Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bustr on October 12, 2017, 05:30:09 PM
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These are screen shots from my new terrain Oceania I'm using to test the latest version of the cloud editor and a whole arena weather cloud system. Clouds don't cause FPS hits like they used to when I tested the last version against my terrain BowlMA by being near them. Flying up thorough heavy clouds my FPS dipped into the 40's for a moment and cleared as soon as I got close to the outside of the cloud to exit it. I only have a GTX 760 card. And so far I can't break this thing like I did almost daily when I was testing the previous version. I'm in 1024 texture mode with shadows turned on and sliders at the default.
On the ground in a GV, if I pushed all sliders to the max, FPS dipped as low as 12 under cloud shadows and raised to 20-30 depending on the trees and clutter. Personally I don't play the game with shadows on, its as bad as night time where each cloud shadow is. Shadows are on for my testing purposes while I try to make this thing give me a dmp file, so far it's been boring and steady. All of the minimizing to the desktop and re-entering today isn't creating a dmp file either. When the program has an unexpected halt, a dmp file of the incident is dropped into the game's temp folder to submit in the Bug forum. I'm still paranoid about last time but, everything Hitech said he fixed from the last version is working. I'm probably being silly about this.
Here are 10 screen shots from my testing, and you get to see what it looks like on the outside of the arena.
(https://s20.postimg.org/x0kjtn6a5/Oc40Cld01.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/v29ahwoel/Oc40Cld02.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/5opasb1jh/Oc40Cld03.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/kpmzvtuvh/Oc40Cld04.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/83ckyzsel/Oc40Cld09.jpg)
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Nice Buster! Looks like the real thing.
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There is a 5 picture limit to each page, this group has the look on the outside of the arena.
(https://s20.postimg.org/83ckyzsel/Oc40Cld09.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/cnyrdxc3x/Oc40Cld06.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/e5k7phgul/Oc40Cld07.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/m633rpn65/Oc40Cld08.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/6jbuec9e5/Oc40Cld10.jpg)
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Thank Hitech, he made all of this possible for me to accomplish.
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Thanks Hitech .
Thanks Bustr.
Those clouds look really nice!
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:aok
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Are the "Kick to desktop" instances based on reduced performance of Graphics card? If so...do you know why? Looking good, SIR :rock
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WTG, looks awesome! Gotta love clouds!
DutchVII
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The new clouds look really good Bustr. I was never a fan of the AHIII'S original clouds, they looked obviously fake to my eyes.
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Very cool :aok
Goat
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They look awesome! I'd like to have a couple cloud sets for special event maps!
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For some reason yesterday when I would copy links from my host then paste them in here, the previous screen capture's copied link would paste. The top screen shot is one that happened to. Because this terrain is a 10x10, and all work spaces are 20x20. There is another 10x10 of water surrounding this 10x10 arena. My solution was to raise all 4 edges to 19.5k and pull glacier cuts and runoff canyons down to the water where I built all of the volcanic islands. I wanted to show both sides of the edge of the map boarder as screen shots.
Inside of the edge of the map.
(https://s20.postimg.org/g2lj7swwd/Oc40_Cld05.jpg)
Outside of the edge of the map.
(https://s20.postimg.org/e5k7phgul/Oc40Cld07.jpg)
As a joke I dropped in some glaciers for the strat raiders to look at in all three countries. :O
(https://s20.postimg.org/o1xgsl9fx/oceania250.jpg)
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is there any way of randomising the heights / thickness and layers.
It still looks a little 2 dimensional to me.
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is there any way of randomising the heights / thickness and layers.
It still looks a little 2 dimensional to me.
But isn't that the way clouds are in real life? i.e., don't they tend to form at a particular altitude due to atmospheric variables? And they tend to dissipate at roughly the same height (e.g. climbing out through the cloud deck)?
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You will have to ask Hitech about the 3D structure of this generation of clouds, he or Waffle built them. I'm using his clouds that are available from the menu. I have a restriction of making sure there is a minimum of 40 miles between logical blocks of clouds out of that menu so you don't take FPS hits processing two moving cloud groups. After that I have control of time duration, direction, alt, and speed of travel. The clouds do grow some as they travel and gain alt over a range you can define.
