General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: saggs on January 01, 2018, 06:46:35 PM
Title: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: saggs on January 01, 2018, 06:46:35 PM
Just a random musing...
So several months ago I had a co-worker who got into the flat earth conspiracy, just for kicks I watched quite a few of the "flat earth proof" videos on youtube, and looked at flat earth facebook pages. The mental gymnastics and willful ignorance these people have to put their brains through to believe what they believe just boggles my mind. What's worse is it's a movement which seems to be growing, just go to youtube and search for "flat earth" and you'll be shocked at the number of hits.
I've decided that I partially blame the internet and social media for this. The way the internet with things like google and facebook work it automatically creates an echo chamber which only reinforces confirmation bias. Somebody goes on google or youtube and searches for "flat earth proof" or "is the earth flat" and they are presented with hundreds of websites and millions of videos "proving" to them the earth is flat. On facebook or google every story you see is based on other stories you've liked so it becomes nothing but an echo chamber for what you "want" to believe is reality. The algorithms which determine what you see never let a reasonable dissenting view come through.
The same holds true not only for wacky conspiracy theories but politics as well. I feel like people are becoming more and more divided and entrenched because every time they go online they are faced with only the reality that they want to believe because that is what the search algorithms have decided will get the most clicks.
Anyway, just something I was thinking about. I see a sad irony in that while the internet holds a wealth of knowledge and information, in today's world it seems to mostly fuel crackpot conspiracy theories and political extremism, rather then actually expanding useful knowledge.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 01, 2018, 07:25:37 PM
Stupid people were around long before the internet and social media were around.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Crash Orange on January 01, 2018, 07:37:34 PM
It has not made people dumber but it has made them less informed. It turns out having professionals acting to some degree as gatekeepers for what gets broadcast to the public was not entirely bad thing. Now every idiot and lunatic gets a microphone and you have millions of people making Jenny McCarthy their go-to expert on medical science.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Volron on January 01, 2018, 07:44:24 PM
1 + 1 = Chair! ;)
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: 8thJinx on January 01, 2018, 08:08:34 PM
People that go for these conspiracies have deeply rooted issues with control and knowledge. If you have a sense that you can't control your own life and it feels like the federal government is a mystery and somehow controlling yours, then the federal government will be the focus of your conspiracies. If you feel like scientists are discovering things that you can't control or understand, or discovering mysterious things that will exert some level of control over your life, then scientists will be the focus of your conspiracies.
When was the last time you heard a conspiracy theory about the folks that collect your garbage.
And it's a two-way street. The folks with power can hold some pretty wacky conspiracy theories, due to issues with perceived power and lack of knowledge. Re: Salem Witch Trials.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 01, 2018, 08:18:58 PM
Not to mention (but I will) that we're essentially talking about people sitting in their underwear (perhaps in their parent's basement - at the age of 30+) and surfing the internet to get an idea of what reality is outside their house (or even anywhere else on Earth).
Don't blame the internet - blame not connecting to reality as much or more than the internet.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Ciaphas on January 01, 2018, 08:20:52 PM
I don't think people are any dumber now than they were before social media, I just think that critical thinking has vanished as everything seems to be at your finger tips and the fact that were are quickly becoming a species where instant gratification is key, people are less likely to research most things and take information on face value regardless of the validity of the source and information.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: 8thJinx on January 01, 2018, 08:34:22 PM
... people are less likely to research most things and take information on face value regardless of the validity of the source and information.
And those people will quickly find themselves at the bottom of the economic ladder, because the folks that do the research and subject incoming information to scrutiny will do better. Which will ultimately drive the offspring of the crackpots into doing research, scrutinizing information, and excelling economically, because face it, who wants to eat bologna sandwiches for the rest of their life.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Meatwad on January 01, 2018, 08:35:08 PM
the interwebs brings the nutjobs closer to other nutjobs
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Ciaphas on January 01, 2018, 08:59:18 PM
And those people will quickly find themselves at the bottom of the economic ladder, because the folks that do the research and subject incoming information to scrutiny will do better. Which will ultimately drive the offspring of the crackpots into doing research, scrutinizing information, and excelling economically, because face it, who wants to eat bologna sandwiches for the rest of their life.
Agreed but laziness is a disease... .
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: horble on January 01, 2018, 09:28:02 PM
It's just made stupid people more visible.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: BoilerDown on January 01, 2018, 11:09:38 PM
I think we need to straight-up mock people, and generally make them feel bad, when they repeat or invent things that have no basis in truth. I'm done with this kind of tolerance or acceptance of all point of views when it comes to scientific fact. Being nice has proven itself to not work. These people need ostracism and public scorn.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Zimme83 on January 02, 2018, 03:31:47 AM
A good read on the subject: "Suspicious Minds" by Rob Brotherton
the interwebs brings the nutjobs closer to other nutjobs
^this. Instead of having isolated groups of lunatics here and there they now can exceed the critical mass for sort of a mass hysteria to strengthen their beliefs. One million flies can't be wrong...
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: OldNitro on January 02, 2018, 05:43:11 AM
Yeah, there is a lot of fruity stuff on the internet.. Like Flat Earth, Nibiru, and Nephilim.. All harmless..
But I can also list topics that were called "Tin Hat".. That turned out to be completely true and factual.. Echelon, Stingray, Prizm, Mainway, Predator, ICReach, These are just a few, that are definitely NOT harmless..
Without internet "Conspiracy Theorists", we wouldn't know anything about their abuses of Statist power, against their own citizens! And the complicity of the tech giants who are involved in these illegal programs!
I'd call that MORE informed, not less!
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Copprhed on January 02, 2018, 09:23:09 AM
The internet doen't make people more stupid, it allows more stupid people to communicate with each other and reinforce their stupidity. They do it with rebellion against science(climate change for one, flat earth, no lunar landing, etc.) It has changed from a potential force for good, into a vehicle for the worst of mankind to spout their bile.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Skuzzy on January 02, 2018, 09:48:24 AM
The ignorant, by far and away, outnumber the knowledgeable in any given topic of discussion.
