Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Gman on February 14, 2018, 06:30:26 PM
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Reuters reporting that nVidia is likely calling their new retail gaming GPU line "Turing" and perhaps not "Volta". Due in March, sometime next month, they are also manufacturing like crazy. Should be interesting to see what they bring to the table what with current GPU market conditions, as well as their incredible company financial performance in the last reports.
I've been waiting, just hope I'm able to snag a couple, my dealer is pretty good about pre ordering, but now, who knows.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nvidia-results-research/frenzied-demand-for-nvidias-graphic-chips-shoot-prices-through-the-roof-idUSKBN1FT2AW
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Cryptocrazies....
Iceland reports that crytocrazy data centers now use more electricity than the entire residential population does. Just awesome.
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Wow, that's a crazy statistic. I wonder how much longer governments will allow crypto to go unregulated, just based off the strain on the power grids worldwide...
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Can't discuss that Gman. Let's not go down the P-word path.
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Wow, that's a crazy statistic. I wonder how much longer governments will allow crypto to go unregulated, just based off the strain on the power grids worldwide...
I can't happen soon enough! I am ready to return to my gaming hobby but I refuse to pay $1k for a video card alone.
I know I've said this before, but I will buy any video cards after the governmental crackdown at an 80% reduction. :devil
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When it goes down pear shaped will decent gpu be sold for £20
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Wow, that's a crazy statistic. I wonder how much longer governments will allow crypto to go unregulated, just based off the strain on the power grids worldwide...
China has already started, though not to regulate but to make illegal, and some other countries are moving in the same direction.
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I can't happen soon enough! I am ready to return to my gaming hobby but I refuse to pay $1k for a video card alone.
I know I've said this before, but I will buy any video cards after the governmental crackdown at an 80% reduction. :devil
You can already go to nearly an manufacturers site and buy 1060, 1070, or 1080s with a waterblock CPU cooler for as low as $440.
https://www.evga.com/products/featured-bundles.aspx
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Turing won't be a gaming chip, it's supposed to be a chip for mining.
The codename family is wrong, Turing was a famous Mathematician but the gaming chips are named after famous Physicists
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You can already go to nearly an manufacturers site and buy 1060, 1070, or 1080s with a waterblock CPU cooler for as low as $440.
Which is still more money than I would pay for a brand new model card a year ago. I'll wait... I refuse to pay that much money, gaming is not my life.
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Turing won't be a gaming chip, it's supposed to be a chip for mining.
The codename family is wrong, Turing was a famous Mathematician but the gaming chips are named after famous Physicists
Correction. Turing was a logician. So, it could go either way. Nvidia wants to support gamers as they are the primary user base of GPUs. It is also true that game developers are struggling to find cards without purchasing entire workstations.
There are also new cards coming that will allow for new levels of artificial intelligence in games. To support this feature requires ultrafast memory, which is another reason for higher prices, and stacked memory. Prices are likely to remain high for some time, if you consider $400 high.
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There are also new cards coming that will allow for new levels of artificial intelligence in games. To support this feature requires ultrafast memory, which is another reason for higher prices, and stacked memory. Prices are likely to remain high for some time, if you consider $400 high.
If this is to become the norm, PC gaming will die. It will be very sad to see consoles take over the market permanently.
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No, pc gaming will not die, because there will always be older cards, or new cards with reduced power. Also, not all games have to use the most powerful cards. Gamers have always been the driving force behind more powerful video cards. If the trend of price gouging continues, then Nvidia will probably go to a registration method of distribution, or you can buy a card with a new system. Plus, there are always embedded systems, all-in-one PCs, and so on.
It won't be the end of PC gaming, because games are made on PCs. Well, it is true that you can make them on Xbox One now, but what Microsoft allows today could literally be gone tomorrow.
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No, pc gaming will not die, because there will always be older cards, or new cards with reduced power. Also, not all games have to use the most powerful cards. Gamers have always been the driving force behind more powerful video cards. If the trend of price gouging continues, then Nvidia will probably go to a registration method of distribution, or you can buy a card with a new system. Plus, there are always embedded systems, all-in-one PCs, and so on.
It won't be the end of PC gaming, because games are made on PCs. Well, it is true that you can make them on Xbox One now, but what Microsoft allows today could literally be gone tomorrow.
This is truer than you imagine. I heard they are planning to remove x86 support for their next o/s.
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My personal computer is due for a refresh, but that is not going to happen. For the first time, in a very long time, buying an OEM computer is much cheaper than building a computer. It is a horrible time to need a computer.
Seems to be a race as to who can go up in price the fastest. RAM or video cards.