I chose cloud groups based on what kinds of clouds will generate at what elevations over the underlying landscape. I also chose 10k as the minimum alt after testing because any lower creates a sense of claustrophobia which gets worse if you enable shadows. The high alt cirrus layer I chose is the thinnest one because the thicker you make them, the more they add to visual confusion and claustrophobia when coupled with groups of clouds and cuts down on light in general to a degree.
The new cloud editor allows you to create your own clouds, so contact Hitech with any questions on that part of the new cloud editor. I do not know the procedure to have any of your own clouds used in the Melee arena. It's easier for me to use the existing menu of clouds knowing Hitech has passed them for use in the MA.
Don't shoot the messenger..... :O
Note: Clouds that move in from over an edge of the map are set to 12,000-15,000. Clouds that are near the opposite edge of the map and will pass off the map edge in transit are 10,000-13,000 to look like the land heat is raising up the clouds from over the water. Clouds inside of the four edges of the map passing over islands and water are 8,000-10,000. Having an issue with a sense of 2Dishness is an illusion because of how I chose to take the screen captures to show off Hitech's new clouds to this audience. And the 40 mile separation from other cloud blocks so you have nothing to use as a perspective. Also this map is an area of 250milesx250miles, in the real world often an area like that does not have large variations in cloud elevation unless you live next to a mountain range.
I found over the years I didn't like aspects of the game and Hitech had other things to deal with than my gripes. So I have given terrains a shot to solve some of my gripes and now clouds. Everyone is free to go for it and enchant the community with their vision of the game. I could not change the structure of the clouds if I wanted to for MA use, these is what we gots.
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But isn't that the way clouds are in real life? i.e., don't they tend to form at a particular altitude due to atmospheric variables? And they tend to dissipate at roughly the same height (e.g. climbing out through the cloud deck)?
I tried to keep this in mind when I laid out my weather system and in the cloud menu Hitech did to. Oh, back when Hitech first released the new generation cloud editor, I built a Cumulonimbus and blew my FPS to pieces. That is probably why there is not one in the cloud menu. Testing it I even lost my bearings inside of it and ended up in the ground from a dive I couldn't pull out of. There may still be an FPS reason to not having clouds with a lot of vertical structure like cumulus. As you can see from the jpeg most clouds are in layers at an elevation.
Before I created my weather system I brushed up a bit on clouds, just like I did on Pacific volcanic islands before I built Oceania.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Cloud_types.jpg)
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Just to be fair since I'm throwing around concepts about the cloud editor and very few players ever look in it, here is what is in the cloud editor. You can make cloud files for any terrain file in the list of terrain files under the ah3terr folder. Those are the files with .res extensions, then play with them offline. Click on File and you will see "open terrain" in the drop down. So for Bruv, here is his chance to see if he can come up with what he wants. Just push buttons and see what happens. That is all I did with the terrain editor and then the cloud editor. Hitech made them both user friendly to help promote game content. I keep asking my wife to erase the bullseye they paint on my back each time I open them... :O
What I followed as guidelines.
1. - Keep the cloud blocks minimum 40 miles apart to not effect FPS. You can see the 40 mile separations between white blocks. Hitech set this rule, I'm assuming from his testing.
2. - Set a cirrus layer above the clouds 30k or higher. If you use thicker layers than thin, visually it just clogs up how things look. They should be about 30k or higher.
3. - I decided to use clouds in the manner they form related to altitude.
4. - I chose to have all cloud blocks move NE at the same speed, spawn time, life span, and cool down time. Simple way not to violated the 40 mile rule between blocks.
5. - Current map is Oceania and I've expanded the cloud list showing the default 15 offerings.
(https://s20.postimg.org/pegrw8o7h/Nw_Cld_Edt.jpg)
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Very nice, Bustr! :aok
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bustr,
Are all these cloud layers opaque when using a bomb sight or just certain ones?
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In the game, if it's even a small puffyball, you cannot see through it but, with the balls there are many small openings to see down through. Hitech's cloud layers have openings, just the size of the individual clouds varies as they do in the real world. Cirrus layers you can see through in degrees from thin-thick. I set the one for this terrain starting at 30k and it's thin. The clouds I used at the strats, you should be able to see through openings or, just go around and try again, even come in below the layers.
