Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: edge12674 on October 13, 2017, 09:24:20 AM
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This has just been announced:
https://virpil.com/en/blog/89-introducing-the-vpc-mongoost-50-throttle
Also Virpil and Baur have joined together. I have a Baur BRD-DN and could not be happier. Flight sim equipment is finally getting SERIOUS!
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Bad design in my opinion, as the user's arm will constantly rest on the buttons. If you look at any other throttle available, they do not extend the control panels beyond what a normal resting hand would "tent" over.
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I'm kind of in agreement with Del. It might be alright mounted properly on a platform mounted on a chair though or in a simpit. Those two dials in particular look like they're in prime position to get bumped constantly by your forearm though.
Another thing I've noticed in the last couple years with the higher end sticks has struck me as odd. I see a lot of toggle switches. At the end of the day, every flight sim I've seen only seems to interpret things as either buttons or analog controls. So for example, if a button is tied to "raise/lower gear" it raises the gear when it's down, and lowers the gear when it's up. It seems to me with a toggleable switch if you mapped it to gear, for example, it would switch your gear state when you flicked it either up or down, is that correct? What if you had it switched to "up" then got shot down, then launched a plane? At this point the switch is now in the "up" position and to raise your gear you'd need to flick it down, wouldn't you? Or are they all single position switches? Or do they work differently than I describe here?
Wiley.
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Not only do I agree with the above assessment, in today's environment I don't trust anything offered online from Russia (as well as most Eastern European nations), China or Ethiopia.
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Bad design in my opinion, as the user's arm will constantly rest on the buttons. If you look at any other throttle available, they do not extend the control panels beyond what a normal resting hand would "tent" over.
I see your point. In my case the throttle is mounted low so that my forearm is at a 90 degree angle when my hand rests on the throttle handle. A higher/desktop mount probably would result in a button conflict. These are expensive controllers so most who are interested would mount accordingly.
I shared Arlo's concern about ordering anything from Russia. Having been disappointed with the cost and constant maintenance required for TM and other mainstream manufacturers sent me looking elsewhere. My orders from Baur and MFG both went smoothly and they were very good with e-mail notifications. Virpil is currently making their products available through Amazon UK and they are preparing to launch on Amazon US soon.
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Oh, I do not like that at all. I like the X52 throttle better than that one.
Not only are the controls under your arm, you also have to remove your hand from the throttle to use any of them.
It looks cool, but it is not a practical design for most.
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I see your point. In my case the throttle is mounted low so that my forearm is at a 90 degree angle when my hand rests on the throttle handle. A higher/desktop mount probably would result in a button conflict. These are expensive controllers so most who are interested would mount accordingly.
I shared Arlo's concern about ordering anything from Russia. Having been disappointed with the cost and constant maintenance required for TM and other mainstream manufacturers sent me looking elsewhere. My orders from Baur and MFG both went smoothly and they were very good with e-mail notifications. Virpil is currently making their products available through Amazon UK and they are preparing to launch on Amazon US soon.
Well, that might make a difference, in my opinion. As far as the design issue, I suppose mounting it on some sort of wedge to tilt it to 40 - 45' might help mitigate switch issues. I've been planning a simpit for .... ummmm .... 20 years. It's the dream that never dies (or lives - zombie dream?).
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I could kinda picture it in:
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h5/WTE_Sikshoota/DSCF0284.jpg)
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All that work and cables coming in through the cockpit? Appalling!
I'll never have a simpit. I do like my modified recliner though with platforms off the arms for my stick/throttle.
Wiley.
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I want mine with a canopy. Reduces distractions (wife/TV/other).
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About the only thing I really want is an Oculus but it's going to have to wait for my next computer.
Wiley.
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Oh, I do not like that at all. I like the X52 throttle better than that one.
Not only are the controls under your arm, you also have to remove your hand from the throttle to use any of them.
It looks cool, but it is not a practical design for most.
For AHIII I would agree that the base buttons are somewhat superfluous. For other sims, both flight and space, I think they will be quite useful. As far as removing your hand from the throttle to activate a switch or lever, even a Cessna 150 requires that. ;-)
This throttle is certainly designed for those willing to make or buy mounts to accommodate. That is why the base has mount holes. The same can be said of the BRD and Virpil joysticks. These controllers are as high end as you can get without going for military/commercial training gear. For me, any controller that gets away from the cheap plastic/pot metal offered by TM, Saitek, or CH is a plus.
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Yeah I don't like how all the buttons are under your arm either.
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Not only do I agree with the above assessment, in today's environment I don't trust anything offered online from Russia (as well as most Eastern European nations), China or Ethiopia.
It the last few years, the best joysticks and pedals have come from Russia or other places in the former Soviet block. For example, VKB, excellent joysticks and pedals that blow Thrustmaster and CH gear out of the water and they're Russian. Excellent customer service as well. I was a die hard CH fanboi (used to work for them as well many, many years ago), thought nothing would replace them. Then Chuck Hayes went out and sold the company to some French industrial firm and the product and customer service nosed dive afterwards. My CH pedals were wearing down (had them for about 18 years), looked at the VKB T-Rudders Mk. IV, saw they fit the needs I had and bought them and don't regret it. Great product. I've heard similar things with Bauer and Virpil, but they're more suited to the jet sim type games than old warbirds.
