Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Slade on August 26, 2017, 09:57:05 AM
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A question to HiTech or you long time vets...
All things being equal (pilot skill etc.), which turns better below 10k: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25?
Thanks,
Slade :salute
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So close that it's a draw, it will depend on energy states beginning the turn, or what loadout and how much fuel one or the other had on board. The no-flap turn radius difference was 10 feet once upon a time, and the full-flaps was all of about 20 feet.
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How about acceleration? The d40 once light tho isnt thaaat bad :)
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I like the D25, it just "feels" lighter and quick to respond than the others. Just like the 38J vs 38L. Numbers are so close that it doesnt matter much but the J "feels" so much lighter and responsive to me.
I think its going to be pilot skill that puts one over the other. Even the same pilot will fly them a bit differently, and can make that difference in performance.
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D40 has a bit better WEP (100 more HP or so).
D25 turns better because it has prettier skins.
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I like the D25, it just "feels" lighter and quick to respond than the others. Just like the 38J vs 38L. Numbers are so close that it doesnt matter much but the J "feels" so much lighter and responsive to me.
I think its going to be pilot skill that puts one over the other. Even the same pilot will fly them a bit differently, and can make that difference in performance.
For these tests, you eliminate all variables.
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For these tests, you eliminate all variables.
But that is what Im saying I fly a 25 different than I fly the 40. Same pilot, different fight.
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if pilot A took just 2 minutes longer to enter the fight that's enough to sway the fight in one way or another. They're that close that you couldn't practically control the variables.
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I've dueled for hours d25vd40. I've found very little difference between the two. It will come down to the pilot pretty much every time.
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I've dueled for hours d25vd40. I've found very little difference between the two. It will come down to the pilot pretty much every time.
...somehow...I know how that comes out, Yucca.
- oldman
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I wonder how different the actual planes were. The fillet added to the vert stab must have remedied some lateral stability issue from the D-25.
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As noted. Very similar in a dogfight. D-25 is a little lighter and will get around on a D-40 in a sustained flat turn...eventually. D-40 has a bit more HP and will hang on the prop a fraction longer. D-40 seems a bit more stable. If you're not overly familiar with P-47s, you probably won't notice any difference. In close quarters combat with equal pilots and E states, its just a coin flip.
If you're a turn and burn guy, you'll might prefer the 25. ZnB maybe the 40.
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I wonder how different the actual planes were. The fillet added to the vert stab must have remedied some lateral stability issue from the D-25.
Often times in WW2 the progression of a variant doesn't mean there has to be improved performance. Sometimes you lose performance but for a good reason. In real life they weren't all just about the virtual numbers. :D
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Krusty, the fillet was not there to "improve" performance but to remedy an existing or potential issue in lateral stability caused by the reduced fuselage area when the bubble-top replaced the razorback. The only question is whether this difference in stability was noticeable by the pilots, and if so, which type was thought to have a less restrictive flight envelope. It is entirely possible that Jug pilots could have thought that the D-25 was more responsive because it was less stable in the tail and thought it advantageous.
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Devil: Yes, I got that. Just the way you worded it sounded like you expected there to be more of a result. No worries.
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I wonder if the veteran P-47 players automatically compensate their flying techniques when they switch from a 25 to a 40? So automatic, it makes the planes seem very close when compared.
I had posted some time ago the difference between the P-38J and L. The J was lighter feeling. ACK-ACK countered saying there was no difference. After spending so much time in the two 38s, I would say they do seem equal but I think not from my first impressions.
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Randy. I adjust my style for two of the Jugs (D-11 & N). The rest I basically fly the same.
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Randy. I adjust my style for two of the Jugs (D-11 & N). The rest I basically fly the same.
What do you mean? Would you explain how?
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What do you mean? Would you explain how?
Well the D-11 is more light on its feet for a P-47 so it turns better. But it doesn't have the paddle prop so it accelerates and climbs slower. My fights in it generally are flatter than the others. I'll usually try to get a better head of steam going before I enter combat because E is harder to recover. Plus feels like it holds its speed a little longer. The razorback is a little more aerodynamic I guess.
Aside from roll, the N just feels like it's stuck in the mud. I'm more careful with it than the others. It's almost as fast as the M but it's considerably heavier to accommodate all the fuel and bigger wings. So it accelerates even slower and climbs like a pig when the WEP is gone.
Most of this is just gutt feeling. I don't have any real numbers to back this up. Just opinion.
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I used to really enjoy dogfighting in the P47D-11. No one expected it to be the turn-and-burn fighter that it was. Half of what made it so good was the shear surprise of mixing it up with Spits and N1k2s. Of course while it turned better than the -25 and -40, one still had to use superior tactics to kill said Spitfire or N1K2. I had a positive kill to death ratio in it. At such close range, a snapshot with 8 .50s would disintegrate an enemy fighter. Half the battle was spent with the stall horn blaring, using massive rudder inputs to get the nose pointed where you wanted to go, and waiting for the plane to reach flying speed again.
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Thanks LilMak! I tried the N tonight on a dive bombing sorte. It felt very slow to climb, made me worry that I'd chosen a field far to close, even 2 sectors away! It did feel more stable in the dive and handled the speed well, I thought, near compression. For me in a fight with a Niki it felt sluggish but I could get away to reset and or rtb.
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Randy. I adjust my style for two of the Jugs (D-11 & N). The rest I basically fly the same.
The N is one of those love hate things. Got some great qualities but . . .
There wass a player in the past that had mastered the N but I cannot remember who.
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Be minded about the amount of fuel you carry in the N. 100% internal is a whopping 550 galons - about 5 times the fuel load of a 109!
The M and D models are also flying fuel tankers, though a bit less extreme since the are missing the fuel tanks in the wings. It is important to learn to fly with less internal fuel and extend the good "light time" as much as possible.
Another note regarding "N" - the wings were extended from the roots. This means that the guns moved even farther apart that in tye other jugs and convergence is an even bigger issue. I swear that you can fit an entire Yak3 beween the guns, so when you fire at it from point blanc range, the bullets pass harmlessly on both sides.