Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Arlo on December 17, 2017, 11:54:45 AM
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A few plane wishes for Santa:
Kawasaki Ki-100-1b
(Hgh Performance Late War IJ Fighter)
(https://i.imgur.com/rlflOoO.png)
"Operational missions began in March 1945. From the first engagements,
the Ki-100 performed well against the B-29 and showed itself to be equally
effective against U.S. Navy carrier fighters. A new variant, the Ki-100-Ib,
was produced during the last weeks of the war in time to equip five sentai for
home defense duties."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ki-100
Piaggio P 108
(Axis Heavy Bomber)
(https://i.imgur.com/ga2Bjms.png)
"It was one of a handful of Italian combat aircraft that could match the best
manufactured by the Allies. Four versions of the P.108 were designed, but
only one, the P.108B bomber, was produced in any quantity before the armistice."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.108
Douglas TBD Devastator
(Allied Torpedo Bomber Early Pac Events)
(https://i.imgur.com/XAUqOnd.png)
"In the early days of the Pacific war, the TBD acquitted itself well during
February and March 1942, with TBDs from Enterprise and Yorktown attacking
targets in the Marshall and Gilbert Islands, Wake and Marcus Islands, while
TBDs from Yorktown and Lexington struck Japanese shipping off New Guinea
on 10 March. In the Battle of the Coral Sea Devastators helped sink the
Japanese aircraft carrier Shōhō on 7 May, but failed to hit another carrier,
the Shōkaku, the next day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_TBD_Devastator
Yokasuka D4Y
(Japanese High Performance Dive Bomber)
(https://i.imgur.com/WnPMCEr.png)
"Lacking armor and self-sealing fuel tanks, the Suiseis did not fare well against
Allied fighters. They did, however, cause considerable damage to ships, including
the carrier USS Franklin which was nearly sunk by an assumed single D4Y and the
light carrier USS Princeton which was sunk by a single D4Y.
The D4Y was operated from the following Japanese aircraft carriers: Chitose,
Chiyoda, Hiyō, Junyō, Shinyo, Shōkaku, Sōryū, Taihō, Unryū, Unyō and Zuikaku."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yokosuka_D4Y
Junker Ju-52
(Axis Paratrooper Transport)
(https://i.imgur.com/EJl71ks.png)
"The Luftwaffe had 552 Ju 52s at the start of World War II. Even though it
was built in great numbers, the Ju 52 was technically obsolete. Between
1939 and 1944, 2,804 Ju 52s were delivered to the Luftwaffe (1939: 145;
1940: 388; 1941: 502; 1942: 503; 1943: 887; and 1944: 379). The production
of Ju 52s continued until approximately the summer of 1944; when the war came
to an end, there were still 100 to 200 available."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_52
Fiat G.55
(Italian Late War High Performance Fighter)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ka5iNtD.png)
"The Fiat G.55 was arguably the best type produced in Italy during World War II,
(a subjective claim also frequently made for the Macchi C.205 Veltro as well as
for the Reggiane Re.2005 "Sagittario") but it did not enter production until 1943,
when, after comparative tests against the Messerschmitt Bf 109G and the
Focke-Wulf 190, the Luftwaffe itself regarded the Fiat G.55 as "the best Axis fighter".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_G.55
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+6!
I'm for any new or re-done airplane.
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+1 for all
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Need the beau before anything else.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Need the beau before anything else.
Not really. I don't mind seeing it added but your priorities seem skewed. :)
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Need the beau before anything else.
I agree. The Beau will see extensive use in events.
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Not really. I don't mind seeing it added but your priorities seem skewed. :)
Yet you put the P.108 on your list...
Hard to justify that as any sort of priority.
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Yet you put the P.108 on your list...
Hard to justify that as any sort of priority.
Any sort? My justification was put in brackets below each plane. You may not agree with them .... but I did give it a bit more thought than the Beau, which is somewhat redundant. :)
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Good list minus the P108. :salute
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I'd have made it the SM.79 Sparviero but I felt like throwing axis uber a bone. :D
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I'd have made it the SM.79 Sparviero but I felt like throwing axis uber a bone. :D
Then suggest the He177A-5 or H8K2. You know, planes that actually did stuff.
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Then suggest the He177A-5 or H8K2. You know, planes that actually did stuff.
Well, in that case .... neh, I'll stick with the Italian 4 engine model, as the request states. It did actually do some stuff (as much, if not more, than the Ta-152) and it's an actual heavy, which is obviously rare for the Axis. Did I day, it's Italian? Imagine that, an Italian bomber in the game. And an actual 4 engine heavy. :D
(https://i.imgur.com/hihNx51.png)
Bomb load
The P.108 had a large bomb bay which was capable of carrying either:
7 × 250 or 500 kg (550 or 1,100 lb) bombs.
34 × 100 kg/220 lb (true weight: 129 kg/284 lb).
