General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mthrockmor on September 03, 2017, 12:01:54 PM
Title: Graphics and our community
Post by: mthrockmor on September 03, 2017, 12:01:54 PM
We know two things: 1, AH3 has much better graphics; 2, a substantial percentage of our community didn't follow us to AH3, mostly due to inadequate computers.
Would it be possible to allow a graphics control in-game that would dial it all the way down to AH2 levels? If so, our audience would increase significantly.
A note, I strongly suspect our audience is older geeks. If I remember correctly, a few years ago a survey was done and the average age was roughly 47. Older folks use computers for the basics, and likely only play a few games, thus upgrading just to play AH3 doesn't make sense. And the younger crowd that is happy to upgrade on a monthly basis, they know little about WW2, play dozens of arcade games and don't seem as interested in intense simulations, such as AH3. Our demographic is aging, and slowly dying out, though we may have also inadvertently moved them out due to the computer upgrades.
Thoughts?
boo
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: The Fugitive on September 03, 2017, 12:08:11 PM
Its not so much "dumbing down" the graphics, I think the issue is HOW they render the game now. AH2 most of the load was on the CPU so you could get by with a crappy video card. AH3 uses the graphics card much more. While you can still cut back on the graphics in the game you still need a decent graphics card to run it.
I dont think they have much of an option in this. It is what it is.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: Slate on September 03, 2017, 12:16:04 PM
I could have bought a basic cheap set of new golf clubs instead of my graphics card and have always needed to upgrade computers anyway. We all spend on the hobby of choice. I stink at golf and am slightly better at Aces High. :ahand
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: perdue3 on September 03, 2017, 12:22:37 PM
We know two things: 1, AH3 has much better graphics; 2, a substantial percentage of our community didn't follow us to AH3, mostly due to inadequate computers.
Would it be possible to allow a graphics control in-game that would dial it all the way down to AH2 levels? If so, our audience would increase significantly.
A note, I strongly suspect our audience is older geeks. If I remember correctly, a few years ago a survey was done and the average age was roughly 47. Older folks use computers for the basics, and likely only play a few games, thus upgrading just to play AH3 doesn't make sense. And the younger crowd that is happy to upgrade on a monthly basis, they know little about WW2, play dozens of arcade games and don't seem as interested in intense simulations, such as AH3. Our demographic is aging, and slowly dying out, though we may have also inadvertently moved them out due to the computer upgrades.
Thoughts?
boo
I disagree with most of this post. This game is far from rigorous on graphics and a rig can be pieced together for about $250 from scratch to play AH3 more than adequately. Secondly, you must define "younger guys." I consider myself a younger guy, especially given the average age, and know quite a bit about WW2. I can speak for most of my squadron, which is made up of plenty of twenty-somethings, when I say we all consider ourselves history hobbyists. Only the hardcore aviation enthusiasts play this game. Many of which have pilot licenses.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: Bizman on September 03, 2017, 12:50:11 PM
Fugi is right, it's about how the game, or actually most any modern game works. The graphics card has got the major role of doing graphics and other stuff that's involved with it.
Back in the day when video games were new solid coloured blocks was enough. Think about PacMan or Tetris, which used only a handful of standard colours. They ran well on office computers and office workers played them a lot! An office wide Tetris competition may not have been too productive...
Games in a 3D world added the need of shadows and direction of light but the surfaces were still 2D images on a glass smooth surface. A furry monster looked like having a hair pattern wallpaper glued onto its skin. G.I. Joe had the six pack painted on his belly. You get the picture.
Now we're talking about things we previously could see in computer animated movies. Each hair of the hairy monster is an individual moving element, each detail having a realistic shadow and glow depending of the light and angle. Some details can be turned off but the tool which produces them can't be changed in the fly. That's also why office computers no longer can run modern cinematic games.
