Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Randy1 on October 04, 2017, 05:57:38 AM
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Eliminating m3 troops is the latest change but it really began when we switched to ah3 and the map changes.
Greebo's Crater map would such the air war dry with the huge tank battles in AH2. Now in ah3, nothing.
Then the changes in tank island eliminating the GV bases. Now it is common to enter prime time with one country controlling the island. Tank battles happen but are rare during prime time.
The distance on average for a GV to travel in ah3 to a red base has increased.
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Speaking only for myself, I almost never GV'd in AH2. But with the new finer mesh terrain and trees in AH3, I find aspects of it enjoyable and always make time for a GV sortie or three when I log on now.
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Don't blame HTC for the changes to CraterMA in AH3, they were entirely my own idea. I hated the way TT turned the rest of the map into a gameplay desert. I also slightly reduced all the GV spawn point distances to towns and fields so your last point does not hold up for that map at least.
Considering the work involved in moving a large number of spawns one at a time I'd be very surprised if HTC had moved more than a handful of spawns in or out on other MA maps. I suspect if travel times have increased it is more likely to be down to the more detailed and cluttered AH3 terrain.
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for a long period of time in this game you could only bring troops with a goon. This is nothing new. Those of us playing then managed quite well.
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Bases still fall with the same frequency as before. You now have to utilize a troop carrier that has only a slightly higher speed than the tanks it is with vs a 50mph race car. I haven't gotten a 251 capture yet but I have several goon grabs since the change. The hammerhead troop drop is an art form.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The Gv game took a big hit from new terrain and the partially redesigned map.
But so far I have no idea how using the SdKfz could "hurt" the GV game in any significant way.
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Sure does look that way. Before the change CraterMA TT was a lot of fun now it's a waste of space.
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Don't blame HTC for the changes to CraterMA in AH3, they were entirely my own idea. I hated the way TT turned the rest of the map into a gameplay desert. I also slightly reduced all the GV spawn point distances to towns and fields so your last point does not hold up for that map at least.
Considering the work involved in moving a large number of spawns one at a time I'd be very surprised if HTC had moved more than a handful of spawns in or out on other MA maps. I suspect if travel times have increased it is more likely to be down to the more detailed and cluttered AH3 terrain.
Your AH2 Crater had a great TT. Was one of the only maps that gave GV'ers a place for instant tank action and we enjoyed it Greebo.
I'd disagree with saying the rest of the map turning into a game play desert. Had that been the case, it wouldn't have been routinely rolled in 1 - 2 days. :salute
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The conversion of AH2 to AH3 terrains showed a lack of testing by the group who took on the monumental job of touching up the conversion to the new tile sets. Greebo and I differ a bit on how we look at using the terrain to help or impact GVs. You can see this in my design of GV spawn area tile set choices and spawn distance to attack target on BowlMA.
Everyone involved in the AH2 to AH3 terrain conversions screwed up, but not willfully. Instead no one had been here before to understand the new terrain tiles. Greebo ran into a real problem like I did with these well packed tree and clutter tiles. It's hard to micro blend the none farmland\village tiles to give a good balance of long views to navigate and cover to hide in on the way to the attack target. When you look at the conversions from a GV point of view from under the trees, too many trees are laid down in almost every case except for the Mediterranean tile set that is desert and Savannah.
Waffle created farm land tiles that have a good balance of open spaces, trees and clutter for GV combat so that the terrain builder can slap that in quickly. I still end up adding open grass into the farm land tiles on my current terrain because I get down on the ground in a tank and drive what I create. If it feels closed in and I could be ambushed any moment, or just too long to travel 1 mile, I add a tiny bit of grass to open things up. GVers in AH want to see long distances while having enough cover to shoot down those long distances at each other. Not feel paranoid and lost trying to travel a mile.
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Your AH2 Crater had a great TT. Was one of the only maps that gave GV'ers a place for instant tank action and we enjoyed it Greebo.
I'd disagree with saying the rest of the map turning into a game play desert. Had that been the case, it wouldn't have been routinely rolled in 1 - 2 days. :salute
The fact it didn't get rolled quicker is his point I believe.
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Your AH2 Crater had a great TT. Was one of the only maps that gave GV'ers a place for instant tank action and we enjoyed it Greebo.
I'd disagree with saying the rest of the map turning into a game play desert. Had that been the case, it wouldn't have been routinely rolled in 1 - 2 days. :salute
the rolling of the map was a symptom of the issues as Greebo stated them. With most players in TT is was easy for small groups to just roll base after base.
As a guy who likes flying, the Crater map was the only one I did gv on. with all the players there I could last a bit longer and so get a few kills in. Now, I almost never gv. There are very few fights that spring up where a poor gver like myself can last long enough to spot an enemy gv. With the directional sound not working it makes 5hings even harder.
While AH3 is beautiful from the ground I think it was a big step backward for playability.
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I'm primarily a fighter/attack player, but there have been a LOT of times when I've had an absolute blast tanking in AH3. The added trees makes for a more cat and mouse type fight. There are times when I long for TT to get into that big rolling long distance fight that would sometimes erupt. My attitude is that while I was comfortable with the M3 and troops, it's not a deal breaker, and I will learn something else.
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I think Bustr made a very good go at giving his map center that Tank Town feel in spite of the challenges with the new terrain tiles.
HTC'S call to change the regular V bases to pig pens seems to more encourage base sneaks rather than promote the TT battles Bustr intended.
And Fugitive, I agree with your assessment.
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Don't blame HTC for the changes to CraterMA in AH3, they were entirely my own idea. I hated the way TT turned the rest of the map into a gameplay desert. I also slightly reduced all the GV spawn point distances to towns and fields so your last point does not hold up for that map at least.
Considering the work involved in moving a large number of spawns one at a time I'd be very surprised if HTC had moved more than a handful of spawns in or out on other MA maps. I suspect if travel times have increased it is more likely to be down to the more detailed and cluttered AH3 terrain.
First, no matter what, you are held in high regards across AH for your beautiful work and the effort you put forward.
Yes the ah2 map drained the skies but the tank action was intense. The stuff legends are made of in AH.
There are many bases where just the climb seems forever then there is the slippery rocks that every GV'er hates.
I should have mentioned in orginal post the plus side HTC's fixing of the trees so they do not grab a tank like they use too.
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HTC'S call to change the regular V bases to pig pens seems to more encourage base sneaks rather than promote the TT battles Bustr intended.
I changed them to that because I had a sense Hitech would not allow them to stay tagged un-captureable like I initial set them to be. I didn't want to put a 1x1mile base object in that small of a location because it would promote hiding on the base and using manned ack rather than moving out into the pit to fight. As for the easy capture, ever wondered why I placed a GV spawn form the main island on the doorstep of each of those tiny vBases? Most of the time those tiny bases are captured by a single guy in an M3 who de-acks with the duce, then runs in the troops. If you want to keep it, you have to get out of the tower and fight for it in a GV.
I've watched the use of that TT drop to zilch as the Gvers choose to follow combat paths with the air combat initiatives. I setup the GV game on that terrain so they could revert to doing what they did with the AH2 CraterMA TT or be part of the flow of combat around the terrain. The spawn paths ensure Gvers can find combat, or play in TT, after that, it's up to them.