38 × 50 kg/110 lb (true weight: 69 kg/152 lb) bombs.
The bomb bay was located centrally in the fuselage, and divided longitudinally into three sections which prevented it from carrying heavier bombs like the 800 kg (1,800 lb) types. This was a considerable limitation, whereas the SM.82 was capable of accommodating larger loads (being able to be used both in transport and the bomber role). In the torpedo-bomber configuration, three torpedoes could be carried under the belly and the wings.
Defensive armament
The defensive armament of the first P.108 series consisted of eight Breda-SAFAT machine guns. One Breda "O" 12.7 mm (.5 in) with 450 rounds was fitted in the nose, and a Breda "G9" 12.7 mm (.5 in) in a retractable ventral turret, with 400-450 rpg. In addition to these two fully hydraulically powered turrets, there were two 7.7 mm (.303 in) guns in the flanks, with 500 rpg. The wing armament consisted of two remote-controlled, hydraulically powered Breda "Z" turrets with 600 rpg in the outer-engine wing nacelles, linked to one of the two cupolas in the fuselage "hump", with an operator in each. The wing turrets represented the most innovative aspect of the P.108's technology.
Although considered a very advanced design, the operational suitability of the wing nacelle turret installations was questionable.
Operational history
P.108Bs were deployed in the Mediterranean and North African theatres and first saw action in an unsuccessful day mission against a destroyer on 6 June, releasing 10 160 kg (350 lb) bombs. The aircraft were effectively used a few weeks later, with a night bombing raid over Gibraltar on 28 June 1942.
Gibraltar
The first operation to Gibraltar was almost a disaster; out of five aircraft which set out from Decimomannu in Sardinia, one (MM.22004) was forced to return due to engine trouble while the other four bombed with 66 100 kg (220 lb) and six 250 kg (550 lb) bombs. Three of them, short of fuel, were forced to land in Spain, two of which (MM.22001 and 22005) crashed or suffered some damage in forced landings. The third (MM.22007) landed in Majorca, a former Italian base in the Spanish Civil War, and thanks to the Spanish pro-Axis policy was quickly refueled and took off from Palma de Majorca for Italy. The two others remained in Spain: MM.22001 crashed on a beach when it was approaching Valencia airport and was written off, MM.22005 suffered minor damage and was stored at San Javier air base but was repaired and tested by the Spanish Air Force.[13] Several other missions were launched until October, which resulted in some damage and further losses. An attempt to change to SM.82s was an expedient (as was the P.108, expecting more from the future P.133).
For a chronology, there were sorties to Gibraltar (without the endurance problems that dogged the first mission), during the night of 3 July (MM.22601 failed to return), 24 September (MM22004 and 22603), 20 October (MM.22002 (written off during an emergency landing after engine failure on takeoff), MM.22004, 22006 and 22007) and 21 October (MM.22602, destroyed during an emergency landing at Bône in Algeria, and two other P.108s), when the "peak" was reached.[14] Each of these missions, involving one to four aircraft (15 sorties in total), was unsuccessful and resulted in around 33% losses. The results were poor, with one Hudson and some artillery positions destroyed on the ground in the first "big" mission and further unspecified damage in the others, despite intensive long-range mission crew training between 3 July and September. On 28 October, MM22007 force-landed in Algeria on its third sortie, making in total at least 16 sorties with one aircraft missing, two lost in Spain, two lost in Algeria and one lost in Italy.
Algeria and Africa
Following the Allied invasion of French North Africa, codenamed "Operation Torch", more losses were sustained when these aircraft flew missions over Algeria and other African targets. The Allies had over 160 warships and 250 merchant ships in the region. The Luftwaffe had 1,068 aircraft in the II and X. Fliegerkorps, the Regia had 285 aircraft in Sardinia of which 115 were torpedo-bombers. At least three were downed over Africa in this series of raids, for the most part claimed by Beaufighters. Nonetheless, in Algeria they struck targets in Bône (now called Annaba), Algiers, Blinda, Philippeville (now called Skikda), Maison Blanche and Oran.
Some ships were damaged by P.108s in the latter and Algerian raids and over other targets they destroyed some aircraft. These bombers were the only ones capable of flying the 2,000 km (1,240 mi) to Oran. The 274 Squadriglia had only eight P.108s and with them performed only 28 sorties in eight night missions, during a whole month. Three were shot down by night fighters, which on only one occasion were repelled by the wing turrets. Two P.108s were shot down by 153 Sqn Beaufighters in the attack over Algeria's port and the last of these missions was flown on 20 January. Serviceability dropped to one or two aircraft and so with the need for refurbishment, the P.108s returned to the mainland.
Sicily
The final action took place over Sicily, when the 274ma was reinforced to a total of eight. They flew 12 sorties against the invasion force between 11 and 22 July. Losses included two aircraft destroyed and two others badly damaged, mainly by Beaufighter and Mosquito night fighters. Only one ship was damaged - this closed the career of 274ma and the P.108B.
