Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Chilli on February 07, 2018, 02:32:03 PM
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There has been a departure from "some" fun aspects in the game, in favor of "some" more challenging aspects of the game.
In short, resupplying towns at current rate does nothing to promote air combat. Add to that the incredible difficulty in spotting M3s long enough to be able to track its position for a realistic strafing run, I am back to re-arranging my sock drawer to improve entertainment value.
I just wish that portion of the "game" would be nudged in favor of the lonely fighter wishing to experience more air conflict.
The shiny ground objects with wheels or sometimes tracks, would be much better serve the active roll of combat if they were needed to cut off troop advance from C47s or M3s, rather than deliver time warp magical dust from Merlin the Wizard.
(Well, at least it sounded nicer in my head).
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:)
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Dead horse :bhead
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There has been a departure from "some" fun aspects in the game, in favor of "some" more challenging aspects of the game.
In short, resupplying towns at current rate does nothing to promote air combat. Add to that the incredible difficulty in spotting M3s long enough to be able to track its position for a realistic strafing run, I am back to re-arranging my sock drawer to improve entertainment value.
I just wish that portion of the "game" would be nudged in favor of the lonely fighter wishing to experience more air conflict.
The shiny ground objects with wheels or sometimes tracks, would be much better serve the active roll of combat if they were needed to cut off troop advance from C47s or M3s, rather than deliver time warp magical dust from Merlin the Wizard.
(Well, at least it sounded nicer in my head).
Be careful what you wish for.
When HT tested neutering m3s for a month, there was a great deal of unhappiness. Several people threatened to cancel their subscriptions if turned out to be permanent.
Then HT instituted the GV dar. Many players teetering on the edge of unsubscription fell into the abyss.
It is changes like this--trying to make players play the way you'd like rather than the way that they like--that has cost HT a substantial # of long term subscribers.
If HT is trying to transition his game into a far more fighter-oriented endeavor, then that's his call. But things like what you are hinting at will further erode the long term player base, thus lowering player numbers even more (and making it even harder for people to find a fight).
Is that really what you want?
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Base capture and resupply give add extra dimensions to the game, and give us the opportunity to apply tactics and strategy. Instead of complaining about this tactic, come up with a tactic to counter it.
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Instead of spamming M-3's to resup a town before troops get to the map room, maybe you should actually mount a defense or counter attack.
Resupply does not add anything worthwhile when the intent of the game is combat.
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Base capture and resupply give add extra dimensions to the game, and give us the opportunity to apply tactics and strategy. Instead of complaining about this tactic, come up with a tactic to counter it.
resupply is just another one of those corner cutting tactics that "gamers" these days have over used. Its just another way to AVOID combat in "the best WW2 and WW1 combat experience online!" game.
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OR it's a viable tactic used to stop one side from taking another's bases. There's no problem at all with resupply.
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OR it's a viable tactic used to stop one side from taking another's bases. There's no problem at all with resupply.
Ditto. Trying to force anyone to play their $14.95 your way isn’t going to bode well. There are constantly players whining about others not playing the way they want or complaining about no one posting missions. Pretty much a matter of put up or shut up.
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Instead of spamming M-3's to resup a town before troops get to the map room, maybe you should actually mount a defense or counter attack.
Resupply does not add anything worthwhile when the intent of the game is combat.
mean while m3's 251's c-47's running troops until the base is won-running M3's to resupp town/base is base defense-M3's carry a .050 cal machine. I have shot down planes our M3's and some wirbels and have been oiled and shot down by M3's-don't say using M3's is not combat. people who want to dump M3's just a 1 sided battle to take a field as easily as they can...players who come in to attack a field have alt and speed advantage on the base they are attacking. seems to me they too lazy to watch spawn for M3's.
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Ditto. Trying to force anyone to play their $14.95 your way isn’t going to bode well. There are constantly players whining about others not playing the way they want or complaining about no one posting missions. Pretty much a matter of put up or shut up.
It's not a matter of telling people how to play the game, it's a suggestion for HTC to change the games META by either nerfing resupply or buffing the defense of it.
OR it's a viable tactic used to stop one side from taking another's bases. There's no problem at all with resupply.
No doubt it's a viable tactic in the current game...but there's for sure a problem if people go right to M3s before even thinking about countering an enemy with a realistic combat counter...The counter to a fighter hitting a base shouldn't be an M3, it should be a whirb or fighter interceptor... The counter to a Bomber heading to a strat isn't waiting for the bomber to drop bombs in a M3, it should be a fighter intercept.
Picking up what I've been putting down?? Probably not because it's the same tired arguments that it's a whine to make people play the way they want to play...combat simulator ain't fun when there's no combat
mean while m3's 251's c-47's running troops until the base is won-running M3's to resupp town/base is base defense-M3's carry a .050 cal machine. I have shot down planes our M3's and some wirbels and have been oiled and shot down by M3's-don't say using M3's is not combat. people who want to dump M3's just a 1 sided battle to take a field as easily as they can...players who come in to attack a field have alt and speed advantage on the base they are attacking. seems to me they too lazy to watch spawn for M3's.
Oh they have alt and speed advantage in an attack??? Fly from a different field...heck most CV fights if they aren't won in the initial 10-20 minutes of the first plane upping from the CV then the CV is getting vulched...a plane carrying ords vs a light plane upping to defend, which one will have the alt and speed advantage???....your argument is a direct reaction from M3 resupply, less people up for a base defense in a timely matter when they can easily just resupply a town.
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Time to crawl back to the other combat games I play where the game forces people to engage in combat or you lose....
Oh wait we do have that here, it's called Special Events and a lot of you still try to avoid it in there :rofl :rofl :rofl
No pancake mix in this bar @waystin2
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You cannot be all things to all men
HTC is trying to be just that and it creates exactly the discord we see now. What is ACES HIGH to you?
For me it is an air combat game. I love to fly a fighter and engage in combat with other fighters. I do not want to worry about land grabs or strategic goals and I certainly do not give a crap who wins the map.
Others feel differently. I was told tonight that 'we do not need your kind' because I was fighting the biggest dar bar instead of looking at the tactical view and defending a base. It does not matter if you prefer to play as a fighter, buff, GV or if you perfer to furball, take bases, protect bases, supply, sneak.....whatever.
I am with the OP. When the air war dries up I am out. I simply have no desire for the GV side, and that includes hunting GVs in a plane, it just annoys me.
All of us have different needs / desires from the game. Mine is air to air combat. Bombing targets and moving dirt bores me to the point that I just log off when the air combat is not there.
I do not hate on the guys with different needs and I ask the same respect in return.
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See Rule #4
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Like someone stated, everyone want to change the game in their favor.
If you walk down the lane in wishlist forum you can see many things that do just that:
Wirbelwind with no tracers, Bombers that can be used as a triple death-star's on the runway.. etc etc...
What does promote combat, GV vs GV, anti-aircraft vs aircraft, aircraft vs aircraft... main gun vs aircraft ?
My personal view :
If you want to present some sort of realism the main gun vs aircraft must be much harder to accomplish.
No one without any death wish will go one vs one vs a hidden Wirbelwind, when you spot it, you are already dead.
This has become the best way of defending a base, why try to up a plane when a Wirbelwind can do the same feat without even been seen before he press the trigger, vs an aircraft with type @ 6k range icon.
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Yesterday evening Euro TZ we had big map for about 75 players in total, the front line extended to ~15 bases, many in GV's.
My squad with 3 online pilots made one successful attempt to get some flying action.
After the red pilots got shot down, after a good fight - Wirbelwinds replaced the fighters, much owing to the fact that when a pilot see flying action it turn attracts other fighter pilots to join in.
The red planes got simply outnumbered -fully understandably they did take off when their world are full of high potential vulchers.
Often it is a bit too long between the bases to support the field you want to defend.
The above scenario could best be mitigated by support fighter fields (1-3) depending on the map - connected to the main field- not defended by acks, not too far away from the main field- but far enough to give the defenders a chance to take off and get some altitude and defend the airfield.
If the FH get destroyed - no uppers are allowed from either main field or the support fighter fields.
A solution to the Wirbelwind dilemma, denying GV the range to a flying target would make them a bit less effective than they are now.
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coppr sorry but jumping in an M3 and magically popping a bunch of buildings that someone or group took the time to prep is not the hard way it is the EASY way out.
I find it very un-realistic in a base capture/defence sense and off hours it has a much bigger impact than prime time. We went from the one decent fight on the map to complete stagnation. I cant clone myself so any base attacks rely heavily on having zero opposition to be successful and when thats the case we might aswell go play offline by ourselves.
Prime time might be different and it may work as HTC intended to help mini hordes from sweeping fields. I dont have any perfect solutions but any sane person can see that M3 resupply is killing the game! :D
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Bruv, if you think that nerfing M3s will save the game you're mistaken. When they get nerfed and bases just keep getting rolled, EVEN IN OFF HOURS, do you think that will improve player numbers?
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I just left the MA, and, as usual, Knights were outnumbered, and the Rooks were upping at one base after another depending on which one was being defended. You want M3s nerfed so you can just roll in on outnumbered teams and take bases. Now THAT'S REAL COMPETITION. I stopped playing at night because almost every time I go in, Bishops have more players than Knights and Rooks combined, or Bishops and Rooks are ignoring each other and teaming on Knights. To me, this push to change resupply isn't about fighting, it's about NOT fighting. It's about "I want bases for free". If so, go into the AvA where there is no one there and take all the bases unopposed that you desire...
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HTC could also counter the need for resup and help slow down captures of undefended fields by changing the AAA efficiency on those fields that do not have defenders.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I just left the MA, and, as usual, Knights were outnumbered, and the Rooks were upping at one base after another depending on which one was being defended. You want M3s nerfed so you can just roll in on outnumbered teams and take bases. Now THAT'S REAL COMPETITION. I stopped playing at night because almost every time I go in, Bishops have more players than Knights and Rooks combined, or Bishops and Rooks are ignoring each other and teaming on Knights. To me, this push to change resupply isn't about fighting, it's about NOT fighting. It's about "I want bases for free". If so, go into the AvA where there is no one there and take all the bases unopposed that you desire...
Sorry I was comparing gameplay pre m3 resupply to what it is now and noting that IMO it is worse.
You logout off peak and let the bish take all the nitland. Agreed that is preferable to running around in an m3 trying to resupply everything.
Now if Myself and one or two others (id be lucky) decide to counter or take some fields away from the double numbered Bish side we dont stand a chance because with their ENY the 1st thing they do to defend from us is roll supplies and we have very little chance to make any strategic wins from a losing situation.
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I'm tired of these ridiculous CONTINUOUS attempts to tell us how to play the game. YOU play the way YOU want, but STOP telling ME how to play MY GAME. M-3s are fine, anyone saying otherwise is no more than a whining pansy who only wants things the easy way. Play the game.
Stealth M3s vs getting in a Fighter and you complain about the easy way? #Irony
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Keep the GVs', take away spawn points. You want a GV battle do it the old fashioned way. Travel to it. Make a GV battle. Set up ambushes and attacks, plan them.
Just a thought.....we don't have airspawns in the MA and glad we don't. And sometimes scenarios have airspawns ARGHHHHHHHHHH. Make it somewhat realistic and ditch the spawns in the air and on the ground. Not trying to say play it my way. Do as you wish. This game has lost more history Junkies then anything else. The result is a dumb downed first person shooter in some instances.
There are probably a multitude of reasons why numbers have declined. They've declined substantially since I've been in the game and see no evidence that it will increase.
The generations of players who participated in this game have changed. That's why Scenarios are lucky to get 70 participants. Generational change. A lot more baby boomers used to play this game whose parents participated in WWII. It was something that we as baby boomers heard a lot about from our parents, uncles etc. So we wished to participate in a more realistic manner. Our children
(mine are in their forties btw) knew their grandparents and heard the true stories from that war. So when we saw a WWII MMOG with air combat we came in droves (AW, and here).
So in essence imho the game is now a first person shooter. There used to be mass bombing missions with escorts in the past. Fun! Generated a great fight in the air with a modicum of realism.
That has disappeared to a great degree. Now it's chiefly flash and dazzle that is required, something that doesn't take to much thought and time to do. Scenarios could be very good but since participation is low they've turned into Snap Shots during a 12 hour battle or 4 Saturdays. Pity. There used to be 150 to 250 participating and the CMs are handcuffed with design because of the low turnout. Either way you look at it this game needs more participation. How that comes about I don't know. All I know since I've been here 18 years that many have left for various reasons. The ones that have left have not been replaced. Some have come back for short periods such as Thunder and cited game play. And they also left again. Game is fine. The participants have changed and their view of how to play the game hasn't attracted much if any at all. I took a break of about 6 months I believe and came back when AH3 went Beta. It was fun. When it went full nothing changed but an improvement in Graphics. Game play the same. It's everyone's 15 dollars and they should play as they wish. Once getting here we have to keep players. Great aircraft flight modeling doesn't do it neither do the graphics. Is the game more difficult for new players? Is there to much time to be invested to be somewhat good at it? Is their a lack of patience to the new players who want arcade type games? Lot's to be considered. I'm just giving you my point of view. The game is fine. It's the participants who actually identify the game and make the game.
