Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MickDono on January 23, 2018, 11:49:55 AM
-
Anybody got any advice for a first time buyer?
For a hunting rifle I’m torn between the steyr scout and the steyr pro hunter. I’m leaning toward the pro hunter purely because it’s cheaper. Any good alternatives?
For optics I was thinking about a Swarovski z3.
For a pistol I’m looking at either a glock17, sig legion or a cz. Eventually I’d like a FN .45 but it’s a bit pricey.
Any advice?
-
AK-47. So easy a caveman can do it.
-
I better question is what caliber? I have hunted all the North American game and my vote would be 7/08 then 300 win for longer shot bigger game.
Can't go wrong with SW scopes. I have two and both are amazing clear.
Pistols I would go with glock first then save up for a good 1911 or 2011.
More than likely if your new to hunting a shotgun is the most useful tool. Bird hunting is so much fun and much cheaper than big game. Look at a solid 12ga. I like older Remington 1100 gas guns. Can't go wrong and the older ones have beautiful wood stocks.
-
In my experience it’s much cheaper in the long run to buy the more expensive better guality gun rather than buying the cheaper one and putting expensive parts/scopes on it.
-
50/50 rule. Scope and rifle should cost the same.
I have a old 700 that would cost $400 used but I have a 2k scope on it. Its my father's gun so the 50/50 rule doesn't apply.
-
I have a CZ 75 D PCR and I absolutely love it. You cannot beat the trigger on any CZ, and I would definitely look into them.
Are you trying to use it to carry, or just for home defense and target shooting?
-
MickyD, can you own those handguns in the UK? Or are you living elsewhere?
For a hunting rifle, the Steyr Scout isn't optimal IMO. I've owned 2 of them, a 308 and a 223/556 variant. It's a Scout rifle, which you CAN hunt with, but it's set up for a long eye relief optic, which is again, a Scout type rifle idea, more ideal for quick standing snap shots, increasing speed, but giving away some accuracy as well as magnification. Plus they are very expensive now, I picked mine up when my business was the national distributor for them back in 2002 or so. I'd get a non-Scout type rifle if it's your first one and you plan on hunting with it, and mount a decent quality and power optic on it. Not only should the optic be of good quality, but so should the mounts/rings, don't cheap out there.
Handguns, personal pref, there are many good options. Decide which caliber is best for your purpose, and pick a type you feel comfortable handling, and fits your purpose. Some prefer striker fired, some DA/SA, some single action. Also, if you plan on shooting a lot, as in tens of thousands of rounds per year, consider a metal framed pistol over a polymer framed one, the Legion you mentioned will outlast the G17, even Glock's own documents only give it a 20k service life, while Sig gives the 226 line including the Legion over double that, and in my experience of seeing millions of rounds go through both types, it's relatively accurate. Most never shoot this much, and therefore if you are going to fall into that category, don't worry about it, a G17 or any other polymer/striker will outlast you most likely.
Try and find a range that rents a wide variety of types/calibers, and try them out, even if it's just dry fire, but try and put some rounds through them as well.
Lastly, don't forget training, even if you can't afford expensive courses, you can self train to a certain extent using videos and the net, and while not optimal it certainly beats just winging it. Learn the fundamentals of pistol shooting, preferably from an instructor, and go from there. Adhere to the 4 major safety rules, and again, have someone instruct you on this, as the margin of error can = your life or someone elses.
-
Anybody got any advice for a first time buyer?
For a hunting rifle I’m torn
...um...what are you planning to hunt...?
And where?
- oldman
-
The only fun kind of hunting is rabbit, squirrel, or pheasant. Everything else you just stand in a tree, hide in a blind, or sit on a cold jonboat and wait. Boring as can be.
Get a Remington 870 shotgun. It is pump action, can fire slugs as well as shot (get the 870 capable of 3.5" shells), and is inexpensive.
-
...um...what are you planning to hunt...?
And where?
- oldman
^ what he said.
Do you want a bush pig (a light rugged rifle that suits bush hunting) or something for the tops (mountain shooting, long range and normally a bit heavier)?
-
ive been hunting for 40 years and have had many rifles and pistols.....and now i just use a cz-550 light in 300 win mag with a european stock....for everything i hunt now,lol...deer...bear, turkey,coyote/wolf....same gun... what i like about it is its light, great caliber, detachable magazine, has a set trigger, i use a 4.5-14 zeiss scope and a i have a range finding pair of binoculars with an inclonometer built it.....and im good to go. for all that think deer hunting is boring.. try still hunting deer...
-
+1 for CZ rifles, I've been really impressed with them, we started carrying them around 2000, and I bought my first 17HMR rifle from out CZ distributor, a CZ 452 heavy barrel, and it IMO was the best of all 17 options at that time. I've only shot a couple center fire CZs, but they were all equally decent quality for the $.
I have a feeling MickyD isn't in the UK any longer, as the handguns he's asking about aren't legal there, in any way shape or form as a private citizen. Hopefully he posts back regarding where he's living and what he wants to hunt there. If you can have only one rifle, something in a 270ish or one of the newer 6mm-ish range calibers would be enough to take most game, and varmints as well, and be right in the middle in terms of performance/overkill IMO.