I blame Youtube and Wikipedia for the primary resources for the dispersing of bad information. I do not think ignorance is as bad as corrupted information is. Unfortunately, the ignorant do not know any better and so it spirals out of control.
Just FYI. The original Darpa and Arpa NET were comprised of the most knowledgeable people around (university professors, MIT, NASA scientists, JPL...). It was a pure joy to participate in discussions among those people.
AOL ruined it all.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Copprhed on January 02, 2018, 12:23:41 PM
The ignorant, by far and away, outnumber the knowledgeable in any given topic of discussion.
I blame Youtube and Wikipedia for the primary resources for the dispersing of bad information. I do not think ignorance is as bad as corrupted information is. Unfortunately, the ignorant do not know any better and so it spirals out of control.
Just FYI. The original Darpa and Arpa NET were comprised of the most knowledgeable people around (university professors, MIT, NASA scientists, JPL...). It was a pure joy to participate in discussions among those people.
AOL ruined it all.
You have spoken the truth.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Ramesis on January 02, 2018, 12:44:44 PM
^this. Instead of having isolated groups of lunatics here and there they now can exceed the critical mass for sort of a mass hysteria to strengthen their beliefs. One million flies can't be wrong...
I think that snowball effect might have a tendency to make people less informed.
Where before you wouldn't have had instant reinforcement of whatever crackpot ideas you may have, and in the course of looking stuff up you might have run across information that changed your mind. The way things are, it's incredibly easy to find an echo chamber for pretty much any idea you can think of regardless of its validity.
There are people who would've been crackpots regardless of what information they had access to, but I think there are also people who might not have been if they didn't have that near instant feedback and validation.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Vulcan on January 02, 2018, 01:15:24 PM
The internet has allowed the stupid people on this planet to communicate with each other and amplify their stupidity on logarithmic scale.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Lusche on January 02, 2018, 01:20:00 PM
Isn't it strange that "the stupid" are always the other people?
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 02, 2018, 01:23:05 PM
Isn't it strange that "the stupid" are always the other people?
No it isn't. It's common knowledge. Ask any people in the World and it's always the other people. If that weren't the truth, every single person on this planet would be wrong.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: horble on January 02, 2018, 01:25:50 PM
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: zack1234 on January 02, 2018, 04:08:32 PM
When Caxton invented the printing press the Powers that be kaked themselves :old:
The fact that people now adays have hundreds of friends on Facebook and dont really know them shows the silliness of people, I joined Facebook two months ago then deleted it.
The invention of the internet and the jet engine are the reasons stupid people can gain information and then travel the world in the knowledge that they are informed.
People thinking they are in charge and their views are important is the biggest conspiracy theory :rofl
In the 1990s my boss and myself added information to Wikiidiot on a regular basis, I think some of it is still on there and now has become fact, Simon Johns a TSG manager was in the screen play for Dirty dancing :rofl, it was on there for 8 years :rofl
By the way the moon landings are a myth and so it the moon, its a projection invented by a dog breeder called Mr Issac Broom in West Yorkshire in 1023, he used it too calm the dogs at night :old:
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: pembquist on January 02, 2018, 07:41:53 PM
I remember the first time I read something in a book that I knew was completely untrue. (This was before the PC.) It was a startling epiphany and suddenly the phrase "don't believe everything you read" actually had significant meaning. One problem of the interwebs beyond the expansion to the nth degree of stuff to read is that there is no authority whatsoever but Google sort of slips into that space. It vomits up search results and by doing so suggests that the results have credibility. Google would never claim to be an authority but what it is doing actually makes it hard to escape being one. It is hard to be useful authority and depend on algorithms for editing. For example: https://searchengineland.com/google-holocaust-denial-site-gone-266353 (https://searchengineland.com/google-holocaust-denial-site-gone-266353) and https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/17/holocaust-deniers-google-search-top-spot (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/17/holocaust-deniers-google-search-top-spot)
I think we are going to have to advance somehow to deal with this change and I think Google and Facebook basically denying any responsibility isn't going to help. They really need to develop leadership and standards.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: zack1234 on January 03, 2018, 12:02:44 AM
Moodle and Facemuck need to do nothing and censor nothing, they are commercial enterprises who are not fit to dictate whats on the internet.
If they have rubbish displayed its up to individuals to argue against it.
The owners of facemuck and moodle are not fit to decide what people should be allowed to see or read.
That Zuckerberg prancing about trying to be Mother Theresa or John Lennon does not fool me.
Bono the Pratt from U2 was at the UN last year telling them to play music to ISIS to stop them fighting, this is how the status of celebritys has used mass media to influence the masses :rofl
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: pembquist on January 03, 2018, 01:23:17 AM
No, doodleberg, and lunchfoogle don't need to censor or tell us there precious opinions. What they have to do is not promote as remotely factual the garbage that a small percentage of evil morons insist on dreaming up with the excuse that "well, it is what you liked." They should not put at the top of a list of responses to a query confabulations of Nazi scum.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: zack1234 on January 03, 2018, 07:30:32 AM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 03, 2018, 08:15:45 AM
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Bizman on January 03, 2018, 09:30:32 AM
The search engine algorithms work way too well by fortifying any type of opinions based on the first search results to be clicked, unless of course if the user is smart enough to a) not be logged in to any services of the search engine provider while doing a search, b) disable the said provider to make a profile (and hoping they do as they promise), c) frequently flush any cookies that might contain information about previous searches or other activity that might affect the search and d) be smart enough to read up on opposite answers in the search results.
Sad thing is that most people don't even know about profiling and how it correlates with search results.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: OldNitro on January 03, 2018, 09:41:21 AM
If you quit liking and disliking videos and posts, then the algorithm won't have that to work with, as far as your opinions go.. That helps a little!
Although it can still see what you click on.. Ixquick and Startpage proxy search, helps some too..
But if you are looking at WW2 history vids, you are gonna get some of that flaky revisionist history, holocaust denial, and Hitler/Stalin fetishist garbage IN the search results.. It's everywhere!