The last of the 24 P.108Bs ordered was delivered in August. Of these aircraft, six were lost to enemy action (three over Algeria, two over Sicily and perhaps one over Spain), four to accidents (including the one involving Bruno Mussolini) and three to forced landings (one in Algeria and two over Spain).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.108
There you have it. Not the shiniest of careers but it'll likely have a better one in both the MA and in Mediterranean scenarios. AHIII isn't an actual re-enactment. ;)
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as you know HTC requires historical accuracy when looking at aircraft and vehicles.
numbers built
numbers used
numbers destroyed
numbers that destroyed
time frame that numbers built,used and destroyed
which and how many units used them
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Actually, I believe HTC requires mere proof that it was a plane or vehicle used in combat during WWII in a regular organized unit.
Never-the-less, here is a source online (other than the Wiki link I gave) that can provide said information:
"The Piaggio P.108 B was the only heavy four-engine bomber to see service with the Regia Aeronautica during World War Two. Too few were built to play a significant role in the war, only 24 P.108 Bs having been built. The P.108 B was an all-metal cantilever low-wing monoplane with an retractable under-carriage, driven by four 1,350 hp Piaggio P.XII radial engines. The first prototype was finished in 10/39 and had a very advanced defensive armament for its day of two 7.7 mm machine waist guns, a 12.7 mm machine gun in the lower turret and a similar weapon in the nose turret, and two remotely-controlled twin gun turrets in outer engine nacelles. The first Allied bomber with a similar armament was the Boeing B 29, developed four years later. The bomb load of the Piaggio comprised of 7,700 lbs, all carried internally in the bomb bay.
The only unit of the Regia Aeronautica ever to fly the P.108 B was the 274th Long-Range Bombardment Group. This unit was formed in 5/41 around the first machines that came off the assembly lines. The training of the crews lasted far longer than anticipated and in 6/42 the 274th became operational. The most spectacular raids with the P. 108 B were flown in 10/42 when several night attacks against Gibraltar were undertaken from Sardinia. Several versions were derived from the P. 108 B: such as the P.108A, which had a 102 mm anti-shipping gun in the nose; the P.108C airliner and the P.108T transport. The latter two versions had a larger diameter fuselage for transporting passengers or freight. They were hardly used by the Regia Aeronautica, the main user being the German Luftwaffe. In 9/43, after the Italian armistice, the Luftwaffe had captured all fifteen P.108 Cs and P.108 Ts built. They were used at the Russian front, as part of Luftflotte 2, where they performed sterling duties, among others during the evacuation of the Crimea in 1944."
http://www.comandosupremo.com/P108.html
If this is considered more of a "compromise" than the Ta-152 then I will gladly recommend the Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 in its place (as I have for years). It is the most well known bomber in the Italian inventory. It is torpedo capable and it served in greater numbers for a longer period of time.
(https://i.imgur.com/qyd20z8.png)
"By the beginning of World War II, 612 aircraft had been delivered, making the Sparviero the most numerous bomber in the whole of the Regia Aereonautica. Among these units; 8, 9, 11, 12, 30, 32, 36, 41 and 46 Stormi (Wings) were based in Italy, and participated in the Battle of France. They were equipped with a total of around 350 SM.79s, including those used in training squadrons.
Operational history as torpedo bomber
1940
The first sortie on 15 August 1940 saw five SM.79s that had been modified and prepared for the task sent to El Adem airfield. Among their pilots were Buscaglia, Dequal and other pilots destined to become "aces." Only Buscaglia and Dequal returned. The other three SM.79s, attacking after the first two, were hindered by a fierce anti-aircraft defence and low clouds and returned to their base without releasing their torpedoes.
Many missions followed, on 22–23 August (Alexandria), 26 August (against ships never found), and 27 August (Buscaglia against a cruiser). The special unit became known as the 278th Squadriglia, and from September 1940 carried out many shipping attacks, including on 4 September (when Buscaglia had his aircraft damaged by fighters) and 10 September, when Robone claimed a merchant ship sunk. On 17 September, after an unsuccessful day attack, Buscaglia and Robone returned at night, attacking the British ships that shelled Bardia. One torpedo hit HMS Kent, damaging the heavy cruiser to the extent that the ship remained under repair until September 1941. After almost a month of attacks, this was the first success officially acknowledged and proven. After almost a month of further attacks, a newcomer, Erasi, flew with Robone on 14 October 1940 against a British formation and hit HMS Liverpool, a modern cruiser that lost her bow and needed 13 months of repair. After several months, and despite the losses and the first unfortunate mission, the core of the 278th was still operating the same four aircraft. The last success of this squadron was at Souda Bay, Crete, when Buscaglia damaged another cruiser, HMS Glasgow, despite the anti-torpedo netting surrounding the ship, sending it out of commission for nine months while repairs were made. The aircraft continued in service until a British bomb struck them, setting off a torpedo and a "chain reaction" which destroyed them all.