Something to think about as I don't have an answer. But what I do know what is happening at the current time is not working. The tools we are given are basically the same that we had in 1999-2000.
There have been great additions in aircraft and GVs. This subject has been discussed Ad-Nausea. Change is needed an it' ain't with the graphics or maps. Hell we flew over the same map day after day after day in AW and we still played and came in great number. So someone tell me where the fault is? No finger pointing. We shouldn't point fingers at differing ways to play the game. What's the problem? <shrugz> I don't want to hear the same responses we've had in this post and the many previous posts on this subject because evidently we've all been wrong or the community is stuck in this cycle. What do we need to do as a Community to attract more participants that we can effect change for the good and attract more participants. It's not the Game, it's us.
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If country #'s were close to even, the argument to defuse M3 town resupply would be valid & welcome. Log in as a Rook any morning or early afternoon (EST) and you're going to find 2x the number of Bish. 90% of them will be rolling bases...usually hitting Rooks first and Knights second.
Tell me please, how do you rally a fighter defense (which does happen) when the odds are 3:1 or worse? How do you mount a defense when the horde nuked the FH's...or are getting vulched on the RW? Perhaps adding manned guns in town while limiting the # of buildings able to be resupplied might strike a reasonable balance?
The game is supposed to be about fun. Getting steamrolled and having base after base pulled out from under is more about aggravation and frustration than it is fun.
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What about Interdiction as a game tactic?
Barracks are pretty soft targets; taking out the barracks at the fields with spawns into the field you're trying to take precludes the enemy from being able to resupply the town. Theoretically, I think it could also disperse the action from "everybody at one field" into smaller actions at the feeder fields in addition to the action at the main point of attack. It just takes a little more planning and coordination to capture a field now. We may yet learn to modify our game play to account for this. I have hope! For me anyway, it adds a bit more realism and depth to a game about conquering territory.
Personally, I'd like to see field supply delivery removed from the 50mph M3 - I think using it for troops, mobile artillery, or vehicle supplies is multi-role enough. I'd rather see this vehicle added as a driveable 30-40 mph vehicle, whose dedicated role is town/field supply:
(https://i.imgur.com/6gJzaST.jpg)
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Keep the GVs', take away spawn points. You want a GV battle do it the old fashioned way. Travel to it.
Taking away the spawn points from maps would simply kill off the whole Gv portion of the game.
Who's going to travel 2 hours through mountainous terrain just to get a bomb on his head?
What do we need to do as a Community to attract more participants that we can effect change for the good and attract more participants. It's not the Game, it's us.
If the customer doesn't like to buy your product, it's not the customers fault.
Any solution that depends on "All the players have to change their ways" is going to fail, because that's not how life works. If it were actually the players actions which would hurt the game, gameplay mechanisms would have to be put in place to counter it.
It's the game. It's that simple. "It was good enough for us back in the day" would kill any business over time. When gaming environments (yes, this is a game and always has been), customer expectations, public relation strategies or whatever are changing over the decades, so has to do a game. It's just the 'how' & 'what' which is the difficult problem ;)
AH is now almost 20 years on the market (and it's lineage tracing back much longer). In this business this is a terrific long time. :old:
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There has been a departure from "some" fun aspects in the game, in favor of "some" more challenging aspects of the game.
In short, resupplying towns at current rate does nothing to promote air combat. Add to that the incredible difficulty in spotting M3s long enough to be able to track its position for a realistic strafing run, I am back to re-arranging my sock drawer to improve entertainment value.
I just wish that portion of the "game" would be nudged in favor of the lonely fighter wishing to experience more air conflict.
The shiny ground objects with wheels or sometimes tracks, would be much better serve the active roll of combat if they were needed to cut off troop advance from C47s or M3s, rather than deliver time warp magical dust from Merlin the Wizard.
(Well, at least it sounded nicer in my head).
I think the GV's have been beaten down enough......... just live with it
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Except with the the Wirbys...
They defend a base against aerial attacks much more effective than a plane can, and will not be seen from that plane until the plane are shot down.
I think the GV's have been beaten down enough......... just live with it
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Oboe,
I like that rationale using barracks, except for the one thing that has eluded most in this thread, the balance. How many attackers will be used to 1) knock out all the barracks / vehicle hangars that spawn to target field, 2) knock out all town ack, 3) knock down town buildings and prep white flag, 4) maintain air defense / protect troop arrival from air or hidden ground defenders, and most importantly 5) do all the above in a time constraint.
Now, following Oboe's very correct observation, this all would need to have been preceded by bombing runs on Country Strats.
Note: All of these things the attackers are doing are promoting COMBAT! M3 resupply is just a TOOL. Most probably the reason why one particular country is known to gain superior numbers and roll bases, while "flicking" away any possible loss of bases without dimenishing their attack force. (Funny how the thing you desire to save you, ends up eating your lunch). :salute
(https://i.imgur.com/6gJzaST.jpg)
Yes, the Opel would be an acceptable replacement tool. It even fits in with the convoy system that was lost with the latest version.
Copprhed,
Sorry I haven't been around much lately so that you may properly release your venom (Bf110 fang style) into twisting bloodied wreckage. Geez, I never knew you had such affinity for anything as toothless as the M3.
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If you impose time restrictions on the average tank longer than about 7 minutes to transit you will loose those players and a percentage also fly planes. Hitech made a statement about spawns, that they are an equivalent to getting a tank into combat at the same rate a fighter gets there in our not so arbitrary sector of 25 miles. You can quibble over that due to simply wanting Hitech to wave his magic keyboard and take away whatever is bothering you. Still, the time factor in the MA is a fixed feature and the point of the MA is bringing customers together sooner than later to create activity. Even WT does this with it's minuscule arenas and imposed side balancing for matches.
Complicated schedules applied to game functions will not make the MA more interesting to play in other than for people seeking complication. Hitech did a test, I think inadvertently, where he found when he complicated a feature becasue that was being asked for, players stopped using it. Complexity and nuance does not equate to fun for the majority of customers in this kind of game. If it did, IL2 would be jammed with players, and WT would have lines waiting to get into the realism match arenas.
This game has survived this long by not being nuanced and complex other than the requirements of learning and polishing skills to become good at it. When changes have been introduced by Hitech, they stay inside of that frame work which really does make the game easy to play, just complicated to be very good quickly. I have wondered if that is the real learning hurdle for the new generation of gamers with our game. They get offended that they can't just fire it up and be a master of their game controller asap. Many of the negative reviews at Steam seemed more like the person was offended the game took effort even though it looked so old school and simple.
Think much less complicated when you spitball changes to the MA functions. You might have a better chance of catching Hitech's attention. Like I've chosen to explore the limitations of the terrain editor to see if more can be accomplished with it to help evolve the game. Seems it just requires some effort to get good at it first while spending the time learning how to design terrains to help players want to create activity.
I know, it's easier to type and yell at Hitech to wave his magic keyboard.....
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People have forgotten how to pork fields. 1 or 2 guys porking fields around the field you are attacking and doing it during the initial attack and guess what? no ord, no resupply.
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Sorry I was comparing gameplay pre m3 resupply to what it is now and noting that IMO it is worse.
You logout off peak and let the bish take all the nitland. Agreed that is preferable to running around in an m3 trying to resupply everything.
Now if Myself and one or two others (id be lucky) decide to counter or take some fields away from the double numbered Bish side we dont stand a chance because with their ENY the 1st thing they do to defend from us is roll supplies and we have very little chance to make any strategic wins from a losing situation.
First, Bruv, I hope you know I have do grief with you. You are a pillar of the community, and I have known you since you ventured into Fighter Ace, years ago. Bish regularly outnumber everyone else, and they are typically the ones in here griping about ENY. IMHO more needs to be done during peak hours to FORCE player to even the teams. M3s resupping bases is no problem, and it is not the cause of players not flying. I fly if I feel like it, I tank if I feel like it, and no YAYHOO complainer is going to make me change. They may make me leave, and then what are they gonna do? They will be happy, because there's no one left.
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See Rule #4
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I remember the days that folks fought for bases.. there was 600+ online.
Guess guys got sick of blowing up town buildings and shooting ants in the grass. Im about there.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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How this has become anything close to Tin Can Head versus Hi Alt Fighter Dweeb, is hilarious :x
Plain and simple, bring back the convoys (I jest, this is not a simple task in any terms; although one could wish it was). At least then we could shoot at the AI time warp rebuilders.
Side note: No one will ever convince me they would pay to play AH3 so they will have the opportunity to drive M3s to town to resupply. Yet, I dare say the majority of the current and future subscribers do so, with the intention of experiencing online air combat.
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Pay my subscription and an hourly wage, and I will play the game the way you want me to play.
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I remember the days that folks fought for bases.. there was 600+ online.
Guess guys got sick of blowing up town buildings and shooting ants in the grass. Im about there.
I got the impression long ago Hitech dosen't care about 15-17 year vets like us because we don't represent the general customer demographic. We are anachronisms very often stuck in memories of the glorious past. And by this time, you know well enough that saying something indirectly negative in an open forum only hurts new people's perception of Hitech and his game. Unless you are angry at Hitech for not doing what you think he should have done over all of these years.
I suppose we all know if he leaves the mic hot and allows us on his stage, he has to suck it up and take whatever we want to spill at him. And darned if it ain't cathartic to vent when you know you got a freebe and you don't care anymore. Who cares after all this time right?? He's shown no interest in listening to you and you have only had his best interests at heart for over a decade. Kind of sounds like divorce court. Judge I want this divorce because he didn't care about me and do anything I wanted all these years. He only thought about himself and never listened to my ideas....
This is what the old vets in this forum are sounding like lately.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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Yeah, you got style. Just not mine, hehe. :bolt:
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Yeah, you got style. Just not mine, hehe. :bolt:
Heheheh! :neener:
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Side note: No one will ever convince me they would pay to play AH3 so they will have the opportunity to drive M3s to town to resupply. Yet, I dare say the majority of the current and future subscribers do so, with the intention of experiencing online air combat.
I e-mailed AH and indicated I would quit the game if the m3 neutering experiment several months ago turned out to be permanent....NOT because I got thrills and chills driving an m3, or because I got a perverse sort of pleasure defending a base in a subtle way, but because it is an essential base defense ingredient when your team is outnumbered at the point of attack.
The point I'm making is that I did not "pay to play" so that I could drive an m3, but that I would NOT "pay to play" if that aspect of the game were removed. That's a big difference. Think about it.
As for your "majority" comment...the game appeals to different people for different reasons. A lot of the long term players play big picture vs furball picture. The furball people want others to play their way, and that's simply going to drive even more players to AH3 alternatives if the game is tweaked to force them into play modes they don't enjoy.
Again, think about it.
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I can see the M3 supply working for low numbered times of play. With 8-10 players on a team total it's tough to defend "traditional" ways like knocking out supplies at surrounding bases or capping a field.
However with better numbers, like more than 100 players in the arena I see the M3 resupply as hurting the game far more than it helps.
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I e-mailed AH and indicated I would quit the game if the m3 neutering experiment several months ago turned out to be permanent....NOT because I got thrills and chills driving an m3, or because I got a perverse sort of pleasure defending a base in a subtle way, but because it is an essential base defense ingredient when your team is outnumbered at the point of attack.
The point I'm making is that I did not "pay to play" so that I could drive an m3, but that I would NOT "pay to play" if that aspect of the game were removed. That's a big difference. Think about it.
As for your "majority" comment...the game appeals to different people for different reasons. A lot of the long term players play big picture vs furball picture. The furball people want others to play their way, and that's simply going to drive even more players to AH3 alternatives if the game is tweaked to force them into play modes they don't enjoy.
Again, think about it.
How tacky.
You don't like the game then quit. Who are you, trying to press HiTech into changing the game for yourself?
Coogan
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"Now there's something you don't see every day, Edgar."
"What's that, Chauncey?"
"Aces High veterans callin' each other names and threatnin' to quit because of halftracks."
"What's so strange about...Halftracks? Did you say halftracks?"
"Halftracks. They been arguing about it for months. Maybe a year."
"Makes no sense to me, Edgar. You'd think they'd be more intrest'd in tryin' to kill each other."
