Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DaveBB on April 13, 2018, 10:15:47 PM

Title: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: DaveBB on April 13, 2018, 10:15:47 PM
I'm just curious as to what kind of allied aircraft are attacking Damascus, Syria right now.  There are some great pictures of SAMs being launched (doubt they hit anything).  It is also pretty coincidental the Russian fleet left Syria one day before this airstrike.
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: Gman on April 13, 2018, 10:24:44 PM
B1Bs are the only thing I've read that's been confirmed, it's on various news outlets.  Probably everything in the inventory that's in range I'd wager.  Brit Tornados as well.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5770159672001/?#sp=show-clips
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: The Fugitive on April 13, 2018, 10:25:28 PM
YES! lets launch a political thread!  unbelievable!
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: ACE on April 13, 2018, 10:45:56 PM
We will probably know everything by 8am in the morning.
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: Vudu15 on April 14, 2018, 12:17:08 AM
YES! lets launch a political thread!  unbelievable!

I thought it was about aircraft bombing things....
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: 1stpar3 on April 14, 2018, 01:24:52 AM
 :rofl Hope no one gets HO'ed,that would really upset him :uhoh
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: Gman on April 14, 2018, 01:51:41 AM
Quote
I thought it was about aircraft bombing things....

Same.  How is it any different than asking about what kind of planes Japan used to bomb Pearl - asking WHY Japan attacked Pearl would be political, asking what they did it with, not so much.  If that's the standard of a #rule politics, there would be no forum, and no game at all.

Of course, the odds of such threads drifting into politics is about 99%, but it hasn't so far.  I give 5/6 odds by page 2...
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: Zimme83 on April 14, 2018, 04:50:40 AM
Only seen reports of B-1 plus Tornado, Mirage and Rafale along with 120 ish tomahawks.
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: DaveBB on April 14, 2018, 04:51:06 AM
YES! lets launch a political thread!  unbelievable!

Calm down. I'm simply interested in the aircraft used.  Also, no backseat moderating.

So I assume the B-1bs were used as standoff platforms for cruise missiles.  I know spare parts for these planes have been hard to come by.  While a lot of news was reporting that at least one U.S. carrier was off the coast, I know the Navy really doesn't have aircraft capable of penetrating enemy air defenses on day 1 of an attack.

Anyone know if F-22 squadrons were in the area?  Is the F-35 in combat status yet?

I noticed I had been seeing a lot of transient military aircraft in the weeks leading up to this at my local airport. 
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: zack1234 on April 14, 2018, 04:53:25 AM
WarWarWar!
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: DaveBB on April 14, 2018, 06:19:30 AM
So far I've seen

U.S: B-1B
UK: Tornados and Typhoons
France: Mirages and Rafales

Ships:
US: Guided Missile Cruiser
France: Cruise Missile Frigate
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: MiloMorai on April 14, 2018, 06:40:23 AM
How many claims of shoot downs?
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: Zimme83 on April 14, 2018, 06:55:55 AM
According to the Syrians where almost all missiles shot down by their mighty air defense, nothing really support that though. The russians did nothing as the strikes occurred outside "their area of responsibility for the air defense".
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: Wolfala on April 14, 2018, 07:53:50 AM
Here's an interesting view on operation lights out. Where he lights go out.


Footage appears to show missiles and explosions in the Syrian capital Damascus causing power outage

https://www.thesun.co.uk/video/news/footage-appears-to-show-missiles-and-explosions-in-the-syrian-capital-damascus-causing-power-outage/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/video/news/footage-appears-to-show-missiles-and-explosions-in-the-syrian-capital-damascus-causing-power-outage/)
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: nooby52 on April 14, 2018, 08:06:04 AM
INteresting thread. :salute
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: DaveBB on April 14, 2018, 08:13:14 AM
Typhoons were used too.

Syrian air defences must not have been very strong or SEAD aircraft would have already destroyed those SAM sites.
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: Zimme83 on April 14, 2018, 08:42:47 AM
All missiles where fired from outside the range of the air defense. Seems like the Syrians fired ~40 SAM:s of various types but most of them where fired after the strike and did not threatened or hit anything.

The syrians seems to have quite a lot of soviet era SAM:s (SA-2, SA-3,SA-5, SA-6 etc), which are largely ineffective against modern missiles and fighters.
They also have some newer SA-11 (BUK) batteries.

While having enough batteries to make it dangerous, as we saw during the israeli strike, I doubt that they would be capable of defending the air space if they faced a full scale attack. There would be losses among the attackers but it wouldnt be nearly enough.
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: Spikes on April 14, 2018, 11:08:00 AM
YES! lets launch a political thread!  unbelievable!
Only if you make it political.
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: Vraciu on April 14, 2018, 11:08:06 AM
YES! lets launch a political thread!  unbelievable!

You okay, bruh?

Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: DaveBB on April 14, 2018, 11:18:07 AM
These Syrian missiles are hitting something.  You can see them tracking and exploding.  Some are high, some are pretty low to the ground.  A couple appear to have been shot ballistically.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9gZF6_1523707828

At 2:44 it looks like a jet got hit.
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: Gman on April 14, 2018, 12:15:37 PM
Difficult to say what the SAMS are actually hitting - pretty standard for the USAF/USN/USMC to use "bait" to stimulate the air defenses and make them focus on cheap drones/cruise systems, which makes the SAM systems engage unimportant targets, waste ammunition on them, as well as helps overwhelm the human element in the kill chain.  So, while it's certainly possible that the newer stuff like the S300 and S400 variants in Syria, and other newer Buk systems, can perhaps take out the "new and smart" (haha) cruise missiles in certain parts of their flight profile, IMO it's more likely that the intercepts caught on video are mostly the SAM systems taking out targets that were sent to be taken out by SAMS intentionally. 