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Back in beta, I felt that there should have been terrain tiles with turf mounds for gvs to hide behind and maybe a tile with fewer trees. The existing tiles are awesome, but I think that would add to gv experience. As to the center of the island bases on ndsiles map, I wish they were uncapturable. When they are captured by another country, it takes some players who want to participate in a gv battle out of the picture in the center of the map tank town.
one-eye
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There always were tiles with fewer trees in the AH3 16 tile set for Eu and Pac that were in the alpha\beta terrains. You can open the terrain editor, plop down a 1000ft high few miles of land. Then get up close and do paint samples of all the tiles and look at them. All of the complaints stem from terrain builders not being familiar with a completely new terrain editor set of tiles. When you create ground for GV combat in the terrain editor, it often is not what you thought when you actually drive that same area to test it. It's a lot of thankless work driving every single spawn on a terrain to make sure it's even conducive to GV combat.
It was Greebo's choice and the choice of the players who did the touch up after the AH2 to AH3 conversion, as to what the tree density out comes have been on different terrains at the spawns. When you play on my terrain BowlMA, you see I used the village tiles Waffle created that are optimized for tank combat. And berms, far as I can find, and I looked for lunatic through the objects list and the tiles. Waffle decided not to create berms as terrain objects, or as a 1x1mile tile to be blended into other tiles. It's a PITA just adding single bridges onto a terrain let alone if Waffle had created tiny berm objects to add one or two at a time. Then you are on the hook testing every single berm in person to see if they even matter for game play at each location. Every single bridge I've put into my new terrain I've had to spawn out to it and drive across it and the combat area around it. It's amazing the difference in perspective from what you see in a GV on the ground, versus being a 50k giant finger painting in an editor program.
The biggest difference in terrain from AH2 to AH3 for GV combat, was less density of trees allowing for seeing more of the combat area around you. To scoot and hide or make long shots versus having to get up close to see the enemy. The village tile for the AH3 summer Eu tile set on my terrain BowlMA creates that kind of an environment. For the most part, these new tile sets in the new AH3 terrain editor are being learned now during the first year of AH3. Because no terrain builder had created a fully AH3 terrain when AH3 went live. So no one had feed back on what works and what doesn't. Now the terrain tiles have been played on and feed back for GV combat has been coming in.
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so wait, you got rid of an item because it drew to much attention.......... THAT IS WHAT THE PEOLPLE WANT GIVE IT TO THEM. that makes absolutely since. lets get rid of a map because everyone enjoys something on it.
when the ndislands map comes up watch the attention the center island gets. the huge fur balls that brake out. seems that Is what folks want. why would you not provide that? :bhead
I know youre gonna say go build my own map, but I don't agree with that. I don't take my steak to longhorn and cook it my self because I want it rare and the chef only cooks them med well. ask me to rebuild an engine I got you, ask me to do stuff with a computer and I am lost. just sayin
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Please put the gv spawns in the center of crater back like they were in AH2. Respectfully requesting sir.
:salute
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Tank battles happen but are rare during prime time.
I dunno man, I GV more now than I ever did since we got AH3. It's way more fun to GV now and I have no problems finding a good fight.
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Greebo blew the whole center of that crater out and re-did it the way he really wanted to in AH2. He told me because of the limitations in the AH2 editor he ended up with the crater everyone liked kind of by accident. He was unable to do what he really wanted to do which the AH3 editor allowed. I tried to give that back to everyone with BowlMA but, all the GV guys like following the air combat initiatives around the map now.
Most of what works in AH has been happy accidents that when times change, you just have to move on and work with what you have in the present. It doesn't mean you don't try to bring with you the lessons learned and try to adapt them into future projects like I did with BowlMA. As you can see, the TT crater on Bowl is usually empty now. Times have changed so I've adapted what is working from NDisles center combat area into my new terrain.
AH players are really like trying to make a house full of cats happy every time you bring home new food and toys. My cats seem to like the bags the toys come home in more than the toys for some reason. And they refuse to eat high end cat health food like Blue Buffalo and Wellness. And AH3 was supposed to solve the demands for eye candy and many people keep demanding AH2 based on their fond memory's of it back like it could be exactly duplicated into a new graphics and terrain engine. Maybe that's why I like my squad so much, pigs will eat anything.
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I've read through the patch release notes and do not see a mention of troops being removed fro mth eM3.
When did this happen?
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When did this happen?
About two weeks ago, it's an arena setting and wasn't part of that patch.
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On the original version of CraterMA I created the clear areas in TT by exploiting a limitation of the AH2 terrain system. I found that if I placed even the tiniest dot of water on any quarter mile square of terrain then all the clutter on that square would vanish. So by placing tiny dots of water on the tops of mountains I was able to clear large areas of terrain of trees and bushes etc. Now when the time came to rebuild the terrain for AH3 I found that this limitation of AH2 had not been carried over, the presence of water no longer affects nearby land clutter. Also unlike AH2 water has to be at 0 feet in AH3 so I couldn't place water on mountain tops. The different vertex spacing AH3 uses also screwed up my carefully designed TT cliffs.
So for all these reasons TT had to be redesigned for AH3 anyway. In early beta the only really clutter-free tiles were the snow and sand textures, so I wasn't able to create those clutter-free areas with green terrain. Later in the AH3 beta HTC made one of the grass textures clutter-free, but I wasn't about to redo all that work at that point. Besides I didn't much like AH2 CraterMA being a TT-only map so I wasn't too bothered about leaving it cluttered.
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AH2 CraterMa was never a TT only map. It only appeared as such, due to the concentration of activity here. When the overall numbers dropped below a point (off-hours), there was about nobody there at all. Only later during the day the activity there picked up, but never more than 1/3rd to half of all people. I did a few recon fast flights lower in the crater with film viewer running to count the players, because I was curious about exactly that. :)
But no doubt, it was very popular. Because people had fun. Not just in GV, tanks were bombed, bomb****s were hunted by fighters, others tried to protect them, players were coming back for revenge, Snailman tried to bomb GV from 25k (not very effective, that thing worked so much better in the old 'original' small tank town of Ndisles :noid
Now TT on crater is totally empty. Nobody is there anymore at all, just occasionally the Vehicle bases, being out of focus, are target of a quick sneak.
To me, personally, CraterMa went from being a map I was waiting for to come up again to just another map.
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About two weeks ago, it's an arena setting and wasn't part of that patch.
thanks Lusche :salute
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Don't blame HTC for the changes to CraterMA in AH3, they were entirely my own idea. I hated the way TT turned the rest of the map into a gameplay desert. I also slightly reduced all the GV spawn point distances to towns and fields so your last point does not hold up for that map at least.
Considering the work involved in moving a large number of spawns one at a time I'd be very surprised if HTC had moved more than a handful of spawns in or out on other MA maps. I suspect if travel times have increased it is more likely to be down to the more detailed and cluttered AH3 terrain.
with no disrespect to you greebo and HTC but don't you think that we as the players of this great game play it the way we want to play it the way we want AH2 CraterMA was the greatest GV fights since Trinity and Compello. and I think having the original tank town back on CraterMA would be great.
but then the horde would start crying that gv fighting would take away from the fighter game, as they do now-just my thought
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like flippz said give the people what they want-and we want a big honkin tank town like we had in AH2 craterMA Please. remember there are players on all sides who don't want to fly. they want to gv, tanks are fun, but mostly now only gv fights we have now is at a spawn wich is either camped or bomb traded, I am a big bomb****, but I also live gv fighting.
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like flippz said give ME what I want-and I want a big honkin tank town like I had in AH2 craterMA Please. remember I want to fly. they want to gv, tanks are fun, but mostly now only gv fights I have now is at a spawn wich is either camped or bomb traded, I am a big bomb****, but I also live gv fighting.