"Yep. Well, it's been a strange place ever since the moose left town."
"Sure has. Wonder if they'll ever get over it?"
- oldman
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First, Bruv You are a pillar of the community
He is?
:rofl
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You don't like the game then quit. Who are you, trying to press HiTech into changing the game for yourself?
Coogan
1) I did quit.
2) Haven't you read the threads on this BB lately? Half the people here are trying to "press" HiTech to change the game into something they'd like better. The "nerf the m3" crowd and the 6k GV icons and all that. Why do you have issues with me making my opinions known but are fine with them making theirs?
So, who am I? I guess I'm an ex-paying customer who is still hoping the game will shift back in a direction in which I'd be willing to pay to play again.
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1) I still play.
2) I think if GV or Planes are your thing, you should be continue to do that, giving everyone a fair chance.
3) To be able to kill another GV/Plane without that player to have any chance is not a fair (read Wirby vs Planes 6k icons)
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Why do you have issues with me making my opinions known but are fine with them making theirs?
I don't think he just has issues just with you trying to change the game into something it's not.
The game ain't broken. It's the people who keep complaining over and over and over and over and over and over...
There are to many negative players in this communitie. Instead of just keeping your mouth and enjoy the game for what it is. To many choose to cause grief and act like poison which sucks the fun right out of the game from the people that just want to have a good time.
Personally I tried to ignore all of this. But it its getting out of hand. Just let me give you some advice.. and this is goes for everyone. Stop trashing the game and enjoy the ride. At this rate people will leave.
So don't be like Mike and be the first post on FB under the announcement trains are back with whines about numbers. It does not help. It only puts AH in a bad daylight.
So if you all really love this game like I do. Will you please shut up.
Thank you.
DutchVII
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1) I did quit.
2) Haven't you read the threads on this BB lately? Half the people here are trying to "press" HiTech to change the game into something they'd like better. The "nerf the m3" crowd and the 6k GV icons and all that. Why do you have issues with me making my opinions known but are fine with them making theirs?
So, who am I? I guess I'm an ex-paying customer who is still hoping the game will shift back in a direction in which I'd be willing to pay to play again.
Even when during the M3 experiment the M3 could still resupply bases, it just couldnt carry troops. And the experiment is over, what else needs to change for you to play again?
Myself I was all up in arms because of bomb and bailers, HT made an increase to proxy range and its largely fixed the issue, people are more likely to defend their bombers if they know you are going to get a kill when they bail. Previously they'd wait until you were 2.5k away and bail with no proxies given.
As far as GV dar, I dont think its a huge deal, vehicles are loud and bases would know their general area, its just a representation of military intelligence. Its not like its pin pointing where you are, I can still hide from planes with a single tree and engine off, and if I take out ords before I attack I end up just getting 20 kills from people trying to strafe me.
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1) I still play.
2) I think if GV or Planes are your thing, you should be continue to do that, giving everyone a fair chance.
3) To be able to kill another GV/Plane without that player to have any chance is not a fair (read Wirby vs Planes 6k icons)
Its not like wirbles can hit planes at 6k. A plane is much more visible than a vehicle in real life as well. I make it a point to bomb wirbles every chance I get, I have no issues finding them and trying to find them 200ft off the deck is not the right way to do it. Wirbles really stand no chance against me and I feel sorry for anyone that ups one in defense.
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I don't think he just has issues just with you trying to change the game into something it's not.
The game ain't broken. It's the people who keep complaining over and over and over and over and over and over...
There are to many negative players in this communitie. Instead of just keeping your mouth and enjoy the game for what it is. To many choose to cause grief and act like poison which sucks the fun right out of the game from the people that just want to have a good time.
Personally I tried to ignore all of this. But it its getting out of hand. Just let me give you some advice.. and this is goes for everyone. Stop trashing the game and enjoy the ride. At this rate people will leave.
So don't be like Mike and be the first post on FB under the announcement trains are back with whines about numbers. It does not help. It only puts AH in a bad daylight.
So if you all really love this game like I do. Will you please shut up.
Thank you.
DutchVII
Well said, Dutch.
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Whatever happened to the day that you had to bring supplies to concrete for them to take? That would probably fix alot of the whines about town resupplying. If a team is actively trying to take a base, they should see an M3 trying to sneak into the town. As it stands they can up a town from a mile away in any direction.
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I don't think he just has issues just with you trying to change the game into something it's not.
The game ain't broken. It's the people who keep complaining over and over and over and over and over and over...
There are to many negative players in this communitie. Instead of just keeping your mouth and enjoy the game for what it is. To many choose to cause grief and act like poison which sucks the fun right out of the game from the people that just want to have a good time.
Personally I tried to ignore all of this. But it its getting out of hand. Just let me give you some advice.. and this is goes for everyone. Stop trashing the game and enjoy the ride. At this rate people will leave.
So don't be like Mike and be the first post on FB under the announcement trains are back with whines about numbers. It does not help. It only puts AH in a bad daylight.
So if you all really love this game like I do. Will you please shut up.
Thank you.
DutchVII
Well said Dutch I agree 1000% :aok
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One of the best solutions I heard recently was to make the fronts smaller. I think this would help a lot for all types of combat.
Statistics prove that most people in AH enjoy the fighter air combat more than anything else. I definitely think there should be more of a focus on how to bring back the big fights. Smaller fronts is a great start. During the off hours especially. IMO resupps should only be allowed the with the C47 from a back field. This would make it a little more challenging, and it wouldn't defeat the purpose of being a bomber.
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Statistics prove that most people in AH enjoy the fighter air combat more than anything else.
Please, show us these stats.
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Wow! I haven't seen a bigger load of collective bovine scatology in a very long time.
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It's solved by marketing. McDonald's is one of the largest food corporations in the world, still spends hundreds of millions reminding people.
Boo
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Please, show us these stats.
Yes, PLEASE show us those miraculous stats...I, for one, enjoy most of the aspects of the game, but I would say air and GV are equal for me now. It really depends on whats needed. I even enjoy running sups or troops as needed, especially if it means keeping one of the whiners from getting a base.
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A customer who has a bad experience with a product will tell people as quickly as they can about their bad experience even if the product is good but the perception of it is personal. If they have a good experience, they tell very few people because nothing triggers them and part of why companies have to advertise. A small number of unhappy customers can make themselves drown out the good from existing customers becasue new customers don't know and are easily swayed by negative information.
The small number of vets who are taking advantage of these forums and beyond to share as much negative information as they can know they are and what the results will be. They don't care becasue it is a form of passive aggressive revenge. They didn't get theirs so they want revenge and icing on the cake is the additional spoiling of the experience for everyone else.
They know they are targeting the rest of us along with the revenge they want on Hitech. They don't care and it's just another single finger salute for them to get some kind of a personal victory.
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Bustr that makes sense. My OP was describing my recent experience, that left a very bad taste in my mouth.
The very "tasty" cream of my experience with Aces High has been the interaction with folks that I have met along the way, like yourself.
So, when I am enjoying my morning coffee (with or without any toddy) and am able to chat up enough folks (about 5 or one quarter of the amount of countrymen logged in at that time) to scratch out an orchestrated plan, I am 100% satisfied with enjoying a superior product, with other like minded folks. To see all their progress undone with a flick of a switch, just explodes a virtual stink bomb.
This feature is way out of touch with promoting combat. Remove it and defenders would need to do what they always had been pretty good at doing before, zipping over to the town and killing at least one troop, or mount their own attack force and TAKE THE FRIGGEN TOWN BACK.
I have no doubt, I will keep my subscription until my computer disintegrates and I will be in and out, on occasion, to "enjoy" the company of some really good folks.
HTC staff have done a great job with their product. I can only hope that they have better plans with this in the future. :cheers:
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I hate GV's, I hate M3's resupplying towns instead of fighting for them but, I build micro terrains on all of my MA terrains specifically for GV's becasue those players are paying customers that Hitech is providing a service to just like his air combat customers. This game is not an air combat only game and driving those customers out will close Hitech's doors.
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Bustr,
I for one am extremely grateful for the work that you and HTC have done bringing in new terrains and updates. The topic at hand was one update too far in the wrong direction (again).
It is an argument that I have been presenting since AH2 large towns (100% destroyed for capture). Town / base capture has become WAY TOO MUCH OF A CHORE. Every update affecting town capture has moved this more and more in favor of defense against capture. The only movement in the other direction, that I can ever recall, was when town destruction % was reduced from 100%. Even then, it was later tweaked to a higher %. Having larger bomber payloads and better equipment doesn't count.
It really does not surprise me one bit, that one country has an overwhelming majority in map resets. The next highest number, probably goes to the 7 day rule or server reset.
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(https://i.imgur.com/qFSFoDA.png)
- 'Played hours' means time spend in sortie by the total arena population, regardless of being directly involved in any actual capture attempt.
- Of course, only recorded base captures have been counted (no drop & ditch/bail)
- The lower the population, the more doable is the sneak - grabbing a base while nobody is looking. The old EW arena stats were attesting to this. More & longer battles for bases push the h/capture upwards.
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(https://i.imgur.com/qFSFoDA.png)
- 'Played hours' means time spend in sortie by the total arena population, regardless of being directly involved in any actual capture attempt.
- Of course, only recorded base captures have been counted (no drop & ditch/bail)
- The lower the population, the more doable is the sneak - grabbing a base while nobody is looking. The old EW arena stats were attesting to this. More & longer battles for bases push the h/capture upwards.
Can you pull up the numbers from 2010 and 2011 for these metrics? I'd like to see how they were affected when the Storch and short GV icons cam into being in tour 145.
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Can you pull up the numbers from 2010 and 2011 for these metrics? I'd like to see how they were affected when the Storch and short GV icons cam into being in tour 145.
(https://i.imgur.com/eeluaXp.png)
Some events during this time:
135 Change of the GV control system
144 Fi-156 and new icon range rules
151 Strat system overhaul (town resupply was boosted by this)
200 AH3 went 'live'
Early 2014 Central Strats dissolved
211 Steam release
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Instead of thinking of supplies as "magic" think of them as a load of engineers instead of a load of troops. For each load there's more workers and the time to rebuild is decreased.
It seems to me it was more fun when the towns and fields were smaller/simpler. It didn't take a horde to capture a base therefor the combat was more spread out. Aligned with that, as the bases grew there were more bunkers, ack, etc. disbursed further throughout the fields. I used to go to GV bases and kill the troop/supply bunkers to stop GV's from resupplying nearby bases. Who does that anymore? Evidently no one based on the complaints about M3 resupply. I stopped doing it when it became too hard to accomplish.
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Instead of thinking of supplies as "magic" think of them as a load of engineers instead of a load of troops. For each load there's more workers and the time to rebuild is decreased.
It seems to me it was more fun when the towns and fields were smaller/simpler. It didn't take a horde to capture a base therefor the combat was more spread out. Aligned with that, as the bases grew there were more bunkers, ack, etc. disbursed further throughout the fields. I used to go to GV bases and kill the troop/supply bunkers to stop GV's from resupplying nearby bases. Who does that anymore? Evidently no one based on the complaints about M3 resupply. I stopped doing it when it became too hard to accomplish.
Kinda how I saw the strat system when they were all lumped together. I quit running my 17's after that.
Coogan
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(https://i.imgur.com/eeluaXp.png)
Some events during this time:
135 Change of the GV control system
144 Fi-156 and new icon range rules
151 Strat system overhaul (town resupply was boosted by this)
200 AH3 went 'live'
Early 2014 Central Strats dissolved
211 Steam release
While some tour-to-tour numbers seem to be affected by these changes, the overall trends seem to have already been motion regardless. Even in months where no game-changing mechanics changed, you can see some wild fluctuations. The largest change seems to be related to the move away from centralized strats.
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Please, show us these stats.
I'm pretty sure Lusche has posted them before.
Air combat is probably 85% of the reason why people A. Found this game. B. Subscribed. It was HTC best selling point. I'm not trying to take anything away from tanking. I just think HTCs best advantage is the air combat. Infact when most air combat people leave the game, and many have, it just makes the fights smaller. The next solution is smaller fronts for more dense fights. This will create the perception that there is a big fight even if there aren't as many players. It will bring all the fighting types, and will avoid "rolling bases" phenomenon.
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As noted by Lusche, the *base "sneak" during low populated server times, seems to be a motivator in base capture.
So, although this is useful information in terms of map rotation, I am NOT certain that it accurately portrays any rise in *COMBAT EFFORT. It could simply be shadowing the decline in population and increase in opportunities for stealth.
Also, it would be particularly interesting to see the breakdown of numbers into countries and server time.
So, to clarify my previous statement, I should have been more specific in articulating the grievance. Capturing bases (or not) was not meant to be the target of discussion, rather the defensive response.
