Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: haggerty on January 29, 2018, 05:19:56 AM
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P-63 Kingcobra. Used extensively in the war, can carry 1,500lb ordnance. They aren't overpowered but would probably see good usage with its unique payload. 37mm + 3x500lb bombs would see alot of action over contested vehicle zones. Would make for an interesting bomber interceptor as well, with what appears to be much better high altitude performance over the P-39 models.
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There is no official records of any combat service during the war..
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Correct in that it never saw service in the USAAF.
The USSR used the P-63 extensively, and there are official records of it fighting the IJA up to 15 August 1945. (Gordon, Yefim. Soviet Air Power in World War 2. Hinckley, Lancashire, UK: Midland, Ian Allan Publishing, 2008. ISBN 978-1-85780-304-4.) There are no official records of it used on the Eastern front, however the USSR is not able to confirm the fact that they cannot account for the loss of aircraft (over 1000) yet they were not 'used' against the German army. German pilots (who were detailed oriented in their pilot logs) have recorded kills of Soviet P-63's late war. (Hans Ulrich Rudel, "Stuka Pilot", p. 170 ; Black House Ltd, 2012)
It is thought that the Soviet lack of recorded use was political rather than factual to have the USSR aircraft shown in the numbers of downed German planes instead of American Lease-Lend planes. I mean, how do you lose half of your aircraft in two years if you're not flying them against an enemy....?
Food for thought.
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There is no official records of any combat service during the war..
It served primarily in the ground attack role during the Soviet offensive against Japan during the last couple of weeks of the war.
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Seems like someone posted a couple of years ago that the P-63 was used much more than the P47M. Not sure though.
+1 on the wish.
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It served primarily in the ground attack role during the Soviet offensive against Japan during the last couple of weeks of the war.
There was an extensive discussion of the P-63's operational use with the USSR a couple of years back...can't remember who the proponent was then, but he came up with some Russian records that he thought supported the notion that the Bolsheviks used P-63s a lot. Turns out that when you read the records, they didn't. The P-63 had handling qualities that they didn't like, and the unit that was supposed to make them operational had a lot of trouble, and took a lot of time, doing so. I don't recall much about their use in the Far East, that particular discussion was whether they were used in the West.
And Fork, dude, you should know better than to trust anything Rudel said.
- oldman
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And Fork, dude, you should know better than to trust anything Rudel said.
- oldman
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.... and that's recent info that came out that Rudel was as reliable and trustworthy as a used toilet brush salesman.
So we can confirm that there was limited use for the P-63 on the western front with the IJA/IJN forces?
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Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.... and that's recent info that came out that Rudel was as reliable and trustworthy as a used toilet brush salesman.
So we can confirm that there was limited use for the P-63 on the western front with the IJA/IJN forces?
You'd have to hunt down the thread. My recollection is that there were no P-63 combat operations in the west.
- oldman
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Wishes aren't granted anymore. :(
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The Kingcobra also fought against the Germans but was listed as a P-39 in official records. German pilots reported fighting them. Russian pilots reported flying them. This is in contradistinction to the P-39.
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Wishes aren't granted anymore. :(
Someone didn't get his/her bean snapped!
:confused:
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The Kingcobra also fought against the Germans but was listed as a P-39 in official records. German pilots reported fighting them. Russian pilots reported flying them.
Sources, please.
- oldman
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Sources, please.
- oldman
Red Stars Vol 4 - Lend-lease aircraft in USSR (Geust):
6 GIAK:
- 273 IAD: 67 GIAP (ex 436 IAP, Six P-63s*, March 1945)
PVO:
- 28 IAP (Moscow, spring 1945)
*Used in the assault on Berlin
Hans Rudel, like him or not, supports Russian P-63 use against the Luftwaffe in STUKA PILOT.
Other Russian firsthand accounts by pilots state they flew P-63s alongside the P-39 against Germany. You’ll have to dig those up for yourself, though.
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Pokryshkin's pilot reports in his memoir have never been confirmed and is considered suspect as are the German accounts. While it is not unreasonable that the Soviets did fly some P-63's in the ETO, there are no official reports to verify that it happened.
As the P-63 and P-39 look very similar it is not out of the realm of possibility that the Germans would mistakenly identify the P-39 for a P-63.
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I never cited Pokryshkin. Supposedly, one of his pilots wrote a book claiming conversion to P-63s in 1944 (used against Germany), however.
The Soviets hid a lot of their doings... “Secret” use of P-63s against Germany seems highly likely, and Geust claims it as fact.
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Russians used Them. 416mph at 20,000 feet.
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I think the fact I read, and it may have been in Birch Matthew's book was the production run numbers. IIRC production units were not produced by Bell until Nov 1944. Then due to the rate and flow, including Ferrying, squadrons were't converted until April of 1945. the was over a month later.
So it's possible they saw some eastern front action, but that is neither here nor there. They did participate in the attack on Japan and HiTech has acknowledged that they qualify by his rules.
So maybe if we all want it bad enough it will move up the list. :salute
I think the real problem for HiTech with this plane may be the lack of real performance data on it. There is data for the P-63A Prototypes that were evaluated by the army, but none of that data is with Water injection. The base engine was listed as 1325 HP, which is only 15 more than the P-39Q. The Water injected engine supposedly made 1800 HP but there is no real test data showing the plane's measured performance with water injection. But the bulk of the production A-10 version, and the later C model all had water injection. Even Birch Matthews couldn't find any measured performance data on the water injected P-63. That's troubling.
So who would HTC model it? on the test data, or correlate the performance on the prototype plane then add 500 HP? I think that would be the biggest challenge.
That said I'd take the 1325 HP version for the extra wing area 25% more wing. And it was a lower drag wing as well. so it should be a better climbing, better turning P-39 with an extra 28 rounds of 37mm.
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There was an extensive discussion of the P-63's operational use with the USSR a couple of years back...can't remember who the proponent was then, but he came up with some Russian records that he thought supported the notion that the Bolsheviks used P-63s a lot. Turns out that when you read the records, they didn't. The P-63 had handling qualities that they didn't like, and the unit that was supposed to make them operational had a lot of trouble, and took a lot of time, doing so. I don't recall much about their use in the Far East, that particular discussion was whether they were used in the West.
This thread: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=352698.450
And good lord, it was our own Vraciu.
- oldman
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This thread: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=352698.450
And good lord, it was our own Vraciu.
- oldman
I was much more easily fired up in my youth. :old:
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You'd have to hunt down the thread. My recollection is that there were no P-63 combat operations in the west.
- oldman
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,309472.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,309472.0.html)
This the one?
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This the one?
Heh. Not the one I was thinking of (see three posts above), but clearly adding the P-63 has always been controversial.
- oldman