip angle. For years I carried a XDm, and much preferred it to Glocks. Then one day I had a chance to shoot a CZ SP-01 and fell in love with it, so now I carry a CZ, except for when I carry a 1911. Because of course the 1911 as bestowed upon us by his great prophet John Moses Browning is the firearms gods most holy of holy creations. The only reason I don't carry a 1911 more often is magazine capacity.
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Lots of great tips! I figured alot of us might share in other experiences besides Aces High. Its pretty cool to know this about you guys! I really fell in love with the Glocks. I remember what the gun store guy, where i first browsed a carry fire arm. He showed me a Glock that he was selling for a guy. I was looking hard at the Beretta...He said "Now she aint gonna win no beauty contests, Son. What she offers is comfort that she will be there when you need her. Besides, if you ever do need her, looks are irrelevant. No bad guy is gonna say "Oh,**** thats a pretty gun". They will be saying" Holy crap, thats a gun!!" If they do notice the model, they can give up now, as she will come through with flying colors." In my experience, they are like the AK-47 of handguns, you can pretty much put them trough any think out there, and they still perform.
The whole Glock reliability thing is really over-hyped, especially in today's market. There are at least a dozen manufacturers of handguns today who can claim as good or better reliability as Glock.
Glocks are great, but don't discount another handgun that you like because it's "not a Glock, and will fail" that's just dumb. From what I've read about the NATO testing that the CZ P-01 I carry went through, I have no doubt of it's reliability and durability. Same could be said for the Army testing that they put their new Sig P320 through. (though they have some drop safe issues that have come to light now.) Heck if you want the ultimate durability and reliability, I think it'd be hard to top a good old double action revolver.
The only real handgun lemons when it comes to reliability and durability that I've heard of in the last decade is the Remington R51, and RP9... so yea, I'd stay away from striker fired Remingtons, almost everything else I can think of have been good.
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The whole Glock reliability thing is really over-hyped, especially in today's market. There are at least a dozen manufacturers of handguns today who can claim as good or better reliability as Glock.
Glocks are great, but don't discount another handgun that you like because it's "not a Glock, and will fail" that's just dumb. From what I've read about the NATO testing that the CZ P-01 I carry went through, I have no doubt of it's reliability and durability. Same could be said for the Army testing that they put their new Sig P320 through. (though they have some drop safe issues that have come to light now.) Heck if you want the ultimate durability and reliability, I think it'd be hard to top a good old double action revolver.
The only real handgun lemons when it comes to reliability and durability that I've heard of in the last decade is the Remington R51, and RP9... so yea, I'd stay away from striker fired Remingtons, almost everything else I can think of have been good.
Absolutely! My Glock experience I was talking about was in 1988,when they were really just starting to get recognition. I had never heard of them at the time,and was the only one in that gun store. I stayed with Glock references, for the sake of the OPs inquiry. I own CZ,Taurus, Beretta,Ruger, Smith and Wesson, Sig Sauer and a 1860 Remington New Army .44 cap and ball-replica of coarse :x The gun safe said 62 capacity,not much wasted space but it will hold more than 62 :x I dont believe I have ever held a gun I DIDNT fall in love with. Just for information purposes....if you like Lever Actions, DO NOT-EVER pick up a Henry(especially if you have you checkbook with you) Trust me on that one :aok Come to think about it, the only guns I ever sold was a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44mag, and A Thompson Contender 30-06. Just wasnt a JOY in pulling the trigger :old:
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I got a Sig .45. I was rather surprised how low the recoil was on it. Very enjoyable to shoot.
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If you have the chance, definitely try the Smith and Wesson M&P 9. I find it much more comfortable and easy to shoot accurately than the Glocks. The Glock grip just feels all wrong to me, mostly because of the angle. YMMV. Both are very well-made and reliable guns.
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Absolutely! My Glock experience I was talking about was in 1988,when they were really just starting to get recognition. I had never heard of them at the time,and was the only one in that gun store. I stayed with Glock references, for the sake of the OPs inquiry. I own CZ,Taurus, Beretta,Ruger, Smith and Wesson, Sig Sauer and a 1860 Remington New Army .44 cap and ball-replica of coarse :x The gun safe said 62 capacity,not much wasted space but it will hold more than 62 :x I dont believe I have ever held a gun I DIDNT fall in love with. Just for information purposes....if you like Lever Actions, DO NOT-EVER pick up a Henry(especially if you have you checkbook with you) Trust me on that one :aok Come to think about it, the only guns I ever sold was a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44mag, and A Thompson Contender 30-06. Just wasnt a JOY in pulling the trigger :old:
HAHA I own a Henry Guide Gun in 45-70 that I enjoy. I love the way that firearm feels launching 405 grain slugs. I have read all the comments from the purists about the tube loaded magazine but that didn't bother me. I handled a Marlin too.. the Henry's fit and finish is far better than the Marlin
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If you have the chance, definitely try the Smith and Wesson M&P 9. I find it much more comfortable and easy to shoot accurately than the Glocks. The Glock grip just feels all wrong to me, mostly because of the angle. YMMV. Both are very well-made and reliable guns.