1941
In April many successes were recorded by SM.79s of the 281st and 280th. They sank two merchant ships, heavily damaged the British cruiser HMS Manchester (sending it out of service for nine months) and later also sank the F-class destroyer HMS Fearless. However, one SM.79 was shot down 25 nmi (46 km) north west of Gozo on 3 June, landing in the sea and staying afloat for some time. Further Italian successes came in August, when the light cruiser HMS Phoebe was damaged. The large merchant ship SS Imperial Star (10,886 tonnes/12,000 tons) was sunk by an SM.79 in September. In the same month, the battleship HMS Nelson was torpedoed and damaged by a SM.79 during Operation Halberd. The 130° and 132° Gruppi were also active during the autumn. On 24 October, they sank the merchant vessels Empire Pelican and Empire Defender, on 23 November they sank the merchant vessels Glenearn and Xhakdina, and on 11 December they heavily damaged Jackal.
The year ended with a total of nine Allied ships sunk and 30 damaged. The daring Italian pilots however lost 14 torpedo bombers and another 46 were damaged in action.
1942
Over 100 SM.79s were in service in different Italian torpedo squadrons. In addition to its wide-scale deployment in its intended bomber-torpedo bomber role, the Sparviero was also used for close support, reconnaissance and transport missions. In the first six months of 1942, all the Italo-German efforts to hit Allied ships had only resulted in the sinking of the merchant ship Thermopilae by an aircraft flown by Carlo studmuffingioni.
14 June saw the second torpedoing of Liverpool, by a 132º Gruppo SM.79, putting it out of action for another 13 months. Regardless of where the torpedo struck, (amidships in the case of Liverpool, aft as for Kent, or forward as happened to Glasgow) the cruisers remained highly vulnerable to torpedoes, but no Italian air attack managed to hit them with more than one torpedo at once. On the same day the merchant ship Tanimbar was sunk by SM.79s of the 132nd, and finally the day after HMS Bedouin, a Tribal-class destroyer, already damaged by two Italian cruisers, was sunk by pilot M. Aichner, also of 132nd Gruppo. For years this victory was contested by the Italian Navy, who claimed to have sunk Bedouin with gunfire.
August saw heavy attacks on the 14 merchant ships and 44 major warships of the Operation Pedestal convoy, the second Allied attempt to resupply Malta past Axis bombers, minefields and U-boats. Nine of the merchant ships and four of the warships were sunk, and others were damaged, but only the destroyer HMS Foresight and the merchant ship MV Deucalion were sunk by Italian torpedo bombers. Although damaged, the tanker SS Ohio, a key part of the convoy, was towed into Grand Harbour to deliver the vital fuel on 15 August 1942 to enable Malta to continue functioning as an important Allied base, a major Allied strategic success.
By winter 1942, in contrast to Operation Torch, 9 December was a successful day when four SM.79s sank a Flower-class corvette and a merchant ship, with the loss of one aircraft. Carlo Emanuele Buscaglia, another prominent member of the Italian torpedo-airforce who was credited with over 90,718 tonnes (100,000 tons) of enemy shipping sunk, was shot down the day after saying "We will probably all be dead before Christmas". The risks of attempting to overcome the effective defences of allied ships were too great to expect much chance of long-term survival, but he was later rescued from the water, badly wounded. On 18 November, the light cruiser HMS Arethusa was torpedoed and badly damaged during Operation Stone Age.
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(cont.)
1943
Before the invasion, there was a large force of torpedo aircraft: 7 Gruppi (groups), 41, 89, 104, 108, 130, 131 and 132nd equipped with dozens of aircraft, but this was nevertheless a weak force. Except for the 104th, based around the Aegean Sea, the other six Gruppi comprised just 61 aircraft, with only 22 serviceable. Almost all the available machines were sent to the Raggruppamento Aerosiluranti, but of the 44 aircraft, only a third were considered flight-worthy by 9 July 1943. Production of new SM.79s continued to fall behind and up to the end of July only 37 SM.79s and 39 SM.84s were delivered. Despite the use of an improved engine, capable of a maximum speed of 475 km/h (295 mph), these machines were unable to cope with the difficult task of resisting the invasion. They were too large to allow them to evade detection by enemy defences, and their large aircrew requirement resulted in heavy losses of personnel. In the first five days SM.79s performed 57 missions, at night only, and failed to achieve any results, with the loss of seven aircraft. Another three aircraft were lost on 16 July 1943 in a co-ordinated attack with German forces on HMS Indomitable, which was hit and put out of combat for many months.