The SAMS can also be command detonated, at least the S300/400 can, and some of the explosions in the sky can be the system or operator doing that for various reasons.

edit - most of the explosions/possible intercepts I've seen video of look to be at 2000ft AGL or even higher. Low altitude is still something that even stealthy cruise missiles will probably be taking advantage of, which makes me think that the stuff up higher (not NOE) is even more likely to be bait intentionally placed there. 

edit2 - detailed briefing on the platforms and missiles used, and the general giving it claims no missiles were intercepted by Syrian defenses.

Combination of JASSM, Tomahawk, Scalp, and Storm Shadow missiles from the USN, USAF, RAF and French Air Force.  USS Monterey(Tico class), USS Laboon(Burke), USS Higgens(Burke), Languedoc (French Navy/Scalp), USS John Warner (Virginia class, two B1B, Tornado/Typhoon, Rafale/Mirage.  No friendly losses reported, and again, claims that all missiles reached their targets.  Also stated was Syria fired over 40 SAMS, and most were fired after the last incoming cruise missile had already reached its target.
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: TyFoo on April 14, 2018, 01:11:25 PM


I know the Navy really doesn't have aircraft capable of penetrating enemy air defenses on day 1 of an attack.


I am curious as to what makes you say that?
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: Vraciu on April 14, 2018, 04:57:51 PM
I am curious as to what makes you say that?

He’s probably referring to a Tier 1 Air defenses.  The Super Hornet’s ability to penetrate denial of access areas is approaching obsolescence.
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: zack1234 on April 15, 2018, 04:49:19 AM
How many claims of shoot downs?

Its in the stats, i shot down a 109 yesterday :old:
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: DaveBB on April 15, 2018, 11:37:06 AM
I am curious as to what makes you say that?

What are the things you want when you penetrate enemy airspace?
- To be in enemy airspace for the shortest amount of time possible (speed)
- To show up on enemy radar for the least amount of time or not at all (low observability)
- To have support aircraft as far from enemy defenses as possible (range)
- To be able able to counter enemy air defenses if detected (electronic warfare, jamming, air to air)

The Air Force has the best combination for this: B-1bs, F-22s, and B-2s.  Especially with the B-1b. A bomber doing almost mach 1 at a couple hundred feet while using terrain following radar with it's own onboard electronic warfare officer.  Tanker before you go in and tanker after you get out.  Low, fast, hard to detect, capable of jamming, hard to intercept.  The old F-111 was very good at this too.

The Navy has a highly observable, short ranged, relatively slow multi-purpose fighter.  Sure, they have tanker and electronic warfare versions of the F/A-18, but relative to land based aircraft they just aren't as good.

All my opinions are presented as an amateur.  Take it with a grain of salt. 
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: icepac on April 15, 2018, 11:41:39 AM
Regardless of missile shootdown claims, the targets were destroyed.
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: DaveBB on April 15, 2018, 12:13:21 PM
What were the targets specifically? We saw the power go off.  That's about the only objective evidence we have.
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: Zimme83 on April 15, 2018, 01:15:09 PM
A chemical weapons factory and some command centers it seems, but I doubt that any real damage was done since they where probably already empty.
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: MiloMorai on April 15, 2018, 03:21:36 PM
A Russian on another board (Tanknet) claims 7 of 30 missiles shot down attacking the chem place. Other missiles shot down attacking other targets.
Me thinks he is drinking some of that special juice.

"Strike lay down from Pentagon - 107 missiles (though Dunford added this to 105)

From the Red Sea
Ticonderoga Cruiser Monterey - 32 TLAM
Arleigh Burke destroyer Laboon – 7 TLAM

North Arabian Gulf
Burke-class destroyer Higgins - 23 TLAM

Eastern Med
French FFG (Aquitaine) - 3 MdCN Naval version of Scalp
Virginia-class SSN John Warner - 6 TLAM

Airpower
2x B-1B lancer bombers fired 19 JASSM-ER missiles
British Tornados and Typhoons 4x fired 8 Stormshadow ALCMs
French combination of Rafales and Mirages fired 9 SCALP ALCMs

Variety of defensive counter air, tanker, and electronic attack aircraft involved. No successful Syrian air defense engagement, and no indication Russian air defenses were engaged.
Syria fired 40 SAMs, but they were fired long after cruise missiles struck, and on a ballistic trajectory without guidance. Basically shooting blind."
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: ACE on April 15, 2018, 09:06:52 PM
Sooooo basically Russia just was bluffing when they claimed if we engaged there would be consequences. Figured that.
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: Nefarious on April 15, 2018, 09:09:16 PM
Sooooo basically Russia just was bluffing when they claimed if we engaged there would be consequences. Figured that.

If I was Putin I would have rolled a couple Armored divisions into Ukraine on Saturday morning. I wonder what the ground conditions are there this time of year?
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: TequilaChaser on April 16, 2018, 12:06:50 AM
DaveBB, the US Navy has the -18 Growler which replaced the old EA-6 prowlers and they have been providing/have provided ground-to-air missle defense radar jamming for all the USN/USMC/USAF bombers/attackers for a while now...

Their first live combat test against an enemy was several years ago when 2 growlers were used to jam the g-to-a Sam sites going in to Lybia... So some f-16's, f-18s and iirc some F-22s fly in take out some ordanace depots....
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: ghi on April 16, 2018, 08:55:24 PM
YES! lets launch a political thread!  unbelievable!

 Fugitive,  i would love to see rule 14 relaxed as long we keep it polite without personal attacks; in the beginning this place was amazing very informative,it had worthed 15$/month on top of game fee. 
Title: Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
Post by: icepac on April 17, 2018, 07:39:22 PM
Claiming a  non-political post is political is politicizing in itself.