To me, I think it's funny that people are that stupid! I make fun of them, SIEG FAIL! :rofl
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Copprhed on January 03, 2018, 09:45:12 AM
Isn't it strange that "the stupid" are always the other people?
If you play AH3, you CANNOT be stupid!!! :x :bolt:
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: icepac on January 04, 2018, 07:06:59 PM
People haven't gotten dumber.
It's just far easier to step forward and be recognized as a moron than ever before.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: puller on January 04, 2018, 07:55:18 PM
The internet really shines a bright light on the dumb in the world. Especially if you know where to look. :noid
Oh IN :rock
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Karnak on January 04, 2018, 08:36:10 PM
It certainly enables people to pick and choose their sources of information so as to confirm their existing bias' and to avoid being made uncomfortable by being confronted by facts that don't mesh with their desired world.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: 1stpar3 on January 04, 2018, 11:32:47 PM
Not to mention (but I will) that we're essentially talking about people sitting in their underwear (perhaps in their parent's basement - at the age of 30+) and surfing the internet to get an idea of what reality is outside their house (or even anywhere else on Earth).
Don't blame the internet - blame not connecting to reality as much or more than the internet.
ARe you WATCHING ME :uhoh Underwear-check no basement but still parents house-check 30+- way PLUS(check) surfing net- sort of :Ocheck See where I get you watching me :neener: Oh, and I only do that for THE GOOD VIDEOS :x :bolt:
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 05, 2018, 12:40:55 AM
ARe you WATCHING ME :uhoh Underwear-check no basement but still parents house-check 30+- way PLUS(check) surfing net- sort of :Ocheck See where I get you watching me :neener: Oh, and I only do that for THE GOOD VIDEOS :x :bolt:
:rofl :aok
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: lyric1 on January 05, 2018, 04:10:21 AM
I work with two of the flat earth crowd. Internet had nothing to do with their beliefs both are close to retirement age and have always believed the world is flat. I wont say why they believe it because I would be in violation of one of the two big no no's that can't be discussed on the forums. Hint its not politics.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: zack1234 on January 05, 2018, 07:27:57 AM
If its not flat what is it?
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Bizman on January 05, 2018, 07:31:23 AM
I don't think people are any dumber now than they were before social media, I just think that critical thinking has vanished as everything seems to be at your finger tips and the fact that were are quickly becoming a species where instant gratification is key, people are less likely to research most things and take information on face value regardless of the validity of the source and information.
I agree, and I believe the ability to achieve instant gratification by taking advantage of the internet's resources has dumbed down our society to a degree. Let's say you are researching something of interest. The internet allows you to cut through the clutter and go straight to the answers you are looking for. Very efficient, but how much of that "clutter" is actually additional knowledge missed that would have been absorbed forty years ago when you read an entire book in order to realize your answer?
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Skuzzy on January 10, 2018, 01:05:48 PM
And how much of what you find is accurate? See that is the biggest problem with the Internet. Anyone can find anything they need, even if it is not accurate.
Wikipedia is one of the biggest propagators of incorrect data, for example.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 10, 2018, 01:14:10 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II
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Aircraft played a highly important role in defeating the German U-boats (Schofield 1981, p. 122). Jump up ^ Steury 1987, p. 209; Zetterling & Tamelander 2009, p. 282. Jump up ^ Dear & Foot 2001, pp. 1089. Jump up ^ Overy & Wheatcroft 1999, pp. 32830. Jump up ^ Maingot 1994, p. 52. Jump up ^ Cantril 1940, p. 390. Jump up ^ Skinner Watson, Mark. "Coordination With Britain". US Army in WWII Chief of Staff: Prewar Plans and Operations. Jump up ^ Bilhartz & Elliott 2007, p. 179. Jump up ^ Dear & Foot 2001, p. 877. Jump up ^ Dear & Foot 2001, pp. 7456. Jump up ^ Clogg 2002, p. 118. Jump up ^ Evans 2008, pp. 146, 152; US Army 1986, pp. 46 Jump up ^ Jowett 2001, pp. 910. Jump up ^ Jackson 2006, p. 106. Jump up ^ Laurier 2001, pp. 78. Jump up ^ Murray & Millett 2001, pp. 2637. Jump up ^ Macksey 1997, pp. 613. Jump up ^ Weinberg 2005, p. 229. Jump up ^ Watson 2003, p. 80. Jump up ^ Jackson 2006, p. 154. Jump up ^ Garver 1988, p. 114. Jump up ^ Weinberg 2005, p. 195. Jump up ^ Murray 1983, p. 69. ^ Jump up to: a b Klooz, Marle; Wiley, Evelyn (1944), Events leading up to World War II Chronological History, 78th Congress, 2d Session House Document N. 541, Director: Humphrey, Richard A., Washington: US Government Printing Office, pp. 