-
MickyD, can you own those handguns in the UK? Or are you living elsewhere?
For a hunting rifle, the Steyr Scout isn't optimal IMO. I've owned 2 of them, a 308 and a 223/556 variant. It's a Scout rifle, which you CAN hunt with, but it's set up for a long eye relief optic, which is again, a Scout type rifle idea, more ideal for quick standing snap shots, increasing speed, but giving away some accuracy as well as magnification. Plus they are very expensive now, I picked mine up when my business was the national distributor for them back in 2002 or so. I'd get a non-Scout type rifle if it's your first one and you plan on hunting with it, and mount a decent quality and power optic on it. Not only should the optic be of good quality, but so should the mounts/rings, don't cheap out there.
Handguns, personal pref, there are many good options. Decide which caliber is best for your purpose, and pick a type you feel comfortable handling, and fits your purpose. Some prefer striker fired, some DA/SA, some single action. Also, if you plan on shooting a lot, as in tens of thousands of rounds per year, consider a metal framed pistol over a polymer framed one, the Legion you mentioned will outlast the G17, even Glock's own documents only give it a 20k service life, while Sig gives the 226 line including the Legion over double that, and in my experience of seeing millions of rounds go through both types, it's relatively accurate. Most never shoot this much, and therefore if you are going to fall into that category, don't worry about it, a G17 or any other polymer/striker will outlast you most likely.
Try and find a range that rents a wide variety of types/calibers, and try them out, even if it's just dry fire, but try and put some rounds through them as well.
Lastly, don't forget training, even if you can't afford expensive courses, you can self train to a certain extent using videos and the net, and while not optimal it certainly beats just winging it. Learn the fundamentals of pistol shooting, preferably from an instructor, and go from there. Adhere to the 4 major safety rules, and again, have someone instruct you on this, as the margin of error can = your life or someone elses.
I appreciate the great advice there.
I'm now living in Alabama so i plan to hunt deer next season.
Regarding caliber, i have found that i am more accurate with 9mm - for some reason with the 1911's I've shot, I can't hit a thing!
I plan on trying some different .45 caliber handguns this coming weekend.
I have a CZ 75 D PCR and I absolutely love it. You cannot beat the trigger on any CZ, and I would definitely look into them.
Are you trying to use it to carry, or just for home defense and target shooting?
The pistol will be for home defense and target shooting. I don't plan on carrying yet.
-
You're in Alabama now, right?
Remington BDL .270. Great weapon, round, etc. Leopold scope. Its about 50-years old, just as deadly as first day it was fired. The caliber will, and has taken down everything in North America minus a Brown or Polar bear. Everything else, yep.
Pistol, plinking or concealed? I have owned a .357 but it's too big, way too loud. I used to have a 10mm, whatever. 9mm is pretty standard. For concealed I prefer a River. 22. I know, no knockdown at all. That's okay though. I'll out not only the first rough center of mass, but the following 9 rounds. Allows for excellent, rapid placement. Most of my friends like the 9mm or .45. I think they are overcompensating for... ya know... other, smaller things.
Boo
-
You're in Alabama now, right?
Remington BDL .270. Great weapon, round, etc. Leopold scope. Its about 50-years old, just as deadly as first day it was fired. The caliber will, and has taken down everything in North America minus a Brown or Polar bear. Everything else, yep.
Pistol, plinking or concealed? I have owned a .357 but it's too big, way too loud. I used to have a 10mm, whatever. 9mm is pretty standard. For concealed I prefer a River. 22. I know, no knockdown at all. That's okay though. I'll out not only the first rough center of mass, but the following 9 rounds. Allows for excellent, rapid placement. Most of my friends like the 9mm or .45. I think they are overcompensating for... ya know... other, smaller things.
Boo
:rofl
My thinking right now is that i'd rather have 15 9mm rounds over 7 .45 rounds..
That's why I think i would eventually like a double stacked .45 handgun.
-
I have shot many pigs with both 9mm and 45. The 45 wins every time. Real life 7-8 rounds will do the trick. Most times It's all over after 3 rounds. I have also run out of ammo with 30 rds but that was a epic flurry of 20-30 piglets. In Alabama your going after smaller game white tail included. Anything 7mm and under will work great.
In Texas some of the South texas ranches have a 30 caliber rule. They don't want to go looking for game in the thick brush.
Basically it come down to 9 or 45. I would first own a 9mm because of cost and shoot the snot out of it. Then buy a quality 45 after 25000 rounds of practice then practice more.
Skill doesn't come easy with a pistol.
-
Go to a gun range and try a few different handguns. I like the S&W .40 round, nice and short so the grip isn't huge, but it packs a lot more punch than 9mm without busting your wrist like the .45.
For a rifle, I STRONGLY suggest getting a simple traditional bolt action that isn't super heavy. Consider a synthetic stock and chambered for a traditional round (30.06, .270, whatever). Light enough to walk around with all day and quick to point. You're not going to be doing much 500 yard hunting so get something that's accurate enough out to 300 yards and learn to actually hunt.