The last operation was in September 1943, and resulted in the damaging of the LST 417, on 7 September 1943. On 8 September, when the Armistice with Italy was announced, the Regia Aeronautica had no fewer than 61 SM.79s, of which 36 were operational.
RSI service, 1943–45
After the Armistice, the Repubblica Sociale Italiana (RSI) decided to continue using the SM.79s as torpedo-bombers. Counting the aircraft taken over from the Regia Aeronautica, new deliveries and aircraft in workshops and depots, the Aeronautica Nazionale Repubblicana (ANR) had 73 SM.79 at its disposal. They were mostly SM.79-III type. This version featured strengthened armament and had no ventral "bathtub" turret. They were based mostly in Venegono. Two secondary bases were Merna di Gorizia and Perugia, in Umbria.
The first missions attempted to oppose the Anzio landings, where the British and American forces had landed on 22 January 1944. On the evening of 10 March six ANR SM.79s attacked Allied merchant ships near the Anzio-Nettuno beachhead. One Sparviero was lost. On the night of 13–14 March five SM.79s repeated the attack.
On 10 April 1944 four SM.79s took off to attack the Anzio bridgehead. Capitano studmuffingioni's aircraft was hit by AA fire and crashed into the sea. Only one Sparviero returned to base. Capitano Marino Marini took command of the torpedo-bomber group and in a short time he planned a mission over Gibraltar. For this mission, 12 SM.79 bis models were used. They had enhanced engines, armoured shields for the lateral machine guns, an additional 1,000 L (264 US gal) fuel tank in the bomb bay, and had the bombardier's nacelle removed. Even these modifications could not provide sufficient range to achieve the necessary distance that the mission required, and so all weapons except one were removed, one member of crew was left behind, and the fuel load was increased to 5,000 L (1,320 US gal). To reach Gibraltar, it was necessary to take off from Istres, in Southern France, and then fly for a total of 2,700 km (1,700 mi). Of the 12 aircraft that departed from Istres on 5 June 1944, 10 reached their target (according to other sources, ten SM.79s took off on 4 June and nine reached the target). The defenders were taken by surprise, and all the aircraft successfully launched their torpedoes, but three SM.79s ran out of fuel and were forced to land in Spain. Initial claims by the Italians were four ships sunk, totalling 27,216 tonnes (30,000 tons). German observers in Algeciras, in Spain, reported that four ships, totalling 30,000 tons were badly damaged and that two others had been hit. British sources however stated that no ships were lost, due to an effective system of defence. Regardless, this was the largest enemy incursion over Gibraltar in four years of war and this operation demonstrated the flying skill of the Republican torpedo airmen."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoia-Marchetti_SM.79
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Arlo, the Ta 152 fills both a niche in the MA and a serious gap in events. The P. 108 marginally fills a niche in the MA for an Axis heavy bomber, but it's potential use in events is next to none. Comparing their inclusion in AH just because of low production runs is not as justifiable as you think it is.
As for every other plane you listed, including the SM. 79, they fill both niches in the MA and fills gaps for events. They should all be placed on the short list for inclusion - just after the Beau.
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Love the Fiat G55, been pushing for that one a long time. The others are ok.
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... just after the Beau.
Might need to explain the niches for that, given the healthy and robust British plane set. ;)
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Think Hawker Typhoon, only 2.5 years earlier and in every theater of the war, with torpedoes.
It is the iconic British ground pounder.
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It's funny how every plane wish thread turns into a discussion of why other planes (with separate wish threads) should be added first.
The beau: your buddy is dating a sexy girl, lets call her the mosquito. He wants to introduce you to her sister. Sounds good right? Maybe she's even sexier, like the Whirlwind... Nope! She ended up being a bigger, more clumsy, and dumpier version of the mosquito....the Beaufighter.
I just can't get fired up for that thing. I'd rather the Whirlwind if we're talking Brit twins.
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It's funny how every plane wish thread turns into a discussion of why other planes (with separate wish threads) should be added first.
The beau: your buddy is dating a sexy girl, lets call her the mosquito. He wants to introduce you to her sister. Sounds good right? Maybe she's even sexier, like the Whirlwind... Nope! She ended up being a bigger, more clumsy, and dumpier version of the mosquito....the Beaufighter.
I just can't get fired up for that thing. I'd rather the Whirlwind if we're talking Brit twins.
Planes are "needed" for special events. In the MA there is always an alternative and new planes are not likely to bring anything new to the table (Exept the Mosquito XVIII tze-tze of course). Axis or Allied division does not matter for the MA either.
For special events what matters is filling "gaps" for specific role in specific side at a specific time frame. A plane like the Beau that served in numerous role, in all theatres, from the end of the battle of britain to VJ day has a very good potential for events.
The Ta152 is an outlier that should not be used as the rule for adding new planes. It is not much better than the Dora, does not add any special capabilities (no attack ordnance) except maybe extreme range, and its use in scenarios is limited to "last day of the luftwaffe" events. HTC added it - it's nice to have, adds flavor, but completely insignificant both in the MA and events.