For the cost, if you had a gaming oriented system to start with, the upgrade needed didn't have to cost much. My 8 year old PC runs AH3 at a solid 60 FPS on default settings after I upgraded the video card to a second hand GTX970. $150 shouldn't be an issue for most of those who can afford the monthly fee for the game.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: hitech on September 03, 2017, 05:32:40 PM
We know two things: 1, AH3 has much better graphics; 2, a substantial percentage of our community didn't follow us to AH3, mostly due to inadequate computers.
You know no such thing ,because it is no true.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: mthrockmor on September 03, 2017, 05:35:46 PM
So all of the dozens of comments about not being able to upgrade, bon voyage has nothing to do with numbers decline dramatically? It's all just coincidence?
Fascinating
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: Lazerr on September 03, 2017, 05:38:02 PM
Time to move on... only regulars from the old days will pay 14.95 to play that old stuff.
I see where you are coming from.. but putting the game on steam is a sign of what direction we are going.
Im on board.
Some tweaks to gameplay and UI are needed, .. but thats just my opinion.
I still really enjoy flying with the guys i do.. and i encourage all groups to adopt a noob and show him a good time... i think a lot of us are addicted for that very reason.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: Lusche on September 03, 2017, 05:42:46 PM
So all of the dozens of comments about not being able to upgrade, bon voyage has nothing to do with numbers decline dramatically? It's all just coincidence?
Fascinating
The numbers had been declining for years. There was no sudden 'dramatical' drop with the transition to AH3. You may just have noticed the lack of players more, which may be for several reasons.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: madrid311 on September 03, 2017, 05:45:15 PM
I have a aspire e 15 with a nividia GeForce 940 m with 2 gb of dedicatd ram and I cant play on it live. I can practice but even that is slow. my desktop is a 1200.00 asus and it rocks. no problems there. so it does matter that you have a better card. I'm hoping to be able to change the graphics card to a better one so I can play on my laptop I bought to take when I'm on location at work. Its 2 years old. peace
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: RufusLeaking on September 03, 2017, 06:05:01 PM
I have a aspire e 15 with a nividia GeForce 940 m with 2 gb of dedicatd ram and I cant play on it live. I can practice but even that is slow. my desktop is a 1200.00 asus and it rocks. no problems there. so it does matter that you have a better card. I'm hoping to be able to change the graphics card to a better one so I can play on my laptop I bought to take when I'm on location at work. Its 2 years old. peace
I play on an MSI GP70 2QF Leopard Pro (reading the sticker) with an NVidia GTX950M. It will run AH3 at 60 fps solid.
I, too, got it to play from the road. It became obvious immediately that hotels' internet speeds suck. Beware.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: Arlo on September 03, 2017, 06:50:06 PM
So all of the dozens of comments about not being able to upgrade, bon voyage has nothing to do with numbers decline dramatically? It's all just coincidence?
Fascinating
There were players who said they were going to quit the game due to pending upgrades long before the transition who never even tried the beta. And they convinced other players that they'll never be able to afford the upgrades that AHIII will 'obviously' require. Furthermore .... there are some of the old players that quit playing long before that because they wanted the game graphics improved (personally, I'm more the game/sim elements outside the graphics since I thought AHII graphics were fine) that are coming back or planning to.
I needed a better graphics card, anyway. My old one would have worked. My new one? My step-son had a spare. I could've bought it for little more than a couple of c-notes.
Hopefully the cryptocurrency boom will soon implode and graphics card prices will fall dramatically. I suspect it's getting to be about time.....
No, won't crash, we'll soon get rfid chip implants and upload the 666 mark , i mean cryptocurencies, ; Btc was 600$ one year ago, 4583$ now, no signs of slowing. https://www.coindesk.com/price/
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: icepac on September 03, 2017, 09:04:10 PM
They're trickling back in once they get a new system.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: SAJ73 on September 04, 2017, 01:53:58 AM
I got a Nvidia GTX 1060 something.. (not a computer geek) Seems to run AH quite steady though, solid 60 frps with mostly every eyecandy turned up and on.
