Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: nrshida on December 03, 2017, 03:16:39 AM
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Jinx, I said I'd PM you but then thought others might be helped too and of course more people interested better for me, more people to play with!
You asked how a Ki-84 can out-turn an FM2. I understood you were mostly a GV player, so to reiterate and expand on my brief explanation in the MPA:-
The merge: this is quite an important part of the 1-on-1. Here you get to see what your opponent is flying, the relative energy states and possibly his gameplan once you become adept at reading situations and the all-important person in the virtual plane. While you can't as such win the fight in the merge you can disadvantage yourself so much that you really can lose the fight there. You will rarely see a HO-type merge because duellists are generally looking for some horizontal separation - this is passing side by side like cars on the road. If you're a sly bird (take Blade for example) then you're also looking for some vertical separation, this is passing under or over your opponent (you can of course have both vertical and horizontal).
At a given moment the first turn will happen. I won't belabour which particular opening move you want to do, you can experiment with that as they stem from BFM, however in our fight you chose to Immelmann and turn before we passed - a so-called lead-turn. The timing was too early. If you do the fighter pilots hands thing, both hands flat and coming together and your right hand turns upwards before they pass, you'll see that the left hand is below the right, and has to make a less hard turn to pull into the right. Most significantly the left hand automatically falls behind the right. You are just letting a bastage like me on your six this way. This isn't an ACM issue or a BFM issue so much as a timing issue. Experience will teach you this. A lead turn can give you angles for free but the timing and positioning is important.
Although the MPA air spawns are random in spacing, they certainly allow you to get some speed before the merge, enough to put you above corner speed. This is that point on those EM diagrams where your fastest rate AND tightest radius are available. The upper limit is the amount of G the virtual pilot is pulling in game. In AH it looks to be something like 6.3G. Therefore around their specific corner speeds everything turns approximately the same (a lot of detail skipped here). For our aircraft it's instantaneous corner speed because we have way less than 1 to 1 thrust ratio, turning makes huge amounts of lift-induced drag and we can't replace that loss to our kinetic airspeed. So it doesn't last long unless you supply airspeed by descending (burning up potential energy).
There's obviously a lot more to this, the essential point being that in our fight, the combination of lead turn and being above corner speed meant I could out-turn your FM2. Having got in that position I was essentially having to do less work to stay there. I was doing a lot of lag-pursuit, riding my boards, exploiting a better power-loading, a Sony car stereo and better cup holders. The FM2 has advantages too. If you can force the fight into your assets being applied against your opponent's weaknesses then you will be able to give me the yips just like Blade does in his Spit9 :eek:
I'd be happy to spend some time with you going over merges and ACM. Spend time with others too because I have faults and preferences and the more variety you're exposed to the better. Read plenty. Just confining your reading to this forum will already take you a long way!
Hopefully run into you again and have helped a little introduce you into the marvellous world of the 1-on-1. Have fun, explore and remember it's just a game!
:salute
P.S. There was another fella who asked how I stalled out less often than him in the same plane but he was annoying so I shan't answer :rofl
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"How do you out turn X with a Y!" Very common gripe but it's not a matter of just purely turning...like shida wrote there's a lot...e states, angles, performance at different speeds (P51D will out turn a 109 at high speed) ect ect ect
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This is probably a good place to ask; how do you keep the ball centered? I don’t mean how in a control sense but how in the sense how do you know if you are skidding or slipping. I still cannot tell just by looking out the window, I need to glance at the ball or the British needle. How about everybody else?
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This is probably a good place to ask; how do you keep the ball centered? I don’t mean how in a control sense but how in the sense how do you know if you are skidding or slipping. I still cannot tell just by looking out the window, I need to glance at the ball or the British needle. How about everybody else?
You can spend a little time in the TA flying BFM with your smoke on and looking backwards. It's good to be able to do manoeuvres looking backwards anyway. Start with Immelmanns and Chandelles and progress to barrel rolls. The smoke will show slipping and skidding, just observe if your vertical stabilizer is in the middle of the stream. Learn by muscle memory how much rudder you need in manoeuvres. Eventually you won't have to think about it and just go on feel.
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You gave me a couple good hints while we were still in the Match Arena. Right after that, I did a whole lot of reading and viewing on instantaneous and sustained corner speeds, holding G's in your pocket as a reserve for spending on turns, building E, fighting at just above sustained corner speed, and how to plan and fight in that neighborhood. Also, re-trimming when my speed changed. Then I went to the main arena and absolutely killed it. I never knew about any of that, but I think I get it now. Just need to practice a bunch more using those ideas. (I actually took 5 pages of written notes after viewing a bunch of vids on YouTube.)
I now totally see how my crappy turns in an FM2, blowing a lot of G's, couldn't keep up for long with a KI-84 riding its sustained corner speed.
Thanks for the help!
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I think you will learn quickly from the sounds of things.
Come and out-fly me and force me to learn too :banana:
:salute
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I think you will learn quickly from the sounds of things.
Come and out-fly me and force me to learn too :banana:
:salute
AMEN BROTHER! Only have some great mentors..LOL Always open to advise on where I fudged the COY dog!
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In a game like this it is harder to do without a lot of practice. In a real life airplane it is easy to fly "seat of the pants" you can feel if a turn is coordinated in not in your butt. When I was instructing and a student was flying I could tell they was not flying with the ball centered and which way without even looking. When I would fly with other certificated pilots it was hard to keep my mouth shut when they were not flying ball centered or made uncoordinated turns. I am not sure you can tell if you are skidding or slipping in this game without some type if visual cue such as the ball or smoke as was mentioned.