And then there are those 40 mile strips of air with no clouds at all.
You can test all of this offline with any terrain file in your ah3terr folder by making a cloud file and running it to test all of the 15 types in the menu if it's that important to you. So far none of Hitech's cloud blocks I've chosen have configurations that block level bombing.
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:aok Very nice! Any chance in colliding into unseen mountains :O
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I have no interest in rigging a cloud box for things like that, I'm looking at the underlying terrain and putting a box over it of the type and reasonable alt they would form. If I was, I'd just use the solid overcast cover and set it to 3000ft and be done with it. Then everyone would be in the frying pan together.
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Testing cirrocumulous.
(https://s20.postimg.org/56eiu0rrx/Oc40Cld11.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/nyqdxmj19/Oc40Cld12.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/p10kg5ep9/Oc40Cld13.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/7nqa1a3yl/Oc40Cld14.jpg)
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A quiet moment on central Mindnao.
(https://s20.postimg.org/vyd4bkrnh/Oc40_Cld15.jpg)
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Pictures 1 and 4, the clouds don't look realistic because there are way too many small ones. A few that size here and there or small ones among some really large ones would look more real. The others look fantastic.
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Feel free to make clouds, the new cloud editor has that ability.
Then submit to Hitech to see if he will allow it in the MA. Otherwise the cirrocumulos look about like what I spent time today looking at photos of. Hitech is a pilot and spends time with the clouds we have. Also, those in the screen shot, I was about 30k looking down at them and they are at 15k. It's all frame of reference and size perspective in the arena. I was using CM eye mode and not fixed position perspective. Once I build a weather file, I have to fly around the arena in CM mode at up to 20000 and faster to see everything close up and far away.
So, open the cloud editor and show us how to do it right so we will know how.
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That's not going to happen, bustr. I don't have time to spend hours and days and weeks learning a program on a trial and error basis just to make clouds. If I had that kind of time, I'd fly more often.
I assumed you posted the pictures to get feedback, and that's what I provided. I guess that my assumption was ill founded. I simply stated that in my opinion the clouds in two of your pictures did not look real AND the others looked exceptionally real. You don't seem to have any problem accepting kudos but when someone suggests something doesn't look quite real it's go make your own.
I really don't care if you put non-realistic clouds in the game or not. They are about as important to the game as trees or what color the bomber hangars are; nice window dressing, but ultimately of little importance.
For what it's worth, I am a licensed pilot also though I fail to see how that makes any difference in judging posted photos.
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I grew up flying around the world, my late father soloed in a glider at Dunstible Downs, England 1960 towed by Tiger Moths. And started powered flight training out of the Peshawar airport in Austers. He retired a multi engined commercial instructor just before he would take his ride to get a jet ticket. FAA grounded him for a pace maker. I got dragged along by him since I was 5 in may types around the world. I've seen Hitech's popcorn cirrocumulus in the Hindu Kush and around the world.
Posting these screen shots is just to show you guys someone is working on clouds for terrains. If I was posting for advice I would have asked for advice. I don't do that because it turns into "step aside sonny boy and let an expert trash your day". While none of the experts have ever created cloud files or clouds or terrains. And their opinions about something in a 3D computer emulation like clouds and terrains end up being, I'm told how to sculpt an elephant by a group of blind art critics who just handled a statue of a Wooki.
The clouds in the menu are Hitech's and I used them with concern to game play and type at elevation over terrain. And reported my observations on FPS issues as I was testing the clouds as weather system on terrains. It does not take very long to learn the cloud editor if you want to show Hitech how to do it right in your "opinion". There is one cumulus sheet, street formation type I don't agree with the ultimate cross sectional shape once it fully forms, so I didn't use it. It never forms out of a square\rectangular cross section along the streets so I won't make players look at that, it just looks strange. And pictures of it in here would have someone up in arms with an "opinion".
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It does not take very long to learn the cloud editor if you want to show Hitech how to do it right in your "opinion".