Sent fra min SM-G935F via Tapatalk
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: Bizman on September 04, 2017, 02:28:21 AM
They're trickling back in once they get a new system.
If not, they're not into computer games anyway.
It's somewhat sad to see the occasional lack of rational thinking. By this I mean people who apparently can't understand that there's a reason for the price gap between a $250 laptop vs. a $2500 gaming rig. There's been arguments like "this is a brand new computer" connected to a lack of game performance. "New" isn't a synonym for "powerful" as well as "old" would mean the same as "incapable". A late 60's Shelby Mustang would still outperform a brand new Ka despite both being Fords. But I wouldn't take a Fiat 600 to the German Autobahn any more.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: Adjuster on September 04, 2017, 04:50:46 AM
A note, I strongly suspect our audience is older geeks. If I remember correctly, a few years ago a survey was done and the average age was roughly 47. Older folks use computers for the basics, and likely only play a few games, thus upgrading just to play AH3 doesn't make sense.
Well I fit the demographic being 50, but how dare you describe me /us as older :huh :old: I am in my absolute prime, aside from the aching joints, need for glasses to read, grey hair..... I have just returned and due to, change of hemisphere , and a costly DIVORCE had to build a complete system from scratch. Now I'm talking everything from the desk, chair and keyboard up. Yes I blew my budget completely out of the water but with the assistance of the lovely people at the Australian Tax office, I built a kicka** rig. AMD Ryzen 1700, 16gb ram, GTX 1080. I run AH3 at 2560x1440 at full tilt all sliders to the right and get low frames of 60fps and max out most of the time at 165fps. I'm playing Asseto Corsa at full detail and benchmarked at 115fps etc etc.
My point is, just because I'm 50 don't mean I don't game. I was 11 when the first "home Computers" came out, a massive 48k ram in my ZX Spectrum :eek:. I've had Commodore Amiga's PC's Xboxes. I now build my own. My steam account has around 130 games. I am gamer :rock
So 50 yr olds do own gaming rigs, we play games because that's what we were brought up doing, and we love the diversity and camaraderie that games like this bring. that's why I gladly pay my $14.95 to get my arse shot down time after time after time.
Don't confuse being "old" with not being a gamer because there's lots of us here who can whip the butt of some 18yr old in any game of their choosing :cheers:
Edit
Funny "arse" is ok but a** gets changed to bellybutton.
You Americans are funny :D
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: icepac on September 04, 2017, 07:07:33 AM
Actually...............it's guys like you (and me) who built the original player base for this sim.
I still can create from memory the perfect Dos configuration files and modem strings to get maximum performance on pre-pentium machines.
It's what started me toward eventual MCSE and a lifetime of watching hardware innovations with an eye on how to use them to further quality gaming.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: Hajo on September 04, 2017, 07:59:03 AM
I played AHIII just fine with an Nvidia GTX 750Ti. I cut a few things back and got up to 60 fps. It really doesn't take much to play this game. I'm currently running a 970 at top performance.
Only thing I have off is shadows ( they bothered me). I steadily pull 60fps. It does not take an expensive card to play this game and take advantage of the new graphics.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: Max on September 04, 2017, 08:42:09 AM
Ditto. My EVGA 760 GTX 2G runs the game (I'm not a fan of shadows either) between 55-60 FR with most of the candy turned up.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: The Fugitive on September 04, 2017, 08:44:48 AM
So all of the dozens of comments about not being able to upgrade, bon voyage has nothing to do with numbers decline dramatically? It's all just coincidence?
Fascinating
Of the 20 or so people I use to fly with in the 47 Ronin there are less than half a dozen still playing. Only 3 quit due to needing major update/new computer. The rest rest left due to boredom/poor game play. Those that needed equipment couldn't afford it at the time, and one of them has recently returned.