Strange how you know what all players want.
HiTech
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with no disrespect to you greebo and HTC but don't you think that we as the players of this great game play it the way we want to play it the way we want AH2 CraterMA was the greatest GV fights since Trinity and Compello. and I think having the original tank town back on CraterMA would be great.
but then the horde would start crying that gv fighting would take away from the fighter game, as they do now-just my thought
All of the whining about gvs you mention ia purely how supplies hinder gameplay... not gv's. You are the 15th person trying to twist the words of others for whatever reason. Gv supps effect your tank battles too.. the guys that might be defending their town in a tank are just scampering around dropping cartoon supply boxes.
Dont make this something it isnt.
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All of the whining about gvs you mention ia purely how supplies hinder gameplay... not gv's. You are the 15th person trying to twist the words of others for whatever reason. Gv supps effect your tank battles too.. the guys that might be defending their town in a tank are just scampering around dropping cartoon supply boxes.
Dont make this something it isnt.
I am really not trying to twist your words. Nor am I making any comment on its value or content. I am simply pointing out how you rather liberally use the word we.
HiTech
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I am really not trying to twist your words. Nor am I making any comment on its value or content. I am simply pointing out how you rather liberally use the word we.
After re reading if your "WE" only referred to you and flipz, then I stand corrected.
HiTech
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So mr HiTech how has the m3 numbers fluctuated since the troop removal?
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When I first started ah, I hated the Crater map coming up because it would suck thee air war dry. Then after joining ET on GV and bomber missions, i found I enjoyed the game much more if played the many venues AH offered.
The ah2 Crater was something I very much looked forward to in the map rotation. Got killed a lot, but man it was a blast. On vox one night, someone asked me how often I landed my tank kills in the Crater. I said, "Man, you don't land kills in there. You just look for another kill until somebody kills you."
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Eliminating m3 troops is the latest change but it really began when we switched to ah3 and the map changes.
Greebo's Crater map would such the air war dry with the huge tank battles in AH2. Now in ah3, nothing.
Then the changes in tank island eliminating the GV bases. Now it is common to enter prime time with one country controlling the island. Tank battles happen but are rare during prime time.
The distance on average for a GV to travel in ah3 to a red base has increased.
1. - M3 troops is Hitech testing something, we all have to wait for his results. He probably has no other way to get the exact data he is gathering contrary to a popular conspiracy theory about Hitech's master programmer sneakiness. Does the game have a monthly score category for the most supplies delivered to screw base captures?
2. - I copied the CraterMA TT crater to my terrain BowlMA as best I could, for the first few rotations GVers used it for nice battles. Now because I also set the GV spawns to follow the air combat front across that terrain, GVers follow the fronts instead. That is their choice not Hitech doing something to them. Or blame me for how I setup the spawn paths for GVers. I guess now I need to force all spawns to drop them at TT on my new terrain........ :O
3. - Copied the NDisles center island to my new terrain and added canals so I could add bridges. Hitech took time from his swamped debugging time to make the bridges work for the game so I could use them. He is always thinking about his customers. I made it harder to capture the feilds on that island but, Hitech will not allow uncaptureable feilds away from the HQ\City area. If you can convince him, I will happily tag the three airfields in the center of my new terrain as uncapturable. No one can do anything about cheesy childish game play which is why those airfields on NDisles get captured when not enough players are on to defend them. I've tried to defend them against the kiddy hoard when there was only three of us, it's impossible, and they like it that way. A simple way to put a monkey wrench in that is one spawn from the next airfield back between the small airfield and it's GV spawns out to tank town. I'm still considering a spawn from the next island back into the TT area for each country. And that opens another potential can of worms for abuse and complaints in the forums.
4. - As far as I can see the AH2-AH3 terrain conversion function in the terrain editor kept all spawns exactly where they were relative to the targets they were dropping GV's off to go to. What changed was the clutter and trees being poorly implemented increasing your time spent navigating tight confined places. On my first terrain I addressed that and standardized all spawns at three miles from target center. It takes a tank 7 minutes from the spawn to the flag in town. Any faster and you are handing the town to attacking GVs or now, to M3 delivery trucks ending the capture fight prematurely. It took me 6 months to build that first terrain and 30 days of it were all driving GV's experimenting with trees and clutter while using a stop watch to understand these issues.
The best terrain tiles without tweaking them once you paint an area for GV's are in the Mediterranean tile set which is desert and Savannah, with some village and agriculture tiles just like the other tile sets. The Summer Europe and Pacific sets have farmland and village tiles which you can paint in place and not tweak. But, I found with the Europe set you had to exclusively use the farm village tile all the way to the spawn's attack target or start touching up with a grass tile and a lot of driving the ground with each touch up to open the space for navigation and seeing other tanks. The Pacific tile set I'm using on the current terrain you can paint in the agriculture tiles and leave it at that. You can drive full speed through bushes and bamboo but, visually it's claustrophobic because there are so many of them with few really long open vistas. You cannot see the ambushes waiting for you. So I've had to thin them with grass to come up with a GV combat friendly solution at almost every spawn. And there are a few unique places I've had to add trees to be fair to the tanks spawning in.
Most of the GV problems in AH3 is the lack of space to navigate, see where you are going, and see other tanks before you blindly crawl through the trees into their ambush spot. Other wise, the tree tiles and clutter tiles are very realistic if you want to bush whack and not drive down roads. No one uses roads if they are there to avoid being out in the open, so it's on whom ever is working on the terrain to make things AH GV combat friendly. I'm not sure if everything I've described is commonly known so far.
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Strange how you know what all players want.
i am not saying i know what all players want,but i know what i see. fighter town on the ndislands map, full of planes. maps with close spawns points, epic battles. the other night the map with spawns for the v bases there were gv battles for hours. look at buzzsaw, the airfields that are close there are super battles now that the flak is gone. and again for some that's not there thing but i will say for a lot it seems to be. close up front battles.
HiTech
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Back in beta, I felt that there should have been terrain tiles with turf mounds for gvs to hide behind and maybe a tile with fewer trees. The existing tiles are awesome, but I think that would add to gv experience. As to the center of the island bases on ndsiles map, I wish they were uncapturable. When they are captured by another country, it takes some players who want to participate in a gv battle out of the picture in the center of the map tank town.
one-eye
+1000
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Please put the gv spawns in the center of crater back like they were in AH2. Respectfully requesting sir.
:salute
+1000
here is a person like I'm talking about--Mano doesn't fly he gv's in all the years that I have known him I have never ever seen him fly, even going way back to AH2.
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On the original version of CraterMA I created the clear areas in TT by exploiting a limitation of the AH2 terrain system. I found that if I placed even the tiniest dot of water on any quarter mile square of terrain then all the clutter on that square would vanish. So by placing tiny dots of water on the tops of mountains I was able to clear large areas of terrain of trees and bushes etc. Now when the time came to rebuild the terrain for AH3 I found that this limitation of AH2 had not been carried over, the presence of water no longer affects nearby land clutter. Also unlike AH2 water has to be at 0 feet in AH3 so I couldn't place water on mountain tops. The different vertex spacing AH3 uses also screwed up my carefully designed TT cliffs.