Save you thousands doing it that way. Traditional rifles are cheaper, easier to maintain, and the ammo is cheaper. Plus reloading is easier and cheaper for popular ammunition.
Aiming for a "best" niche with a first hunting rifle is a great way to end up with an expensive toy you never use.
My favorite handgun is my beretta in .40. Same frame as the military 9mm I spent a lot of time training with, but with .40 impact. The heavy frame makes shooting the .40 extremely easy, and the gun is accurate, pretty durable, reliable, super easy to field strip and clean, and it's heavy enough to use a bludgeon if you run out of ammo in close quarters. Some people hate the single/double action of the beretta but once you train with it, it's second nature just like any other weapon.
That said... If cost was no object, I'd get whatever is in style with SOF nowadays. They've spent a lot of time thinking about it and I've found that I could trust my ex-SEAL instructors opinions more than the opinions of my ex-SWAT instructors. Too many swat guys are just "enthusiasts" who have a job that lets them play at their hobby at work. The SEALs... they lived it in hellish conditions day in day out and they value operational utility far more than trendy cool gadgets.
My last weapons training was with a SEAL instructor and he taught me the best way to survive a firefight armed with a USAF issue M-4 and M-9. He showed me the M-9's quirks and how to keep it reliable in battle, and that was good enough for me to be more confident with my .40 beretta too. I never did ask him his pistol of preference because regardless of his answer, I'd be taking the M-9 to war so it just never came up.
The point being, don't get enamoured with the "best" for a first weapon purchase. Half the opinions out there are from fanboys who wanna-be a bada$z and think getting all technical with the latest gadgets somehow makes them look as if they are just like the real bada$z folks out there. They'll talk hours/pages about the latest glock or expensive this or that, when what really matters is getting something that YOU shoot comfortably and can practice with enough to become truly competent with it. I've never done a quickdraw competition in my life, but put me and my crappy beretta up against most armchair enthusiasts carrying their latest and greatest SOCOM-branded plastic whatever, and I'm confident that even if I "lose" the other guy is gonna take home at least one .40 cal hole, center of mass, because I've trained to do that consistently with that weapon, with the first shot from a holster draw, every time. Not because the beretta is awesome, but because I've trained with it over and over and over, to the point where I"m very comfortable with my first shot placement even when I'm in a hurry. That doesn't take an expensive "great" gun, it takes range time, a whole lotta practice ammo, and a willingness to sort through the BS to learn what works for you and keep doing that.
Oh yea, having an olympic bronze medalist as my first shooting instructor didn't hurt, but there are great instructors almost everywhere. They're usually the most humble ones who don't brag about their gadgets.
-
Go to a gun range and try a few different handguns. I like the S&W .40 round, nice and short so the grip isn't huge, but it packs a lot more punch than 9mm without busting your wrist like the .45.
For a rifle, I STRONGLY suggest getting a simple traditional bolt action that isn't super heavy. Consider a synthetic stock and chambered for a traditional round (30.06, .270, whatever). Light enough to walk around with all day and quick to point. You're not going to be doing much 500 yard hunting so get something that's accurate enough out to 300 yards and learn to actually hunt.
Save you thousands doing it that way. Traditional rifles are cheaper, easier to maintain, and the ammo is cheaper. Plus reloading is easier and cheaper for popular ammunition.
Aiming for a "best" niche with a first hunting rifle is a great way to end up with an expensive toy you never use.
My favorite handgun is my beretta in .40. Same frame as the military 9mm I spent a lot of time training with, but with .40 impact. The heavy frame makes shooting the .40 extremely easy, and the gun is accurate, pretty durable, reliable, super easy to field strip and clean, and it's heavy enough to use a bludgeon if you run out of ammo in close quarters. Some people hate the single/double action of the beretta but once you train with it, it's second nature just like any other weapon.
That said... If cost was no object, I'd get whatever is in style with SOF nowadays. They've spent a lot of time thinking about it and I've found that I could trust my ex-SEAL instructors opinions more than the opinions of my ex-SWAT instructors. Too many swat guys are just "enthusiasts" who have a job that lets them play at their hobby at work. The SEALs... they lived it in hellish conditions day in day out and they value operational utility far more than trendy cool gadgets.
My last weapons training was with a SEAL instructor and he taught me the best way to survive a firefight armed with a USAF issue M-4 and M-9. He showed me the M-9's quirks and how to keep it reliable in battle, and that was good enough for me to be more confident with my .40 beretta too. I never did ask him his pistol of preference because regardless of his answer, I'd be taking the M-9 to war so it just never came up.