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It is not much better than the Dora, does not add any special capabilities
If you stay low, no it's not much better.
If you use it where it shines, it's lightyears ahead of the Dora. And especially since the WEP changes in AHIII, I'd almost call it's high alt performance "special capabilities" way ahead of any other plane but the Komet.
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For special events what matters is filling "gaps" for specific role in specific side at a specific time frame. A plane like the Beau that served in numerous role, in all theatres, from the end of the battle of britain to VJ day has a very good potential for events.
You could substitute the word 'Mosquito' for 'Beau' and your statement remains just as factual (which makes the request redundant).
I have suggested an Italian late war fighter and an Italian bomber, which would bring the Italian plane set up to a whopping 4 (vs. the British plane set of 17). The Pe-108 suggestion would have worked well for MA (for any player that leaned toward Axis bombers and desired a heavy) and would have had some limited suitability for events. The SM.79 would have great potential for Mediterranean scenarios and crazy players in the MA (like me, I'll fly and die in the I-16 there). And if he German's thought the G.55 was "the best Axis fighter" then lets bring it on. It did see limited combat in regular units.
I have suggested a Japanese late war high performance fighter (specifically for its historic role of being Japan's best B-29 interceptor) and a late war Japanese dive bomber. Both of those were to enhance late war scenarios. It would increase the Japanese plane set to 13.
I have suggested the iconic German Ju-52 as an alternative to the Goon. Although the latter serves well in events for the U.S., the British, the Russians, and the Japanese, the Ju-52 would be a great addition for the Axis in events, especially considering its extreme versatility (read bomber option in AH).
I have suggested an early war USN torpedo bomber for early war events. The outcry against the TMB-3 in every early pac is just too loud to ignore.
There you have it. Perhaps the Beau would be a nice addition after these. :)
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It's funny how every plane wish thread turns into a discussion of why other planes (with separate wish threads) should be added first.
The beau: your buddy is dating a sexy girl, lets call her the mosquito. He wants to introduce you to her sister. Sounds good right? Maybe she's even sexier, like the Whirlwind... Nope! She ended up being a bigger, more clumsy, and dumpier version of the mosquito....the Beaufighter.
I just can't get fired up for that thing. I'd rather the Whirlwind if we're talking Brit twins.
the Beau fighter has been on the wish lists and wished for longer than any plane for the last 4 years or more.
most people were all fired up about the ME410 when it came out for about 3 weeks-than pretty much became a hanger queen- until Torquila came along and showed what it can do with proper practice and training, almost all planes have potential
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Well, in that case .... neh, I'll stick with the Italian 4 engine model, as the request states. It did actually do some stuff (as much, if not more, than the Ta-152) and it's an actual heavy, which is obviously rare for the Axis. Did I day, it's Italian? Imagine that, an Italian bomber in the game. And an actual 4 engine heavy. :D
(https://i.imgur.com/hihNx51.png)
Bomb load
The P.108 had a large bomb bay which was capable of carrying either:
7 × 250 or 500 kg (550 or 1,100 lb) bombs.
34 × 100 kg/220 lb (true weight: 129 kg/284 lb).
38 × 50 kg/110 lb (true weight: 69 kg/152 lb) bombs.
The bomb bay was located centrally in the fuselage, and divided longitudinally into three sections which prevented it from carrying heavier bombs like the 800 kg (1,800 lb) types. This was a considerable limitation, whereas the SM.82 was capable of accommodating larger loads (being able to be used both in transport and the bomber role). In the torpedo-bomber configuration, three torpedoes could be carried under the belly and the wings.
Defensive armament
The defensive armament of the first P.108 series consisted of eight Breda-SAFAT machine guns. One Breda "O" 12.7 mm (.5 in) with 450 rounds was fitted in the nose, and a Breda "G9" 12.7 mm (.5 in) in a retractable ventral turret, with 400-450 rpg. In addition to these two fully hydraulically powered turrets, there were two 7.7 mm (.303 in) guns in the flanks, with 500 rpg. The wing armament consisted of two remote-controlled, hydraulically powered Breda "Z" turrets with 600 rpg in the outer-engine wing nacelles, linked to one of the two cupolas in the fuselage "hump", with an operator in each. The wing turrets represented the most innovative aspect of the P.108's technology.
Although considered a very advanced design, the operational suitability of the wing nacelle turret installations was questionable.
Operational history
P.108Bs were deployed in the Mediterranean and North African theatres and first saw action in an unsuccessful day mission against a destroyer on 6 June, releasing 10 160 kg (350 lb) bombs. The aircraft were effectively used a few weeks later, with a night bombing raid over Gibraltar on 28 June 1942.