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Doesn't bode well for the gaming industry.
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Skuzzy, I'm in the same boat, I typically refresh/upgrade whenever a new GPU series comes out from nVidia, and I have a number of family gaming systems to take care of. Whenever/whatever the new GPU line is, when it comes out I'm not looking forward to the gouging that'll likely still be a reality. Even PSUs - as much of an increase in cost and decrease in availability here in Canada as there is for RAM.
I do hope that the "Turing" codenamed stuff from nVidia is a dedicated mining unit, as that could help take stress off the gaming market a bit - or it could make no difference and both mining and gaming gpus will be similarly gobbled up by the cryptocrazies.
Terrible time for gamers, builders, and businesses trying to survive in this economy and still service gaming customers needs...
There are options, but they still cost more $ than before, and involved purchasing bundles, wait times, or having to buy an entire system instead of just the components you really need/want. Boooo.
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I find myself agreeing with Skuzzy on the $$$ to build versus the $$$ to buy a new system from someplace like Dell or any other mass builder. The savings isn't there like it was just 2-3 years ago. This is a bad thing for business as a whole.
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My dealer had a larger number of their in house pre builts, from which they've now begun to scavenge PSU, RAM, and GPU, and for the last week sold them at a very fair prices(old MSRP for former cutomers, and new customers buying an entire system).
Checking out the local Staples, they had a number of systems with 1080 and 1080ti systems as well still in stock that had various higher end GPU/Ram/PSU-sort of/etc components. It won't last long though, I have a feeling they'd been holding these back, and have put them out for sale as newer stuff is on the way shortly.
Once the existing "reserve or emergency" stock is exhausted out there, and the new line of nVidia and arguably AMD GPU platforms come to market - it's going to be a vicious free for all for everyone in "our" boats, holding off on upgrading, yet needing to. I already have a buy order of sorts with my agent at my dealer for when they start getting stock numbers/etc for the new GPUs, but it's no guarantee.
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I’m stuck- both sons wants a Rift but I don’t think it’s fair to buy video cards required to run it that is almost 2.5X the price before the stupidity of the crypto currencies began mid last year.
So I’m stuck. Waiting for the currency to collapse again or maybe decide that gaming PC’s are no longer an affordable toy. But it doesn’t just stop there - it’ll drive up prices of all gaming consoles eventually. Especially when the stock of PC’s and consoles need the newer highly priced cards, chips and memory.
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I just got an ad to my email from a Chinese webshop I randomly use. They had a bargain for a 2000 W PSU supporting eight (8) graphics cards. Eight!!! And of course there was links to related products such as "Crypto Coin Open Air Mining Frame Rig Graphics Case For 6-8 GPU ETH BTC Ethereum". A further search using only the key words related to crypto mining revealed more cases, frames and PSU's. Crazy!
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Would someone explain in simple plain English, what crypto mining is? The following description turned up and makes very little sense in terms of what happens, why so much electricity is required, and why GPU vs CPU is needed.
Most cryptocoin mining is all about solving mathematical problems, which in turn act as raffle tickets.
Each problem solved is called a 'proof of work' result, and counts as one raffle ticket. Every time a predetermined quantity of proof-of-work results is generated, the system draws a raffle number, and one proof-of-work result is awarded a block of new cryptocoins.
Every miner who contributed to solving that particular block will get some kind of proportionate share of the rewards.
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All that computational power is just going to waste. They may as well be racing to find out who can add 2+2 the most times per second.
None of the math problems cryptocrazies are solving are useful in the real world. It is all arbitrary.
It is a massive waste of electricity and computational power.
Someone, somewhere has decided to make those worthless math problems have value in the form of coin. The more of those problems you solve or help solve, the more coin you get. It is all virtual until you decide to cash it in.
It is mind boggling to me it still exists, given the amount of electricity being wasted.
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@Max: As Skuzzy said, someone has decided to make some math problems have value in fictional money. Although meaningless, the calculations are very complex so solving one may take the efforts of several computers who then share the reward.
Why GPU? Well, a GPU is a computer by itself. Unlike a PC, it has much more processor cores to take care of the calculation of said math problems. So instead of the 16 cores of an AMD Ryzen you can use the 2560 cores of a GTX1080. As my previous post stated, you can have 8 of them in a single computer, juiced by a 2500W PSU!
As for how time consuming a computer calculation can be, decades ago I met a student in Chemistry who would have liked a more silent rig. His dual processor (!!! ultra high tech back then!!!) system could take several days to solve one single operation and the hum kept the guy awake in the small room he lived in.