The point being, don't get enamoured with the "best" for a first weapon purchase. Half the opinions out there are from fanboys who wanna-be a bada$z and think getting all technical with the latest gadgets somehow makes them look as if they are just like the real bada$z folks out there. They'll talk hours/pages about the latest glock or expensive this or that, when what really matters is getting something that YOU shoot comfortably and can practice with enough to become truly competent with it. I've never done a quickdraw competition in my life, but put me and my crappy beretta up against most armchair enthusiasts carrying their latest and greatest SOCOM-branded plastic whatever, and I'm confident that even if I "lose" the other guy is gonna take home at least one .40 cal hole, center of mass, because I've trained to do that consistently with that weapon, with the first shot from a holster draw, every time. Not because the beretta is awesome, but because I've trained with it over and over and over, to the point where I"m very comfortable with my first shot placement even when I'm in a hurry. That doesn't take an expensive "great" gun, it takes range time, a whole lotta practice ammo, and a willingness to sort through the BS to learn what works for you and keep doing that.
Oh yea, having an olympic bronze medalist as my first shooting instructor didn't hurt, but there are great instructors almost everywhere. They're usually the most humble ones who don't brag about their gadgets.
Nice post.
Thanks.
:cheers:
-
If you're serious about having firearms for home defense, don't just stop at the firearms. Ensure you have a well thought out defensive plan, as well as other gear - body armor is very cheap, even buy surplus if you have to, and store it near/with your firearms. Keep at least one good flashlight with your kit (most encounters in home defense will be in low light), and train how to use it with your weapons. Also keep a backup cell phone with this gear, even a phone not on a plan will connect to 911, so throw an old cell phone or 2 that are charged into that kit bag as backup emergency comms. Lastly, but most importantly, have a first aid kit designed for gunshot and edged weapon trauma, and take some training on how to employ it - 2 tourniquets, quick clot/bandages, suture kit, relief valve/needle, gloves, scissors, etc etc. Should you be involved in a shooting even in your own home or on your property, L/E will often want to secure it before letting EMS in frequently, and if you or any friendlies are wounded, it could be down to you to treat wounds until they have access, and some simple gear can make a huge difference in life expectancy.
Consider how you're going to store your firearms in your home, if you are going to leave them loaded for self defense, I highly recommend getting a fast-action safe to store them in, something with either biometric or electronic combination locks. This is for not just safety reasons, but liability ones as well. Lots of cheap, fast, solid options here, you can mount small units to your bedframe for handguns, or bolt them pretty much anywhere, and standing/rifle vaults are easy to find as well.
Sounds like you want a double stack 9mm, so I'd go with your instinct and gut and move in that direction. There is a phone book of options in that department, just try a bunch out to see what fits your hand and has the ergonomics and features you want. The Legion you mentioned or any of that line is something that will last you a long time, and fit the bill, but will be heavier for future carry due to the metal frame. I'm biased having worked for Sig Sauer for a long time, and there are other good options out there as well.
Regarding training, since you're just starting out, get yourself some good fundamental training from a solid instructor, there are lots of options in your area, just do some background research into them so you don't get some yahoo. There are many solid schools out there, when I first instructed at mine (Sig Sauer Academy), there were really only a dozen or two circa the early 2000s, now there are hundreds of professional instructors and schools. Again, you should focus on learning the fundamentals of safe and accurate pistol shooting (and rifle if you're getting one for hunting), before getting to worried about getting spun up on more advanced handgun/CQB skills.
-
Anybody got any advice for a first time buyer?
If it's possible, try out as many guns as you can. Buy whichever one you like, fits the purpose, and fits you, then learn to shoot it well.
Don't get caught up in caliber arguments or brand loyalty wars. Most firearms made in the last decade or so have all been pretty good. In fact the only real lemon I can think of in recent memory was the Remington R51. There have been a couple recent safety recalls by both Sig (P320) and Springfield (XDs) but they got them fixed, the R51 is the only real stinker I can remember recently in the pistol world.
For a handgun (assuming your talking non-revolvers since you mentioned 9mm or .45acp) anything by CZ, Glock, Sig, Springfield, FN, Kahr, Walther, Colt, and countless other makers are all good (even Hi-Points are super reliable, if not the prettiest things) You just need to decide... Do you want a striker or hammer? external safety? full size, compact or sub-compact? Polymer or metal? DA only or SA/DA? etc... then try everything you can that fits the bill. There are no wrong answers, just personnel preference.
Same goes for a rifle, except you caliber options are much greater with rifles.
I wouldn't worry too much about a "first" purchase, since it will likely just be the "first" of many.
-
Go to a gun range and try a few different handguns. I like the S&W .40 round, nice and short so the grip isn't huge, but it packs a lot more punch than 9mm without busting your wrist like the .45.
Funny you should say that...
Having shot .40 and .45 in the same gun a couple times (in full size XDm and M&P) I much prefer the recoil of the .45, I think the higher speed of the .40 makes it more "snappy" whereas the .45 is like a slower push. My choices in semi-auto centerfire handguns are all 9mm, .45acp or 10mm.
Besides, the gun has as much to do with felt recoil as the cartridge. (slide weight, spring weight, browning action vs fixed barrel, etc) For an extreme example a .45acp big ported/compensated race gun will shoot like a dream with minimal recoil all day with no pain, while a Ruger LCP shooting a tiny little .380 kicks bad enough I'm done after 5 rounds and my wrist hurts.