267312 (1941). Jump up ^ Sella 1978. Jump up ^ Kershaw 2007, pp. 669. Jump up ^ Steinberg 1995. Jump up ^ Hauner 1978. Jump up ^ Roberts 1995. Jump up ^ Wilt 1981. Jump up ^ Erickson 2003, pp. 11437. Jump up ^ Glantz 2001, p. 9. Jump up ^ Farrell 1993. Jump up ^ Keeble 1990, p. 29. Jump up ^ Bueno de Mesquita et al. 2003, p. 425. Jump up ^ Beevor 2012, p. 220. Jump up ^ Kleinfeld 1983. Jump up ^ Jukes 2001, p. 113. Jump up ^ Glantz 2001, p. 26: "By 1 November [the Wehrmacht] had lost fully 20% of its committed strength (686,000 men), up to 2/3 of its ½-million motor vehicles, and 65 percent of its tanks. The German Army High Command (OKH) rated its 136 divisions as equivalent to 83 full-strength divisions." Jump up ^ Reinhardt 1992, p. 227. Jump up ^ Milward 1964. Jump up ^ Rotundo 1986. Jump up ^ Glantz 2001, p. 26. Jump up ^ Garthoff 1969. Jump up ^ Beevor 1998, pp. 412; Evans 2008, pp. 2134, notes that "Zhukov had pushed the Germans back where they had launched Operation Typhoon two months before. ... Only Stalin's decision to attack all along the front instead of concentrating his forces in an all-out assault against the retreating German Army Group Centre prevented the disaster from being even worse." Jump up ^ Jowett & Andrew 2002, p. 14. Jump up ^ Overy & Wheatcroft 1999, p. 289. Jump up ^ Morison 2002, p. 60. Jump up ^ Joes 2004, p. 224. Jump up ^ Fairbank & Goldman 2006, p. 320. Jump up ^ Hsu & Chang 1971, p. 30. Jump up ^ Hsu & Chang 1971, p. 33. Jump up ^ "Japanese Policy and Strategy 1931 July 1941". US Army in WWII Strategy and Command: The First Two Years. pp. 4566. Jump up ^ Anderson 1975, p. 201. Jump up ^ Evans & Peattie 2012, p. 456. Jump up ^ Coox, Alvin (1985). Nomonhan: Japan against Russia, 1939. Stanford, California: Stanford University Press. pp. 10461049. ISBN 0-8047-1835-0.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 10, 2018, 01:14:56 PM
^ Jump up to: a b "The decision for War". US Army in WWII Strategy and Command: The First Two Years. pp. 11327. ^ Jump up to: a b "The Showdown With Japan AugDec 1941". US Army in WWII Strategic Planning for Coalition Warfare. pp. 6396. Jump up ^ The United States Replies. Investigation of the Pearl Harbor attack. Jump up ^ Painter 2012, p. 26: "The United States cut off oil exports to Japan in the summer of 1941, forcing Japanese leaders to choose between going to war to seize the oil fields of the Netherlands East Indies or giving in to U.S. pressure." Wood 2007, p. 9, listing various military and diplomatic developments, observes that "the threat to Japan was not purely economic." Jump up ^ Lightbody 2004, p. 125. Jump up ^ Weinberg 2005, p. 310; Dower 1986, p. 5, calls attention to the fact that "the Allied struggle against Japan exposed the racist underpinnings of the European and American colonial structure. Japan did not invade independent countries in southern Asia. It invaded colonial outposts which the Westerners had dominated for generations, taking absolutely for granted their racial and cultural superiority over their Asian subjects." Dower goes on to note that, before the horrors of Japanese occupation made themselves felt, many Asians responded favourably to the victories of the Imperial Japanese forces. Jump up ^ Wood 2007, pp. 112. ^ Jump up to: a b Wohlstetter 1962, pp. 3413. Jump up ^ Dunn 1998, p. 157. According to May 1955, p. 155, Churchill stated: "Russian declaration of war on Japan would be greatly to our advantage, provided, but only provided, that Russians are confident that will not impair their Western Front." Jump up ^ Adolf Hitler's Declaration of War against the United States in Wikisource. Jump up ^ Klooz, Marle; Wiley, Evelyn (1944), Events leading up to World War II Chronological History, 78th Congress, 2d Session House Document N. 541, Director: Humphrey, Richard A., Washington: US Government Printing Office, p. 310 (1941). Jump up ^ Bosworth & Maiolo 2015, pp. 313314. Jump up ^ Mingst & Karns 2007, p. 22. Jump up ^ "The First Full Dress Debate over Strategic Deployment. Dec 1941 Jan 1942". US Army in WWII Strategic Planning for Coalition Warfare. pp. 97119. Jump up ^ "The Elimination of the Alternatives. JulAug 1942". US Army in WWII Strategic Planning for Coalition Warfare. pp. 26692. Jump up ^ "Casablanca Beginning of an Era: January 1943". US Army in WWII Strategic Planning for Coalition Warfare. pp. 1842. Jump up ^ "The Trident Conference New Patterns: May 1943". US Army in WWII Strategic Planning for Coalition Warfare. pp. 12645. Jump up ^ Beevor 2012, pp. 247267, 345. Jump up ^ Lewis 1953, p. 529 (Table 11). Jump up ^ Slim 1956, pp. 714. Jump up ^ Grove 1995, p. 362. Jump up ^ Ch'i 1992, p. 158. Jump up ^ Perez 1998, p. 145. Jump up ^ Maddox 1992, pp. 1112. Jump up ^ Salecker 2001, p. 186. Jump up ^ Schoppa 2011, p. 28. Jump up ^ Chevrier & Chomiczewski & Garrigue 2004, p.19. Jump up ^ Ropp 2000, p. 368. Jump up ^ Weinberg 2005, p. 339. Jump up ^ Gilbert, Adrian (2003). The Encyclopedia of Warfare: From Earliest Times to the Present Day. Globe Pequot. p. 259. ISBN 1-59228-027-7. Jump up ^ Swain 2001, p. 197. Jump up ^ Hane 2001, p. 340. Jump up ^ Marston 2005, p. 111. Jump up ^ Brayley 2002, p. 9. Jump up ^ Glantz 2001, p. 31. Jump up ^ Read 2004, p. 764. Jump up ^ Davies 2006, p. 100 (2008 ed.). Jump up ^ Beevor 1998, pp. 