Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: bangsbox on March 13, 2018, 02:03:57 PM

Title: sweet pics of a dmg spit via 20mm hits from a 109
Post by: bangsbox on March 13, 2018, 02:03:57 PM

https://imgur.com/a/GrRxX (https://imgur.com/a/GrRxX)

Title: Re: sweet pics of a dmg spit via 20mm hits from a 109
Post by: bangsbox on March 13, 2018, 02:06:49 PM

the fragment dmg on the reverse side of spit was shocking to me

Title: Re: sweet pics of a dmg spit via 20mm hits from a 109
Post by: Mister Fork on March 14, 2018, 01:40:23 PM

Quote from: bangsbox on March 13, 2018, 02:06:49 PM

the fragment dmg on the reverse side of spit was shocking to me

Yeah, no kidding.  I'm surprised it didn't sever and/or damage the flight controls lines back to the rudder and elevator. In retrospect - those three shells should of severed the tail off.  It must of been a cross-intercept distant shot - meaning the 109 was probably 600-800 yards out when he fired his 20mm cannons (or farther).

(https://i.imgur.com/twjSRG6.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BzJxvZd.jpg)

Title: Re: sweet pics of a dmg spit via 20mm hits from a 109
Post by: Brooke on March 17, 2018, 12:37:45 AM

I think it'll buff out.

Title: Re: sweet pics of a dmg spit via 20mm hits from a 109
Post by: save on March 20, 2018, 04:49:46 AM

Probably a  Minengeschoss from a 20mm FF cannon, by the look of all shrapnel on the far side.

Title: Re: sweet pics of a dmg spit via 20mm hits from a 109
Post by: morfiend on March 20, 2018, 04:08:30 PM

If you read the reports you will see that they mention 260 pieces of shrapnel between 5mg and 50 mg traveling around 400 to 600 meters per second!


  Looks about right!




    :salute

Title: Re: sweet pics of a dmg spit via 20mm hits from a 109
Post by: Mister Fork on March 20, 2018, 05:14:31 PM

Ok - if the report states the round impacts were at near barrel velocity for a MG-FF cannon (used by early 109's),  then it was a glance intercept at fairly close range -- and the Spitfire was moving! So a side-intercept shot then.

Title: Re: sweet pics of a dmg spit via 20mm hits from a 109
Post by: Guppy35 on April 01, 2018, 12:54:38 AM

602 Squadron Spit of F/L Dunlop Urie.  Had an operational career of about an hour.  Never had time to get squadron codes painted on or the guns harmonized as they scrambled on August 18, 1940 and he was shot up by a 109. Urie was wounded as well.  They claimed 6 Stukas however

Title: Re: sweet pics of a dmg spit via 20mm hits from a 109
Post by: bustr on April 02, 2018, 04:19:26 PM

Guppy,

You ever run across anything about testing what happens to steal braid versus rods with ordinance tests? You would think something so important for combat would be chosen after testing for survive ability. Are those early spit cables stainless steel or industrial mild steel braid? That panel hanging down along with the slightly ruptured skin panel is probably why the pressure blast waves didn't do more damage to the overall structural integrity while projecting the shrapnel. Remember back to that film of a 30mm against a spitfire wing and how the blast rolled up the skin? There was no place else for the blast wave to go in that tiny enclosed wing space.

Title: Re: sweet pics of a dmg spit via 20mm hits from a 109
Post by: DaveBB on April 03, 2018, 03:00:48 PM

Did early model Spitfires use stressed aluminum skin?

Title: Re: sweet pics of a dmg spit via 20mm hits from a 109
Post by: Guppy35 on April 03, 2018, 06:52:25 PM

Posted these long time ago.  Spit was tougher than they give it credit for :)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Damage1.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Damage1.jpg.html)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/damage2.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/damage2.jpg.html)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/damage3.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/damage3.jpg.html)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/damage4.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/damage4.jpg.html)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/damage5.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/damage5.jpg.html)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Damage8.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Damage8.jpg.html)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/damage9.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/damage9.jpg.html)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/damage10.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/damage10.jpg.html)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/damage12.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/damage12.jpg.html)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Harding.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Harding.jpg.html)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Damage6.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Damage6.jpg.html)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Damage7.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Damage7.jpg.html)

Title: Re: sweet pics of a dmg spit via 20mm hits from a 109
Post by: MiloMorai on April 05, 2018, 07:15:18 AM

X4110
Ia
997
EA
MIII
FF 7-8-40 9MU 9-8-40 602S 16-8-40 shot down by Bf109 over Solent F/Lt Urie abandoned aircraft injured 18-8-40 Cunliffe-Owen SOC 5-10-40

http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p014.html

Photos says wasn't shot down. ;)

Title: Re: sweet pics of a dmg spit via 20mm hits from a 109
Post by: morfiend on April 05, 2018, 02:35:46 PM

Quote from: Mister Fork on March 20, 2018, 05:14:31 PM

Ok - if the report states the round impacts were at near barrel velocity for a MG-FF cannon (used by early 109's),  then it was a glance intercept at fairly close range -- and the Spitfire was moving! So a side-intercept shot then.

  I believe the velocities stated for the shrapnel are after the explosion and not related to the MV.



    :salute