When I was looking at sub-compact 9mms I was checking out a Glock, didn't like the feel in my hand, and just looked at the dealer who said something to the effect of "feels like a 2x4, doesn't it?". He captured it perfectly. I went with a Ruger SR9c, which has at least so far proved to be 100% reliable, except on rare occasion with cheap ammo. Feels very good in my hand, especially with the 17 round mag.
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If you have the chance, definitely try the Smith and Wesson M&P 9. I find it much more comfortable and easy to shoot accurately than the Glocks. The Glock grip just feels all wrong to me, mostly because of the angle. YMMV. Both are very well-made and reliable guns.
That is my carry gun. It fits perfect for me when out and about. Doesn't have the capacity of a bigger pistol like a Glock17 (or 21 in my case) but so easy to carry without a problem.
There is a reason the M&P shield 9MM is the best selling pistol on the market today
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I'll just reiterate what others have said.
Don't buy a gun based on what other people like or use, buy a gun that fits and works for you. Everyone out there has different hand shapes, finger lengths, skinny or fat palms etc... What works fantastic for your buddy you may struggle with, and the thing is you might not even know it, if that's the only thing you've tried.
You may pick up a Glock, and check out how it feels and how ergonomic the controls are for you, and say "Yea, this works." and it would work. But later you might pick up something else and go, "Wow, this is so much better I didn't know what I was missing." So try as many different guns as you can before you decide, or be like some of us and just buy them all.
My personal example goes like this. I can shoot Glocks OK, but never liked the ergonomics and grip angle. For years I carried a XDm, and much preferred it to Glocks. Then one day I had a chance to shoot a CZ SP-01 and fell in love with it, so now I carry a CZ, except for when I carry a 1911. Because of course the 1911 as bestowed upon us by his great prophet John Moses Browning is the firearms gods most holy of holy creations. The only reason I don't carry a 1911 more often is magazine capacity.
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I can fix that mag capacity on the .45. I own a Paraordnance P14 LDA. I love that gun. And Maverick, you young whippersnapper... My first duty gun was a S&W Model 10 .38 Special with full metal round nose ammo. In an ammo plant!!! I thought, if I have to shoot this, I will just point at a pallet and we will all blow up!
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Thanks for the responses everyone, I really appreciate the input. A couple things worth mentioning.
I live in Connecticut, so a larger or full size firearm has no ammunition benefit over a smaller for me. Limited by law to 10 round magazines.
At first I thought I would NEVER carry, but the more I'm learning, not saying I will carry right away, but there are situations where I could see myself wanting to in the future. Crummy thing about Connecticut is the State doesn't allow firearms in State Parks, and my town doesn't allows them in local parks. My GSD and I spend a lot of time in those places, but oh well.
So at first I thought the Glock 19 was too smal. Went out yesterday and spent some more time with it and put 100 rounds through it and it really grew on me. Surprisingly I liked the way it felt over the 17. I am going to wait to try the Gen 5 next to see if grooveless feels better.
Glock is priced right for our first firearm. I don't want to spend $1k right off the bat because we still need a two decent pairs of ear protection, gunsafe, cleaning supplies, ammo etc. I actually just joined the Glock GSSF and am waiting on a membership discount coupon to arrive. $60 for two year membership which entitles me to discount. G17/19 Gen 4 $425 (retails $550). So in the first year spend $60 to save $65, and if I get another nest year even more savings.
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Glock 20 and M&P Shield in 9 mm here. In NY so screwed by Safe Act. :mad:
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Speaking of older Glocks, I purchased my first one in 1994, a 1st Gen G21. When you loaded more than 7 rounds of .45 into either of the magazines that came with it from the factory, they would barely insert, and certainly wouldn't drop. When loaded with 10 rounds they bulged enough to make inserting them fully impossible. So much for "perfection" was my thought back then, after buying 5 more magazines and having the same result, and having to tediously manually grind down the plastic on the magazine little by little with all 7 to finally get them to function properly. This was early days of the internet, but the newsgroups had others with the same problem, I wouldn't call it common, but it wasn't unheard of either with the Gen 1 .45s. I really liked it after the mag issue was taken care of, superbly reliable, I was primarily a 1911 shooter up until that point, and my first double stack tupperware pistol had probably less than 2 or 3 stoppages that I didn't set up in thousands of rounds.
Speaking of new Glocks, the Gen5 reviews are coming out for the 17 and 19 - looks like they deleted the finger grooves, moved the texturing that is normally on the front of the grip to the sides as well, added an ambi slide release (the left side of the slide release sticks out about 1mm further than the right, making left handed slide release manipulation easier), and changed the rifling in the 9mm G17 to their "target barrel" instead of the previous hexagonal or whatever they called it.