This right here demonstrates the fundamental misunderstanding you have about my comments. You are taking them as if I am saying something YOU did is WRONG... when I'm not saying that at all. All I said was that, in my opinion, a collection of small clouds so densely packed in one area of sky doesn't give the appearance of a "real" looking sky, while some of your other efforts look extremely realistic. It's just a comment.. do with it what you will, including taking no action OR ignoring it, I don't care. I didn't say you should change it; I didn't say your effort was worth less in any way. In fact, I said it doesn't really matter because they're just window dressing and don't effect game play.
That said, I think you ARE mistaken when you equate someone's ability to judge how realistic an image appears to them on the basis of whether they choose to (or not) devote the time to learn a graphics editing program. This seems to me the same as saying no one should ever disagree about the coverage of a news story unless they first go get a journalism degree, or they shouldn't form a political opinion about anything unless they first run for office.
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Ummm.... ok Zener.
Moving along. Clouds look nice Bustr. Do we have the ability to have simple overcast layers?
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Ummm.... ok Zener.
Moving along. Clouds look nice Bustr. Do we have the ability to have simple overcast layers?
All talk and no apparent action.
Also moving along. Ditto with Fork’s question. A thick overcast at a couple thousand feet AGL would introduce a new level of challenge to the air con/gv conflict.
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I tested that option, it's in the menu, dropped my FPS in the bucket. The weather files for the MA terrains I had to test specifically for FPS issues so game play would not be impacted.
Anyone of you can open the cloud editor, point at a terrain in your ah3terr folder, the CBM map will be pulled up, and build a weather file to test offline on that terrain. Just remember to keep a 40 mile separation from the other cloud blocks if you are trying to get Hitech to accept it as a weather file for the terrain you are testing it on.
Save the file into the chconfig\<terrname> folder as the name of that terrain, so you see a file terrname.awa there. As soon as you open that terrain for offline play, your cloud file will launch itself for you to test. Then either remember where you put your cloud blocks or get CM eye mode setup to go look at them.
I found on 10x10 terrains a 1 hour life span at 56 mph works about best for cloud blocks to eventually cover much of the terrain. Depending on the terrain configuration, traveling at a diagonal or up down or left right will give the best coverage. If you do not set all cloud blocks to the same speed and life span, you will violate the 40 mile separation. If you want to get really arcane and geeky, you can setup many over lapping cloud blocks covering the whole terrain and set their start\stop and life span times so they avoid each other while keeping a 40 mile separation at different intervals around the 7 day life span of the arena. Think of it as a 7 day changing weather pattern. It's a bite to get the timing right, I tested that with the previous version of the cloud editor.
I even had your socked in layer running across the runway of a 4k airfield forcing me to use instruments to navigate. While it was very realistic, the average player wouldn't up from that field or go near it for the PITA it would be for game play. Half the time I'd be on final and the cloud layer would white out my last 500ft and kill me, the other half of the time I flew in circles above the field missing seeing it through the clouds. I think Hitech put the minimum\maximum for the cloud types in the editor menu for a reason even though it's OK to have cloud layers cut through the tops of mountain ranges. I asked about things like that when he ask me to make some weather files for the MA terrains. But, it never hurts to ask him your self to clarify.
Weather files are one thing I can change in minutes if he asks me to. Just test what you want offline before asking him to kill his customers game play experience by dropping their FPS in the bucket for a cloud layer.
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Thanks for the info Bustr. Was more or less thinking of a 7000' or a 15,000' cloud layer so that exact issue when landing would never happen for a pilot.. It's about changing up the gameplay in an arena - and having a day where we have lower cloud layers would do just that and add true weather realism to Aces High.
:salute
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Test for FPS by flying in those clouds you talk about level, slowly, for 10 seconds dead center if you decide to try this.
I eliminated using all but two of the cumulus offerings in the menu for that reason. And getting your cloud block centered on a single field for this wonder fullness, what about the rest of the terrain and the required 40mile separation of cloud blocks? You will have players in these forums screeching at Hitech if you push all the blocks together to make a full weather front across the terrain. Weather in the MA is an eye candy illusion using clouds that look like their real world counterparts set at the same alts depending on terrain in a grid with 40miles of separation between eyecandy blocks.