I believe that if you roll my bases up on one front, I should be able to roll your bases up on another front and somewhere between we should most likely meet. Stopping my base roll without ever lifting a combat response should not be the answer.
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I am NOT certain that it accurately portrays any rise in *COMBAT EFFORT.
It doesn't. An increase in base capture rates usually indicates an environment where capturing a base is becoming more easy. But there are various factors that can have an impact on that.
For example, when the old rectangular small towns were replaced by the current large ones, the rate of base capturing went way down because it suddenly became far more difficult to fulfill the requirements. (Remember? At first there wasn't even a flag and you needed to kill every single building). It recovered somewhat after the requirements were lowered and tactics adjusted.
Then, with declining population, the rate of captures began to rise slowly over the years.
By the way, the highest rate of captures per player and per played hour could be found in the old EW arena... ;)
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Lusche,
Would it be a lot of work to run the same stats from 2004 to present? IF so, please disregard.
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Almost sounds like moving back to simpler easy to take down objects might increase activity with our smaller numbers. Then you have a Catch-22 that base grabbing is easier and making one population segment happier. While another is angry at Hitech for the perception he has made them super runway vulch bait and it's not worth upping past a certain point in a field attack. I seem to remember when we had less ack on fields and players were PO'd about being vulch bait back then.
The current field and town objects along with the capture requirements, 10 years ago would have slowed down the hoard steam rollers back then. So from 15 years of observation, the objects we have today aside from simply cosmetic upgrades for the times, are a response to lessons learned by Hitech about game play in the MA over time. That extreme of game play brought on by an average population size of 300-400 is not as prevalent today due to our low population in the MA. A beginning edge of a critical mass and change in MA population activity patterns towards classic hoarding starts at about 200 players. At 200 which is still low numbers, do you want the activity uptick that inspires more activity or, do you want to hold them back becasue of things that happened in the past which the new objects and their function requirements are designed to do?
My last two terrains I've been experimenting with this concept by placing as a majority, small air fields all over the terrains along with reduced transit distances between fields to reduce the amount of effort to capture territory. A few nights it looks like too little too late as the crickets serenade me. Then the rest of the time there are good activity levels for the numbers carrying on past prime time for a few hours. This holds constant with both of my terrains which I biased with a majority small airfields and shortened distances between fields. The few medium and large fields I placed on each of my terrains slows down game play like I intended for those objects to do at the locations I placed them. Hitech likes tangible data of some kind to back up our assertions to him I have noticed over the years.
So a general simplification of the town and field objects for destruction and capture may not be a bad thing towards generating activity given our current average prime time numbers in the MA. A simplification will probably resonate with the newer game playing demographic because it will be easier to accomplish "something". Our training crucible for new players way back when was the mission hoard and how it protected newer players while they learned. It's not like loosing feilds will keep an air combat centrist player from getting his plane into the air and at red guys. Or a GVer from sneaking into a town. It probably means the current terrain would get rotated faster.
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Am I to understand this is yet another thread about the displeasure of people running M3s to resup rather than upping from a capped field only to be vulched picked hoed ganged up on and die before getting up off the runway? Then the horde wonders why no one is upping to promote air combat? Or have I misunderstood ?? IMHO if you are actually trying to take the base anything goes to prevent defenders from getting to town to kill the troops... The same goes for defending which includes M3 resup missions when upping aircraft only results in instant death and score padding.. Sometimes the enemy doesn't want the base only wants to furball which is fine if they let you up
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:salute
There has been a departure from "some" fun aspects in the game, in favor of "some" more challenging aspects of the game....
I just wish that portion of the "game" would be nudged in favor of the lonely fighter wishing to experience more air conflict.
The shiny ground objects with wheels or sometimes tracks, would be much better serve the active roll of combat if they were needed to cut off troop advance from C47s or M3s, rather than deliver time warp magical dust from Merlin the Wizard.
(Well, at least it sounded nicer in my head).
Been saying the same thing for quite a few years now in game. How can they tout themselves as a realistic WW2 air war, when the invisible GV's ruin the furballs? :cheers:
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Am I to understand this is yet another thread about the displeasure of people running M3s to resup rather than upping from a capped field only to be vulched picked hoed ganged up on and die before getting up off the runway? Then the horde wonders why no one is upping to promote air combat? Or have I misunderstood ?? IMHO if you are actually trying to take the base anything goes to prevent defenders from getting to town to kill the troops... The same goes for defending which includes M3 resup missions when upping aircraft only results in instant death and score padding.. Sometimes the enemy doesn't want the base only wants to furball which is fine if they let you up
AMEN! Goes along with the supra-geniuses that try whimper and complain about "Bomb and Bail" buff drivers .... thinly disguised as "Hey! you ruined my chance to get 3 free kills to pad my manly fighter score".
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AMEN! Goes along with the supra-geniuses that try whimper and complain about "Bomb and Bail" buff drivers .... thinly disguised as "Hey! you ruined my chance to get 3 free kills to pad my manly fighter score".
Guys diving in on my buffs don't get easy kills.
The point is, jumping in to an M3 to resupply SHOULDNT be your first choice
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Guys diving in on my buffs don't get easy kills.
The point is, jumping in to an M3 to resupply SHOULDNT be your first choice
Maye not 'first choice', but still a choice.
Coogan
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Guys diving in on my buffs don't get easy kills.
The point is, jumping in to an M3 to resupply SHOULDNT be your first choice
When a base is being horded and one dies multiple times, and the only other alternative is to up from different base, only to arrive at a newly captured base, you think I shouldn't get in an M3? Please pay my damned subscription then. You want me to play your way? pay me.
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When a base is being horded and one dies multiple times, and the only other alternative is to up from different base, only to arrive at a newly captured base, you think I shouldn't get in an M3? Please pay my damned subscription then. You want me to play your way? pay me.
Grow a pair and up from a different base BEFORE its too late and fight for your base.
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Grow a pair and up from a different base BEFORE its too late and fight for your base.
Damn right.
:aok
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Grow a pair and up from a different base BEFORE its too late and fight for your base.
Fugitive, I respect your time and contribution to the game, but frankly, if I want to up an M3 and resupply a base, I will. Your "suggestions" as to how anyone else should or could play are yours. I will play the way I want, and those who complain constantly about things that don't need changing only make me more determined to do it my way. Thank you, though, for your kind suggestions about what I should do in the game I pay to play.
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An M3 that is supplying the field you are trying to defend is not helping?
Now I am baffled.
Coogan
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More than 1 person should up bombers and take out VHs at various bases to slow down resupply by gvs, oh....... forgot you dont get fighter perks points and your name in lights for that do you.
There is a core set of players who try and do this, and they are not the ones who have not logged on for 6 months and whine like Rosie O’Donnell.
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The last time I played you could take out any hanger in a single pass with something like an F6F-5. Voila! No more M-3's. Next.
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The last time I played you could take out any hanger in a single pass with something like an F6F-5. Voila! No more M-3's. Next.
(http://78.media.tumblr.com/c0935a4ed5f1dc03d2ce7b7dd841f8b9/tumblr_n3f2c0AGWF1so18vqo1_500.gif)
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The last time I played you could take out any hanger in a single pass with something like an F6F-5. Voila! No more M-3's. Next.
The problem is that when the numbers are low there are not enough players on to attack, defend, AND pork.
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AMEN! Goes along with the supra-geniuses that try whimper and complain about "Bomb and Bail" buff drivers .... thinly disguised as "Hey! you ruined my chance to get 3 free kills to pad my manly fighter score".
Ffft. I get my bomber kills the hard way. When you bail because you see me nearby it’s griefing, plain and simple, and you should be appropriately docked for it with three deaths. The pilot making the effort should not be made to suffer by the guy gaming the game. Thankfully proxy range has expanded so this is less an issue now. I’ve noticed bomb and bail has sharply declined in recent months.
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I've noticed the exact opposite
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Math is infallible, soooo
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Grow a pair and up from a different base BEFORE its too late and fight for your base.
pssst.. Hey fugi .. You do realize that upping with alt from another base to fight the base cappers doesn't save your base right?? I'm mean sure it makes it a better chance to survive being at Co alt with the fighters at 5k and higher but what about the troops running into the maproom 5k below you while you're fighting cappers?_and no matter what alt you come in on there is always a pony 10k higher... You know I respect you fugi we don't have to agree on tactics to be friends Mr I hate gvs but going to land 10 kills in a panzer :neener:
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pssst.. Hey fugi .. You do realize that upping with alt from another base to fight the base cappers doesn't save your base right?? I'm mean sure it makes it a better chance to survive being at Co alt with the fighters at 5k and higher but what about the troops running into the maproom 5k below you while you're fighting cappers?_and no matter what alt you come in on there is always a pony 10k higher
No need to climb Scott, just get there. In the old days the goto defense was to up an La7 and race to the base and hunt goons. How often do you see La's these days?
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Actually allot and always on my 6 .... Come to think of it most Lala's I seen are nits .. Maybe that's why YOU don't see them allot :neener: :devil.. Yes people that was a joke
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I've noticed the exact opposite
You're an army of one. I haven't seen one in at least two maybe three months where I didn't get the kill. It's been refreshing. Before that it was a daily occurrence. Constant.
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Okay V,
Since I can count at least ... 45 (that would be 15 x 3) that I have watched bomb and bail in the last 4 days, I'll call ... (well not BS since you claim you haven't seen any and I'll take you at your word) ....so, whatever would be a nicer way to say incorrect.
There is a simple reason for folks to do it: They are trying to replicate the mass effect of a few years back with a mass that doesn't come close. Flying an extra 30 minutes to simply land would be counter productive to what they are trying to accomplish.
Waiting around to shoot some poor kill starved fighter just doesn't fit into their calculus.
Now, I will openly admit that I often decelerate in order to let some greedy fighter guy hurry up and close on me so we can duke it out. :x
And, when I'm the fighter guy on buffs, I'll press an attack that I would never consider in the real world (because its a game and it doesn't hurt to be schwacked by a mean ol' buff driver). :confused:
But a fantasy world, in which a buff driver should spend the next 30 minutes flying back to land some damage inflicted ... on a strat ... just so you can get your jollies and pad a fighter score makes less than zero sense.
I don't care if you get kill credit or not, I'm done with them.
<S>
(There Ciaphas Sir/Ma'am, that math work for ya?)
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You're an army of one. I haven't seen one in at least two maybe three months where I didn't get the kill. It's been refreshing. Before that it was a daily occurrence. Constant.
+1
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Okay V,
Since I can count at least ... 45 (that would be 15 x 3) that I have watched bomb and bail in the last 4 days, I'll call ... (well not BS since you claim you haven't seen any and I'll take you at your word) ....so, whatever would be a nicer way to say incorrect.
So you’re seeing 45 (15) guys bomb and bail out of icon range to grief you in the last four days...
:rofl
I’ll have what you’re having.
Buff hunting is my primary recreation. I’ve seen nothing like your claim in months. I’ve had two sets of proxy bailers, both were lifters as I circled their field. Those are the only ones I can even recall. That’s a far cry from me climbing up to chase a guy at 25K and he bails outside of icon range to grief my effort.
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(There Ciaphas Sir/Ma'am, that math work for ya?)
I haven’t seen a bomb and bail in a very long time. You say you see them often and I don’t doubt your claim. I think it’s more relative to the times we are online. The cats that do this might be online around the same time you are by coincidence. They may be in the same country as me and I just don’t notice them and you might because you’re part of the other team. So there is a lot to be considered and what you see might just be local to the times that you are online, the chess piece you represent etc...
Trying to give a definitive answer or a one shoe fits all answer to a question that has about 20 ever changing variables does not fully represent the issue.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I hate GV's, I hate M3's resupplying towns instead of fighting for them but, I build micro terrains on all of my MA terrains specifically for GV's becasue those players are paying customers that Hitech is providing a service to just like his air combat customers. This game is not an air combat only game and driving those customers out will close Hitech's doors.
No kidding. You have finally admit it. You have been an advocate for neutering the GV aspect with no basis of arguement for GV Dar and no suprise, a complaint of M3 resupply.
For everyone who is complaining about it:
-Have people forgotten to destroy the VH from the base that spawns from?
-Have people forgotten how to look at the clipboard map and destroy the barracks?
-Are people lazy to take some rockets and cannons and babysit the spawn? You have GV dar now for god sakes. It's nuetered! You can see them coming now! Literally!
-Has anyone lift a bomber for a troop/resupply strat run? A B29 can rectify the problem. After that, start porking.
This is where strategy comes in. We all have been burned by a resupply in one way or another.
Evaluate the mistakes of the mission and move on to the next one. Get on with it.