Game play accounts for most of the people leaving. For some, it was not enough furballs, some, not enough organization, some just got bored of doing the same thing (and never trying other things or even just to get better at what they are doing) over and over again. How long can you play where the only thing you do is gun down guns and vulch? Life expectancy of subscriptions are measured in "months", not "years". Those of us who break that mold are outside the norm :x
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: AAIK on September 04, 2017, 09:10:06 AM
Well I fit the demographic being 50, but how dare you describe me /us as older :huh :old: I am in my absolute prime, aside from the aching joints, need for glasses to read, grey hair.....
I agree with this sentiment! Its a outrage! :old: :mad: :D
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: asterix on September 04, 2017, 10:11:09 AM
Would be nice if clipboard map sector numbers were visible in 512 texture although I now use a higher setting.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: The Fugitive on September 04, 2017, 11:11:41 AM
Would be nice if clipboard map sector numbers were visible in 512 texture although I now use a higher setting.
I believe they are visible in all texture sizes. You do have to be zoomed in enough to see them. HTC made it so as you zoom out on the map more and more of those details disappear to help cut down on the clutter when showing more than a few grids.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: eddiek on September 04, 2017, 01:25:40 PM
For me personally, it's been a question of do I come back to a game whose gameplay had become stale and predictable (for me), and if so, is it worth investing $$ in a system capable of running the game. The cost of even a new system is no longer an obstacle for me. However, justifying such a cost when I am out on jobs for a month or more, and only home and able to play for a few days, maybe two weeks, is harder to do now. My wife says I should give it a try........and I am probably going to do that. Built my current system in February of 2007, and it still works fine for me. If I can find a video card that will be backwards compatible with my mobo (PCI Express x16 slot), I would rather spend a smaller amount, see what the game play is like, and decide yes or no on investing further in the game. I can justify spending a couple hundred to test the waters.......if I like the new graphics and gameplay has improved, THEN I can look at a new system and monitor or Oculus VR setup.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: haggerty on September 04, 2017, 01:48:59 PM
I thought the numbers went up with the release of AH3. I know I was getting bored with 2 because the numbers were so low, came back for 3 and so did alot of others. This game is so low on the video demands, you could easily run it with onboard video. I'm getting 144 FPS @1080 with a graphics card I got for $100 used. My processor was only $84 for the latest gen intel. If you are reading this and actually have a hard time running AH3, let me know and I will find your bottleneck as well as a cheap solution.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: asterix on September 04, 2017, 02:05:05 PM
If I can find a video card that will be backwards compatible with my mobo (PCI Express x16 slot), ...
Isn`t that what all after AGP slot video cards use?
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: rvflyer on September 04, 2017, 02:11:28 PM
So you think us old people don't know about powerful computers and don't want to upgrade to the best? I would guess that most of us old people can afford the best computer money can buy or build. In my case I build my own and have for for the last 30+ years. Early in my computing adventures I bought a prebuilt computer and it was absolute junk. I swore from then on to build my own with components I chose and assemble. BTW I am over 70 years old. :old: :neener:
We know two things: 1, AH3 has much better graphics; 2, a substantial percentage of our community didn't follow us to AH3, mostly due to inadequate computers.
Would it be possible to allow a graphics control in-game that would dial it all the way down to AH2 levels? If so, our audience would increase significantly.
A note, I strongly suspect our audience is older geeks. If I remember correctly, a few years ago a survey was done and the average age was roughly 47. Older folks use computers for the basics, and likely only play a few games, thus upgrading just to play AH3 doesn't make sense. And the younger crowd that is happy to upgrade on a monthly basis, they know little about WW2, play dozens of arcade games and don't seem as interested in intense simulations, such as AH3. Our demographic is aging, and slowly dying out, though we may have also inadvertently moved them out due to the computer upgrades.