Gibraltar
The first operation to Gibraltar was almost a disaster; out of five aircraft which set out from Decimomannu in Sardinia, one (MM.22004) was forced to return due to engine trouble while the other four bombed with 66 100 kg (220 lb) and six 250 kg (550 lb) bombs. Three of them, short of fuel, were forced to land in Spain, two of which (MM.22001 and 22005) crashed or suffered some damage in forced landings. The third (MM.22007) landed in Majorca, a former Italian base in the Spanish Civil War, and thanks to the Spanish pro-Axis policy was quickly refueled and took off from Palma de Majorca for Italy. The two others remained in Spain: MM.22001 crashed on a beach when it was approaching Valencia airport and was written off, MM.22005 suffered minor damage and was stored at San Javier air base but was repaired and tested by the Spanish Air Force.[13] Several other missions were launched until October, which resulted in some damage and further losses. An attempt to change to SM.82s was an expedient (as was the P.108, expecting more from the future P.133).
For a chronology, there were sorties to Gibraltar (without the endurance problems that dogged the first mission), during the night of 3 July (MM.22601 failed to return), 24 September (MM22004 and 22603), 20 October (MM.22002 (written off during an emergency landing after engine failure on takeoff), MM.22004, 22006 and 22007) and 21 October (MM.22602, destroyed during an emergency landing at Bône in Algeria, and two other P.108s), when the "peak" was reached.[14] Each of these missions, involving one to four aircraft (15 sorties in total), was unsuccessful and resulted in around 33% losses. The results were poor, with one Hudson and some artillery positions destroyed on the ground in the first "big" mission and further unspecified damage in the others, despite intensive long-range mission crew training between 3 July and September. On 28 October, MM22007 force-landed in Algeria on its third sortie, making in total at least 16 sorties with one aircraft missing, two lost in Spain, two lost in Algeria and one lost in Italy.
Algeria and Africa
Following the Allied invasion of French North Africa, codenamed "Operation Torch", more losses were sustained when these aircraft flew missions over Algeria and other African targets. The Allies had over 160 warships and 250 merchant ships in the region. The Luftwaffe had 1,068 aircraft in the II and X. Fliegerkorps, the Regia had 285 aircraft in Sardinia of which 115 were torpedo-bombers. At least three were downed over Africa in this series of raids, for the most part claimed by Beaufighters. Nonetheless, in Algeria they struck targets in Bône (now called Annaba), Algiers, Blinda, Philippeville (now called Skikda), Maison Blanche and Oran.
Some ships were damaged by P.108s in the latter and Algerian raids and over other targets they destroyed some aircraft. These bombers were the only ones capable of flying the 2,000 km (1,240 mi) to Oran. The 274 Squadriglia had only eight P.108s and with them performed only 28 sorties in eight night missions, during a whole month. Three were shot down by night fighters, which on only one occasion were repelled by the wing turrets. Two P.108s were shot down by 153 Sqn Beaufighters in the attack over Algeria's port and the last of these missions was flown on 20 January. Serviceability dropped to one or two aircraft and so with the need for refurbishment, the P.108s returned to the mainland.
Sicily
The final action took place over Sicily, when the 274ma was reinforced to a total of eight. They flew 12 sorties against the invasion force between 11 and 22 July. Losses included two aircraft destroyed and two others badly damaged, mainly by Beaufighter and Mosquito night fighters. Only one ship was damaged - this closed the career of 274ma and the P.108B.
The last of the 24 P.108Bs ordered was delivered in August. Of these aircraft, six were lost to enemy action (three over Algeria, two over Sicily and perhaps one over Spain), four to accidents (including the one involving Bruno Mussolini) and three to forced landings (one in Algeria and two over Spain).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.108
There you have it. Not the shiniest of careers but it'll likely have a better one in both the MA and in Mediterranean scenarios. AHIII isn't an actual re-enactment. ;)
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Arlo, you forgot the Ki-45. :(
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I have suggested a Japanese late war high performance fighter (specifically for its historic role of being Japan's best B-29 interceptor) and a late war Japanese dive bomber. Both of those were to enhance late war scenarios. It would increase the Japanese plane set to 13.
Ki-100 is not high performance, and was not the best B-29 interceptor. What it was, that other Japanese planes built at that time were not, is reliable.
The J2M 'Jack' Raiden was the best B-29 interceptor.
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Ki-100 is not high performance, and was not the best B-29 interceptor. What it was, that other Japanese planes built at that time were not, is reliable.
The J2M 'Jack' Raiden was the best B-29 interceptor.