:salute
27th
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Let me clarify: I don't necessarily think they bail because fighters are in the area. I think (MOST) jump out because they are done with the bombers and don't feel like driving back to land.
Further, I wouldn't expect to see that change until Bombers get some benefit from shooting down a fighter.
There aren't any real plusses I can see for the buff driver, save for the giggle factor that comes from knowing that a buff-hunting score-padder* just had his precious K/D adjusted negatively.
* For the record, I fully acknowledge that there is nothing wrong with bouncing the hapless Buffs if you happen to be in the area--its a part of the game, and I openly admit that I will aggressively attack a bunch of buffs if I see them coming towards our base, boats, town, (or Strats) if I am able. What I don't generally (I say generally because I have in fact pursued post-target, but rarely) do is chase them once they have spent their load in the hope of getting easier kills. I also don't get my undies in a bundle when they decide to jump out.
Hope that helps shed some light on the other side of the coin. :cheers:
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No kidding. You have finally admit it. You have been an advocate for neutering the GV aspect with no basis of arguement for GV Dar and no suprise, a complaint of M3 resupply.
27th
What I advocate for has nothing to do with what I build knowing the Melee arena population is not monolithic, and a one sided terrain offering does not address the play of everyone or Hitech's needs. I don't like GV's when I'm spawned on the runway and a T34 my countrymen ignored burps in my ear or, the gamey commander mode lazer beam skeet shooting. And why I place a 1\2mile grass buffer around feilds but, I still slave over micro terrain features for tank combat, makes you wonder why I would do that. Building a terrain for the Melee arena cannot be successful if you don't spend time observing the player base to see how terrains are utilized. I've had 15 months of observing and two terrains out of that so I build micro terrain features for the GV community becasue there is a large viable customer base and tanks drive on the ground, not fly in the air. If this was an airplane only game no one sees the terrain up close like in a tank game. A good example of an unbalanced terrain is buzzsaw before the elevation modification when the single largest complaint was the terrain was setup monolithic to make GVers happy.
You want to take cheap shots 27th, first build a Melee arena terrain. You will either build a stinker as an edifice to yourself, or you will have an epiphany about what Hitech needs to keep his doors open based on his customer play type demographics. You can't simply ask players in these forums about GVing becasue they will tell you their biased fantasies that they want in the game and things will fall apart to partizan bickering. You spend time, months, in the Melee arena listening and watching to see how they utilize the the terrains. Melee arena terrains have to be balanced to serve the customers as a whole becasue it's not a GV arena nor is it an airplane arena. It is a Melee arena filled with all the toys Hitech has produced since 1999. Airplanes are easy to build a terrain for since all the action is in the air.
GVs becasue they are in the grass, are complicated if you don't want to micro terrain bore them or have them sequester themselves in some corner and ignore the ongoing community activity and initiatives. With small numbers, numbers count, numbers taking part in activity spawns more activity if you can help everyone follow the initiative front as the easiest path to follow. And Hitech likes having a few fields with no GV spawns so I throw a few of those into every country.
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Let me clarify: I don't necessarily think they bail because fighters are in the area. I think (MOST) jump out because they are done with the bombers and don't feel like driving back to land.
Further, I wouldn't expect to see that change until Bombers get some benefit from shooting down a fighter.
There aren't any real plusses I can see for the buff driver, save for the giggle factor that comes from knowing that a buff-hunting score-padder* just had his precious K/D adjusted negatively.
* For the record, I fully acknowledge that there is nothing wrong with bouncing the hapless Buffs if you happen to be in the area--its a part of the game, and I openly admit that I will aggressively attack a bunch of buffs if I see them coming towards our base, boats, town, (or Strats) if I am able. What I don't generally (I say generally because I have in fact pursued post-target, but rarely) do is chase them once they have spent their load in the hope of getting easier kills. I also don't get my undies in a bundle when they decide to jump out.
Hope that helps shed some light on the other side of the coin. :cheers:
Most bomb and bail types did it just outside of proxy range, to or from the target. Now that proxy range has expanded this practice has all but ceased.
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Most bomb and bail types did it just outside of proxy range, to or from the target. Now that proxy range has expanded this practice has all but ceased.
Agreed, since the change I think I've seen it maybe twice.
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At no time now or ever will 100% of the player base be happy with the way the game is played or with the aircraft and vehicles.. Whatever hitech ads , modify or removes will make some happy and some mad.. M3 is a tool and if people want to use it instead of fighters so what it's their dime... The more I hear it bugs people the more I want to use it.. You cannot control what when and how people want to use what's in the hanger
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It's my guess that those who complain about the mighty m3 do not care about base taking or defending.. Which is totally fine.. But I do. M3 is a double edged sword what saves by base saves yours... What takes my base.. Takes yours
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It's my guess that those who complain about the mighty m3 do not care about base taking or defending.. Which is totally fine.. But I do. M3 is a double edged sword what saves by base saves yours... What takes my base.. Takes yours
^^^^
This
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It's my guess that those who complain about the mighty m3 do not care about base taking or defending..
So close, yet so very far.
Even the furballer types are invested in base captures - the difference is that we don't care about the result. We want the fight that should ensue from an honest capture attempt.
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So close, yet so very far.
Even the furballer types are invested in base captures - the difference is that we don't care about the result. We want the fight that should ensue from an honest capture attempt.
which is totally fine I'm not trying to affect your gameplay don't try to affect mine.. If I don't want to up a plane to defend cause it's capped I ain't.. Period.. And fureballers won't change that.. I consider myself a fureballers as well but I'm not going to bend over and give away kills trying to up to make you happy.. Maybe a nice 88mm manned gun or wirb to clear some of the vulchers away then I will up aircraft
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which is totally fine I'm not trying to affect your gameplay don't try to affect mine.. If I don't want to up a plane to defend cause it's capped I ain't.. Period.. And fureballers won't change that.. I consider myself a fureballers as well but I'm not going to bend over and give away kills trying to up to make you happy.. Maybe a nice 88mm manned gun or wirb to clear some of the vulchers away then I will up aircraft
Don’t up from a CAP’ed field. Up elsewhere.
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Don’t up from a CAP’ed field. Up elsewhere.
(https://i.imgur.com/DROPl2I.gif)
Coogan
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It's my guess that those who complain about the mighty m3 do not care about base taking or defending.. Which is totally fine.. But I do. M3 is a double edged sword what saves by base saves yours... What takes my base.. Takes yours
A half dozen guys work to take a base and all it takes is one player to run supplies to stop it. How is that even a fight, or a challenge?
Just more instances of players avoiding fights.
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Don’t up from a CAP’ed field. Up elsewhere.
I do and I have a great fights at 8k while the enemy runs troops in that mighty but hated M3 to the maproom 8k below me... You see V the town maproom is on the ground you seen that flag right? The general idea is to shoot the troops before they go into the maproom so I come in at 6k from another base right so guess what I got to do to get to town?? Yes give up my alt and dive to town back to square one.... Am I the only one that knows that the maproom is in town on the ground??
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I do and I have a great fights at 8k while the enemy runs troops in that mighty but hated M3 to the maproom 8k below me... You see V the town maproom is on the ground you seen that flag right? The general idea is to shoot the troops before they go into the maproom so I come in at 6k from another base right so guess what I got to do to get to town?? Yes give up my alt and dive to town back to square one.... Am I the only one that knows that the maproom is in town on the ground??
What’s a maproom?
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You guys crack me up lol there has been more than one occasion where I was dogfighting over my own town trying to stay alive only to be shot down by my own ack cause I didn't see troops
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A half dozen guys work to take a base and all it takes is one player to run supplies to stop it. How is that even a fight, or a challenge?
Just more instances of players avoiding fights.
if the strats are hit and as a bish ours usually are then no ..one man would have to have some help.. You guys do realize we bish have to deal with the enemy resuppin and not uppin as well right?? It's all apart of the game all sides do it the difference is I don't take it personally...I come in with heavy fighter drop the spawning vh and waaalaaa they can try to goon them in but it will be costly
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You guys crack me up lol there has been more than one occasion where I was dogfighting over my own town trying to stay alive only to be shot down by my own ack cause I didn't see troops
but then it wasn't your ack :evil:
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The only way to make some of people happy are to completely remove all gvs from the game.. Yes you can resup and run troops with c47.. And if you gv haters win then hitech better put a set of wing mounted 50s on my c47 and don't give me any garbage about not being historically correct we all know that armed c47s wouldn't be the first inaccurate thing about this game
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but then it wasn't your ack :evil:
#Burn :old:
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but then it wasn't your ack :evil:
lol well I was hoping it was
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I'm truly amazed how many of you try to make other people play the way you want them to play.. I've heard it all.. It's aces high not Aces low.. Fly a real plane not a trainer.. Nurf the M3 resup ability.. Get out of that manned gun and up a plane... Blah blah blah how about you fly what you want to fly.. Drive what you want to drive.. Fight the way you want to fight and stop trying to control something you will never ever be able to control.. And that's other people..?? You bunch of control freaks
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I'm truly amazed how many of you try to make other people play the way you want them to play.. I've heard it all.. It's aces high not Aces low.. Fly a real plane not a trainer.. Nurf the M3 resup ability.. Get out of that manned gun and up a plane... Blah blah blah how about you fly what you want to fly.. Drive what you want to drive.. Fight the way you want to fight and stop trying to control something you will never ever be able to control.. And that's other people..?? You bunch of control freaks
Stop trying to control me by telling me what to do. :rofl
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I have never ever not been able to find a fight in a plane.. Ever.. I play all hours of the day.. My secret you ask?? I'm glad you asked.. I'm not afraid to die.. Taadaa I don't take my pony to 27k and wonder why I can't find someone to climb to me so he has no e left so I can roll over and kill him... Fly 8k to enemy base wait for uppers fly away from ack and fight multiple uppers ya I die but I kill some I'm not into fighting just to pad my score or see my name in lights Ill fight 30 at once if I just want to furball I don't care I have a blast and I let no one screw with that
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Stop trying to control me by telling me what to do. :rofl
touche vman lol :salute
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touche vman lol :salute
:cheers: :lol :salute
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I'm tired of these ridiculous CONTINUOUS attempts to tell us how to play the game. YOU play the way YOU want, but STOP telling ME how to play MY GAME. M-3s are fine, anyone saying otherwise is no more than a whining pansy who only wants things the easy way. Play the game.
Bruh I killed 15 M3s in a 190F8 during a single base capture...wasn't fun...lots of kills but zero fun. You keep playing your way until you are the only ones at the bar wondering why everyone left it.
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Bruv, if you think that nerfing M3s will save the game you're mistaken. When they get nerfed and bases just keep getting rolled, EVEN IN OFF HOURS, do you think that will improve player numbers?
It will make people up a viable defense which in turn will lead to more of a fight....which will make people want to play the game.
Why are games like CSGO, Pubg, and fortnite so successful....oh their combat is forced and you can't hide from it forever and win.
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First, Bruv, I hope you know I have do grief with you. You are a pillar of the community, and I have known you since you ventured into Fighter Ace, years ago. Bish regularly outnumber everyone else, and they are typically the ones in here griping about ENY. IMHO more needs to be done during peak hours to FORCE player to even the teams. M3s resupping bases is no problem, and it is not the cause of players not flying. I fly if I feel like it, I tank if I feel like it, and no YAYHOO complainer is going to make me change. They may make me leave, and then what are they gonna do? They will be happy, because there's no one left.
That might be for you but a large portion of the community will do whatever it takes to hold or take bases....hence why nerfing resupply would make them use other tactics which create bigger and better fights.
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Pay my subscription and an hourly wage, and I will play the game the way you want me to play.
Nobody is saying how to play the game...if HTC nerfed resupply you could still do it...it's effect would just be less.
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"Now there's something you don't see every day, Edgar."
"What's that, Chauncey?"
"Aces High veterans callin' each other names and threatnin' to quit because of halftracks."
"What's so strange about...Halftracks? Did you say halftracks?"
"Halftracks. They been arguing about it for months. Maybe a year."
"Makes no sense to me, Edgar. You'd think they'd be more intrest'd in tryin' to kill each other."
"Yep. Well, it's been a strange place ever since the moose left town."
"Sure has. Wonder if they'll ever get over it?"
- oldman
I brought this up probably closer to 4 years ago now
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Please, show us these stats.
Hes not wrong. Airplanes make up a huge percentage of the sorties in Aces High over GVs...P51 being used the most followed by the Spit16 I believe, that may have changed....look at Snails mega thread...heck he's probably already showed it after Violators comment
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It will make people up a viable defense which in turn will lead to more of a fight....which will make people want to play the game.