I would have told the OP that the .40 is silly (insert .40 Short and Wimpy FBI joke here) and stick with 9mm or .45. Just goes to show how much it's a personal preference, we can tell him what WE like, but we have no way of knowing what HE will like, different strokes for different folks and all that.
To the OP, if you find a handgun gun you like and it's available in different calibers you should definitely shoot a few mags of each before picking a caliber.
-
If it is the first gun in the house, then makes sure gun safety for all household members, and secured storage is in your plans.
Two of the last three years, at the gun show, people have shot themselves.
-
For a hunting rifle I just picked up a Thompson Center Compass with a scope in .30-06 caliber for $225 new after rebate. I've fired it a few times and it seems to shoot well. For a handgun I suggest going to a gun shop and feeling different makes and models. I have 7 different pistols and my Glock 27 is by far my favorite shooter. You can't go wrong with a Glock.
-
lmao a Brit with a southern accent :rofl
-
As others have already stated, go to a gun shop with a range that lets you test fire multiple handguns. As to 9mm vs 45 I prefer the 9 more because of economy than anything else. The ammo is cheaper and more readily available which equates to more practice, better skill in use and accuracy. If you already are more accurate with the 9 then you already have your answer. The latest 9mm defense ammo will rival the performance of the latest 45 defense ammo. I would use neither one for hunting, instead relying on a rifle for more accuracy and far better ammo for the job.
As to the rifle, what you are hunting has a lot to do with what you get. Forget the AR platform for hunting as the caliber issue will limit your options for game. Many states still outlaw a 22 caliber for big game hunting. I would agree that a decent bolt action is the best option. Any of the big manufacturers have multiple styles of bolt actions available. Stay with a "hunting" weight style, no bull barrels. Plan on spending a medium amount of money. Buying the bargain basement rifle can work but the mid level is often the better buy.
Scopes are a what you pay is what you get kind of thing up to a point. Most folks can hunt with a basic good quality 4 power scope for their entire life and be very very productive hunters. Stay away from the walmart tasco options and figure on spending at least a couple hundred for a mid level hunting scope. Keep in mind you do NOT need extra large turrets, mil spec ranging dots or windage aim points for typical hunting. Almost all hunters go to the range, sight in the rifle for their range, say 200 yards and know that they can hit the vital zone of a deer from 50 yards to about 250 with the same point of hold, depending on caliber / cartridge. That will work for the 30-06 / 308 / 270 / 243 but not something like the 45-70. If you can fit your shot inside a paper plate at all those ranges you have a "minute of deer" rifle capable fop taking your game.
Varmint hunting is a whole other critter and I suggest you wait until you have some range time and hunting experience before going that route.
Savage has a well deserved reputation for accuracy. Not the most pleasing to the eye for aesthetics but damn good shooters. Remington has a good rep for accuracy and a long history. I have little experience with Winchester as they were usually higher cost and they suffered from the post 67 change in design for many years. They are now producing good stuff but may be pricier.
Caliber depends on what you are hunting. The bargain basement guns usually have a 30-06 and that will handle anything in the lower 48. A 308 will be a shorter action and also handle lower 48 game but have more ammo availability and be cheaper. Nothing wrong with a .270 or .243 if you are staying at deer sized game.
-
Some great info in this thread. I appreciate it!
:cheers:
-
My personal opinion, for a one rifle hunter in North America, I'd look hard at a .308. Very manageable recoil and report, and viable for everything from coyotes to moose. That coupled with widely varying and available ammo makes it extremely attractive.
I'll also second Maverick's Savage comment. My family's owned several, and they're all good to great shooters.
Wiley.
-
Micky the thin end is where the bullet comes out :old:
-
I appreciate the great advice there.
I'm now living in Alabama so i plan to hunt deer next season.
Regarding caliber, i have found that i am more accurate with 9mm - for some reason with the 1911's I've shot, I can't hit a thing!
I plan on trying some different .45 caliber handguns this coming weekend.
The pistol will be for home defense and target shooting. I don't plan on carrying yet.
COYS! You aren't an Alabama football fan now right?
-
COYS! You aren't an Alabama football fan now right?
We can only hope not....
-
We can only hope not....
AMEN!!!!In full disclosure...TN VOL here lol :neener: DAM elephant looking sobs!
-
COYS! You aren't an Alabama football fan now right?
Hope not.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alabama-fan-receives-3-years-for-auburn-tree-poisoning/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alabama-fan-receives-3-years-for-auburn-tree-poisoning/)
-
Anybody got any advice for a first time buyer?
I add this link. Hard to argue with any of these choices. The problem is funding the purchases.
https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2018/1/12/10-guns-every-hunter-should-own/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=0118
- oldman
-
COYS! You aren't an Alabama football fan now right?
Roll MotherFlippin Tide !
-
Roll MotherFlippin Tide !
From "you never walk alone" to "roll tide."
Well COYS! and Woo Pig Souieee
-
I'm an advocate of 6mm Remington, unless you're hunting some seriously big game.
It'll start getting a bit questionable for things like moose or really damn big Wapiti, but will carry you reliably, and faithfully up to that point.
