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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Mickey1992 on April 03, 2018, 08:19:28 AM

Title: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Mickey1992 on April 03, 2018, 08:19:28 AM
Sad.  Do taildraggers frequently prefer grass over pavement?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz07Q5Etyjc
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: colmbo on April 03, 2018, 09:45:11 AM
Ground handling is more forgiving on grass.  If you touch down a bit sideways you slide on grass, on pavement the tires grip and can lead to a ground loop.

I'm guessing the grass area next to the runway was intended as a landing area....makes me wonder why in the heck they had equipment parked that close.
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 03, 2018, 10:46:09 AM
When you said crash my brain feared far worse. 

It'll fly again. 
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Wolfala on April 03, 2018, 01:30:58 PM
Close encounter with a stationary Combine......comeon. We know half of these guys couldn't fly their way out of a paper bag, but why reinforce the truth.
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: ghi on April 03, 2018, 04:57:36 PM
What a violent ground loop :pray dangerous for spine.
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Brooke on April 03, 2018, 06:44:54 PM
Man, that sucks.

The pilot might not have been able to see the equipment, with the plane's nose up.
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: hgtonyvi on April 04, 2018, 10:27:46 AM
Man, that sucks.

The pilot might not have been able to see the equipment, with the plane's nose up.
good point
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Zimme83 on April 04, 2018, 10:35:11 AM
He should have seen it before he landed, but it seems like he veers off to the right after touchdown and thats why he strikes the equipment. But its hard to tell how far from the grass strip they where parked.
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: colmbo on April 04, 2018, 11:24:38 AM
He should have seen it before he landed, but it seems like he veers off to the right after touchdown and thats why he strikes the equipment. But its hard to tell how far from the grass strip they where parked.

Within a wingspan it seems.  :devil
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: colmbo on April 04, 2018, 11:32:24 AM
That equipment was too close. It being there just increases risk even for aircraft operation on the paved runway.  Should an aircraft have a problem which causes it to depart the runway obstacles become an issue. 

In the US there are clear zone requirements depending on the class of airport.

But then I've landed on unimproved strips where my wing tips were bending down the brush along either side of the "runway". :)
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: hgtonyvi on April 04, 2018, 11:53:02 AM
I Think he landed with to much speed and had no rudder control on the ground with that speed. He was prolly paranoid and didn't want to push down on the nose to gain rudder control to steer left at the speed he was going. Prolly thought he would end up in a 360 on the ground and with all the thinking that was going on in his head he just didn't know what to do.
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 04, 2018, 12:01:23 PM
That equipment was too close. It being there just increases risk even for aircraft operation on the paved runway.  Should an aircraft have a problem which causes it to depart the runway obstacles become an issue. 

In the US there are clear zone requirements depending on the class of airport.

But then I've landed on unimproved strips where my wing tips were bending down the brush along either side of the "runway". :)

I agree.  That equipment had no business in the landing/rollout area.
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 04, 2018, 12:01:56 PM
I Think he landed with to much speed and had no rudder control on the ground with that speed. He was prolly paranoid and didn't want to push down on the nose to gain rudder control to steer left at the speed he was going. Prolly thought he would end up in a 360 on the ground and with all the thinking that was going on in his head he just didn't know what to do.

He was not too fast.  If anything, being slow would have hurt rudder effectiveness a lot more.
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: hgtonyvi on April 04, 2018, 03:42:54 PM
Well he must of had to much vodka
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vulcan on April 04, 2018, 03:47:08 PM
Close encounter with a stationary Combine......comeon. We know half of these guys couldn't fly their way out of a paper bag, but why reinforce the truth.

it's a cherry picker, with a photographer in it. It was not supposed to be anywhere near there.
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: OldNitro on April 04, 2018, 04:34:08 PM
Oh man, that is TRAJIK :cry
An idiot could see that equipment..

I suspect an insurance scam!
The NKVD would MAKE HIM CONFESS!

 :D
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: colmbo on April 04, 2018, 05:12:10 PM
I Think he landed with to much speed and had no rudder control on the ground with that speed. He was prolly paranoid and didn't want to push down on the nose to gain rudder control to steer left at the speed he was going. Prolly thought he would end up in a 360 on the ground and with all the thinking that was going on in his head he just didn't know what to do.

It seems that you may have a limited understanding of how to control an airplane.


More speed equates to greater control authority.

You can tell he wasn't too fast since he was nose high and settled to the ground vs the typical Aces High player landing of driving the airplane onto the ground.

Pushing the nose down will help you see over the nose but doesn't really do anything to allow you to "gain rudder control".  Many tail draggers can have a reduction if rudder control as the tail drops due to the wing/fuselage blanking out flow over the rudder.  Quite often you want to fly the tail down at an appropriate speed to get the tail wheel on the ground to aid in directional control as the airplane slows.