So for all these reasons TT had to be redesigned for AH3 anyway. In early beta the only really clutter-free tiles were the snow and sand textures, so I wasn't able to create those clutter-free areas with green terrain. Later in the AH3 beta HTC made one of the grass textures clutter-free, but I wasn't about to redo all that work at that point. Besides I didn't much like AH2 CraterMA being a TT-only map so I wasn't too bothered about leaving it cluttered.
That is a really good explanation. Thank you for taking the time to let us know how the center of crater was made in AH2. That was the best map of all time. <S> ....and I always wondered why there were tiny lakes up on top. Now I know.
The center of Crater in AH3 is fine. There are lots of trees for cover, ridges to peak over, and other areas for a gv to hide.
It is an excellent area for GV'ing but the overlapping spawns do not create instant action like the old map.
But, my question is: Is is possible to put the three spawns going into crater from the three V bases in crater as they were in AH2? That was what was unique to Crater in AH2 and why it was so much fun. GV's do not go to the center of Crater anymore.
Thank you.
:salute
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Strange how you know what all players want.
HiTech
errr I did sound like Nugetx didn't I?
just going by what I'm reading here.
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All of the whining about gvs you mention ia purely how supplies hinder gameplay... not gv's. You are the 15th person trying to twist the words of others for whatever reason. Gv supps effect your tank battles too.. the guys that might be defending their town in a tank are just scampering around dropping cartoon supply boxes.
Dont make this something it isnt.
I didn't say anything about supplies hingering gameplay, I don'y think it does, its the horde that want to end M3 resupply not me.
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You have me confused...
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But, my question is: Is is possible to put the three spawns going into crater from the three V bases in crater as they were in AH2? That was what was unique to Crater in AH2 and why it was so much fun. GV's do not go to the center of Crater anymore.
Thank you.
:salute
He had a gallery and a pit structure that was about 3miles across arranged in a triangle defined by mesas standing 2000ft over the pit. The TT object in the center of the AH3 crater is as big as the AH2 gallery and pit structure it's self at over 4miles across. In AH2 we all hid in trees on each gallery sniping each other across the pit with two of the three spawns down into the pit where the factory complex sat. I duplicated that in the center of BowlMA for the most part, it was used for awhile and then everyone started following the air combat fronts in their GVs. I suspect because on BowlMA it does not take very long to get to the town through the villages and pastures.
On CraterMA AH2 and AH3 the towns are still a long way from the fields and the GV spawns are in the same places a long way from the airfields. Hitech's rules for terrains do not include forcing the terrain builder to not favor air combat over GV combat. Just a general guideline about distance from the town or base for the GV spawn. GV spawns average between 3-5 miles out, and I set all of mine to 3 to ensure fighting time versus transit and getting lost in trees time.
And if you as a terrain builder do not pay close attention to how you setup GV spawns and how you setup your towns, you may bias against GVs without realizing it. Or worry that GV combat will contribute to making the rest of your terrain a ghost town during prime time. I balanced it on BowlMA and the whole community is not hiding in GVs like had been worried where this game was headed. The AH2 tank crater created a lazyboy recliner style easy shooting arcade with a little side action for the more inclined to take risks. It was never that the rest of the terrain wasn't an excellent air combat and capture bases terrain. It was that accidental genius of a crater was too easy to get kills in with little risk if you were not inclined to do anything but press a button.
So it looks like there are some wish list items here about the over all GV game from the responses to this and other recent posts that are very grumpy.
Wishes:
1. - Make Greebo blow out the crater TT on CraterMA and put it back exactly like it was in AH2. <--That would be very unkind to Greebo, and how would you force him to do it?
2. - Make the new AH3 tree and clutter tiles exactly like the AH2 tree and clutter tiles so tank combat in AH3 will be back to like AH2.<-- Not sure how this is even possible considering AH2 and AH3 are not the same programs.
3. - Have Waffle make a berm dotted clutter tile or berm objects, and make someone modify all terrains with them.<--If Hitech does not make them a requirment for terrain acceptance, they probably will get forgotten by terrain builders. How many remembered the bridge objects included in the terrain editor?
4. - Put the troops back in the M3 and tell the air guys to stop making Hitech screw with the GV game. <-- I've gotten the sense from reading the forums and text\Vox in the arena. There is an ongoing background feeling by dedicated GVers that Hitech looks at the GV game as a side show when he changes things in the game. Testing the M3 by removing the troops over a perceived air combat side of the community's demand, is not making them feel good including all the rest of their gripes that has helped them dredge back up.
5. - Put the vBase objects back on NDisles that were swapped for three too easy to capture small airfields with map rooms on them. <--Gotta admit that place is hopping during prime time now days. Could have always enabled a few fighters from the hanger, I tested that runway during the alpha/beta with all the fighters in the game. 50% fuel made getting off the ground easy with no ordnance for many. Another 100ft or so would be gold for takeoffs, landings would be interesting. I think absolutely no combat aircraft launched is what this wish really wants back in those locations. There is not an extensive network of GV spawns across water between islands on NDisles for GV combat, there are few and all localized. This could be solved with a network of cross water spawns ringing the terrain, the field layouts have an obvious capture path by shortest distance between feilds.
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Strange how you know what all players want.
HiTech
I understand what your saying, and he cant possibly speak for everyone, however, you COULD add a poll for players as they log in asking if players would like the "old" style crater Tank Town back. Then you would know for sure what the players think.
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Depending on many factors there are a number of scenarios Greebo might have to go through to change the AH3 crater back to the AH2 crater.
I can see some, Greebo might have to do it by hand and probably from memory or at best if he still has a copy of AH2 and it's terrain editor, do a 1:1 scale mapping long hand into a sketch pad looking at it inside of the AH2 terrain editor. Then long hand re-sculpt the center of that AH3 crater using the sketch pad drawing and primary coordinates used as corner key points. Or, he might be able to export an elevation file from the AH2 version if the files even exist anymore from AH2 and prep it in L3DT for AH3 as an import. The new import "might not" require him to re-visit every square mile of the whole terrain after tweaking and repainting the change that he prepped in L3DT. That is a long shot "might not".
A consciousness person would visit every square mile just in case the elevation file being re-imported just to change the crater is no longer exactly like the AH3 terrain. It probably won't be, I suspect Greebo used the opportunity to tweak the landscape in other places.
Another really horrible thing would be, once he exported the height file from the AH2 version, he exports a height file from the AH3 version. Both will be 4096x4096 work spaces, I've done this by the way and it's work. He maps what the coordinates of the area of the crater will be as a square in the exact center of the height file. Copies that area from the AH2 file and pastes into the AH3 file. What matters is being able to edit that RAW file format in an art editor that recognizes it. Allows you to do a copy and paste, then the saved RAW file is in a format either L3DT recognizes so you can file format prep with an export for AH3, or the AH3 terrain editor recognizes and imports the file format of the merged height files. there is still no garuntee this will be exactly the same as that area of landscape from the AH2 crater. And he will have to remember before saving the thing to rotate it 90 degrees I think to the left. Otherwise, all of his bases and spawns will not line up on the land because the terrain will be 1\4 turn out of place.
Or you convince him to once again convert the AH2 terrain to AH3 and repaint and retweak all the things he did over about 6 months to get the AH3 CraterMA to where it is today but, he keeps the AH2 tank crater structure in place.
Remember this from the list of GVer terrain wishes?
<--That would be very unkind to Greebo, and how would you force him to do it?
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When AH3 went live CraterMA was made the default terrain, i.e. the terrain that is downloaded with the game itself. At that point HTC took over development of CraterMA and I no longer have anything to do with it.