23965. Jump up ^ Black 2003, p. 119. Jump up ^ Beevor 1998, pp. 38391. Jump up ^ Erickson 2001, p. 142. Jump up ^ Milner 1990, p. 52. Jump up ^ Beevor 2012, pp. 2248. Jump up ^ Molinari 2007, p. 91. Jump up ^ Mitcham 2007, p. 31. Jump up ^ Beevor 2012, pp. 3801. Jump up ^ Rich 1992, p. 178. Jump up ^ Gordon 2004, p. 129. Jump up ^ Neillands 2005. Jump up ^ Keegan 1997, p. 277. Jump up ^ Smith 2002. Jump up ^ Thomas & Andrew 1998, p. 8. ^ Jump up to: a b c d Ross 1997, p. 38. Jump up ^ Bonner & Bonner 2001, p. 24. Jump up ^ Collier 2003, p. 11. Jump up ^ "The Civilians" United States Strategic Bombing Survey Summary Report (European War) Jump up ^ Thompson & Randall 2008, p. 164. Jump up ^ Kennedy 2001, p. 610. Jump up ^ Rottman 2002, p. 228. Jump up ^ Glantz 1986; Glantz 1989, pp. 14959. Jump up ^ Kershaw 2001, p. 592. Jump up ^ O'Reilly 2001, p. 32. Jump up ^ Overy 1995, pp. 119120. Jump up ^ Bellamy 2007, p. 595. Jump up ^ O'Reilly 2001, p. 35. Jump up ^ Healy 1992, p. 90. Jump up ^ Glantz 2001, pp. 505. Jump up ^ Kolko 1990, p. 45 Jump up ^ Mazower 2008, p. 362. Jump up ^ Hart, Hart & Hughes 2000, p. 151. Jump up ^ Blinkhorn 2006, p. 52. Jump up ^ Read & Fisher 2002, p. 129. Jump up ^ Padfield 1998, pp. 3356. Jump up ^ Kolko 1990, pp. 211, 235, 2678. Jump up ^ Iriye 1981, p. 154. Jump up ^ Mitter 2014, p. 286. Jump up ^ Polley 2000, p. 148. Jump up ^ Beevor 2012, pp. 26874. Jump up ^ Ch'i 1992, p. 161. Jump up ^ Hsu & Chang 1971, pp. 412416, Map 38 Jump up ^ Weinberg 2005, pp. 6601. Jump up ^ Glantz 2002, pp. 32766. Jump up ^ Glantz 2002, pp. 367414. Jump up ^ Chubarov 2001, p. 122. Jump up ^ Holland 2008, pp. 16984; Beevor 2012, pp. 56873. The weeks after the fall of Rome saw a dramatic upswing in German atrocities in Italy (Mazower 2008, pp. 5002). The period featured massacres with victims in the hundreds at Civitella (de Grazia & Paggi 1991; Belco 2010), Fosse Ardeatine (Portelli 2003), and Sant'Anna di Stazzema (Gordon 2012, pp. 101), and is capped with the Marzabotto massacre. Jump up ^ Lightbody 2004, p. 224. ^ Jump up to: a b Zeiler 2004, p. 60. Jump up ^ Beevor 2012, pp. 55560. Jump up ^ Ch'i 1992, p. 163. Jump up ^ Coble 2003, p. 85. Jump up ^ Rees 2008, pp. 4067: "Stalin always believed that Britain and America were delaying the second front so that the Soviet Union would bear the brunt of the war." Jump up ^ Weinberg 2005, p. 695. Jump up ^ Badsey 1990, p. 91. Jump up ^ Dear & Foot 2001, p. 562. Jump up ^ Forrest, Evans & Gibbons 2012, p. 191 Jump up ^ Zaloga 1996, p. 7: "It was the most calamitous defeat of all the German armed forces in World War II." Jump up ^ Berend 1996, p. 8. Jump up ^ "Armistice Negotiations and Soviet Occupation". US Library of Congress. Retrieved 14 November 2009. The coup speeded the Red Army's advance, and the Soviet Union later awarded Michael the Order of Victory for his personal courage in overthrowing Antonescu and putting an end to Romania's war against the Allies. Western historians uniformly point out that the Communists played only a supporting role in the coup; postwar Romanian historians, however, ascribe to the Communists the decisive role in Antonescu's overthrow Jump up ^ Evans 2008, p. 653. Jump up ^ Wiest & Barbier 2002, pp. 656. Jump up ^ Wiktor, Christian L (1998). Multilateral Treaty Calendar 16481995. Kluwer Law International. p. 426. ISBN 90-411-0584-0. Jump up ^ Newton 2004. Jump up ^ Marston 2005, p. 120. Jump up ^ Article about War of Resistance "Archived copy". Archived from the original on 2016-03-03. Retrieved 2013-03-16. Jump up ^ Jowett & Andrew 2002, p. 8.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 10, 2018, 01:16:18 PM
Jump up ^ Howard 2004, p. 140. Jump up ^ Drea 2003, p. 54. Jump up ^ Cook & Bewes 1997, p. 305. ^ Jump up to: a b Parker 2004, pp. xiiixiv, 68, 6870, 329330 Jump up ^ Glantz 2001, p. 85. Jump up ^ Beevor 2012, pp. 70922. Jump up ^ Buchanan 2006, p. 21. Jump up ^ Shepardson 1998. Jump up ^ O'Reilly 2001, p. 244. Jump up ^ Kershaw 2001, p. 823. Jump up ^ Evans 2008, p. 737. Jump up ^ Glantz 1998, p. 24. Jump up ^ Chant, Christopher (1986). The Encyclopedia of Codenames of World War II. Routledge & Kegan Paul. p. 118. ISBN 0-7102-0718-2. Jump up ^ John Dower (2007). "Lessons from Iwo Jima". Perspectives. 45 (6): 5456. Jump up ^ Drea 2003, p. 57. Jump up ^ Jowett & Andrew 2002, p. 6. Jump up ^ Poirier, Michel Thomas (20 October 1999). "Results of the German and American Submarine Campaigns of World War II". U.S. Navy. Archived from the original on 9 April 2008. Retrieved 13 April 2008. Jump up ^ Williams 2006, p. 90. Jump up ^ Miscamble 2007, p. 201. Jump up ^ Miscamble 2007, pp. 2034. Jump up ^ Charles F. Brower (16 October 2012). Defeating Japan: The Joint Chiefs of Staff and Strategy in the Pacific War, 19431945. Palgrave Macmillan. pp. 133144. Jump up ^ Glantz 2005. Jump up ^ Pape 1993. Jump up ^ Beevor 2012, p. 776. Jump up ^ Frei 2002, pp. 4166. Jump up ^ Roberts 2006, p. 43. Jump up ^ Roberts 2006, p. 55. Jump up ^ Shirer 1990, p. 794. Jump up ^ Kennedy-Pipe 1995. Jump up ^ Wettig 2008, pp. 201. Jump up ^ Senn 2007, p. ?. Jump up ^ Yoder 1997, p. 39. Jump up ^ "History of the UN". United Nations. Archived from the original on 18 February 2010. Retrieved 25 January 2010. Jump up ^ Waltz 2002. The UDHR is viewable here [1]. Jump up ^ Kantowicz 2000, p. 6. Jump up ^ Wettig 2008, pp. 96100. Jump up ^ Trachtenberg 1999, p. 33. Jump up ^ Applebaum 2012. Jump up ^ Naimark 2010. Jump up ^ Swain 1992. Jump up ^ Borstelmann 2005, p. 318. Jump up ^ Leffler & Westad 2010. Jump up ^ Weinberg 2005, p. 911. Jump up ^ Stueck 2010. Jump up ^ Lynch 2010, pp. 123. 