-
I prefer my 30/30 and my SpringField XD 9
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I'm an advocate of 6mm Remington, unless you're hunting some seriously big game.
It'll start getting a bit questionable for things like moose or really damn big Wapiti, but will carry you reliably, and faithfully up to that point.
I prefer the 243. I use a Howa and am good on a 2" square target out to about 360 yards (Nikon 3-9 scope).
Though lately I picked up a Ruger American Ranch in 300BLK, while it's not the laser the 243 is it still does a great job (and is much lighter). I notice the 300BLK penetrates more and does less shock damage to the meat.
-
What about a Remington 700 series in .308?
Or....why not a vintage? I see real appeal in owning an old Mauser, like a Kar98,
Or start cheap and play around with a Mosin Nagant before making a new purchase?
edit: This is not expert advise, I'm pretty new to firearms as well. But these are what I've been looking at as a newer gun buyer. I started with an Ar15, then a Mossberg 500, next is a larger caliber rifle and those are what I've been considering.
-
Grandad's old K98 is the bug out rifle. But like most military bolt actions, they're not terribly precise unless you can find one of the ludicrously rare and expensive sniper rifles with matching serial numbers on the parts.
But 4 MOA is about what you can expect from simple mechanical accuracy, which is within the accuracy capabilities of an average shooter, but will be limiting to the more experienced.
And 308 is a solidly unremarkable, usable all-purpose cartridge. There's better choices for varmints or big game, but 300 Win Mag for coyote is like killing a fly with a sledgehammer. And 220 Swift is arguably a bit light for deer.
But out of an appropriate rifle with a well-zeroed sight, it will cleanly take game such as elk, moose, and bear, without excessive recoil or rifle weight.
-
I prefer the 243. I use a Howa and am good on a 2" square target out to about 360 yards (Nikon 3-9 scope).
Though lately I picked up a Ruger American Ranch in 300BLK, while it's not the laser the 243 is it still does a great job (and is much lighter). I notice the 300BLK penetrates more and does less shock damage to the meat.
I am with you on this one! .243win ...first 2 rifles were chambered for it. Dad bought me a Remington Model 7 the year they came out with them, and has served me and both of my kids well! I got a Ruger #1 in .243 later..had too...dang son was using MINE :x
-
First 3 I bought:
Rem 700 in .30-06
Rem 870 3.5"
S&W M&P .45
In hindsight I wish I went w/ a 3" 870 because more barrel varieties are avalable. I had turkey slaying on the brain when I bought the super mag.
-
First 3 I bought:
Rem 700 in .30-06
Rem 870 3.5"
S&W M&P .45
In hindsight I wish I went w/ a 3" 870 because more barrel varieties are avalable. I had turkey slaying on the brain when I bought the super mag.
I got the Mossberg 835 3 1/2(turkey buster) IT will KILL,...shoulders, sapplings, cheek bones and Turkeys! Was wonderfull on a Dove shoot as well! My other gun was having issues so broke out the Big Girl. Yes, with turkey choke, was killing them into next county! I was accused of uglying em down,lol. Took it to SD for Pheasant, it worked out nicely. Not many snuck out wide. The dogs got poed at me I think...too far to retrieve :x
-
That's another thing, MickyD, IMO you should add a shotgun to your home defense plans, due to the very low cost to high performance payoff. In a crisis event on your property, you'll be better served with a shoulder supported weapon every time over a handgun - the lethality is much higher, and the accuracy and controllability, particularly when under stress conditions, is far better as well. A shotgun/rifle is an offensive tool, a handgun mostly a defensive weapon. Don't take a pistol to a fight for your life, unless it's a secondary/transition weapon, or your only option. Don't make it your only or best option, that's what a $300 ish Moosberg, Remington/etc pump shotgun is great for. This is of course if you don't plan on getting a magazine fed 556 or 762 rifle of some kind, which has even better effects and qualities than a shotgun does in this sort of fight, overall at least.
-
My first 3 ( since selling all mine to finance college in the 80’s ):
Glock 20 10mm
M&P Shield 9mm
PSA AR 5.56mm
Need a shotty next. Had very fond memories of my Ithaca Model 37, so I may look for one.
g
-
Elon Musk's solution :lol
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/01/elon-musk-is-selling-a-boring-company-flamethrower-because-why-not/ (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/01/elon-musk-is-selling-a-boring-company-flamethrower-because-why-not/)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2324/8823/products/Boring_Company_Flamethrower_2048x2048.png?v=1517088963)
-
:rofl :rofl
I went hunting for the first time this weekend and got to use a Steyr Pro hunter - which is awesome! I found the trigger to be really nice.
I did not shoot at anything other than paper though (I seen lots of animals - bobcats/coyotes/lots of small bucks and doe's)
I am going again this weekend and will get to try a Remington 308.
Will have some meat to show for it too hopefully!
:cheers:
-
:aok Seeing and watching is best part! When you get one, the WORK starts :neener: Good Luck,Sir! :rock
-
Hunting is one activity where I do not feel it was a waste if I come home empty handed. If I saw various critters and had the opportunity to be out in the field I still had a good time. Getting my game is a bonus.