Thoughts?
boo
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: icepac on September 04, 2017, 04:13:39 PM
Yeah.....but you can probably change a flat tire on a dodge neon unlike the 4 comair flight instructors who lived in my apartment complex.........who I later saw driving around with domino's pizza lights on their cars trying to pay off the $80,000 of student loan debt.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: EagleDNY on September 04, 2017, 07:09:37 PM
Put it this way - you will spend a lot more on a joystick and rudder pedals than you will ever spend on a graphics card with sufficient power to run this game.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: EagleDNY on September 04, 2017, 07:11:10 PM
No, won't crash, we'll soon get rfid chip implants and upload the 666 mark , i mean cryptocurencies, ; Btc was 600$ one year ago, 4583$ now, no signs of slowing. https://www.coindesk.com/price/
Bitcoin will go gangbusters (thanks to the speculators, who own half of all the bitcoin ever generated) right up until the time it gets made illegal and the government seizes it all.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: DREDIOCK on September 04, 2017, 08:09:25 PM
Example. The computer I run AH on I built 9 years ago next month. the only upgrades I've done to it is add a second hard drive that was left over from an old PC because I wanted to access the files that were on it and to replace a video card that conked out on me. In fact Im still running XP on it
Know many new PC games that can still run on a 9 year old PC
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: icepac on September 04, 2017, 08:36:15 PM
Bitcoin is an extended pump and dump.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: ghi on September 04, 2017, 11:42:42 PM
Tens of thousands video cards mining BTC in Iceland and USA;
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: Gman on September 05, 2017, 12:18:01 AM
Eddiek- long time. You can easily spend less than $200 to green light your plan, grab a 1050ti, it runs the game well with a few settings trimmed down. I hope you do, HTC/AH3 is on an upswing since the release of the new version, there are names in the game still you'll remember, hook up with some people here or in the game, and you'll be right back into it.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: eddiek on September 05, 2017, 06:18:14 AM
Hiya, GMan........... I researched quite a bit and had decided that a 1050Ti would be a decent upgrade, enough to get my system up to date enough to try the game again. The issue I am running into now, is Amazon and NewEgg have decided that my physical/shipping address don't exist........even though I've bought and received numerous items from them over the years and had them shipped to this very address. I guess my 15 years here in this house were a dream, and I don't really live here.............lol. I contacted Amazon yesterday, received an email saying they show my address as a valid one in their system, and they will rectify the situation. Til then........I have to figure out if I can get a card rush shipped here before the 10th, which is the date I told the other vendors I would be available again. If not, it will just have to wait..........
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: eddiek on September 05, 2017, 01:12:28 PM
Got frustrated with Amazon and NewEgg..........so I went to BestBuy in Amarillo and picked up a EVGA GeForce GTX 1050Ti 4GB card. Gonna install it this afternoon when I can. Looks like time to take the wife to the ER.......unstable angina again, probably gonna be doing yet another heart cath unless I miss my guess...........
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: SirNuke on September 05, 2017, 01:20:23 PM
the people that leave tend to make a bigger ruckus than their actual numbers are
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: Arlo on September 05, 2017, 01:45:35 PM
Got frustrated with Amazon and NewEgg..........so I went to BestBuy in Amarillo and picked up a EVGA GeForce GTX 1050Ti 4GB card. Gonna install it this afternoon when I can. Looks like time to take the wife to the ER.......unstable angina again, probably gonna be doing yet another heart cath unless I miss my guess...........
I hope everything turns out ok. Seems plenty of AH (old AW?) folks are dealing with a lot of health issues ... us or our spouses (parents, if they're still around, as well). :(
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: haggerty on September 06, 2017, 06:36:30 AM
For anyone looking for a cheap computer that can run the game:
PCPartPicker part list (https://pcpartpicker.com/list/gjnmtJ) / Price breakdown by merchant (https://pcpartpicker.com/list/gjnmtJ/by_merchant/)
Add your choice of case. This uses the most cost effective integrated graphics.
