Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Lusche on April 30, 2018, 05:01:34 AM

Title: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Lusche on April 30, 2018, 05:01:34 AM
Especially as big and quick changes in anything are usually quite rare in AH...


(https://i.imgur.com/x1ojpvL.png)

("Vehicle Damage Points" is damage inflicted on objects by vehicles)
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Max on April 30, 2018, 06:46:02 AM
So what happened aroun tour 200?
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Bruv119 on April 30, 2018, 07:05:23 AM
m4 rockets?
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Lusche on April 30, 2018, 07:54:39 AM
m4 rockets?

We have them since tour 124.

So what happened aroun tour 200?


AH III
Buzzsaw

Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Max on April 30, 2018, 08:35:53 AM
Well that clears it up. Probably the GV spawns at strats that account for the damage spikes. Good find Snailman  :cheers:
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: hitech on April 30, 2018, 10:25:44 AM
Scratching head what would cause average damage per sortie could change.  Obviously it is at the start of AH 3.0.
One would think that the average would stay constant because for each kill normally there is a death.

The only things I can think of that would make is rise, is less people exiting vehicles with out getting killed or getting a kill.

Any other thoughts?

HiTech
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Ciaphas on April 30, 2018, 10:32:38 AM
Might run parallel with general GV optimizations implemented over a wide period with the effects of the optimizations not be no noticeable until GV players figured out the “how’s” of the GV game?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Wiley on April 30, 2018, 10:33:52 AM
I think Max has it.  GVs spawning into strats and having turkey shoots on Buzzsaw would seem a likely culprit to send average damage/sortie way up.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: hitech on April 30, 2018, 10:53:09 AM
I think Max has it.  GVs spawning into strats and having turkey shoots on Buzzsaw would seem a likely culprit to send average damage/sortie way up.

Wiley.

A turkey should should not change the stats, but shooting at more buildings would.

HiTech
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Wiley on April 30, 2018, 11:03:37 AM
A turkey should should not change the stats, but shooting at more buildings would.

HiTech

Ok, GV spawns into strats is more target-rich for buildings than pretty much any other situation one may find themselves in in the game.  They're also an attractive target.  When Buzzsaw was new, you saw tons of people spawning into the strats.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Max on April 30, 2018, 11:13:36 AM
When Buzzsaw was new, you saw tons of people spawning into the strats.

Wiley.

Still do. A fair number of players don't care for the map, thereby reducing air fights. GV'rs like the map cuz it provides quick action...and access to strats.
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Lusche on April 30, 2018, 11:29:32 AM
One would think that the average would stay constant because for each kill normally there is a death.

The only things I can think of that would make is rise, is less people exiting vehicles with out getting killed or getting a kill.

Any other thoughts?


There are more GV spawns to the strats
And there is Buzzsaw. Buzzsaw has GV spawns to enemy strats from the start. And when you play on that map, you will see all strats in reach flashing almost all of the time from GV. I would not be surprised if the amount of damage points generated on this map is ten or even twenty times higher than on other maps.
You also have relatively little defense against those strat killers. In my experience you can sit a long time there shooting buildings until a serious defender shows up. Which may have something to do with the fact that the strats are basically indefensible anyway. Most of the time it's more like "I shoot yours and you shoot mine".
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: BHawk51 on May 01, 2018, 05:44:46 AM
Are you able to exclude data points from certain maps?
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Lusche on May 01, 2018, 07:09:36 AM
Are you able to exclude data points from certain maps?

No, I can not do that.
Data like that above is taken from the player scores, after completion of a full tour.
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: 8thJinx on May 01, 2018, 09:23:47 AM
Maybe folks going to GV's until they upgraded their machines?  Example: a player has an older card that they couldn't fly effectively in, and stayed in GVs until they upgraded.  Just a wild guess.  Did the GV sortie count or time-in-GV go up as well?  Can you chart damage points / time-in-gv?
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: popeye on May 01, 2018, 09:25:06 AM
Do you have data on resupply?  I'm betting that time spent driving resupply also increases in Buzzsaw.
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Lusche on May 01, 2018, 09:26:09 AM
Just a wild guess.  Did the GV sortie count or time-in-GV go up as well? 

No.

Besides, it's not overall damage shown above but already damage per sortie.

Do you have data on resupply?

I just have the data that's available to everyone on the player score and player & plane stats pages.


I'm betting that time spent driving resupply also increases in Buzzsaw.

That's not unlikely, though I personally don't get the point of resupplying a factory that will  most likely be down again just a few minutes later ;)
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: 8thJinx on May 01, 2018, 09:27:52 AM
No, I can not do that.
Data like that above is taken from the player scores, after completion of a full tour.

How do you pull the score numbers for every player.  Is there a code for the player ID field, like '***', to get the score info on all the players at once?
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Lusche on May 01, 2018, 09:29:43 AM
How do you pull the score numbers for every player. 


Automation  :old:
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Mano on May 01, 2018, 09:30:16 AM
1. With the added foilage of AH3, more GV’s are able to  make it to a enemy town. Damage goes up.

2: The V bases. There are allot more tank battles right on the base because there are more places to hide, lots of hills, deep valleys, and objects like manned guns are used for cover. A tank battle on a V Base can last up to an hour. Damage goes up. The base gets wrecked.  :D

3. Easy access to strats in Buzzsaw yes, but it is nly one map.

 :old:

I like Buzzsaw. It is the most GV friendly of the maps in the current rotation. It forces everyone to defend their strats. There are awesome CV battles as well.
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Lusche on May 01, 2018, 09:34:50 AM

2: The V bases. There are allot more tank battles right on the base because there are more places to hide, lots of hills, deep valleys, and objects like manned guns are used for cover. A tank battle on a V Base can last up to an hour. Damage goes up. The base gets wrecked.