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All that computational power is just going to waste. They may as well be racing to find out who can add 2+2 the most times per second.
None of the math problems cryptocrazies are solving are useful in the real world. It is all arbitrary.
It is a massive waste of electricity and computational power.
Someone, somewhere has decided to make those worthless math problems have value in the form of coin. The more of those problems you solve or help solve, the more coin you get. It is all virtual until you decide to cash it in.
It is mind boggling to me it still exists, given the amount of electricity being wasted.
I agree skuzzy. That is why the only currencies that will survive this boom are the ones which leverage computer resources for scientific problems/research. This crypto craze serves as a means to create the proper culture in which worldwide distributed systems which actually sell their hardware resources will exist in.
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It is all arbitrary.
Agreed, that's it in a nutshell.
The official party line for Bitcoin as I've understood it is that Bitcoin offers an effecient way to transfer value(money) over the internet via a decentralized network under a transparent and agreed upon set of rules.
It's all based on assumptions - that Bitcoin will have value based on it being used a a method of exchange, and that it is a "store of value". Bitcoin's utility as a store of value is therefore dependent on its utility of being a method of exchange...
While many Bitcoin and other crypto currency fans and defenders point out that the US petro-chem dollar isn't based on anything of real value anymore (the gold standard/etc), IMO the difference is that the world's banks have come to the decision of exactly WHAT is a store of value to them. They haven't given this blessing to Bitcoin, and they never, ever, will.
Pretty good explanation of cryptocurrency IMO here, I paraphrased and simplified it a bit, but there is more info there that is important, and it's interesting that the author despite pointing out all the negatives/assumptions about Bitcoin, still seems to portray it in a positive light.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/100314/why-do-bitcoins-have-value.asp
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When I said "simple" I was hoping for something more like this :devil
(https://s9.postimg.org/8jfa4cl7j/Lucy-van-pelt-1-.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Max, it amounts to throwing your money down a well, until it reaches the top and you can then draw some of your wealth out. However, if no one thinks the coins in the well are worth anything at the time you draw them out, then it's your loss. Think comic books, or coin collection. If you can't find a buyer, then you can't sell your collection. Except now with everyone running mining operations, it resembles a Ponzi scheme more than anything else. Initially each coin was relatively simple to mine, but now the massive miners can claim the majority of work and your little home operation only gets credit for 0.00000000000001% of each coin produced.
Good luck with that.
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That's the whole thing. About 1,000 miners control over 90% of the cryptocrazy market. These miners have tens of thousands of systems mining for them. They work together to 'pump and dump' cryptocurrency. In any other form of investment, what they are doing would be illegal, but almost nothing is illegal with the cryptocrazies.
The scary part is they are trying to get this to be the defacto standard in monetary exchange for the Internet. What is really driving this is criminals need a transparent way to move money around which is difficult to trace. That is the one thing which will keep it alive, no matter what.
Regulating it is going to be difficult because it is a moving target with no tangible value. Taxing it is even more difficult because it has been designed to be difficult to trace what is really going on.
The big players are now using train cars for mobile data centers so they can move them when the electric rates go up in an area. Leaving behind increased rates for everyone. Neat, huh?
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That's the whole thing. About 1,000 miners control over 90% of the cryptocrazy market. These miners have tens of thousands of systems mining for them. They work together to 'pump and dump' cryptocurrency. In any other form of investment, what they are doing would be illegal, but almost nothing is illegal with the cryptocrazies.
The scary part is they are trying to get this to be the defacto standard in monetary exchange for the Internet. What is really driving this is criminals need a transparent way to move money around which is difficult to trace. That is the one thing which will keep it alive, no matter what.
Regulating it is going to be difficult because it is a moving target with no tangible value. Taxing it is even more difficult because it has been designed to be difficult to trace what is really going on.
The big players are now using train cars for mobile data centers so they can move them when the electric rates go up in an area. Leaving behind increased rates for everyone. Neat, huh?
...of course, we're not even going to touch the fact that most web/hacking criminal element all deal and work with Bitcoins...and that most money laundering now can be washed with them as well...
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The only reason youtube took off so much was because it was full of illigal content. Its a repeatable pattern.
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The big players are now using train cars for mobile data centers so they can move them when the electric rates go up in an area. Leaving behind increased rates for everyone. Neat, huh?
I'm a firm believer in karma and generally don't like to see anyone fail or fall. That said, I'm growing a desire to see these miners go belly up.
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I'm a firm believer in karma and generally don't like to see anyone fail or fall. That said, I'm growing a desire to see these miners go belly up.