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I remember the MA Map that had the dueling arenas centre area. Fights there were great! constant action, take off, clear the mountain edge and drop into a world of heaven.
Then the base capture guys came along and starting trying to capture said centre fields! Shock and horror. The joint base capture efforts of 2 opposing sides to reclaim the field for the guys who had it taken it from them were also good fun. Those were the days!
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I remember that Bruv. CraterMA was originally designed with three airbases on the inner raised step of the crater but before I finished it HTC said they didn't want any "fighter town" MA maps so I took them out.
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I remember the MA Map that had the dueling arenas centre area. Fights there were great! constant action, take off, clear the mountain edge and drop into a world of heaven.
That was were I earned my first landed kills message... two 110's who were trying to sneak around the mountain next to the airfield to strafe it. They never checked their six, so an extremely excited n00b (sweaty hands!) was able to bring them down in his La-7 :banana:
What a pity you can't turn back the clock :old:
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I understand what your saying, and he cant possibly speak for everyone, however, you COULD add a poll for players as they log in asking if players would like the "old" style crater Tank Town back.
Such a poll would be a bad thing unless HT had such a version already at hand and would implement it at once ;)
But then, I'm generally very sceptical about polling things like that.
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I would imagine running a game service like HTC is like walking barefoot through broken glass. Still it is a business that lives or dies on majority customer satisfaction.
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You have me confused...
I mixed up you and lunatic1s posts.
HiTech
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From a combat simulation players point of view. And 24 years on various armored vehicles, the AH3 terrain looks much more realistic and typical of Central Europe. The old CraterMA map Combined with a totally unrealistic levels zoom/Magnification from what I call the commanders position, Led to a totally unrealistic arcade game. With some players having successfully engagements at over two kilometers in a WW2 tank. :huh
You have to remember that post war research indicates that the average tank engagement range during WW2 was only several hundred meters. Shots from over 1 kilometer were either rarely taken, or rarely reached their target. Yes you can find events and stories where long shots did happen, but most of the time it was a bad ideal.
CAV
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You have to remember that post war research indicates that the average tank engagement range during WW2 was only several hundred meters. Shots from over 1 kilometer were either rarely taken, or rarely reached their target. Yes you can find events and stories where long shots did happen, but most of the time it was a bad ideal.
Agreed.
We have the same unreality with air-to-air gunnery.
- oldman
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From a combat simulation players point of view. And 24 years on various armored vehicles, the AH3 terrain looks much more realistic and typical of Central Europe. The old CraterMA map Combined with a totally unrealistic levels zoom/Magnification from what I call the commanders position, Led to a totally unrealistic arcade game. With some players having successfully engagements at over two kilometers in a WW2 tank. :huh
You have to remember that post war research indicates that the average tank engagement range during WW2 was only several hundred meters. Shots from over 1 kilometer were either rarely taken, or rarely reached their target. Yes you can find events and stories where long shots did happen, but most of the time it was a bad ideal.
CAV
You are correct from a historical simulations point of view. However, GVs in AH (and various predecessor MMO flight sims) were never even close to behaving in a historical manner, nor could they do so without entirely changing the free-for-all sandbox play style we all know and love. Any realistic WW2 GV game, where players were constrained to operating only within military units, using real-world game tactics and pacing, would be profoundly un-enjoyable at the level of an individual GV.
Personally, I liked GV combat in AH2; it was fun learning how to make those long ranged shots, then maneuvering over the terrain, and making that skill pay off. IMHO, most of the objections to that play style were just sour grapes. Instead of improving their skills, they whined louder than the rest of us, and won.
That being said, the current AH3 GV game, though different, can still be fun, on the terrains which are constructed properly. That includes terrain elevation differences you can maneuver over, and close spawns. The more dense foliage on the trees helps a lot in protecting against planes. OTOH, the more dense foliage, when combined with flat terrain, reduces the game to stationary GVs lying in wait for moving GVs. My best GV mission so far involved 10 kills (before being bombed), and all were obtained while hiding near a town and ambushing moving attacking GVs. Kind of like spawn camping, IMHO.
MH
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I watched the ambush thing on my terrain BowlMA. All of the spawns and the area around towns is a tile with villages and long pastures. Each GV spawn is into the center of a village to stop spawn camping. And it works, except someone remembered his history lessons from tank ambushing after D-Day. From one spawn everyone would run through to village screened by the buildings out into a long pasture which they could race at full speed towards the town. For about 30 minutes every time they did that someone picked them off. So they all spawned in and started yelling for air support to either bomb the hidden tank or spot it for them. They would not move their tanks in any direction......
I spotted it for them and it was a very simple ambush spot that everyone could have driven a larger circle and avoided. The very last house of their spawn village on the very edge of the long pasture was an "L" shaped building with the inside of the "L" facing away from the path they would run through the town. Where the guy sat his back was exposed if they had gone wide into the pasture behind him. So he would listen for them to pass, poke his turret around the building and rear end them from the direction they had just come.
I was amazed at the amount of hysteria this was creating, these guys actually refused to come out of the center of the village until someone took the time to spot the single tank for them. So on my new terrain I keep touching up the farmland with open grass areas to try and make things less easy to ambush people. In AH2 spawn camping was a problem because the clutter and trees was sparser. I think the center island tank crater on my BowlMA terrain stopped getting used because the country with the most dedicated storch pilot was a direct factor in making people feel like they had no way to hide. There is a paranoia factor that effects average tank players I witness all the time with the AH3 trees and clutter being more realistic. I'm not sure tank combat now is as fun for as many players as it was in AH2. It certainly separates the experts form everyone else along with everyone else needing air spotters more frequently.
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To clarify, the example I gave above wasn't at a spawn, it was on one of the hills surrounding the airbase's town. This worked because it was a predictable destination for attackers. But it was kind of like spawn camping, because instead of maneuvering against opponents, I was just sitting there waiting for them, which IMHO is more limiting game play.
MY AH2 counter to people lying in wait to listen and ambush was to maneuver to a higher elevation off the the side, and then in, where I could often see them, and in addition often get flank shots. Since they had their engines off to listen for their victims, I could often get several shots in at very long range before they noticed me, turned engines on, and started to move. With several ambushers, one got even more targets. I haven't generally been able to do this in AH3 due it being much harder to see stuff at long range, perhaps due to the much more dense vegetation, and perhaps due to flatter maps. Elevations needed to be within sighting and gun range of the ambushers for this to work.
MH
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I really don't think the Hostiles Detector in vehicles is helping ground combat either.
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I really don't think the Hostiles Detector in vehicles is helping ground combat either.
Removing sound location without any other changes risks reducing GV tactics to blundering around in the trees. Remember using this is a major skill element. So I say keep it, unless someone reworks the maps to ensure elevations and fields of view as an replacement search enabler.
MH
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It's a big combat avoindance mechanism, better than any we had before.
I can sit, engine running, in the strats taking them down. I don't even need to listen, I just watch the clipboard. The landing button goes red long before we both being in noise range. I can quickly dart away, either to land or, even better to go into hiding. When I do that under tree cover, even planes can hardly find me at all. And I know all the time if an enemy is still around or not.
In AH2, when I heard the enemy for the first time, he was already well inside my 'safe landing distance'
It's similar with capture of vehicle bases, once the enemy gets to approximetaly within landing range he will stop and just check the detector. If red, he simply backs up a few hundred yard and tower out.