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Jump up ^ White, Matthew. "Source List and Detailed Death Tolls for the Twentieth Century Hemoclysm". Historical Atlas of the Twentieth Century. Matthew White's Homepage. Retrieved 20 April 2007. Jump up ^ "World War II Fatalities". secondworldwar.co.uk. Retrieved 20 April 2007. Jump up ^ Hosking 2006, p. 242 Jump up ^ Ellman & Maksudov 1994. Jump up ^ Smith 1994, p. 204. Jump up ^ Herf 2003. Jump up ^ friedrich, karsten. "The Cruel Slaughter of Adolf Hitler". Lulu.com. Retrieved 27 August 2017 via Google Books. Jump up ^ Florida Center for Instructional Technology (2005). "Victims". A Teacher's Guide to the Holocaust. University of South Florida. Retrieved 2 February 2008. ^ Jump up to: a b Niewyk & Nicosia 2000, pp. 4552. Jump up ^ Snyder, Timothy. "Holocaust: The Ignored Reality". The New York Review of Books. Retrieved 27 August 2017. Jump up ^ "Polish Victims". www.ushmm.org. Retrieved 27 August 2017. Jump up ^ "Non-Jewish Holocaust Victims : The 5,000,000 others". BBC. April 2006. Retrieved 4 August 2013. Jump up ^ Evans 2008, pp. 15860, 2346. Jump up ^ Dear & Foot 2001, p. 290. Jump up ^ Rummell, R. J. "Statistics". Freedom, Democide, War. The University of Hawaii System. Retrieved 25 January 2010. Jump up ^ Chang 1997, p. 102. Jump up ^ Bix 2000, p. ?. Jump up ^ Gold, Hal (1996). Unit 731 testimony. Tuttle. pp. 757. ISBN 0-8048-3565-9. Jump up ^ Tucker & Roberts 2004, p. 320. Jump up ^ Harris 2002, p. 74. Jump up ^ Lee 2002, p. 69. Jump up ^ "Japan tested chemical weapons on Aussie POW: new evidence". The Japan Times Online. 27 July 2004. Archived from the original on 29 May 2012. Retrieved 25 January 2010. Jump up ^ Kużniar-Plota, Małgorzata (30 November 2004). "Decision to commence investigation into Katyn Massacre". Departmental Commission for the Prosecution of Crimes against the Polish Nation. Retrieved 4 August 2011. Jump up ^ Robert Gellately. Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler: The Age of Social Catastrophe. Knopf, 2007 ISBN 1-4000-4005-1 p. 391 Jump up ^ Terror from the Sky: The Bombing of German Cities in World War II. Berghahn Books. 2010. p. 167. ISBN 1-84545-844-3. Jump up ^ Institute of National Remembrance, Polska 19391945 Straty osobowe i ofiary represji pod dwiema okupacjami. Materski and Szarota. page 9 "Total Polish population losses under German occupation are currently calculated at about 2 770 000". ^ Jump up to: a b Marek, Michael (27 October 2005). "Final Compensation Pending for Former Nazi Forced Laborers". dw-world.de. Deutsche Welle. Archived from the original on 19 January 2010. Retrieved 19 January 2010. Jump up ^ Applebaum 2003. Jump up ^ Herbert 1994, p. 222 Jump up ^ Overy 2004, pp. 5689. Jump up ^ Zemskov V.N. On repatriation of Soviet citizens. Istoriya SSSR., 1990, No.4, (in Russian). See also [2] (online version), and Bacon 1992; Ellman 2002. Jump up ^ "Japanese Atrocities in the Philippines". American Experience: the Bataan Rescue. PBS Online. Archived from the original on 19 January 2010. Retrieved 18 January 2010. Jump up ^ Tanaka 1996, pp. 23. Jump up ^ Bix 2000, p. 360. ^ Jump up to: a b Ju, Zhifen (June 2002). "Japan's atrocities of conscripting and abusing north China draughtees after the outbreak of the Pacific war". Joint Study of the Sino-Japanese War:Minutes of the June 2002 Conference. Harvard University Faculty of Arts and Sciences. Archived from the original on 21 May 2012. Retrieved 28 December 2013. ^ Jump up to: a b "Indonesia: World War II and the Struggle For Independence, 194250; The Japanese Occupation, 194245". Library of Congress. 1992. Retrieved 9 February 2007. Jump up ^ "Manzanar National Historic Site". U.S. National Park Service. Retrieved 21 February 2012. Jump up ^ Department of Labour of Canada (24 January 1947). Report on the Re-establishment of Japanese in Canada, 19441946. Department of Labour. Office of the Prime Minister. p. 23. ISBN 0-405-11266-1. Jump up ^ Kennedy 2001, pp. 74950. Jump up ^ Davidson 1999, p. 121. Jump up ^ Stark, Tamαs. ""Malenki Robot" Hungarian Forced Labourers in the Soviet Union (19441955)" (PDF). Minorities Research. Retrieved 22 January 2010. Jump up ^ Liberman 1996, p. 42. Jump up ^ Milward 1992, p. 138. Jump up ^ Milward 1992, p. 148. Jump up ^ Barber & Harrison 2006, p. 232. Jump up ^ Hill 2005, p. 5. Jump up ^ Christofferson & Christofferson 2006, p. 156 Jump up ^ Radtke 1997, p. 107. ^ Jump up to: a b Rahn 2001, p. 266. ^ Jump up to: a b Harrison 1998, p. 3. Jump up ^ Mark R. Wilson, Destructive Creation: American Business and the Winning of World War II (2016) p.2. Jump up ^ Harrison 1998, p. 2. Jump up ^ Bernstein 1991, p. 267. Jump up ^ Griffith, Charles (1999). The Quest: Haywood Hansell and American Strategic Bombing in World War II. DIANE Publishing. p. 203. ISBN 1-58566-069-8. Jump up ^ Overy 1994, p. 26. Jump up ^ BBSU 1998, p. 84; Lindberg & Todd 2001, p. 126.. Jump up ^ Unidas, Naciones (2005). World Economic And Social Survey 2004: International Migration. United Nations Pubns. p. 23. ISBN 92-1-109147-0. Jump up ^ Tucker & Roberts 2004, p. 76. Jump up ^ Levine 1992, p. 227. Jump up ^ Klavans, Di Benedetto & Prudom 1997; Ward 2010, pp. 24751. Jump up ^ Tucker & Roberts 2004, p. 163. Jump up ^ Bishop, Chris; Chant, Chris (2004). Aircraft Carriers: The World's Greatest Naval Vessels and Their Aircraft. Wigston, Leics: Silverdale Books. p. 7. ISBN 1-84509-079-9. Jump up ^ Chenoweth, H. Avery; Nihart, Brooke (2005). Semper Fi: The Definitive Illustrated History of the U.S. Marines. New York: Main Street. p. 180. ISBN 1-4027-3099-3. Jump up ^ Sumner & Baker 2001, p. 25. Jump up ^ Hearn 2007, p. 14. Jump up ^ Gardiner & Brown 2004, p. 52. Jump up ^ Burcher & Rydill 1995, p. 15. Jump up ^ Burcher & Rydill 1995, p. 16. ^ Jump up to: a b Tucker & Roberts 2004, p. 125. Jump up ^ Dupuy, Trevor Nevitt (1982). The Evolution of Weapons and Warfare. Jane's Information Group. p. 231. ISBN 0-7106-0123-9. ^ Jump up to: a b Tucker & Roberts 2004, p. 108. Jump up ^ Tucker & Roberts 2004, p. 734. ^ Jump up to: a b Cowley & Parker 2001, p. 221. Jump up ^ Sprague, Oliver; Griffiths, Hugh (2006). "The AK-47: the worlds favourite killing machine" (PDF). controlarms.org. p. 1. Archived from the original (PDF) on 30 April 2011. Retrieved 14 November 2009. Jump up ^ Ratcliff 2006, p. 11. ^ Jump up to: a b Schoenherr, Steven (2007). "Code Breaking in World War II". History Department at the University of San Diego. Archived from the original on 9 May 2008. Retrieved 15 November 2009. Jump up ^ Macintyre, Ben (10 December 2010). "Bravery of thousands of Poles was vital in securing victory". The Times. London. p. 27. Jump up ^ Rowe, Neil C.; Rothstein, Hy. "Deception for Defense of Information Systems: Analogies from Conventional Warfare". Departments of Computer Science and Defense Analysis U.S. Naval Postgraduate School. Air University. Retrieved 15 November 2009.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 10, 2018, 01:17:39 PM
Just an example of Wiki also providing well cited material. ;)
Universities do not accept Wikipedia as a valid source for papers. However, Wikipedia is still a tool that can be used effectively. If you find content there, regarding your subject, go to the citations and copy them for follow-up. The sources cited are fine, if they are academic and peer reviewed.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Wiley on January 10, 2018, 01:30:23 PM
Just an example of Wiki also providing well cited material. ;)
Devil's advocating here, but unless someone notices it is wrong, if you provide a citation on a wiki what confirms that the cited work actually says what you claim? For example, if I put on the Wiki that the 190D-9 had a deck speed of 450mph and cited a well known book about it until another user noticed it, it would show as cited on the wiki until it was corrected, wouldn't it?
Niche technical stuff is a pretty bad example because 4000 guys who read the wiki every day will have read the book referenced and have stuff like that memorized, but do you get what I mean? "Wiley is never wrong." -Abraham Lincoln, autobiography.
I'd say the wiki might be a half decent starting point to find other sources through the citations to look stuff up from, but it's suspect as a "primary" source.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 10, 2018, 01:37:46 PM
Devil's advocating here, but unless someone notices it is wrong, if you provide a citation on a wiki what confirms that the cited work actually says what you claim? For example, if I put on the Wiki that the 190D-9 had a deck speed of 450mph and cited a well known book about it until another user noticed it, it would show as cited on the wiki until it was corrected, wouldn't it?
Niche technical stuff is a pretty bad example because 4000 guys who read the wiki every day will have read the book referenced and have stuff like that memorized, but do you get what I mean? "Wiley is never wrong." -Abraham Lincoln, autobiography.
I'd say the wiki might be a half decent starting point to find other sources through the citations to look stuff up from, but it's suspect as a "primary" source.
Wiley.
I didn't say it's an ideal (or even a) 'primary source.' I illustrated how it is an effective tool to find sources through citation. As effective, if not more so, than the online databases/search engines provided through my university (which, quite honestly, can be just as bad as trying to use Google). :)
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 10, 2018, 01:45:46 PM
Granted ....
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Wiley on January 10, 2018, 01:47:13 PM
I didn't say it's an ideal (or even a) 'primary source.' I illustrated how it is an effective tool to find sources through citation. As effective, if not more so, than the online databases/search engines provided through my university (which, quite honestly, can be just as bad as trying to use Google). :)
Sorry, misunderstood what you were saying. I agree.
Wiley.
Title: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Ciaphas on January 10, 2018, 02:19:33 PM
But the person needs to be able to sift through the citations based on the authors bias. depending on the subject matter this can change the entire outline of the information presented.