Glad you're getting it all figured out Cav, happy to see you planning for costs beyond just the first handgun too, extra magazines, ammunition, etc, it all adds up fast.
I own a Paraordnance P14 LDA
Para was originally a Canadian company, we wold a lot of their stuff back in the early 2000s when I ran my shop/range up here, and I used a single stack Para 1911 with the LDA trigger in order to use it in IDPA (the LDA trigger didn't qualify as a single action trigger so you could shoot production with it).
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I got a Para P16 (40 S&W) double stack. Fits my hand pretty well and turned out to be the most accurate (non 22) handgun I have ever had. Makes producing very tiny groups easy with the sights they installed. Very happy with it.
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HAHA I own a Henry Guide Gun in 45-70 that I enjoy. I love the way that firearm feels launching 405 grain slugs. I have read all the comments from the purists about the tube loaded magazine but that didn't bother me. I handled a Marlin too.. the Henry's fit and finish is far better than the Marlin
YUP! You worked the action and fell in love! I always had a love for Lever guns, being a Louis L"Amour fan(Own every book he wrote). Have my Great Uncles .32 Win Special and an Browning BL22 and Marlin Model 39a,also my Uncles. When I picked up the Henry though, it was like butter :x Had to have it!
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Speaking of older Glocks, I purchased my first one in 1994, a 1st Gen G21. When you loaded more than 7 rounds of .45 into either of the magazines that came with it from the factory, they would barely insert, and certainly wouldn't drop. When loaded with 10 rounds they bulged enough to make inserting them fully impossible. So much for "perfection" was my thought back then, after buying 5 more magazines and having the same result, and having to tediously manually grind down the plastic on the magazine little by little with all 7 to finally get them to function properly. This was early days of the internet, but the newsgroups had others with the same problem, I wouldn't call it common, but it wasn't unheard of either with the Gen 1 .45s. I really liked it after the mag issue was taken care of, superbly reliable, I was primarily a 1911 shooter up until that point, and my first double stack tupperware pistol had probably less than 2 or 3 stoppages that I didn't set up in thousands of rounds.
Speaking of new Glocks, the Gen5 reviews are coming out for the 17 and 19 - looks like they deleted the finger grooves, moved the texturing that is normally on the front of the grip to the sides as well, added an ambi slide release (the left side of the slide release sticks out about 1mm further than the right, making left handed slide release manipulation easier), and changed the rifling in the 9mm G17 to their "target barrel" instead of the previous hexagonal or whatever they called it.
Glad you're getting it all figured out Cav, happy to see you planning for costs beyond just the first handgun too, extra magazines, ammunition, etc, it all adds up fast.
Para was originally a Canadian company, we wold a lot of their stuff back in the early 2000s when I ran my shop/range up here, and I used a single stack Para 1911 with the LDA trigger in order to use it in IDPA (the LDA trigger didn't qualify as a single action trigger so you could shoot production with it).
Think that was a round the whole line issue with the Gen 1s. My 17 in 9mm wouldnt drop with a full mag either. Seemed like rnds 16 and 17 caused the spring to buldge the magazine walls a bit? No big deal to me, If 16 rounds wasnt enough, I shouldnt be there anyway :eek:
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My Granddad had a Win 94 in 32 Spcl. Very cool gun, wish Dad had kept it. He didn't like it because of a couple of incidents of accidental firing when going to half-cock.
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The S&W M&P line is a decent alternative to Glocks if you don't like the feel of Glocks.
Years ago I set out to buy a Glock 21 and came home with a .45 M&P.
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Blue Label/GSSF pricing gets me the Gen 5 with Ameriglow night sights for $465. Hell of a deal IMO.
Man are the fives ugly though. The finger grips of previous gens at least gave somewhat better lines, if the gen 5 were a shoe it would be the plain/simple all black rebook that airline pilots and cops wear! Hehe
(https://preview.ibb.co/m2NC8a/IMG_7642.png) (https://ibb.co/ihkAuF)
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A lot of negative reviews on the Gen 5 for sure. They are ugly, I agree, they just chopped out parts of the front slide, without changing the design of the polymer frame to match it, so the pistol looks like it has a giant underbite or something. On top of that, they are completely inconsistent, put 10 G17 or G19 Gen 5 up beside one another, and none of them have the same size cut out, it's ridiculous, and that's far from the only complaint or issue. Many or coming with the rear sights WAY out of position, yes, it's no major thing to just move them, but many shooters don't have the tools or experience to do this properly as well. Some of the changes aren't bad, removing the finger grooves, the new barrel, and perhaps even the ambi slide release, but the rest of the stuff isn't very popular right now so far as the "gun" media goes.