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AH3 has been live about a year which has given players a chance to beat up Hitech and Waffle's assumptions about the construction of the three default "16 tree\clutter" tile groups in the terrain editor with real time player results. Barring a major over haul, those tiles are what we have. The SpeedTree trees and clutter are supposed to be realistic since most games use them. The graphics engine allows for visual and light effects that are standard for the industry. For years this august body has screamed for realism and upgrading of the eye candy, so they finally got it. And it has forever changed the game, now AH3 is not AH2 and the grumbling boils down to wanting AH2 views and tree\clutter densities duplicated in AH3 so you can see the other guys.
I was part of the alpha\beta testing from day 1 to go live AH3 for two years. The assumption in the beginning for GV combat was the GVer's would love the realism. All of the GVer's who played around in the tank town on NDisles while we tested tree spacing and clutter loved being able to hide from each other. Sadly that was a very small number of players during those days. Approaching go live, there were some larger engagements, no one really had a handle on the new environment. From the feed back I listened to, many were over whelmed by the realistic nature of the new environment. Visual range was much shorter, shadows really made things murky, turning off your engine to blend in worked too perfectly. And no one setting up the GV combat areas had a clue to just how dense and claustrophobic the trees\clutter are. A common complaint was how long it took to drive short distances to get whacked by invisible tanks for your trouble.
When I built my first AH3 terrain I drove every single GV combat area I created to understand how GVer's felt about the tree\clutter. It is claustrophobic, very few places to see long distances, let alone snipe at long range like was so popular about ah2. Even with my setting up my first terrain with long range open spaces to see, now everyone hides in the deepest trees\clutter they can find along those open vistas and crawls afraid of being ambushed. My first terrain took me 6 months with very specific testing of all the ground combat areas to try and resolve some of these issues. My second terrain that I'm about to submit to Hitech for evaluation, once again I've spent months on it with extensive testing of the GV combat areas to try and alleviate some of the claustrophobic conditions. AH3 is different than AH2 and after almost a year, it appears the general GVing players have decided the AH3 trees\clutter requires sneaking around while paranoid about ambushes. I've been applying a grass tile to the farmland\village tile I'm using for GV spawns and combat around towns. Because when I drive these areas to test the spawns, even with the rice paddies and other crop feilds and fewer trees. There are too many places to hide behind bushes or bamboo thickets and it make me paranoid about driving tanks in the game.
In WW2 tanks often had some kind of scouting team or plane to spot for them, otherwise they got ambushed which happened a lot in western Europe. In AH2 the localized terrain for GV combat were setup a bit more like the open feilds and forests on the Russian front where you could see the enemy tanks a long way off. The AH3 tree and clutter realism is adding a level of paranoia and stress to the GV game I doubt existed in AH2 by the reactive amount of vitriol and anger in players forum responses.
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Maybe HTC is trying to reduce the 2 minute missions and making planning, stealth, and patience a bigger part of battle...........just like in real life.
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I miss the little hills that were every where in AH2 that would give some chance of cover from enemy gvs. Or hiding spots also I suppose. The tanktown in crater ma is sorely missed I think by GVers. There was some awesome fun there killing and getting killed with the various spawns and center town. :joystick:
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Maybe HTC is trying to reduce the 2 minute missions and making planning, stealth, and patience a bigger part of battle...........just like in real life.
We got us a modern day Patton over here... :rolleyes:
Everyone stop trying to compare what in game should be like because of real life...if that were the case resupply would be a nightmare and not as easy as 123 like it is now.
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As GV'ers know, the hidden hunted has the advantage over the moving hunter. In typical terrain in ah3, the hunted has even more of an advantage than ah2.
Keep in mind the great tank battles in ah2 had two distinct features. A short trip to the battle then instant action.
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I like the tank fights in AH3...just wish we had small hills again
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I've tried to create them, the underlying polymesh is 1\8x1\8mile squares. I can pull up the center of 4 of those due to how the polymesh wire frame is laid out, which ends up creating a highlands instead of tiny berms. Highlands promotes players off the spawn hiding at a distance firing down on the town and not getting into combat at the town. This new generation of realistic terrain tiles is promoting that kind of GV combat now.
If I remember correctly, someone told me the berms you guys lament over were a clutter tile with those built onto it as small objects. Wishlist for berm objects like the hills at the town and hope a terrain builder wants to invest an enormous amount of time and effort to place them into the terrain and test them for GV combat. Untill then, I'm using grass to radically thin out the farmland\village tile on the current terrain I'm finishing up so the long open spaces are reminiscent of AH2 tree\clutter tiles. By now having spent so much time testing the ground for GV usability, I have a good idea how to salt in berm objects if they were every given back to terrain builders.
Hitech might have decided that berm "objects" may have in AH2, and might contribute to FPS issues due to loading down a small area with objects. Right now I'm hoping all the single bridge objects I put into my new terrain will be OK from that perspective when Hitech reviews it for the Melee arena. He did not want me to simply ad-hoce drop in factory building objects to create my own custom factory complex on the center island of my new terrain. That is why I went with the Tank Town 2x2mile default object from the objects list which is sanctioned for all of it's objects to be in the game.
There can be more going on here than you think for why something is not in the game. And I still could be guessing about the berm objects and FPS.
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It's a big combat avoindance mechanism, better than any we had before.
I can sit, engine running, in the strats taking them down. I don't even need to listen, I just watch the clipboard. The landing button goes red long before we both being in noise range. I can quickly dart away, either to land or, even better to go into hiding. When I do that under tree cover, even planes can hardly find me at all. And I know all the time if an enemy is still around or not.
In AH2, when I heard the enemy for the first time, he was already well inside my 'safe landing distance'
It's similar with capture of vehicle bases, once the enemy gets to approximetaly within landing range he will stop and just check the detector. If red, he simply backs up a few hundred yard and tower out.
OK; I see what you're saying; makes sense. I misinterpreted you to be concerned about the sound detection we have always had for GVs.
MH
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Re "berms": AH3 actually has a feature much better than the old pyramidal berms. You can see it in action in the tank town of CraterMA and actually in the hilly vehicle base. These are "square objects" and the topography of the ground inside these objects is defined not by the underlying 1/8 mile x 1/8 mile grid, but by a separate object grid of arbitrarily fine resolution. You can see this clearly by using the object editor to export the medium vehicle base (or is it the large vehicle base, anyway the one with hills) to AC3D and then viewing it in wireframe mode. You can see very high resolution in some of the rock faces of some of the hills, particularly the one to the front & left of the spawn hanger.
If someone wanted to they could create a "square object", say 4 mile x 4 mile, that exactly matches the old AH2 CraterMA tank town area, complete with "berms". Of course, you can't add custom square objects to MA terrains unless the object is officially approved by HTC and added to the standard construction set.
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It's a big combat avoindance mechanism, better than any we had before.
I can sit, engine running, in the strats taking them down. I don't even need to listen, I just watch the clipboard. The landing button goes red long before we both being in noise range. I can quickly dart away, either to land or, even better to go into hiding. When I do that under tree cover, even planes can hardly find me at all. And I know all the time if an enemy is still around or not.
In AH2, when I heard the enemy for the first time, he was already well inside my 'safe landing distance'
It's similar with capture of vehicle bases, once the enemy gets to approximately within landing range he will stop and just check the detector. If red, he simply backs up a few hundred yard and tower out.