I never met a good pilot that wasn't thinking about the "what ifs" but doing so doesn't interfere with decision making.
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 04, 2018, 05:19:37 PM
Well he must of had to much vodka

 :rofl :aok
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: colmbo on April 04, 2018, 06:09:58 PM

An idiot could see that equipment..



Have a lot of time in a Yak-3 do you?
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 04, 2018, 08:28:19 PM
Have a lot of time in a Yak-3 do you?

Burn.   :rofl
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: OldNitro on April 05, 2018, 06:14:22 AM
Have a lot of time in a Yak-3 do you?

Pilots are responsible for safely landing the plane, right???
Then an idiot is sitting in the seat of that wrecked plane..

He had the birds eye view, and hands on the controls..
He could just as easily, picked a safer line, but he didn't!

And YES, he should have seen that equipment, too close
to the landing area, before he even touched down..
Plenty of room to port, no need to play thread the needle!

And he throws a thumbs up, after his total foolishness,  :rofl

Don't need any time in type, to notice the flamingly obvious!
Now somebody has a nice fat insurance claim.. I hope!
At least nobody died!

We need a Facepalm emoticon!

Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: colmbo on April 05, 2018, 08:34:15 AM
A lot of assumptions.

Birds eye view?  You've never sat in an old taildragger it seems.

I'm guessing he was aware of the equipment.  He might have been uncomfortable with the proximity of the equipment to the landing area but elected to "go on with the show".  You point out that he had room to the left but from the pilots viewpoint that can be very difficult to determine.  You can't see straight ahead and have to use the views to either side to judge how "centered" you are.  Next time you're out driving raise the hood on your car and drive using the views out of your side windows the expound on how easy it is. :)

Of course he did a thumbs up, he was letting others know that he was okay.

Without time in type what seem obvious may not be and there may be many other factors you need flight experience to be aware of.

No doubt some poor decisions were made.  Silly to have that equipment parked there.  Without being there I'm not going to point fingers.
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: OldNitro on April 05, 2018, 08:42:26 AM
So, I guess he was too blind to see the landing area, BEFORE he flared out???

I personally, would take notice of this, before committing to that course of action  :joystick:
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: save on April 05, 2018, 09:16:53 AM
An AH3 Yak3  would ruin that obstacle and it would only be in need for a small paintjob.  :D


 
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Zimme83 on April 05, 2018, 09:33:44 AM
Within a wingspan it seems.  :devil

Half a wingspan  :old:
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 05, 2018, 10:04:23 AM
So, I guess he was too blind to see the landing area, BEFORE he flared out???

I personally, would take notice of this, before committing to that course of action  :joystick:

You go show us how it's done.  We'll wait. 
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Puma44 on April 05, 2018, 10:15:35 AM
So, I guess he was too blind to see the landing area, BEFORE he flared out???

I personally, would take notice of this, before committing to that course of action  :joystick:

Perhaps you should get an hour of flight time in the real thing.  Stallion51 in Florida will give you a real life exposure to the P-51.  The very limited forward visibility on the ground in the three point attitude is impressive.  Go do that and report your impressions back to us.  Enjoy the flight!  You’ll never regret doing it. 
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: OldNitro on April 05, 2018, 10:36:53 AM
You go show us how it's done.  We'll wait.

LOL, what you think doesn't matter, I'm not seeking your approval..

I've made thousands of quick decisions with my and others lives hanging in the balance.. I gimp when the weather changes, and bear the scars, from my or others errors too.. "Stuff" happens when ya throw a bike sideways at 100+ mph, and others are inches away!

That's how it is when ya race TT and Flat track for most of a lifetime.. I have a collection of twisted handlebars, and helmets with tire tracks on the wall of my workshop..

I spent some time in Texas when in the US Army, back in the 70's.. Went to Harlingen to visit the Confederate Airforce.. Paid for a ride in one of the Peruvian P47N's they had there.. I've had that experience already..

Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: 100Coogn on April 05, 2018, 10:51:27 AM
LOL, what you think doesn't matter, I'm not seeking your approval..

I've made thousands of quick decisions with my and others lives hanging in the balance.. I gimp when the weather changes, and bear the scars, from my or others errors too.. "Stuff" happens when ya throw a bike sideways at 100+ mph, and others are inches away!

That's how it is when ya race TT and Flat track for most of a lifetime.. I have a collection of twisted handlebars, and helmets with tire tracks on the wall of my workshop..

I spent some time in Texas when in the US Army, back in the 70's.. Went to Harlingen to visit the Confederate Airforce.. Paid for a ride in one of the Peruvian P47N's they had there.. I've had that experience already..