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Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Wiley on January 10, 2018, 02:22:19 PM
But the person needs to be able to sift through the citations based on the authors bias. depending on the subject matter this can change the entire outline of the information presented.
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But that's no different from looking at any source.
But what Arlo's describing is not how the vast majority of people use the internet in the second place. ;)
Wiley.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Skuzzy on January 10, 2018, 02:31:05 PM
Arlo, I did not say all of Wikipedia was useless. Like was stated, context is everything. Take something out of context and you can find whatever you want to support any thought you might have. Look at the flat Earthers for an extreme example.
Just because it has citations does not make it accurate. Context is king.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Ciaphas on January 10, 2018, 02:44:34 PM
Agreed
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Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 10, 2018, 02:44:44 PM
But the person needs to be able to sift through the citations based on the authors bias. depending on the subject matter this can change the entire outline of the information presented.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The only way you can tell bias is if it's in the title. For instance, if the title of a source reads 'Why Italian Bombers in WWII Were Inferior' and another reads 'Why Italian Bombers in WWII Were Superior' then the bias is obvious. Likely, though, you'll get 'Italian Bombers of WWII' and you'll have to read the material to see if there is bias (recognizing that your own bias may be part of the perception).
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 10, 2018, 02:45:33 PM
An acquaintance of ours has some... "controversial opinions" shall we say? It used to crack me up, you could show her all kinds of research on whatever she was on about, she'd point at the one site saying something different as definitive proof.
I want to believe that kind of attitude is not the majority, it's just that they're noisy so they're more noticeable. I really do want to believe that. Most of the time, I find it difficult.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 10, 2018, 02:56:38 PM
Arlo, I did not say all of Wikipedia was useless. Like was stated, context is everything. Take something out of context and you can find whatever you want to support any thought you might have. Look at the flat Earthers for an extreme example.
Just because it has citations does not make it accurate. Context is king.
Valid citation makes the quote accurate. Context makes the fact or opinion known. Granted, opinions aren't necessarily facts. I'm finding that I'm required to offer cited counter-points in my papers. I'm not required to agree with them. :)
Wiki is open sourced, which seems to be the main (if not only) reason it isn't allowed to be a source, itself, for academic papers. Anyone can edit a page and the staff needed to check validity is limited. That's why I chase the sources, if I can. I've got a pretty good library on campus and some online databases at my disposal. But, as I said, sometimes Wiki helps me gather sources quicker that the database search engine. It is convenient. But then, that's why people online rely on it when they can't chase the sources cited (and that can be bad).
I fully intend to build a 'thousand book library', though (for the end of civilization/the internet). ;)
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Ciaphas on January 10, 2018, 02:57:17 PM
The only way you can tell bias is if it's in the title. For instance, if the title of a source reads 'Why Italian Bombers in WWII Were Inferior' and another reads 'Why Italian Bombers in WWII Were Superior' then the bias is obvious. Likely, though, you'll get 'Italian Bombers of WWII' and you'll have to read the material to see if there is bias (recognizing that your own bias may be part of the perception).
Or you do some research on the source. Meh, nothing should be taken at face value. Assuming that something is correct because it has been used as a citation could land egg on your face.
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Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 10, 2018, 03:00:26 PM
An acquaintance of ours has some... "controversial opinions" shall we say? It used to crack me up, you could show her all kinds of research on whatever she was on about, she'd point at the one site saying something different as definitive proof.
I want to believe that kind of attitude is not the majority, it's just that they're noisy so they're more noticeable. I really do want to believe that. Most of the time, I find it difficult.
Wiley.
Well, that's the crux. There's a difference in keeping an open mind and searching for knowledge and keeping one's mind closed and looking for support of a bias (we all have that tendency, from time to time, though - just human nature).
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 10, 2018, 03:02:19 PM
Or you do some research on the source. Meh, nothing should be taken at face value. Assuming that something is correct because it has been used as a citation could land egg on your face.
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Avoiding the egg is why I say the best research is to read the source. 'Research' on a source not read likely has it's own bias. :)
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Wiley on January 10, 2018, 03:04:09 PM
Well, that's the crux. There's a difference in keeping an open mind and searching for knowledge and keeping one's mind closed and looking for support of a bias (we all have that tendency, from time to time, though - just human nature).
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." has always resonated with me even though like you say, we all have that tendency.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Shuffler on January 10, 2018, 04:27:56 PM
Said in a thread online. ;) (J/K ... I think you're quite right.)
:rofl Don't think I did not take that into consideration when I posted. :aok
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Bizman on January 11, 2018, 01:53:25 AM
Our leading newspaper asked several university professors, the leading experts of their branch, to evaluate Wikipedia articles of their expertise. Only Finnish, if I recall correctly. The results weren't as bad as one could have suggested. They mostly criticized the lack of depth and neutrality, the facts being basically correct. That said, half a truth can work as a lie even more effectively than an alternative truth... A tool, as Arlo said. A tool that can lead to reliable sources for those who really want to know, a tool that can give a hint about what people are talking about. I've often used it for finding out who the people in the "N.N. passed away" threads here. American baseball stars aren't too famous here...
What concerns me more than Wikipedia is that people have moved from Google to Facebook to get information and answers. Finding a FB forum of like minded and asking for their advise can fortify any belief stronger than any algorithm based on previous history. Recently I read that here in Finland the vauva.fi ("baby.com", the BBS of a baby/mother magazine) has become a leading forum for all kinds of Q&A. The previous leader was suomi24.fi which started as a dating forum... Ask anything, you'll get answered anything!
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Skuzzy on January 11, 2018, 05:44:34 AM
True, Facebook is a far worse environment.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 11, 2018, 06:25:06 AM
For the most part, FB is a political nightmare full of trolls. Prior to my joining I never kept up with old highschool associates and friends. I'd have been blissfully ignorant of 38 years worth of formed bias.
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: icepac on January 12, 2018, 06:52:40 PM
Many good sources end with ".edu"
dtic.mil has accurate information
Title: Re: Has internet/google/facebook made people dumber/less informed?
Post by: Arlo on January 12, 2018, 07:13:04 PM