-
Hunting is one activity where I do not feel it was a waste if I come home empty handed. If I saw various critters and had the opportunity to be out in the field I still had a good time. Getting my game is a bonus.
This year I didn't shoot a deer and hunted hard. I shot a elk early in the season and had plenty of meat. Its 50/50 every weekend if I even fire a shot during the hunting season. Some days I am ok with just sitting looking at deer. If I feel the need to kill I can always go and take care of the coon problem we have at the feeders.
I even had a pack of coyote all around me and didn't shoot one. It was puzzling to me that they had no idea I was 10 yards from them so I just let them pass.
New hunters are blood hungry and most of the time will pull the trigger on the first thing that pops out. Give them a green light some guys will fill up the back of the truck full.
It's a'ok not to pull the trigger.
I like good looking firearms because most of their life you only look at them for what they are. Handling a work of art knowing some gunsmith spent days carving and making something that is passed down generations is just cool.
-
Handling a work of art knowing some gunsmith spent days carving and making something that is passed down generations is just cool.
<S> fellow dinosaur. When I go into a gun store these days, it's very difficult to spot a rifle that has a wooden stock.
- oldman
-
Funny how as you get older the old guns have more interest. Lately a Winchester pump 22 (1906) has been a fascination of mine. It hearkens me back to the days when an Uncle tossed a beat up rusty ranch rifle in 22lr (the Winchester) and told me to go get some rabbits for the ranch dogs. Later on I did some coyote thinning for him after they started stealing his chickens. That's where I learned to hunt. Spent many days when we visited his ranch, prowling the desert (southern AZ) by myself enjoying the outdoors.
-
Funny how as you get older the old guns have more interest. Lately a Winchester pump 22 (1906) has been a fascination of mine. It hearkens me back to the days when an Uncle tossed a beat up rusty ranch rifle in 22lr (the Winchester) and told me to go get some rabbits for the ranch dogs. Later on I did some coyote thinning for him after they started stealing his chickens. That's where I learned to hunt. Spent many days when we visited his ranch, prowling the desert (southern AZ) by myself enjoying the outdoors.
One of the first rifles I ever shot! Was .22 short Win pump. Gallery Special, I believe? Hex barrel even...a work of art, with a long history! Will have to unwrap it and get it out to check. I have 3 of these. 1 from each side of the family, and 1 for parts...well decided not to part it out. The rifle from Fathers side of tree, was a HOG gun(in days where they would start at the head of the creek and work up all the neighbors Hogs all the way down the creek. Somewhere, they wore the ejectors out and used a push rod to eject the cases. Needless to say that NOW, I believe you could shoot around a 80 degree angle from the bore! :rolleyes: The last inch and a half of muzzle has been worn free of riffling. Its heirloom, so I left it as is. Still a beauty to look at though, it was well cared for....well to a point :uhoh Not a speck of rust...just smooth bore now :aok No desert though, my back yard was West Virginia hill country along Ohio river, and Foothills of Smokey Mountains in Tennessee :rock Could stay in the woods to hearts content, as long as you showed up on time for dinner :old: Felt like Boone or Crockett,exploring the frontier!
-
For a deer rifle as long as you aren’t planning on shooting super long range, 400 plus yards, stick with a low recoil gun. It’s not worth beating your shoulder to death for a 150 pound whitetail.
I have hunted north central West Virginia my entire life. I use a Winchester model 70 in .30-06 with a 3x12 scope and can kill anything I’m every going to target here. Decent recoil for the knockdown power. My favorite gun is still my old Glenfield .30-30. Never lost a deer with that gun. My 14 year old daughter now carries it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Can't go wrong with a Glock as your first pistol. I would recommend the 19, or the 19X (19 slide on 17 frame), because it leaves more room for your next to be a gen 5 34 MOS =) That and 9mm is dirt cheap.
-
Funny how as you get older the old guns have more interest. Lately a Winchester pump 22 (1906) has been a fascination of mine. It hearkens me back to the days when an Uncle tossed a beat up rusty ranch rifle in 22lr (the Winchester) and told me to go get some rabbits for the ranch dogs. Later on I did some coyote thinning for him after they started stealing his chickens. That's where I learned to hunt. Spent many days when we visited his ranch, prowling the desert (southern AZ) by myself enjoying the outdoors.
I learned to hunt on my dads Browning 22 Pump (trombone) when I was young (12ish). He used to go salmon or trout fishing and I'd go kill bunnies, often across farms. It has his fathers and now it has been handed on to me. It has the a beautiful smooth action, I've dated it to the mid-50's.
-
A Rossi Slide/Pump action .22 was one of my first loves too. It was a copy of the Winchester 62, and worked pretty well for the cost at the time. I often wonder if it was our fathers who thought a semi auto was just a bit too aggressive for us at that age, accounting for the obvious popularity of the slide/pump rimfire rifle in this thread and others...that was the case for me. I wanted a semi SO badly, but my father outright forbid it until I had a year of solid and safe rimfire rifling under my belt. He relented a bit after 3 months of safe and productive daily bolt action .22 shooting, and got me the Rossi. I was instantly in love, and didn't get my first Browning semi .22 until much later than he promised, due to not really caring any more. Such a great little rifle, my nephew has it now, and has a similar affinity for it that I had, and has ample rabbits, gophers, and other varmints on his property to take care of.