Perhaps you just need a little more practice.  :)

Coogan
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: OldNitro on April 05, 2018, 10:55:01 AM
Perhaps you just need a little more practice.  :)

Coogan

Hell man, if you ain't at risk of crashing, then you ain't going fast enough! :cheers:
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: 100Coogn on April 05, 2018, 10:58:42 AM
Hell man, if you ain't at risk of crashing, then you ain't going fast enough! :cheers:

 :rofl

Coogan  :cheers:

Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Skuzzy on April 05, 2018, 11:46:30 AM
Hell man, if you ain't at risk of crashing, then you ain't going fast enough! :cheers:

But on a motorcycle, you are at that risk as soon as the kick stand is up and the clutch is out. :)
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 05, 2018, 12:22:24 PM
LOL, what you think doesn't matter, I'm not seeking your approval..


I do not recall offering it.


Quote
I've made thousands of quick decisions with my and others lives hanging in the balance..

Something I do several times a day.



Quote
I gimp when the weather changes, and bear the scars, from my or others errors too.. "Stuff" happens when ya throw a bike sideways at 100+ mph, and others are inches away!

That's how it is when ya race TT and Flat track for most of a lifetime.. I have a collection of twisted handlebars, and helmets with tire tracks on the wall of my workshop..

I spent some time in Texas when in the US Army, back in the 70's.. Went to Harlingen to visit the Confederate Airforce.. Paid for a ride in one of the Peruvian P47N's they had there.. I've had that experience already..

I spent twenty years in Harlingen with the CAF.   I don't recall the N having a second seat even back then.  There was only one and it came from Nicaragua in 1963—after Lloyd Nolen purchased it—with a victory over a P-51 to its credit...the rest were Ds.    A buddy of mine (Ed Jurist) was nearly poisoned trying to get those Jugs out of SA.  Quite a story.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/890/41073100321_1717c2cabe_o.jpg)

Your motorcycle experience translates into roughly........zero hours PIC in warbirds.    Bikes are easy.


I spent lot six of time in and around this airplane.   A second seat?   That would be a feat.   Never saw one when I was around it. 

(http://www.aerialvisuals.ca/Airframe/Gallery/0/54/0000054733.jpg)

(http://www.aerialvisuals.ca/Airframe/Gallery/0/44/0000044251.jpg)

(http://www.aerialvisuals.ca/Airframe/Gallery/0/22/0000022282.jpg)
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: OldNitro on April 05, 2018, 01:11:13 PM
But on a motorcycle, you are at that risk as soon as the kick stand is up and the clutch is out. :)

One of my worst injuries came when I was messin around on my grandsons Rupp minibike.. Drunk on Memorial day, backyard BBQ hijinks.. Vintage Rupp, 5hp Tecumseh with the governor wired open, non folding footpegs.. Well, my big 11.5" foot folded under instead, tore my ankle all to hell..

Goin about 25mph..  :rofl
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: OldNitro on April 05, 2018, 01:16:01 PM
I do not recall offering it.


Something I do several times a day.



I spent twenty years in Harlingen with the CAF.   I don't recall the N having a second seat even back then.  There was only one and it came from Nicaragua in 1963—after Lloyd Nolen purchased it—with a victory over a P-51 to its credit...the rest were Ds.    A buddy of mine (Ed Jurist) was nearly poisoned trying to get those Jugs out of SA.  Quite a story.

Your motorcycle experience translates into roughly........zero hours PIC in warbirds.    Bikes are easy.


I spent lot six of time in and around this airplane.   A second seat?   That would be a feat.   Never saw one when I was around it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So it wasn't an N, OK.. It was one of a group of P47s, and it came from South America..
D???? OK, LOL! My memory was from Peru.. It was 40+ years ago..
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 05, 2018, 01:18:43 PM
The point is guys like Columbo and I are not noobs or idiots.  When we speak on these things there is a bit of knowledge/experience behind it. 

The Ds were from Peru as I recall. 
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: OldNitro on April 05, 2018, 01:30:43 PM
The point is guys like Columbo and I are not noobs or idiots.  When we speak on these things there is a bit of knowledge/experience behind it.

I never figured you were Noobs or Idiots.. Never said that about either of you..
Sheesh, Don't get so offended, too many people with thin skins these days..

I said the Yak driver was an idiot, for smashing that plywood wonder!
When there was plenty of room to the left, a whole open runway..

Was one of you, the Yak driver???? :rofl

Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 05, 2018, 01:31:49 PM
I never figured you were Noobs or Idiots.. Never said that about either of you..
Sheesh, Don't get so offended, too many people with thin skins these days..

I said the Yak driver was an idiot, for smashing that plywood wonder!
When there was plenty of room to the left, a whole open runway..