:airplane:<==="Flight instructing is 99% boredom and 1% pure terror."==<:joystick:
This is probably a good place to ask; how do you keep the ball centered? I don’t mean how in a control sense but how in the sense how do you know if you are skidding or slipping. I still cannot tell just by looking out the window, I need to glance at the ball or the British needle. How about everybody else?
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You can spend a little time in the TA flying BFM with your smoke on and looking backwards. It's good to be able to do manoeuvres looking backwards anyway. Start with Immelmanns and Chandelles and progress to barrel rolls. The smoke will show slipping and skidding, just observe if your vertical stabilizer is in the middle of the stream. Learn by muscle memory how much rudder you need in manoeuvres. Eventually you won't have to think about it and just go on feel.
Be careful!!! The next thing you know, Shida will be making you fly in cvircles, tighter and tighter and slower and slower!!!! Wax on.....wax off !
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Be careful!!! The next thing you know, Shida will be making you fly in cvircles, tighter and tighter and slower and slower!!!! Wax on.....wax off !
Yes. Dragging a wingtip on the water. Used to throw a roost in the olden days.
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I would kindly like to take you up on your training offer!
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I would kindly like to take you up on your training offer!
Willingly. The one caveat being my restrictive hours because I'm in Europe and can't fly in my evenings. If we can't overlap then I recommend making an appointment with an official trainer or otherwise go to the MPA a lot. When you find someone who can beat the snot out of you ask for help.
Or you could play 'the density factor' like me and try to work it out yourself by watching films and experimenting :banana:
P.S. I'm also nrshida in game. If I'm on I'll either be in the TA or the MPA (sometimes a.f.k.).
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I am very flexible and will make time, just let me know what time is good for you !
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careful jinx once you have sipped from the cup of advanced ACM wizardry the force will awaken.
People will be calling you a cheat pretty quickly. :salute remember you arent doing it right if you dont get at least 1 PM a day. :banana:
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I spent the last few days trying out some turn-rate-against-turn-radius maneuvers. Another new thing I learned. :salute
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come and check out KOTH next time you see us spamming the global announce channel.
everyone gets pitted into the same plane and they fight until one person is left who then picks a new ride for the next round. Its like a cagematch/moshpit for WW2 aircraft.
You can push yourself against folk that you may not fight against regularly and its fun. The more attending , the longer it can last and the more fights you can have. :aok
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Jinx, I said I'd PM you but then thought others might be helped too and of course more people interested better for me, more people to play with!
You asked how a Ki-84 can out-turn an FM2. I understood you were mostly a GV player, so to reiterate and expand on my brief explanation in the MPA:-
The merge: this is quite an important part of the 1-on-1. Here you get to see what your opponent is flying, the relative energy states and possibly his gameplan once you become adept at reading situations and the all-important person in the virtual plane. While you can't as such win the fight in the merge you can disadvantage yourself so much that you really can lose the fight there. You will rarely see a HO-type merge because duellists are generally looking for some horizontal separation - this is passing side by side like cars on the road. If you're a sly bird (take Blade for example) then you're also looking for some vertical separation, this is passing under or over your opponent (you can of course have both vertical and horizontal).
At a given moment the first turn will happen. I won't belabour which particular opening move you want to do, you can experiment with that as they stem from BFM, however in our fight you chose to Immelmann and turn before we passed - a so-called lead-turn. The timing was too early. If you do the fighter pilots hands thing, both hands flat and coming together and your right hand turns upwards before they pass, you'll see that the left hand is below the right, and has to make a less hard turn to pull into the right. Most significantly the left hand automatically falls behind the right. You are just letting a bastage like me on your six this way. This isn't an ACM issue or a BFM issue so much as a timing issue. Experience will teach you this. A lead turn can give you angles for free but the timing and positioning is important.
Although the MPA air spawns are random in spacing, they certainly allow you to get some speed before the merge, enough to put you above corner speed. This is that point on those EM diagrams where your fastest rate AND tightest radius are available. The upper limit is the amount of G the virtual pilot is pulling in game. In AH it looks to be something like 6.3G. Therefore around their specific corner speeds everything turns approximately the same (a lot of detail skipped here). For our aircraft it's instantaneous corner speed because we have way less than 1 to 1 thrust ratio, turning makes huge amounts of lift-induced drag and we can't replace that loss to our kinetic airspeed. So it doesn't last long unless you supply airspeed by descending (burning up potential energy).
There's obviously a lot more to this, the essential point being that in our fight, the combination of lead turn and being above corner speed meant I could out-turn your FM2. Having got in that position I was essentially having to do less work to stay there. I was doing a lot of lag-pursuit, riding my boards, exploiting a better power-loading, a Sony car stereo and better cup holders. The FM2 has advantages too. If you can force the fight into your assets being applied against your opponent's weaknesses then you will be able to give me the yips just like Blade does in his Spit9 :eek:
I'd be happy to spend some time with you going over merges and ACM. Spend time with others too because I have faults and preferences and the more variety you're exposed to the better. Read plenty. Just confining your reading to this forum will already take you a long way!
Hopefully run into you again and have helped a little introduce you into the marvellous world of the 1-on-1. Have fun, explore and remember it's just a game!
Nicely written Shida!
<S>
- Rodent57
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Nicely written Shida!
Thank you sir. I recently heard about your past activities. Feel free to correct. I am merely an artistic and mostly self-taught amateur.
I am very flexible and will make time, just let me know what time is good for you !
How about tomorrow around midday CET. I'll likely be online somewhere. Just go online and type:
.f nrshida
and it'll tell you where I'm hiding :salute
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Copy, ill PM you tomorrow!
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Sitting in the TA right now novice. Engine warmed up and flux capacitor fluxxing :banana:
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Soorry I missed ya, got called in to work. The time otherwise works for me tho. Ill keep an eye out for you