-
I wanted a semi SO badly, but my father outright forbid it until I had a year of solid and safe rimfire rifling under my belt.
Wise father. I had comparable experience. My first gun was a Colt I-22. When I Google it, I find it's now called the "Colteer." How embarrassing.
http://www.nramuseum.com/guns/the-galleries/for-the-fun-of-it/case-45-plinkers/colt-colteer-1-22-single-shot-rifle.aspx
The thing is a tack-driver, though. Trigger pull has enough creep to make you think you're holding Harvey Weinstein, but it's the only .22 rimfire rifle I've ever had. Paid $21.00 for it in 1965, at Webber Hardware in Dover-Foxcroft, Maine.
- oldman
-
MickyD, since we got off track into the .22 rifles, that's something I would recommend you buy as well - get a good .22 rifle, either a good bolt action, pump, or semi, as it's a great rifle to learn shooting skills with cheaply, and has a ton of utility to it as well. Cost is low too to feed it ammunition.
A great page about .22 shooting feats of the past - Ed Toepperwein used an 03 Winchester semi over 100 years ago to hit 72491 targets out of 72500, he only missed nine, 3" wooden cubes tossed in the air by hand. Incredible.
http://showmanshooter.com/html/body_toepperwein.html
-
My Marlin 30/30 is ‘ol reliable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
That's another thing, MickyD, IMO you should add a shotgun to your home defense plans, due to the very low cost to high performance payoff. In a crisis event on your property, you'll be better served with a shoulder supported weapon every time over a handgun - the lethality is much higher, and the accuracy and controllability, particularly when under stress conditions, is far better as well. A shotgun/rifle is an offensive tool, a handgun mostly a defensive weapon. Don't take a pistol to a fight for your life, unless it's a secondary/transition weapon, or your only option. Don't make it your only or best option, that's what a $300 ish Moosberg, Remington/etc pump shotgun is great for. This is of course if you don't plan on getting a magazine fed 556 or 762 rifle of some kind, which has even better effects and qualities than a shotgun does in this sort of fight, overall at least.
This Mossberg Maverick 88 cost under $250 as configured... Outstanding home defense shotgun on a budget.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4729/38305304745_69a58d81ae_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21mUGyH)
About $275 for this H&R 870 clone... Excellent shotgun. Hogue furniture is terrific. Soft shooting.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4725/27404384039_43e5c06b00_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HKCCBZ)
At left is a Mossberg 500 Tactical (8 shot), about $400 as shown. I added the side saddle and the sling, otherwise it is as made by Mossberg.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4540/38688438561_f7e90f6c6e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21WLmUa)
-
Any of those would suffice as a great first - and lifetime - shotgun. While I have Winchester and Remington 20" and shorter shotguns, I've preferred Mossberg as well for a long time. I run 14" 590s primarily, give up capacity but gain a bit in the ability to move through structures especially in low light - I realize 14" shoulder supported weapons are a bit of a PITA in the USA, and it's really not a major difference going to a longer one for me. Having the Mossy speed stock and a side saddle = 15 rounds on the gun, which isn't terrible for a 14 inch shotgun. The safety position on the 88 is a button on the trigger guard compared to the tang mounted slider on the 590s, that's the only pref I have and in the grand scheme doesn't make a lot of difference overall.
I wasn't impressed with the 590 at first due to the extra time it takes to break down and reassemble over the other options, but I got used to it, and they've been great, I've run my first 14" now for over 16 years. I've had an 88 6 shooter since 2005, you can't beat them for the money.
-
Elon Musk's solution :lol
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/01/elon-musk-is-selling-a-boring-company-flamethrower-because-why-not/ (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/01/elon-musk-is-selling-a-boring-company-flamethrower-because-why-not/)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2324/8823/products/Boring_Company_Flamethrower_2048x2048.png?v=1517088963)
Quite a stretch to call that a flame thrower, In fact it's pretty much a blatant lie. That's just a $29.99 (retail, I bet Boring Co. gets them much cheaper) propane weed burner stuck in a molded plastic frame... and with that little tank the burn time is gonna be very, very short. Myself and everyone I know always used them with 20lb tanks.
https://www.harborfreight.com/propane-torch-with-push-button-igniter-91037.html
Gotta hand it to Musk, he good at marketing, for $500 the profit margin is gonna be HUGE! I bet it cost them less then $50 to make those.
-
I keep a Mossberg 500 18 1/2 inch with pistol grip in my truck. Backup for my 45 in my truck.
-
MickDono....I don't know if you found something but depending on where you are in Alabama and what you want to shoot in the hunting rifle category I have several and would be glad to meet up at a range one weekend to help you make a decision. Can bring the FNX-9 with me as well since it is a 17+1 double stack and I love it. Feel free to shoot me a message about it anytime.