Why are games like CSGO, Pubg, and fortnite so successful....oh their combat is forced and you can hide from it forever and win.
you really think that lol you do know that people have nurfed the M3 in gameplay right now by taking out the spawning vh right?? And yet here we are.. You can't get any more nerfed than not being able to up one and yet you still don't have enough air targets? Hmm I guess no M3s at all still didn't fix your problem
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Instead of thinking of supplies as "magic" think of them as a load of engineers instead of a load of troops. For each load there's more workers and the time to rebuild is decreased.
It seems to me it was more fun when the towns and fields were smaller/simpler. It didn't take a horde to capture a base therefor the combat was more spread out. Aligned with that, as the bases grew there were more bunkers, ack, etc. disbursed further throughout the fields. I used to go to GV bases and kill the troop/supply bunkers to stop GV's from resupplying nearby bases. Who does that anymore? Evidently no one based on the complaints about M3 resupply. I stopped doing it when it became too hard to accomplish.
You can resupply that base faster then you can take down the troops and town at the base it resupplies...which is the problem and why it should be nerfed....porking doesn't work which is everyone counter argument. or execute planned missions...which is stupid to ask a crowd of strangers...because most are, most are not on the same channel while playing and shouldnt be.
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Am I to understand this is yet another thread about the displeasure of people running M3s to resup rather than upping from a capped field only to be vulched picked hoed ganged up on and die before getting up off the runway? Then the horde wonders why no one is upping to promote air combat? Or have I misunderstood ?? IMHO if you are actually trying to take the base anything goes to prevent defenders from getting to town to kill the troops... The same goes for defending which includes M3 resup missions when upping aircraft only results in instant death and score padding.. Sometimes the enemy doesn't want the base only wants to furball which is fine if they let you up
The problem is people aren't upping a defense against an attack in the first place...they are going right to an M3.
You've seen me plenty of times getting vulched (repeatedly) to defend a field...not asking anyone to do something I wouldn't do.
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When a base is being horded and one dies multiple times, and the only other alternative is to up from different base, only to arrive at a newly captured base, you think I shouldn't get in an M3? Please pay my damned subscription then. You want me to play your way? pay me.
As of right now you should....but that shouldnt be the way the game is played....we should see red dar or a base flashing from GVs and up to defend before they have horded the base...right now M3 makes you nerds lazy.
Oh and like to point out...we used to not have M3 resupply and you never heard me say crap about it until I came back and noticed it.
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At no time now or ever will 100% of the player base be happy with the way the game is played or with the aircraft and vehicles.. Whatever hitech ads , modify or removes will make some happy and some mad.. M3 is a tool and if people want to use it instead of fighters so what it's their dime... The more I hear it bugs people the more I want to use it.. You cannot control what when and how people want to use what's in the hanger
Them using M3s effects others....which makes others have to go against what they would normally use in the hangar....your argument doesnt work...whats the base model of the game...combat simulator, using m3s to counter an air attack isn't combat...it's cowardice in a video game....using a whirbel???? THATS COMBAT
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Hes not wrong. Airplanes make up a huge percentage of the sorties in Aces High over GVs...P51 being used the most followed by the Spit16 I believe, that may have changed....look at Snails mega thread...heck he's probably already showed it after Violators comment
Well he said this....
"Statistics prove that most people in AH enjoy the fighter air combat more than anything else. "
How many of the pony numbers are players using it as a bomb truck? His #1 belief is that the vast majority of players want to fight in fighters A2A, and that is just wrong. It may have been in the old, old days, but it hasn't been that way for a long time. Even back in the hey day we had mega squads that spent all their time grabbing base. Sure they would fight for them, but it was only a "means to an end". Now they grab the bases without fighting for them.
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Junky .. How many times have you and others played paddle wheel with my lil butt from me trying to up and defend a base?? M3 is not my first line of defense and most times it's not even a viable one unless I want to make 12 trips I'm one of only a handful that are truckers as bul1dog2 likes to call us... If defenders has enough defenders then some will up from a close base and drive the cappers away to take pressure off that base so others can up to get to town. If defenders organized and have numbers. . That makes for a hell of a fight m3 needed
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you really think that lol you do know that people have nurfed the M3 in gameplay right now by taking out the spawning vh right?? And yet here we are.. You can't get any more nerfed than not being able to up one and yet you still don't have enough air targets? Hmm I guess no M3s at all still didn't fix your problem
Oh so a bunch of random players have to have a coordinated attack on a V base and an airfield in order to take a field....BUT you were complainging about hordes which is why you up M3s....the average players would need a horde to accomplish that task...please keep making arguments which counter your own...makes me look smart.
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Oh so a bunch of random players have to have a coordinated attack on a V base and an airfield in order to take a field....BUT you were complainging about hordes which is why you up M3s....the average players would need a horde to accomplish that task...please keep making arguments which counter your own...makes me look smart.
a horde of one heavy fighter? Or 4.. Now you're making me look smart
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Junky .. How many times have you and others played paddle wheel with my lil butt from me trying to up and defend a base?? M3 is not my first line of defense and most times it's not even a viable one unless I want to make 12 trips I'm one of only a handful that are truckers as bul1dog2 likes to call us... If defenders has enough defenders then some will up from a close base and drive the cappers away to take pressure off that base so others can up to get to town. If defenders organized and have numbers. . That makes for a hell of a fight m3 needed
You don't use it first scott but I've seen countless times where we fly to a field and the only ENEMY we see is an M3 running supps....and we posted about the attack prior to going to the field on 200.....the issue is M3 resupply should be a reaction after a solid defense has been made, it shouldn't be the defense itself.
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And don't confuse complaining with observing I never complain about being capped I adept adjust and overcome which might mean in M3
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a horde of one heavy fighter? Or 4.. Now you're making me look smart
Coordinated as in theres 4 hitting a V base adjacent to the airfield you want to take so another lets say 5 hitting the other airfield to get town down and run troops so 9 which yep when there's 90 people online I'd call 10% of the population a horde yes...
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And don't confuse complaining with observing I never complain about being capped I adept adjust and overcome which might mean in M3
I up and fly against hordes all the time heck I'm literally making a video right now of me flying against like 5 enemy alone....people who are afraid to up a fighter at a capped field so they run M3s are calling me a cry baby while they are the ones afraid to die in a game...who's the one crying?
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So nerf the sups back to 3 min like the old days... Will that make you and fugi happy?
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Coordinated as in theres 4 hitting a V base adjacent to the airfield you want to take so another lets say 5 hitting the other airfield to get town down and run troops so 9 which yep when there's 90 people online I'd call 10% of the population a horde yes...
well then my friend.. Your problem isn't the M3 it's numbers
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I'll tell you what junky I'll be logged in probably another 140 miles I'll show you how to hit strats drop vh when I get to Simi valley
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The strats are vital for both defence and taking of bases..49ers knew this and made it mission one to hit our strats hard... If I'm checking down time on guns or town and I see it's going to be down for 116 min you think I'm going to resup that base? By myself... No then it's no longer defending I want is blood... I'm in a Dora from a close base and I'm killing everything I see but I'm staying high and bnz my butt off until the base is lost then I'm running my butt off while all the cappers land their kills at their new base that I plugged the toilet in the oclub at
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Maybe I should switch countries maybe it's my way of thinking that's wrong
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Maybe I should switch countries maybe it's my way of thinking that's wrong
Switching sides has never been wrong. HT even offers incentives to do it (when it involves balancing the arena). However, he doesn't punish anyone for being willing to give up their uber ride (air or ground) to enjoy being on a side with a numbers advantage that may well earn bonus perks for rolling a map. Dale's a rather smart fellow, when it comes to letting players make their own beds then cry about sleeping in them. :D
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So nerf the sups back to 3 min like the old days... Will that make you and fugi happy?
Me, I'd like to see it so that no matter how many supplies you drop you can NOT get the time below 15 minutes.... you have to FIGHT to keep it. On the other side of that coin I'd love to see the ack NOT pop up when the base is captured for 15 minutes..... you have to FIGHT to hold it after capturing it. No more running off to the next base and leaving the one you just grabbed undefended.
I'd rather see strategy play more of a part than the "gimmicks" people seem to rely on these days. You want to capture a base, PLAN and EXECUTE better than the defenders.
I would love to see players use GV to attack bases, defend bases. Id love to see buffs used to level bomb from alt , with fighter cover to get in, with fighter cap to slow them down. I'd love to see the "FIGHT" put back into the game.
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Me, I'd like to see it so that no matter how many supplies you drop you can NOT get the time below 15 minutes.... you have to FIGHT to keep it. On the other side of that coin I'd love to see the ack NOT pop up when the base is captured for 15 minutes..... you have to FIGHT to hold it after capturing it. No more running off to the next base and leaving the one you just grabbed undefended.
I'd rather see strategy play more of a part than the "gimmicks" people seem to rely on these days. You want to capture a base, PLAN and EXECUTE better than the defenders.
I would love to see players use GV to attack bases, defend bases. Id love to see buffs used to level bomb from alt , with fighter cover to get in, with fighter cap to slow them down. I'd love to see the "FIGHT" put back into the game.
I can appreciate the merit in this. :salute :cheers:
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Ok fugi .
I'm on board with that... My apologies to the Op I've seem to have hijacked this thread I need to switch to decaf
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Ok fugi .
I'm on board with that... My apologies to the Op I've seem to have hijacked this thread I need to switch to decaf
Just gotta stop hittin on the diesel exhaust Scott. :x
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Me, I'd like to see it so that no matter how many supplies you drop you can NOT get the time below 15 minutes.... you have to FIGHT to keep it. On the other side of that coin I'd love to see the ack NOT pop up when the base is captured for 15 minutes..... you have to FIGHT to hold it after capturing it. No more running off to the next base and leaving the one you just grabbed undefended.
I'd rather see strategy play more of a part than the "gimmicks" people seem to rely on these days. You want to capture a base, PLAN and EXECUTE better than the defenders.
I would love to see players use GV to attack bases, defend bases. Id love to see buffs used to level bomb from alt , with fighter cover to get in, with fighter cap to slow them down. I'd love to see the "FIGHT" put back into the game.
I like it
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Me, I'd like to see it so that no matter how many supplies you drop you can NOT get the time below 15 minutes.... you have to FIGHT to keep it. On the other side of that coin I'd love to see the ack NOT pop up when the base is captured for 15 minutes..... you have to FIGHT to hold it after capturing it. No more running off to the next base and leaving the one you just grabbed undefended.
I'd rather see strategy play more of a part than the "gimmicks" people seem to rely on these days. You want to capture a base, PLAN and EXECUTE better than the defenders.
I would love to see players use GV to attack bases, defend bases. Id love to see buffs used to level bomb from alt , with fighter cover to get in, with fighter cap to slow them down. I'd love to see the "FIGHT" put back into the game.
This is all good until we figure away around this.......and then you'll want to change it again
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Just gotta stop hittin on the diesel exhaust Scott. :x
lol but I'm addicted red :x maybe I'm just cranky haven't been home since Christmas lol
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Be careful what you wish for.
When HT tested neutering m3s for a month, there was a great deal of unhappiness. Several people threatened to cancel their subscriptions if turned out to be permanent.
Then HT instituted the GV dar. Many players teetering on the edge of unsubscription fell into the abyss.
It is changes like this--trying to make players play the way you'd like rather than the way that they like--that has cost HT a substantial # of long term subscribers.
If HT is trying to transition his game into a far more fighter-oriented endeavor, then that's his call. But things like what you are hinting at will further erode the long term player base, thus lowering player numbers even more (and making it even harder for people to find a fight).
Is that really what you want?
Okay,....Its me( bro06562) at least my call sign(bro) to the knights and long time(10yrs) player,...Is the dar gone? I kinda tuned out when it arrived and just peeked in here rather than log on(sitting on the should I continue sidelines). :neener:
Love the game please don't anyone get me wrong but some of the weird changes just turned me off and I wondered away to visit now once in a blue moon because I miss all you mutants from all three sides :cheers:
I soooo very much miss those large Titanic Tuesdays when everyone was busy hunting each other down :airplane:
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Okay,....Its me( bro06562) at least my call sign(bro) to the knights and long time(10yrs) player,...Is the dar gone? I kinda tuned out when it arrived and just peeked in here rather than log on(sitting on the should I continue sidelines). :neener:
Love the game please don't anyone get me wrong but some of the weird changes just turned me off and I wondered away to visit now once in a blue moon because I miss all you mutants from all three sides :cheers:
The GV dar has turned a lot of people off. I've been hoping that HT would get rid of it (or at least adjust it to something I'd be willing to live and play with, Copprhead had a pretty good idea in that regard) but I don't think that's going to happen. Ah, well...