While the Raiden was superior in B-29 interception, the K-100 was superior overall. So lets change my rationale to overall performance. :)
"The Ki-100 made its combat debut on the night of 9 March 1945[7] and suffered its first loss on 7 April 1945, when a Ki-100 flown by Master Sergeant Yasuo Hiema of the 18th Sentai was shot down by a B-29 after "attacking the formation again and again".[7][N 1] Allied aircrews soon realised that they were facing a formidable new fighter[12] Although far fewer Ki-100s were available than the Ki-84s, it was considered one of the most important fighters in the inventory. However, during interception of the high-flying B-29s (the B-29 raids soon became low-level missions) the new Japanese fighters struggled as the Ha-112-II engine's performance decreased at high altitudes. The most effective way to attack the Superfortress was by making very dangerous head-on attacks, with the fighter hanging its approach path as it neared the bomber. A failure while attempting this was deadly, because of the concentration of defensive fire from the bombers. In this type of combat, the Navy's Mitsubishi J2M Raiden was superior.[13]
During March and April 1945 experienced instructors from the Akeno Army Flying School flew the Ki-100 in extensive tests against the Ki-84, which was considered to be the best of the JAAF fighters then in operational service. Their conclusions were that, given pilots of equal experience, the Ki-100 would always win in combat.[4] From Mid-April, Major Yasuhiko Kuroe, a highly experienced combat veteran was placed in charge of a "flying circus" made up of captured Allied aircraft, including a Mustang which had been captured in China. This "circus" travelled to various operational fighter bases throughout Japan and was used to train pilots in the best ways to combat enemy aircraft.
On 25 July 1945, 18 Ki-100 fighters from 244th Sentai encountered 10 Hellcats of the light aircraft carrier USS Belleau Wood's Fighter Squadron 31 (VF-31) in an air battle where the Ki-100 pilots claimed 12 victories with only two losses. Claims and counter-claims regarding the true results still arise around this action. The American claims were two Hellcats and two Ki-100s, including Major Tsutae Obara's Ki-100 and Ensign Edwin White's Hellcat which collided, killing both pilots.[14] USN records for 25 July 1945 reflect the loss of two aircraft, both F6F-5's, by VF-31, #78228, piloted by ENS Edwin R. White and #77489, piloted by ENS Herbert L. Law[15]
After the bombing of the Kagamigahara plant and the slow deliveries of components by the satellite plants, production rates of the Ki-100 began to fall more and more, and in the period between May and July, only 12 units were delivered. Finally, production ended due to the bombing, with only 118 units of the Army Type-5 Fighter Model 1b delivered.
The last loss of a Ki-100 occurred on 14 August 1945, a day before the surrender of Japan, when Sergeant Major Fumihiko Tamagake of the 244th Sentai was shot down by a Mustang.[11]
An overall assessment of the effectiveness of the Ki-100 rated it highly in agility, and a well-handled Ki-100 was able to outmanoeuvre any American fighter, including the formidable P-51D Mustangs and the P-47N Thunderbolts which were escorting the B-29 raids over Japan by that time, and was comparable in speed, especially at medium altitudes. In the hands of an experienced pilot, the Ki-100 was a deadly opponent; the Ki-100 and the Army's Ki-84 and the Navy's Kawanishi N1K-J were the only Japanese fighters able to defeat the latest Allied types.[16]"
Francillon, René J. Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War. London: Putnam, 2nd edition, 1979. ISBN 0-370-30251-6
Picarella, Giuseppe. "Database: Kawasaki Ki-100. Article, scale drawings and cutaway." Aeroplane magazine, Volume 33, No 11, Issue No 391, November 2005. London: IPC Media Ltd.
Sakaida, Henry. Japanese Army Air Force Aces 1937-45. Botley, Oxford, UK: Osprey Publishing, 1997. ISBN 1-85532-529-2
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I would still add it before the Beau. :)
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Too bad HTC turns new aircraft out so slowly that the players have to start with the 'this is good for the game' or 'this one was used more in combat' informal fallacies. Nothing wrong with proposing personal favourites.
"During March and April 1945 experienced instructors from the Akeno Army Flying School flew the Ki-100 in extensive tests against the Ki-84, which was considered to be the best of the JAAF fighters then in operational service. Their conclusions were that, given pilots of equal experience, the Ki-100 would always win in combat".
It's hard to see how, unless Kawasaki were channelling Lockheed-Martin. Higher wing-loading, inferior flaps, lower power-loading. I do like it, I've touched the only survivor, but I'd also rather have other things like the Whirlwind - just more interesting to me. Plus it would be better for the game and saw more combat.
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Too bad most folks seem to think they should be pumping out planes and things like they do in War Thunder. :noid
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You can them all after I get my FW-190A9 :D
Faster with it's new TS engine, same guns, thicker oil ring protection. and very minor 3d work required,
910 produced from mid- 44 until end of the war.
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You're so right. the Luftwaffe plane set is so anemic and full of holes it needs that more than anything i suggested. :D
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You're so right. the Luftwaffe plane set is so anemic and full of holes it needs that more than anything i suggested. :D
Well there are indeed serious holes in the Luft plane set, but that A-9 ain't even close to filling one.