Even if I can make one file run a swap out of different cloud block configurations over 7 days. It will be the clouds in the menu provided by Hitech that I have tested with 40 mile separations on blocks. The editor will allow you to build clouds, you will have to test them against FPS drops that will impact paying customers in the MA. But, I think that feature is more for the AvA and special arena terrain builders. Still, if you come up with a goody and it passes the FPS impact issue, send it to Hitech.
Before doing any of this, see if Hitech will accept socking in fields in the MA with weather files like you want.
I did some testing for you gents with the 500ft 50milex50mile sock in layer from the cloud editor. Pay attention to the frame rates and, do you intend to punish players with this thing by making them crash every time they fly into it? Just like engine management that Hitech doesn't want to saddle players with, anyone want to learn instrument flying do you think....
Layer is set for 7000, top at 12,000. Notice by just being near the bottom and top I'm taking an FPS hit which was part of the criterion for what clouds I used for the MA terrain weather files I built. The default view in your cockpit being the most complex will take the greatest FPS hit
(https://s20.postimg.org/uhlmasezx/sockin01.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/p66pq25rx/sockin02.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/c215ddt5p/sockin03.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/ejcwknshp/sockin04.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/5oc2a4gjx/sockin05.jpg)
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Right on. Puma and I were thinking maybe a 500 ft thickness to get complete coverage?
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You can try to build a 500ft thick cloud layer, most cloud blocks are between 2000-3000 to give them body. But, you will have to build it yourself. Other than that, you can use layers since they are cosmetic and Hitech wants them at 25-45k because of that. Those high alt cirrus sheets. So after you build one cloud to represent your "sock-in", you still have to populate a 3 dimensional cloud block for the MA. Check the second tab in the cloud editor tieled "Cloud", so far we are talking about the results for the "Weather" tab where the finished clouds and blocks become a weather system.
The first three screen shots below 5 cirrus Heavy layers, not cloud blocks, one at every 100ft from 7000-7500, looks hoaky inside, but cosmetically like a "sock in" on the the outside. You could even do 10, one every 50ft like the last screen shot. Good luck convincing Hitech to allow this, those layers cover the entire arena. You guys need to learn how to make weather files and start testing this yourselves offline and learn why clouds are simply cosmetic. Otherwise we've reached the point you have given up on splitting hairs and moved onto splitting hair molecules over the subject.
A Heavy layer 7000-7500ft, 5 layers from 7000 to 7500 every 100ft.
(https://s20.postimg.org/am80e5mbx/sockin06.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/48ixaw20d/sockin079.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/6d3abzbct/sockin08.jpg)
Center of same 7000-7500 with a layer every 50ft. All 2D and no depth of 3D illusion.
(https://s20.postimg.org/gbsuc8zwd/sockin010.jpg)
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But isn't that the way clouds are in real life? i.e., don't they tend to form at a particular altitude due to atmospheric variables? And they tend to dissipate at roughly the same height (e.g. climbing out through the cloud deck)?
I think he may be thinking of Cumulus or Cumulonimbus clouds. I think the AH clouds are more like Altocumulus.
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On of the cirrocumulus offerings should be labeled altocumulus, but, I tested that one, and those clouds will eat your FPS if you use them to play peekaboo while fighting. They look fantastic across the landscape.
Any one of you can open the cloud editor, pick a terrain and open it's map. Place one cloud block over a field you will up offline to test the cloud from. Set the alt like 3k or so above that field so you don't have to fly very far. Then see what happens to your FPS inside of that cloud block's clouds. Save the weather file to the chconfig folder for that terrain naming it the same name as the terrain. Then when you up offline the cloud block will be generated. And you can set the wind speed to "0" so it just sits there for you.
My cloud choices had nothing to do with player sensibilities or preferences. They had everything to do with being able to have realistic looking clouds while impacting the fewest players possible playing experience with tanked FPS. Once you start creating game content that will be experienced in the Melee arena, FPS impacts have to be one of your top priorities. And Hitech will let you know about it once he looks at your content before allowing it in the Melee arena.