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The GV dar has turned a lot of people off. I've been hoping that HT would get rid of it (or at least adjust it to something I'd be willing to live and play with, Copprhead had a pretty good idea in that regard) but I don't think that's going to happen. Ah, well...
Im not seeing the issue. Vehicle movement is obvious in real life, a base should know the general area of an attacking ground force. The same way radar detects planes, base defenders should detect vehicles within proximity of the base/town. I'm the best bomb**** in the game and the GV dar is of little help to me, I think it favors the guys on the ground the most, no more driving around aimlessly looking for a fight.
Are the complaints against GV dar because people think they are getting bombed more often now? Even before gv dar I'd see 10 guys up with eggs anytime a town was flashing without an aircraft associated with it. And even with GV dar its impossible to find tanks that decide to hide.
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Im not seeing the issue. Vehicle movement is obvious in real life, a base should know the general area of an attacking ground force. The same way radar detects planes, base defenders should detect vehicles within proximity of the base/town. I'm the best bomb**** in the game and the GV dar is of little help to me, I think it favors the guys on the ground the most, no more driving around aimlessly looking for a fight.
Are the complaints against GV dar because people think they are getting bombed more often now? Even before gv dar I'd see 10 guys up with eggs anytime a town was flashing without an aircraft associated with it. And even with GV dar its impossible to find tanks that decide to hide.
Here's a post I made a month or two ago explaining why I view it as such a paradigm shirt. These aren't my only reasons--the ability of someone flying at 23k to discover the presence of a GV via the darbar even though nothing is flashing (which was how I 1st learned of it) seems ridiculous as well--but they're my main ones. Maybe other players have additional reasons, I don't know.
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It seems to have limited efficacy in narrowing down where a GV might be hiding, and far too much efficacy in locating a GV on the move. This maximizes the need to hide rather than fight if a bomb**** is present, and unless you like searching for a well-hidden enemy like 8thjinx does, it simply takes players away from the potential of a fun fight and into (what would be to me) a tedious search.
I guess I'll never get it why this new GV dar was considered necessary. Anyone who can read activity on a map (town flash, base flash, shore battery flash, or all three) could tell about where a GV had to be without it. If there was a find-the-fight benefit it seems to me to have been minimal: and at what price? A significant number of players dislike it passionately and the strategy and stealth aspect of the game have been greatly reduced.
Some of you treat "stealth" like a bad word, as if the people who hide GVs are trying to avoid a fight. They're not. They're trying to accomplish an objective (white flag a town mostly) before someone ups and kills them, which isn't the same at all. It was one of the things I liked doing most in AH--there was such a drama aspect of poking around and blowing the crap out of a town, hoping the presence of GVs was unsuspected, watching cons and uppers and wondering if they'd figured it out and were on their way to kill you, racing around trying to find and kill the last few buildings to make the town ready while the m3 you'd called for was sweating bullets at the flag...it was intense. And, IF successful (yes, often without a fight, though the most fun was had when the bad guys figured it out at the last moment and the issue was in doubt), a fight almost always happened moments later, either at the base you'd just taken as the enemy tried to deack and take it back, or at the next base over as you tried to spawn out of your new toehold in enemy territory to a new target before the bad guys could react.
That's lost now. So is the 20 mile m3 drive to a base without a spawn and hoping for a white flag/deack while the enemy, even if aware there is peril, is searching for a goon while you chuckle, communicate the situation on the ground with teammates, and wait. It was such a triumph for all involved if you succeeded; and such a triumph for the enemy if he was clever enough to suspect and find you after your long drive...!
Anyway, enough reminiscing. But I did want the stealth disparagers to have a better sense of why the GV dar spoils the game for many of us.
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23k is still within range of radios, I'm sure the base would alert you of attacking forces. Everything shouldnt have to be seen with your own eyes to know its there.
How about if a GV is moving and within 6k of an enemy player it is reported to the base for the usual GV dar inclusion? I'd like the same type of GV dar for planes as well when radar is down to simulate the player reporting the threat to the base.
All of this is fixed if you take down ords at a base before attacking, I get so many kills attacking a base with ords down because everyone thinks they can strafe a T-34 to death and are too lazy to up at another base, someone else will take care of the attack.
We are still at similar GV activity levels/kills/and captures by vehicles than we were before the dar. I think people are blowing the effect of it out of proportion. This game was crushed in steam reviews with one main reason being it takes so long to understand, sure veterans can spot a GV attack coming, but new people to the game deserve the slight assist in finding action. How many times have you seen it where new players up at reserve bases and aimlessly fly around or GV.
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23k is still within range of radios, I'm sure the base would alert you of attacking forces. Everything shouldnt have to be seen with your own eyes to know its there.
All of this is fixed if you take down ords at a base before attacking.
This game was crushed in steam reviews with one main reason being it takes so long to understand, sure veterans can spot a GV attack coming, but new people to the game deserve the slight assist in finding action. How many times have you seen it where new players up at reserve bases and aimlessly fly around or GV.
1) There were no attacking forces. Nothing was being attacked--or even flashing--so there ought to have been no way for anyone to have known a GV was there. Yet I, at 23k on my way to the strats, knew. That doesn't compute.
2) Here's another excerpt from a previous post of mine, concerning ords this time:
With the ammo strat tougher and (usually) harder to get to than before, ord bunker downtime is typically 30 minutes. I've mentioned before that it's hard to get a critical mass of people to each play a part in a base take, so you're right that "I" (as opposed to a teammate who probably won't be available) ought to hit ords before I roll a GV to a base.
Given the likely 30min downtime on the ord bunkers and the typical 7-10min drive to target, are you suggesting then that after I kill the ords at a base I should bail to up my GV? Is that kind of gameplay you encourage?
3) It does take long to understand. I'm not sure how HT is going to get people up and around that steep learning curve quickly enough to get them to stay past their two week trial. But the assist in finding a fight via GV dar is indeed slight and a number of long term players left the game because of it. There's got to be a better way.
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1) There were no attacking forces. Nothing was being attacked--or even flashing--so there ought to have been no way for anyone to have known a GV was there.
Technically, one enemy GV qualifies as 'an attacking force.' Soldiers on patrol, citizens in the town, farmers or herders nearby may be able to tell that the GV belongs to 'the other guys' (even though AH distributes equipment equally).
HQ: Hello, General Melchett's office, Captain Darling speaking.
Herder: Hello, Darling. A tank ran over my sheep. Who's gonna pay for that?
Darling: Where did this happen?
Herder: Ten miles north of the village.
Darling (covering receiver): Corporal Baldrick, are there any armored vehicles operating north of town?
Baldrick: Theirs or ours?
Darling: Ours!
Baldrick: Today?
Darling: Today!
Baldrick: Not operating, sir.
Darling: Are there any parked?
Baldrick: Theirs or ours?
Darling (to herder): This may require compensation from another source. (hangs up)
General alarm, sector three!
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1) There were no attacking forces. Nothing was being attacked--or even flashing--so there ought to have been no way for anyone to have known a GV was there. Yet I, at 23k on my way to the strats, knew. That doesn't compute.
2) Here's another excerpt from a previous post of mine, concerning ords this time:
With the ammo strat tougher and (usually) harder to get to than before, ord bunker downtime is typically 30 minutes. I've mentioned before that it's hard to get a critical mass of people to each play a part in a base take, so you're right that "I" (as opposed to a teammate who probably won't be available) ought to hit ords before I roll a GV to a base.
Given the likely 30min downtime on the ord bunkers and the typical 7-10min drive to target, are you suggesting then that after I kill the ords at a base I should bail to up my GV? Is that kind of gameplay you encourage?
3) It does take long to understand. I'm not sure how HT is going to get people up and around that steep learning curve quickly enough to get them to stay past their two week trial. But the assist in finding a fight via GV dar is indeed slight and a number of long term players left the game because of it. There's got to be a better way.
Why does it sound like you dont want to run into ANY opposition? Whats the point of playing "the best WW2 and WW1 combat experience online!" if your looking to avoid everyone?
The point of the dar is to help players find action, not individual players. I dont see how the GV dar has done anything to stop players from playing any type of game they want. In the case of total avoidance of others, it's still possible it just takes a bit more work/strategy to do it.
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Even the furballer types are invested in base captures - the difference is that we don't care about the result. We want the fight that should ensue from an honest capture attempt.
I have to coin that phrase, "honest capture attempt". (definition: a group gathered with a combined effort to accomplish the single task of placing 10 uninjured troops into an enemy's maproom) Don't confuse this with the base "sneak".
Surprisingly, some of the folks that I would most expect to be offended by "gamey" base defense tactics have been :old: advocating for it.
:rolleyes: Continue down this path and ......... I won't be surprised to see only predominantly one type of player left in the MA, "win the map" at ALL costs. This would be fine, if the rest would actually POPULATE some of the other arenas.
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It already is win the map at all costs stalled by don't give up my field at all costs. The M3 makes not giving it up a very powerful way to stall out winning maps and capturing very many fields in a night anymore.
My test on Oceania with 7 airfields per country having only a map room next to the tower to eliminate the solo M3 resupply hero's has been well received by the effort players put into capturing and defending them. Over the years I've observed players are happier when they feel they can win and accomplish things like rolling bases. Ten years ago that was the bread and butter of the MA for hundreds of players 7 days a week.
My new terrain I'm expanding this experiment to 50% of the airfields in each country. Some forum experts have disagreed with me about this but, I have not observed them for the last 15 months using terrain building for the MA to present experiments to the players to get a picture of what can be changed to promote activity. Opposed to their collective expert opinions by our group of experts who live permanently in these forums giving expert "opinions" about everything AH.
I removed the M3 resupply hero from 21 airfields and no one noticed or cares. They simply enjoy the activity and move on to the next field to capture. Hitech inspected that terrain and could have told me to put the M3 solo hero back into the mix for those 21 airfields.
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Why does it sound like you dont want to run into ANY opposition? Whats the point of playing "the best WW2 and WW1 combat experience online!" if your looking to avoid everyone?
The "if you like not fighting so much, you must have tons of fun offline, play there" crowd (which, to be fair, hasn't yet included you, but the above comment leans in that direction) doesn't get where I'm coming from, so I'll try an analogy maybe people like that can relate to.
Say you see a big red darbar building on the map and have figured out the target. Your teammates are either fighting on other fronts or simply outnumbered and the defensive response to this threat is minimal. So you decide to up a 262 and lay waste to the invaders and do what you can on your own. Do you up from the base you think the horde is heading for? Probably not: you want to have enough altitude and E to keep your lonely self alive when you do run into the bad guys. Get caught low and slow in your deuce and you're screwed.
So. When you get to target you've got a very few good guys and a whole lotta bad guys in front of you, and the alt and E you needed to make life difficult for the latter. You've got the fight you want. And if a bad guy shows up with alt and E on you, you're likely to want to use your plane's superior speed to clear your 6. But you still want a fight! You just want it on your terms, right? And when you think you've got enough E to re-engage successfully you'll be back.
I like a fight, too! But, like the 262 pilot, I want it on my terms. Remember that I'm "flying" an easily killable wirb or m3--no extending away from bad guys for me! All I have going for me is violence and stealth. The 262 pilot wanted altitude and E before he engaged his enemies; I want a chance for me and my meager crew of one or two to get the town white-flagged before I have to fight. The 262 pilot may or may not care if the base gets taken, but to me a sortie is pointless unless it serves some larger purpose for my team. If sneaks were the only things I ever did I'd understand the "hiding from a fight" accusations thrown so often my way. But I was a pretty well known player who often flew pretty killable buffs at pretty killable alts so the hiding thing simply doesn't ring true.
Having A20s waiting to bomb me before I could get to town happened often in the pre-GV darbar era, but that was part of the drama and kudos to the guy who figured out what I was up to before it became a real threat. Now there's much less opportunity for stealth--especially if players want to try to do something clever and skirt the target to come at it from an unexpected direction, or drive an m3 long distance--and for people like me that's a really major loss.
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Hitech has reduced the available terrains to 10x10 or equivalent combat area so coming into anywhere from an unexpected direction is a canard. Especially with so many vets in the MA. The majority of the terrains are from AH2 and many of these guys have been playing on them up to 10 years month after month now. Even with radar down they have a very good idea where things are coming from becasue of experience. As for a single strat runner, they were ignoring you except for the small number who liked waiting for strat runners. And the current state of GV's, Hitech forgot to put in GVDAR for about 15 years now from something he mentioned in the alpha\beta testing. He was using the alpha\beta to test many things he wanted to put in the game all along over the years.
Welcome to GVDAR.