Was one of you, the Yak driver???? :rofl

And we explained to you why you are wrong—or at best, premature. 
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: OldNitro on April 05, 2018, 01:45:45 PM
And we explained to you why you are wrong—or at best, premature.

OK, but that doesn't change that fact that an Idiot wrecked that plane..

Oh, and bikes are easy???
I'll bet there are more people qualified to fly these WW2 fighters,
than there are AMA licensed experts, qualified to ride the mile!

Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 05, 2018, 02:51:56 PM
OK, but that doesn't change that fact that an Idiot wrecked that plane..

As they say on SWA, “Shift happens.”

Did this guy steal your lunch money as a kid or something?  Idiot this and idiot that.  :headscratch:

Quote
Oh, and bikes are easy???
I'll bet there are more people qualified to fly these WW2 fighters,
than there are AMA licensed experts, qualified to ride the mile!

I doubt it.   Irrelevant in any event as it correlates more to interest than difficulty. 
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vulcan on April 05, 2018, 03:13:09 PM
Was one of you, the Yak driver???? :rofl

Good Yak pilots only roll with the -9
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 05, 2018, 03:51:06 PM
Good Yak pilots only roll with the -9

There are no good Yak pilots.   :rofl
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 06, 2018, 08:37:34 AM
Perhaps you should get an hour of flight time in the real thing.  Stallion51 in Florida will give you a real life exposure to the P-51.  The very limited forward visibility on the ground in the three point attitude is impressive.  Go do that and report your impressions back to us.  Enjoy the flight!  You’ll never regret doing it.

Sorry I missed this post.  Puma knows of what he speaks. 

I really would love to take that course...   Some day...
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Puma44 on April 06, 2018, 09:29:07 AM
Sorry I missed this post.  Puma knows of what he speaks. 

I really would love to take that course...   Some day...

Go do the hour long orientation ride.  That will push you over the edge for sure.

They will let you fly the vast majority of the sortie.  Because of my previous taildragger experience, I was allowed to land it from the back seat. 
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: colmbo on April 06, 2018, 12:39:30 PM
Go do the hour long orientation ride.  That will push you over the edge for sure.

They will let you fly the vast majority of the sortie.  Because of my previous taildragger experience, I was allowed to land it from the back seat.

Lee allowed me to do a touch and go and then the full stop.....and I did not have any tailwheel time --- but I am one toejam hot pilot. :)
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Puma44 on April 06, 2018, 09:33:30 PM
Lee allowed me to do a touch and go and then the full stop.....and I did not have any tailwheel time --- but I am one toejam hot pilot. :)

Cool!  A fellow Crazyhorse aficionado!  And you were flying with the Yoda of Mustang pilots on the planet.  Well done.  :aok
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: colmbo on April 07, 2018, 12:53:30 PM
Cool!  A fellow Crazyhorse aficionado!  And you were flying with the Yoda of Mustang pilots on the planet.  Well done.  :aok

I would like to fly Crazy Horse again with Lee.  This time some of the awe would be worn off allowing me to learn more.
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Puma44 on April 07, 2018, 01:17:58 PM
I would like to fly Crazy Horse again with Lee.  This time some of the awe would be worn off allowing me to learn more.

I hear ya there.  I’d did the check out program awhile back.  It took a couple of rides for the giddiness and amazement to subside.  Flying it from the front seat was just plain WOW!
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 07, 2018, 03:07:22 PM
*Envy Rising*
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Puma44 on April 07, 2018, 04:07:24 PM
*Envy Rising*

I’m telling ya.  When, not if, you go do it, you’ll be kicking yourself for not doing it years earlier.  I speak from experience.
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 07, 2018, 04:46:09 PM
I’m telling ya.  When, not if, you go do it, you’ll be kicking yourself for not doing it years earlier.  I speak from experience.

I will be making that a priority soon.  You guys have twisted my arm enough.   :rofl
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Puma44 on April 07, 2018, 06:24:18 PM
Might as well get on it.  Your only gonna get a bad bruise waiting longer.  :rofl
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Vraciu on April 07, 2018, 07:25:19 PM
Might as well get on it.  Your only gonna get a bad bruise waiting longer.  :rofl

 :rofl  :aok
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Puma44 on April 09, 2018, 11:29:03 AM
Well?
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Mister Fork on April 09, 2018, 05:22:11 PM
How much is a ride on Crazy Horse?  I got a big birthday coming up soon.
Title: Re: Yak crash at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2018
Post by: Puma44 on April 10, 2018, 12:06:34 AM
How much is a ride on Crazy Horse?  I got a big birthday coming up soon.

Here’s the link to their website:  http://www.stallion51.com/

Call the contact number and talk with Kelly.  She will set you up.  Tell her Graduate #145 sent you.

Just do it!  You’ll never regret a penny you just spent.