As for the MongoosT-50 Throttle, I agree with Del. It's not very ergonomic, the user will become fatigued because they'll try and keep their arm and wrist of the buttons. That's why I really do love the CH Pro Throttle design.
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It the last few years, the best joysticks and pedals have come from Russia or other places in the former Soviet block. For example, VKB, excellent joysticks and pedals that blow Thrustmaster and CH gear out of the water and they're Russian. Excellent customer service as well. I was a die hard CH fanboi (used to work for them as well many, many years ago), thought nothing would replace them. Then Chuck Hayes went out and sold the company to some French industrial firm and the product and customer service nosed dive afterwards. My CH pedals were wearing down (had them for about 18 years), looked at the VKB T-Rudders Mk. IV, saw they fit the needs I had and bought them and don't regret it. Great product. I've heard similar things with Bauer and Virpil, but they're more suited to the jet sim type games than old warbirds.
As for the MongoosT-50 Throttle, I agree with Del. It's not very ergonomic, the user will become fatigued because they'll try and keep their arm and wrist of the buttons. That's why I really do love the CH Pro Throttle design.
Well, I do respect your opinion. Now it's down to Rubles.
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I looked at the vkb pedals and while they looked awesome I felt they were just way over built (if that's actually possible) for their purpose. They look like you could demo a room in your house with em, just dust them off and use them with no problem! I didn't like the way the action was laid out on them too. In the end I opted for the MFG Crosswinds pedals and love them. Just right imo.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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Oh and back on track VKB is coming out with a throttle of their own next year. Still in development so no actual pics but what's on their site looks like the array of buttons is left of the throttle, out of the way. Actual layout remains to be seen but they seem to let out their design and then tweak it as they get input from the end users. They've tweaked the design of the MCG sticks a few times. Consequently they're a little slow with releases. Still I can't wait til I get the shipping number for that MCG!
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For $400 CDN I'll pass, as others have said, the design isn't meant for anything other than their goofy elevator desk clamps, otherwise the users forearm will be all over the switches and controls. I wish they'd change this AND their T50 stick to more common desktop type dimensions. As I said in another thread here, a couple friends have the T50 stick, and IMO compared to the 20+ sticks/throttles I've collected over the years, it's by far and away the best quality and functioning unit. Virpil could really take off if they'd do just a bit more r/d and engineering into their stuff, most users still use their HOTAS on a desktop, and adapting desktop controls to fit on stands or in cockpits is far easier than doing it the reverse way, which is what they're doing right now.
I've seen a couple pics of the VKB drawing for their prototype throttle, their former North American rep showed me a couple but he isn't with VKB any longer. I'm waiting for theirs, hoping it'll be my primary go to high end throttle.
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man that is way too many switches
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If you play DCS World and fly complex jets or helicopters, all of those switches and knobs could be put to good use. As far as the arm interfering with the switches/buttons, this type of throttle at this kind of price is targeting home cockpit setups. My own cockpit mimics the geometry of an F-4 Phantom, which places the throttle grips of my Warthog almost level with my thighs. When my left hand is resting on the dual throttle grips, my arm actually angles up from the grips. The real F-4 console has many large switches just aft of the throttle, so this sim throttle isn't that far off from what exists in real cockpits.
If I didn't already have a Warthog throttle installed, I would consider this one. It has many switches and rotaries I could put to use that the Warthog doesn't have. But the throttle that has my eye for its authenticity is in a completely different price range: http://throttletek.com/f-18-throttle/
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Haha yeah just a BIT north!
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I looked at that Throttletek F18 throttle too, and would buy one, but again, it's dimensions are set up for cockpit users or using those elevator clamps on the desk - not for desktop use, which I'm so used to after siming since desktop joysticks came out that I'm not switching now. That F18 throttle on a desk, the levers are almost at nose level. I wish they and Virpil would both make desktop friendly base units, I'd own units form both if they did.
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I built a seat/stick/rudder pedal platform on 6 wheels as well as a left console with throttle on wheels that gives me a great way to use the F-18 throttle. But if I switched to the F-18 throttle, I would have to finish populating the console with all of the other switch panels. Whereas the Warthog throttle and even more with this Vipril throttle, the built-in switches allow me to be lazy.
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I have to echo other comments and say I dislike the ergonomics on that setup. Not good.
What I'd like is something with at least 3 levers if not 4, but with the lever knobs being low profile (or at least not over-sized) so that you can "stretch" your fingers or your thumb to press buttons while you still have a finger or two on the lever knob itself.
What I really want is something like a 3- (or 4- ) lever throttle quadrant with a rotating wheel on each throttle's head that is its own separate axis.
That way I could have throttle 1, 2, RPM and maybe zoom FOV all while having instant access to separate dials ON those throttle heads for all 3 axes of trim and anything else I want.
Maybe something like the German Kommandogerat where each knob twists as well as pushes (like toe brakes on a rudder pedal peripheral).