Stealth, you ever considered Hitech does not care about stealth? If he did we could have gotten him to raise the minimum radar level back to 200ft to facilitate stealth NOE missions and smash and grab base takes like we all avoided each other with back when there were up to 700 players in the arena some nights. The same ACM hero's from today complaining there are no fights were making the same complaints with 700 players. No one wanted to fight for anything or face them heads up. Hitech lowered the radar minimum becasue 700 players would hide from each other in the MA by running around NOE grabbing out of the way undefended airfields. And players just like yourself made the same stealth as strategy and survival argument as you are doing but, for "airplanes". So here we are full circle and now the argument is for GV stealth to hide from everyone and grab undefended feilds out of the way all over again.
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The "if you like not fighting so much, you must have tons of fun offline, play there" crowd (which, to be fair, hasn't yet included you, but the above comment leans in that direction) doesn't get where I'm coming from, so I'll try an analogy maybe people like that can relate to.
Say you see a big red darbar building on the map and have figured out the target. Your teammates are either fighting on other fronts or simply outnumbered and the defensive response to this threat is minimal. So you decide to up a 262 and lay waste to the invaders and do what you can on your own. Do you up from the base you think the horde is heading for? Probably not: you want to have enough altitude and E to keep your lonely self alive when you do run into the bad guys. Get caught low and slow in your deuce and you're screwed.
So. When you get to target you've got a very few good guys and a whole lotta bad guys in front of you, and the alt and E you needed to make life difficult for the latter. You've got the fight you want. And if a bad guy shows up with alt and E on you, you're likely to want to use your plane's superior speed to clear your 6. But you still want a fight! You just want it on your terms, right? And when you think you've got enough E to re-engage successfully you'll be back.
I like a fight, too! But, like the 262 pilot, I want it on my terms. Remember that I'm "flying" an easily killable wirb or m3--no extending away from bad guys for me! All I have going for me is violence and stealth. The 262 pilot wanted altitude and E before he engaged his enemies; I want a chance for me and my meager crew of one or two to get the town white-flagged before I have to fight. The 262 pilot may or may not care if the base gets taken, but to me a sortie is pointless unless it serves some larger purpose for my team. If sneaks were the only things I ever did I'd understand the "hiding from a fight" accusations thrown so often my way. But I was a pretty well known player who often flew pretty killable buffs at pretty killable alts so the hiding thing simply doesn't ring true.
Having A20s waiting to bomb me before I could get to town happened often in the pre-GV darbar era, but that was part of the drama and kudos to the guy who figured out what I was up to before it became a real threat. Now there's much less opportunity for stealth--especially if players want to try to do something clever and skirt the target to come at it from an unexpected direction, or drive an m3 long distance--and for people like me that's a really major loss.
The whole 262 scenario doesnt work for me as I'd come in at 5k with may head on fire to take out as many guys as I could. The perks dont matter nor does the "death". I'd be in for the fight. A couple months ago I was defending a base in a pnzer. For the most part I suck in GVs but I get lucky now and then. I shot down 3 or 4, a couple being M3s and at least 3 proxies as the Bish hit the town with their typical skill :) They captured the base and I spent the next 20-40 dodgin a number of "hunters" looking for my panzer. Jumping tree grove to tree grove I evaded a couple of tanks and a number of planes looking to drop some bombs on my head. They finally gave up and I got a green "end sortie" and did so.
So no I did not save the base, nor was I in a position to slow the hit on the next base, but I did have a heck of a lot of fun evading the hunt to land my kills. So I know it CAN be done. If a GV dweeb like me can do it, a pro like you and others can do it. I just think you and the other who complain of the changes just dont want to be bothered with "working at it". So many other changes have effected the "fighter guys", or the Bomber guys" and yet we continue on. Do I like all the changes we have had over the years, no, but as everyone says, "adapt, over come".
It is what it is. So it takes away the single sneak, what does dar look like if you have 3 other friends in the same area? One square of dar, 4 tanks in the same area, SURPRISE!
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Is that the night you landed 10 kills lol
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Is that the night you landed 10 kills lol
yup. :devil
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The whole 262 scenario doesnt work for me as I'd come in at 5k with may head on fire to take out as many guys as I could...
So no I did not save the base, nor was I in a position to slow the hit on the next base, but I did have a heck of a lot of fun evading the hunt to land my kills. So I know it CAN be done. If a GV dweeb like me can do it, a pro like you and others can do it. I just think you and the other who complain of the changes just dont want to be bothered with "working at it". So many other changes have effected the "fighter guys", or the Bomber guys" and yet we continue on. Do I like all the changes we have had over the years, no, but as everyone says, "adapt, over come".
It is what it is. So it takes away the single sneak, what does dar look like if you have 3 other friends in the same area? One square of dar, 4 tanks in the same area, SURPRISE!
1) Yeah, I guessed that the 262 analogy didn't match you well (because you're totally fine with fighting and dying daringly in a perk plane) but hopefully people who fly it in a more traditional manner got at least a smidgen of understanding from my attempt to explain it from a perspective they'd relate to better.
2) Here's another place where we differ. You had fun "evading the hunt to land my kills." Sure, it's nice to land a lot of kills, I don't deny it: but I'd much rather be doing something more productive. I'm not going to tower when someone's looking for me--that wouldn't be fair to him. And I'm not going to give him a kill. So I'm stuck in a mostly tedious attempt to find a green end sortie when I could be blowing stuff and bad guys up.
3) I successfully "adapted and overcame" the major changes from AH2 to AH3 as a bomber pilot, even though they, like the GV dar, favored fighters over bombers and I disliked many of them. But the GV dar as currently instituted changes the game in a fundamental way, and no amount of effort on my part will let me do what I most liked doing any more. Furthermore, the primary mapmaker for AH3 has repeatedly (even joyfully!) announced that he's deliberately creating maps to make both bombing strats and GVing sneakily more difficult, and those were two of my three favorite things. Why should players like me stick around? It's like we're being pushed out the door.
I can't speak for the others who dislike the GV dar as much as I do, but it's not that I didn't want to be bothered with trying to find a way to take a base with GVs despite its existence. There isn't a way that doesn't require lots of GVs, with fighter cover on top of that to menace the inevitable bomb****s, etc. Who can gather a sizable crew together like that nowadays? And isn't that the antithesis of the strategy and stealth aspect of the game I found compelling anyway?
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Be careful what you wish for.
When HT tested neutering m3s for a month, there was a great deal of unhappiness. Several people threatened to cancel their subscriptions if turned out to be permanent.
Then HT instituted the GV dar. Many players teetering on the edge of unsubscription fell into the abyss.
It is changes like this--trying to make players play the way you'd like rather than the way that they like--that has cost HT a substantial # of long term subscribers.
If HT is trying to transition his game into a far more fighter-oriented endeavor, then that's his call. But things like what you are hinting at will further erode the long term player base, thus lowering player numbers even more (and making it even harder for people to find a fight).
Is that really what you want?
I agree with your observations.... the game is being steered in a direction and the means by which that is being done has lead to some disgruntled players .. And claims of can't find a fight...well maybe there isn't one in the air. Maybe the folks on the ground are having it out in a GV battle. Trying to force one group to fight a different mode of combat is kind of counter productive. I would say the Dar, flashing bases and Green country com's should be all the tools you need to find a fight if there is one. taking fun out of one facet of the game to feed another is not the way to fix anything
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There's only so much you can do. If there is a huge tank fight on the map, but you only see a flashing base. How do you know there is a huge tank fight?
If everyone is in tanks and there is very small and lack of fighter dars, how do you know there is big action on the map?
If you are a new player, and only see small dars, and/or only flashing bases, how do they know there is a large tank fight? After flying at a base with a small dar, for 15 minutes, and can't find someone. What do you think they will do?
Tanks have to show some action on the map in order to make the map look like there is action. Not many people will roll without spotting any action in the map.
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I would assume following the concentrated number of friendly gv icons will get you close to the tank fight.
Hopefully the new guys you mention arent using a mouse, hence the most recent steam review.
I would leave the same review after the new mouse controls were laid out especially in gunner positions. Im not the guy thats going to trash a game ive been playing this long on steam though. Hopefully some of my posts have been seen, and may be being addressed.
If ive been using this setup for 17 years and I cant figure it out, how do you think the new guy will do?
Getting rid of mouse commander was a great first step, the other changes, not so much. The rudder control on the ground using aileron input is kind of neat too i guess.
Keep in mind i had to change a lot of mouse settings just to make it usable.
But using gunner positions is just silly as is. 2/3 of the game is literally ubplayable (successfully) using a mouse. This rules out bombing.. unable to gun, and tanking, unable to aim.
Going to try a fresh install eventually just to see what the default.controls are for a new guy using a mouse. Hopefully better than mine. :D
Keep in mind they get two weeks in a populated arena to not only get their settings usable, but then try to figure out a pretty complex game.
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I would assume following the concentrated number of friendly gv icons will get you close to the tank fight.
Hopefully the new guys you mention arent using a mouse, hence the most recent steam review.
I would leave the same review after the new mouse controls were laid out especially in gunner positions. Im not the guy thats going to trash a game ive been playing this long on steam though. Hopefully some of my posts have been seen, and may be being addressed.
If ive been using this setup for 17 years and I cant figure it out, how do you think the new guy will do?
Getting rid of mouse commander was a great first step, the other changes, not so much. The rudder control on the ground using aileron input is kind of neat too i guess.
Keep in mind i had to change a lot of mouse settings just to make it usable.
But using gunner positions is just silly as is. 2/3 of the game is literally ubplayable (successfully) using a mouse. This rules out bombing.. unable to gun, and tanking, unable to aim.
Going to try a fresh install eventually just to see what the default.controls are for a new guy using a mouse. Hopefully better than mine. :D
Keep in mind they get two weeks in a populated arena to not only get their settings usable, but then try to figure out a pretty complex game.
Yeah, I completely follow you on that. Need in game tutorial for control setup and layout.
I don't really know why people aren't opening rooms like H2H use to be. Was great for figuring that stuff out quickly and having quick ffights. I hope the new match play layout will do that over time. I agree with your 2 week analysis per undertsanding the game. Very hard to catch a large draw all playing at once to create a big fight. 2 weeks is over in a heart beat.
A 6 week free trial would get more people to subscribe and if not at least keep them in the game longer, which creates bigger fights.
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A 6 week free trial would get more people to subscribe and if not at least keep them in the game longer, which creates bigger fights.
According to HTC, newbies are giving up after 20 minutes. (I've seen it happen several times.)
So, a 6 week free trial might be a good idea, but it isn't the complete solution. Maybe new players should spawn into the front seat of an AT-6 for a "check ride" with an AI instructor to set up controls and at least get them off the runway. Or, something...
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Or players are allocated mentors :old:
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In Warbirds we had a "page trainer button". A good idea if you get someone to get started.
In another game I fly, it took 2 hours just to set everything up, for one and 2 engined planes, and that was with a friend helping me, else I would have given up.
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resupply is just another one of those corner cutting tactics that "gamers" these days have over used. Its just another way to AVOID combat in "the best WW2 and WW1 combat experience online!" game.
:rolleyes:
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:rolleyes:
WOW, great rebuttal!
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Technically, one enemy GV qualifies as 'an attacking force.' Soldiers on patrol, citizens in the town, farmers or herders nearby may be able to tell that the GV belongs to 'the other guys' (even though AH distributes equipment equally).
HQ: Hello, General Melchett's office, Captain Darling speaking.
Herder: Hello, Darling. A tank ran over my sheep. Who's gonna pay for that?
Darling: Where did this happen?
Herder: Ten miles north of the village.
Darling (covering receiver): Corporal Baldrick, are there any armored vehicles operating north of town?
Baldrick: Theirs or ours?
Darling: Ours!
Baldrick: Today?
Darling: Today!
Baldrick: Not operating, sir.
Darling: Are there any parked?
Baldrick: Theirs or ours?
Darling (to herder): This may require compensation from another source. (hangs up)
General alarm, sector three!
We do not have sheep in AH anymore. Duh! :rolleyes:
I told this to HT a thousand time - put sheep back in the game!
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This is all good until we figure away around this.......and then you'll want to change it again
And this statement is the root of the problem.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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When all is said and done...we the consumer are dumb.... if we werent we would have made such an awesome game without all the stuff we don't like by now and everyone will be happy....instead we beat our heads over and over to convey our dreams and asperations all the while tearing down the very rights we believe we have and expect from others to make a better game than the one we are Golly-geemed totally addicted to without puting our own time and effort into making our own....try as we may to hate this damn game...here we are still playing, albeit with a whinging tone....Gamers game, players play, the balance has been lost which is where things become pronounced.....it will turn again....and again we will cry, kick bite and scream.... but one thing will be true.....it is because we just can't get enough of this stupid damn game !!!!...freedom of speech and righteousness has got in the way of humility.....
Things suck from time to time in this world....but that is just learning.....