I once made an even more gamey use of the Red/Green End Sortie feature. Someone was making a base flash forever so I spawned a Jeep into the area and drove away from the base, stopping periodically, until the End Sortie went green. I noted that position on the map, towered, and repeated again from a different spawn. Now I had two points on the map and could draw two circles of radius equal to the "Warning distance" setting. Those two circles intersect at two points on the map. I drove my Jeep to the more likely point and there was the (probably AFK) base flasher.
Then again, this "exploit" requires so much tedious work that I doubt it is something to worry about.
The End Sortie thing does have a positive game helping use however. On some maps enemy airbases can be within, or nearly within, the radar range of a vehicle base and action there can cause the vehicle base to flash forever. I spawn a Jeep from the VH onto the grass and check the End Sortie to verify whether or not vehicles are inbound to attack the base or it's just aircraft elsewhere. Without the feature you'd have to sit on the base forever waiting for enemy vehicles to show up.
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It is obvious that HT is his own worst enemy in this game. Catering to a few players whines is what is driving the majority of players away, but this is the way it has always been and will be till the games ends.
I remember that Bruv. CraterMA was originally designed with three airbases on the inner raised step of the crater but before I finished it HTC said they didn't want any "fighter town" MA maps so I took them out.
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It is obvious that HT is his own worst enemy in this game. Catering to a few players whines is what is driving the majority of players away games ends.
Which whines had he recently catered to?
For if this really works, I would like to get very vocal again about a thing or two... :noid
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I've tried to create them, the underlying polymesh is 1\8x1\8mile squares. I can pull up the center of 4 of those due to how the polymesh wire frame is laid out, which ends up creating a highlands instead of tiny berms. Highlands promotes players off the spawn hiding at a distance firing down on the town and not getting into combat at the town. This new generation of realistic terrain tiles is promoting that kind of GV combat now.
If I remember correctly, someone told me the berms you guys lament over were a clutter tile with those built onto it as small objects. Wishlist for berm objects like the hills at the town and hope a terrain builder wants to invest an enormous amount of time and effort to place them into the terrain and test them for GV combat. Untill then, I'm using grass to radically thin out the farmland\village tile on the current terrain I'm finishing up so the long open spaces are reminiscent of AH2 tree\clutter tiles. By now having spent so much time testing the ground for GV usability, I have a good idea how to salt in berm objects if they were every given back to terrain builders.
Hitech might have decided that berm "objects" may have in AH2, and might contribute to FPS issues due to loading down a small area with objects. Right now I'm hoping all the single bridge objects I put into my new terrain will be OK from that perspective when Hitech reviews it for the Melee arena. He did not want me to simply ad-hoce drop in factory building objects to create my own custom factory complex on the center island of my new terrain. That is why I went with the Tank Town 2x2mile default object from the objects list which is sanctioned for all of it's objects to be in the game.
There can be more going on here than you think for why something is not in the game. And I still could be guessing about the berm objects and FPS.
The center area of Greebo's crater MA has some nice terraform in it...issue is you have to drive an hour to get to it which defeats the purpose of a tank town. Was awesome when you could up and shoot at another tank that just upped from their spawn but still had some stand off that it wasn't quite a spawn camp.
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Unless Waffle creates a tile or a berm object, I have no berms I can place into the terrain in AH3. Other than the factory facility I replaced with a 200ft tree covered mound, no one uses the tank pit crater in the center of BowlMA anymore. Hitech had the AH2 factory facility object removed from the terrain editor and he would not let me manually duplicate it for AH3 on the new terrain I'm building.
So with the AH3 tank town object and bridge objects, here is the center of my new terrain. Each country has 4 GV spawns to get into the center and 1 PT spawn to play in the canal shooting at tanks on the bridges. The 4th GV spawn is from a nearby base to give you the chance to take back your airfield or keep GV fighting when the bish mini hoard decides to take all the feilds in that crater because they won't be defended.
The one certain thing about terrain design, you have zero idea how players will really respond to it's features, it's always one giant Guess that you give months of your life to. I really wish you experts would build terrains since you seem to know the secret to getting past this fact of terrain building so I can see how to do it. Hindsight is easy after the community plays on a terrain for a few years. I also thinned out the village tile I'm using for GV spawns and the area surrounding towns, to just about AH2 standards so you guys can see each other. That thinness helped spawn campers and made everyone scream in these forums for something to stop spawn camping. Makes me wonder if the new thick clutter tiles were Hitech hearing your demands to do something about spawn camping. I left the 1\2 mile area of the spawn circle AH3 standard thick clutter or even added trees to fill empty spots.
At this point I'm thinking I've done everything I can to catch boo boo's and other issues on this terrain, so I'm getting ready to ask if I can submit it for evaluation. Just like the new saying on the title page for the game goes, math I wish you would solve your own problems. I wish you guys would build terrains and show the rest of us how it's done right.
(https://s20.postimg.org/kaz3vcwb1/oceania269.jpg)
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The center area of Greebo's crater MA has some nice terraform in it...issue is you have to drive an hour to get to it which defeats the purpose of a tank town. Was awesome when you could up and shoot at another tank that just upped from their spawn but still had some stand off that it wasn't quite a spawn camp.
I agree with this. Would be nice if the spawns could be moved further into that area to allow more immediate action.
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In that screen capture, the center of the island is the same tank town object that is in the center of Greebo's CraterMA. Those 1\2 dia circles are GV spawns and they are inside of tank town.
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It looks good Bustr. :aok
We thank you for all the time and effort you put into these maps. Yes it is easy to criticize but critics are essential to good art. :bolt:
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Then no one would create art.
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Randy you now just noticed that? They just keep screwing with the GV'er cause it impacts the Fur Ball....plain and simple
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Randy you now just noticed that? They just keep screwing with the GV'er cause it impacts the Fur Ball....plain and simple
List the changes that make the furballs better that take away from the ground game...
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What furballs? It's been a long time since I saw some genuine furballs out there. These days, that label is frequently attached to things that are just failed base capture attempts... :headscratch:
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List the changes that make the furballs better that take away from the ground game...
They took 1 of multiple ways for me to get troops into a base away! :bolt:
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What furballs? It's been a long time since I saw some genuine furballs out there. These days, that label is frequently attached to things that are just failed base capture attempts... :headscratch:
This
They took 1 of multiple ways for me to get troops into a base away! :bolt:
:rofl I don't know how troop carries helps the furballs
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Strange how you know what all players want.
HiTech
looking around i don't know if you do anymore sir, even I want to quit. And I am a big fan of your work.
But I look at dwindling numbers and see that I don't see any fights anymore.
Also since I have no way of combating stalking 2nd accounts. Or people using 2nd accounts to get ships sunk or find protectors of flags. I like so many will be moving on to something else despite my love of your game.
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Or people using 2nd accounts to get ships sunk
The vast majority of those claims are just rubbish kneejerk reactions.
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The vast majority of those claims are just rubbish kneejerk reactions.
And since the large maps are out of rotation, it makes looking for a CV a relatively easy task, especially with some of the newer maps. But even with the larger old maps, if a CV was hidden, I can guarantee I know within a 4 grid area where it was hidden depending on what side of the map. No spies needed.
Same with tracking dar bars to strats to shoot down buffs, or assuming which undefended base off the main front Bish are going to try and sneak next...
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And since the large maps are out of rotation, it makes looking for a CV a relatively easy task, especially with some of the newer maps. But even with the larger old maps, if a CV was hidden, I can guarantee I know within a 4 grid area where it was hidden depending on what side of the map. No spies needed.