I am not sure if this is an accurate description, but some of us dislike the excess of others because we know it will directly affect the environment around us. The other side will just label it as jealousy, but unchecked greed tends to strip local ecosystems. I wonder if there is a genetic precedence for the first response.
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I still don't understand exactly how any of this is monetized at all, unless somehow someone like the NSA or CIA has setup some sort of SETI@home site to break iPhone encryption, but even then why not hijack a system to do it, and again, why and how is it worth anything. :bhead
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The value of anything is based on agreements, supply and demand, and rarity. As long as someone is willing to pay "real" money for results of calculations it's worth something. Does it cover the expenses is another thing. Not every gold digger in Klondike came back rich...
A hundred dollar bill isn't more valuable than an IOU for $100 carved on birch-bark just because it's been printed in a note printing press. Both are based on an agreement. On a desert island the piece of bark would be more valuable since it burns better as a kindling.
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This exists primarily to support money exchanges in illegal operations (bribes, slavery, weapons...). It allows crime to operate at a wider level than before by making it easier to launder money for everyone.
With the added benefit of increasing in price, like an investment would, due to all the cryptocrazies who see it as a way to make a buck for doing virtually nothing.
The insanity is just getting started. Cryptocurrencies are popping up everywhere. Even Steven Seagal has his own cryptocurrency. People are getting stripped on their life savings over this. Saturating their credit limits and putting it in into mining only to find out they cannot make enough to cover the interest of the debt, much less pay the principal.
Now we have all manner of apps for mobile devices pretending to be one thing while they are nothing more than mining software. WEB sites which are using browsers to mine. Cloud systems being used for mining. The entire Internet is being overrun by it.
It is going to be difficult to get rid of or even regulate. Greed. People see a way to make free money and are not interested in seeing it get regulated. The scammers are doing well. They continue to start fake cryptocurrencies and then abscond with the cash people put into it. Seem to be getting away with it as well.
This is going to be a long storm.
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Similar to the gold rushes in the past.
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That's the whole thing. About 1,000 miners control over 90% of the cryptocrazy market. These miners have tens of thousands of systems mining for them. They work together to 'pump and dump' cryptocurrency. In any other form of investment, what they are doing would be illegal, but almost nothing is illegal with the cryptocrazies.
The scary part is they are trying to get this to be the defacto standard in monetary exchange for the Internet. What is really driving this is criminals need a transparent way to move money around which is difficult to trace. That is the one thing which will keep it alive, no matter what.
Heh, the real life "Wolf of Wall Street" Jordan Belfort did an interview recently where he said those 1000 people you're talking about are doing what he did using phones and brokers, only writ large with tech and the internet. He said if he came along now instead of the 80s/90s he'd be doing precisely what they're doing. I'll find the article and link it later, pretty interesting to get his perspective on it, him being a past, (and current according to many) commerce criminal.
A friend of mine I took poker courses from long ago, is well known in the poker and crypto world now (Doug Polk), and has friends that play in China/Hk/Macau in a lot of high stakes games, and he's said that Bitcoin and other crypto currencies are very popular in China as the users of it can more freely move their $ around without the Chinese central gov stopping them. They can also "get their $" out of China this was easier too. No wonder such a large % of the 1000 big Bitcoin controllers are from China.
The pump and dump isn't just on their scale, there are TONS of people who organize it on a small scale and strike when micro trends happen due to their criminal BS.
Video regarding what's happening out there - scary when you consider what the large scale Bitcoiners are capable of - totally at their mercy. i made some $ myself in Crypto, primarily because I bought some to purchase stuff with back in 2012, and the leftover coins which I had no purpose for just sat on my thumbdrive and increased in value to the point where selling them paid for some PCs and stuff. I'm out now completely, and would never risk investing ANY of our portfolio in it right now. IMO it's only a matter of time until the government steps up regulations and restrictions. Revenue Canada up here has already really stepped on the gas about it, and forcing everyone who has transacted in any way at all, even just exchanging $ for crypto for the purposes of legit purchases, of which there are many, report these transactions on this year's tax filings.
Similar to the gold rushes in the past.
It truly is, it's the Wild West too, anyone and everyone can created a new "Coin", and it's a complete free for all with all kinds of cowboy like activity re the pump/dumps and every other scam out there. I still astonishes me that enough people have bought into this, and that so many consider it a legitimate store of value and method of transacting online. Skuzzy is right, there is a push from those involved to make it the "gold standard" of online tx, but IMO that's where they're going to meet resistance, and then push back from not just the government, but more importantly the world banking establishment and corporations, which are far more capable IMO of doing something about it.