This would be my recommended build if you want to buy a graphics card as well: PCPartPicker part list (https://pcpartpicker.com/list/tkDCxY) / Price breakdown by merchant (https://pcpartpicker.com/list/tkDCxY/by_merchant/)
I would suggest getting the graphics card used, you can find alot of 970, 980, or 1060s available now that the newer 1080ti are being sold, many people are choosing to upgrade. With this processor and a 1060 I am getting 144 FPS, capped because of my 144hz monitor.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: bozon on September 06, 2017, 07:11:27 AM
I have a aspire e 15 with a nividia GeForce 940 m with 2 gb of dedicatd ram and I cant play on it live. I can practice but even that is slow. my desktop is a 1200.00 asus and it rocks. no problems there. so it does matter that you have a better card. I'm hoping to be able to change the graphics card to a better one so I can play on my laptop I bought to take when I'm on location at work. Its 2 years old. peace
If you have a mobile nVidia, make sure that the game runs on it and not the intel onboard card that is also there.
It is possible to force an application to use the nVidia card - use the force!
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: redcatcherb412 on September 06, 2017, 04:32:27 PM
So you think us old people don't know about powerful computers and don't want to upgrade to the best? I would guess that most of us old people can afford the best computer money can buy or build. In my case I build my own and have for for the last 30+ years. Early in my computing adventures I bought a prebuilt computer and it was absolute junk. I swore from then on to build my own with components I chose and assemble. BTW I am over 70 years old. :old: :neener:
Us old farts of the S100 IMSAI 8080 generation salute you :salute (http://www.oldcomputers.net/pics/imsai8080-left.jpg)
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: rvflyer on September 06, 2017, 04:47:41 PM
If I was going to build a new system I would go with a more powerful power supply, not that much more and if you ever want to upgrade graphics card you will need it.
Add your choice of case. This uses the most cost effective integrated graphics.
This would be my recommended build if you want to buy a graphics card as well: PCPartPicker part list (https://pcpartpicker.com/list/tkDCxY) / Price breakdown by merchant (https://pcpartpicker.com/list/tkDCxY/by_merchant/)
I would suggest getting the graphics card used, you can find alot of 970, 980, or 1060s available now that the newer 1080ti are being sold, many people are choosing to upgrade. With this processor and a 1060 I am getting 144 FPS, capped because of my 144hz monitor.
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: Bear76 on September 07, 2017, 02:06:06 AM
Time to move on... only regulars from the old days will pay 14.95 to play that old stuff.
I see where you are coming from.. but putting the game on steam is a sign of what direction we are going.
Im on board.
Some tweaks to gameplay and UI are needed, .. but thats just my opinion.
I still really enjoy flying with the guys i do.. and i encourage all groups to adopt a noob and show him a good time... i think a lot of us are addicted for that very reason.
You hush :D
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: 1stpar3 on September 07, 2017, 02:48:21 AM
My Commodore 128 wont run Aces High :embarrassed: What about my old Tandy? Dont know about some of you, but I for one am glad that I found this game when I did :rock AFTER the kids were grown and on their own! Would feel a bit embarrassed to have 20 somethings still in diapers :x Got here too late for the HAY DAYS but I love each and every one of you old guys :old: Multiple Sclerosis had beat me down mentally and physically, this game and its players were a God send. Just wanted to get it out there. Love reading these posts and the goosing and ribbing, like a family lol :cheers:
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: Ramesis on September 07, 2017, 01:58:55 PM
My Commodore 128 wont run Aces High :embarrassed: What about my old Tandy? Dont know about some of you, but I for one am glad that I found this game when I did :rock AFTER the kids were grown and on their own! Would feel a bit embarrassed to have 20 somethings still in diapers :x Got here too late for the HAY DAYS but I love each and every one of you old guys :old: Multiple Sclerosis had beat me down mentally and physically, this game and its players were a God send. Just wanted to get it out there. Love reading these posts and the goosing and ribbing, like a family lol :cheers:
Won't run on my old Sinclair either but I love the flight modeling :salute
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: zack1234 on September 09, 2017, 05:08:58 AM
:)
Title: Re: Graphics and our community
Post by: JimmyC on September 09, 2017, 05:13:01 AM
I got 1/2 msg ram add on to my Amiga 500.. Works a treat.. ..shadows turned off...