Same with tracking dar bars to strats to shoot down buffs, or assuming which undefended base off the main front Bish are going to try and sneak next...
Just yesterday. My sides' CV was sneaking to a non active part of a map. Then bombers took off to sink it. Immediately the accusations started. When I pointed out that it was just sitting off a base, so that it easily could have been spotted, the reply was "But they had no reason to look!" :rolleyes:
(Sorry, you folks might forget about CV's until the base starts to flash but this player regularly checks coastal bases by .dt command and in person.)
Or on Grinder a small map with very few places to 'hide' a CV.
My side did just this. Enemies are scouting for it, along the coast. One set of bombers flies several sectors along the coast, unopposed. Then, when he finally entered the CVs' dar, "SHADES! How else did he knew it was there" - By effn checking every other sector until he finally found it! :bhead
Even better, the CV wasn't sunk, so the enemy came back half an hour later. Of course, this time on a more direct course. "CHEATS! SHADES! SPIES! He flew directly to it, that proves it!"
I could give hundreds of such examples, literally. Not even counting those where I was the accused myself...
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The vast majority of those claims are just rubbish kneejerk reactions.
horse poop i can send you the film of dude sending CV's to each other. but you keep thinking you are correct. its working so well as we all can see.
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Great! Prove it, send in those films.
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horse poop i can send you the film of dude sending CV's to each other. but you keep thinking you are correct. its working so well as we all can see.
If you really read my post, you'll find out that I did not write: "It never happens" :)
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If you really read my post, you'll find out that I did not write: "It never happens" :)
ya well you will change your tune if you are the one targeted
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ya well you will change your tune if you are the one targeted
Targeted?
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have no way of combating stalking 2nd accounts. Or people using 2nd accounts to get ships sunk or find protectors of flags.
The vast majority of those claims are just rubbish kneejerk reactions.
Very possibly true however the point is that a very big population BELIEVE this is true and use it as a point when describing AH3. This is the "face" that many see when checking out the game. With so many people BELIEVING this point and telling new customers.... " Ah well the mission was busted due to a guy cheating using a second account" how many players do you think are turned off and move on to something else?
I know there are reasons for HTC allowing second accounts but I think they should have more restrictions and those should be posted and easily found by any one wondering. A big one should be that a second account can NEVER be used on any team other than the original/parent account. This should be a software lock and checked everytime the second, or more account logs in. This would take away the "second account spy" issue.
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A big one should be that a second account can NEVER be used on any team other than the original/parent account. This should be a software lock and checked everytime the second, or more account logs in. This would take away the "second account spy" issue.
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There would be so many workarounds that it's not worth the hassle at all.
And it would not stop the morons to scream foul play each time something bad hapens to them either.
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Very possibly true however the point is that a very big population BELIEVE this is true and use it as a point when describing AH3. This is the "face" that many see when checking out the game. With so many people BELIEVING this point and telling new customers.... " Ah well the mission was busted due to a guy cheating using a second account" how many players do you think are turned off and move on to something else?
I know there are reasons for HTC allowing second accounts but I think they should have more restrictions and those should be posted and easily found by any one wondering. A big one should be that a second account can NEVER be used on any team other than the original/parent account. This should be a software lock and checked everytime the second, or more account logs in. This would take away the "second account spy" issue.
Let me get this straight, because people think there is a problem something must be done about it even if there isn't a problem. I've got a suggestion especially for long term players, stop complaining about something when there really isn't a problem. That makes you part of the problem. The more you talk about this conspiracy the more credability you give it.
Once more, as Wiley has said, if this is actually happening, what's the worst possible outcome? A fight ensues. Heaven forbid!
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Let me get this straight, because people think there is a problem something must be done about it even if there isn't a problem. I've got a suggestion especially for long term players, stop complaining about something when there really isn't a problem. That makes you part of the problem. The more you talk about this conspiracy the more credability you give it.
Once more, as Wiley has said, if this is actually happening, what's the worst possible outcome? A fight ensues. Heaven forbid!
But there is a problem, the game is getting a reputation for allowing cheats. I KNOW that there is NO cheating going on. I believe that HTC does a great job of keeping that crap out of the game. The point is the reputation the game is getting from HTC not stamping out the "second account cheaters", and any other stupid thing that gets bantered about. Take the reviewing film thread, a player just about came out and said they wanted to use the film playback to cheat and find enemies. :rolleyes:
Hitech did come in and post in that thread and it pretty much killed it there. I just think they need to be more proactive in shutting down the "gossip" about all of these work arounds people are trying, or believe are being used.
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A second account to get around the side switch time is sometimes needed to find a fight.
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A second account to get around the side switch time is sometimes needed to find a fight.
Well thats a whole other issue. If the numbers weren't so low, if there were more players willing to fight instead or avoid fights, if missions involved attack AND defense then nobody would have to switch sides, but on the other hand I dont see that big an issue with changing the time down to an hour or two instead of the six we have now.
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Well thats a whole other issue. If the numbers weren't so low, if there were more players willing to fight instead or avoid fights, if missions involved attack AND defense then nobody would have to switch sides, but on the other hand I dont see that big an issue with changing the time down to an hour or two instead of the six we have now.
3 hours is actually the better rate, and it still intervals with a 24 hour period.
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But there is a problem, the game is getting a reputation for allowing cheats. I KNOW that there is NO cheating going on. I believe that HTC does a great job of keeping that crap out of the game. The point is the reputation the game is getting from HTC not stamping out the "second account cheaters", and any other stupid thing that gets bantered about.
It gets "bantered about" by people who say they know it isn't a problem yet continue to keep posting about it as though it is. What is it you want... a clearly stated policy on 2nd accounts that would do what? Work about as well as forum posting Rule#7?
Look, if someone is THAT determined to cheat, there is nothing stopping them from finding a way to have another legal, second account (their neighbor, for example) from which they could tap for information. It is what it is. What would stop any of that stuff cold is players not taking part in it. For example, if someone types on country channel that an enemy CV is at such-and-such location, I look on the map and if the guy reporting it isn't right close by to where it's reported, then I will not do anything with that info, I don't care if it loses the war. Same for NOE raid reports. Same for GV locations. If it smells rotten, just have nothing to do with it. If people have to resort to that kind of tactic to win something, too bad for them.
I've heard these accusations so many times while at the same time knowing the real reasons why supposedly "top secret" plans were found out. Sometimes it's just planes dar popping. Once I was landing a set of bombers and happened to overfly a tank as I'm approaching the field. I upped an A-20 and killed him. All I heard for an hour is how I "cheated" because I should not have known he was there because the base wasn't flashing (yet). And so it goes with most of these crazy accusations. One fellow countryman that I know flies with a joystick that's about 20 yrs old and falling apart because he can't afford a replacement... yet I'm supposed to believe he's operating multiple accounts just to know where some CV is? The guy doesn't even fly bombers fergoshsake.
I believe most of this stuff is just people butt hurt because they made a plan and it didn't work. That happens (plan failed) all the time to me, just ask Zoney or Snailman or Atlou. I add to their fighter stats regularly and they always seem to know where I'm going and at what alt. Yet I'd never even consider that they are shading me because I'm not running some complicated op, I'm simply flying bombers to a target that attracts bombers. They know it, they watch dar, and it's not hard to figure out what I'm up to. Same can be said for any NOE mission or any CV location. We've all had a turn on that side of the terrain, we know where we'd want the CV, so we go looking there. Nothing complicated about it.