The damage that usually will be inflicted on a Vbase by Gv is minimal compared to a town or factory killing sortie.

3. Easy access to strats in Buzzsaw yes, but it is nly one map. .

But massively used for killing objects.

I like Buzzsaw. It is the most GV friendly of the maps in the current rotation. It forces everyone to defend their strats.

Au contraire. I largely stopped trying to defend  the strats, because it's utterly futile. I just use them occasionally for harvesting some cheap kills.
On the other hand, it's amazing for how long the enemy usually allows ME to whack their strats. Possible for the same reasons.
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: 8thJinx on May 01, 2018, 10:06:37 AM

Automation  :old:

I assume you're pulling data using excel?  What URL are you accessing.
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Lusche on May 01, 2018, 10:09:40 AM
I assume you're pulling data using excel? What URL are you accessing.

I wrote some tools in Python. I use the old score page

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/pilot.php
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: 8thJinx on May 01, 2018, 10:32:06 AM
I wrote some tools in Python. I use the old score page

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/pilot.php

That's beyond my skill set, unfortunately.  Can you chart damage points/time-in-GV for me? 
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: popeye on May 01, 2018, 10:32:33 AM
That's not unlikely, though I personally don't get the point of resupplying a factory that will  most likely be down again just a few minutes later ;)

Agreed.  However, sometimes it seems more productive to resupply a port or vbase that is deacked for 100 minutes, than to watch it or defend it for 100 minutes.  (All activities the most boring parts of the game.)
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Lusche on May 01, 2018, 10:38:28 AM
That's beyond my skill set, unfortunately.  Can you chart damage points/time-in-GV for me?

There you go:

(https://i.imgur.com/rY0GUh2.png)
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: 8thJinx on May 01, 2018, 10:47:24 AM
There you go:

(https://i.imgur.com/rY0GUh2.png)

Thanks!  Last request: GV damage points / GV kill points
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: 8thJinx on May 01, 2018, 10:48:41 AM
What were the tours when GV dar was introduced and modified?  Anyone remember?
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Lusche on May 01, 2018, 10:51:28 AM
What were the tours when GV dar was introduced and modified?  Anyone remember?

First try end of tour 214, current 'sector' implementation in tour 215
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Lusche on May 01, 2018, 10:55:08 AM
Thanks!  Last request: GV damage points / GV kill points

Due to the incomparable and abigous nature of both kind of 'point', I'd rather not.
But yes, theres absolutely more damage on objects per kill. Damage per sortie & time went way up with AH3, while the number of kills per GV sortie and (even more) per hour went down. (No surprise when you consider the terrain changes)
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: waystin2 on May 01, 2018, 11:04:53 AM
My Hurri IID loves the Buzzsaw map because it is covered with tank bait.    :D
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: 8thJinx on May 01, 2018, 11:10:01 AM
Due to the incomparable and abigous nature of both kind of 'point', I'd rather not.
But yes, theres absolutely more damage on objects per kill. Damage per sortie & time went way up with AH3, while the number of kills per GV sortie and (even more) per hour went down. (No surprise when you consider the terrain changes)

So the ground game essentially migrated from a GV on GV fight, to shooting at buildings and gunpits. 

IMHO this could be rectified with one thing: more imaginative use of better terrain features.  Which is completely doable, and doesn't require anything extra from Dale and the gang. 
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Lusche on May 01, 2018, 11:13:51 AM
So the ground game essentially migrated from a GV on GV fight, to shooting at buildings and gunpits. 

I think this is highly debatable  :D
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Mano on May 01, 2018, 01:29:27 PM
Anyway to pull up GV damage/hour gv per Terrain?  ie  Crater vs Buzzsaw
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Lusche on May 01, 2018, 01:31:23 PM
Anyway to pull up GV damage/hour gv per Terrain? 

As noted before: No.  :old:
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Mano on May 01, 2018, 01:47:11 PM
The reason I ask is because when Crater is up the map changes configuration fairly quickly as v bases and airfields are conquered. Some of the strats are exposed to gv's. This happens in NDisles as well.  The older maps always had the strats really far from the action (a bomber had to fly a considerable distance to reach them).

good work btw.

 :salute
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: wil3ur on May 01, 2018, 04:24:25 PM
It's because I jumped in a GV and started taking out bases and camping them with my panzer because people said GVing was too hard with GV dar, so I proved them wrong and skewed the numbers.   :old:
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: CAV on May 01, 2018, 06:52:52 PM


Maybe it is as simple as more GV's are now trying to help win the map as opposed to spawn camping for their score.

CAV

(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/war/tank.gif)
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 02, 2018, 04:17:42 PM

Maybe it is as simple as more GV's are now trying to help win the map as opposed to spawn camping for their score.

CAV

(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/war/tank.gif)
:aok I have noticed this. Not FAKE NEWS :old:
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: scott66 on May 02, 2018, 10:11:02 PM
Thinking hurts my brain :bhead
Title: Re: Now that's an interesting development
Post by: Mano on May 03, 2018, 04:11:22 PM
Then get back into Melee....no one thinks in there.    :D :D :D :rofl