Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RODBUSTR on May 10, 2018, 07:58:01 PM

Title: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: RODBUSTR on May 10, 2018, 07:58:01 PM
       As an isolationist country in the 1930s the use of  the B17 as a  strategic  bomber was not a political option.  So the premace of building the plane was coastal defense not strategic bombing.  even though  Those in the Army Air Corp  Knew or expected that the theory of strategic bombing would become a viable use of the 4 engine bomber. 
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: AKKuya on May 10, 2018, 08:04:17 PM
What was the B-17 supposed to bomb in "coastal defense"? 
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Vraciu on May 10, 2018, 08:20:08 PM
The PREMISE may have been anti-shipping but this was at best only for a short while. The strategic bomber mission was made primary based on the rapidly escalating tensions in Europe.  This was well prior to actual production models being employed in active service. 

Coastal defense may have been a role, but it was hardly its main purpose.    Ever.
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 10, 2018, 09:58:12 PM
       As an isolationist country in the 1930s the use of  the B17 as a  strategic  bomber was not a political option.  So the premace of building the plane was coastal defense not strategic bombing.  even though  Those in the Army Air Corp  Knew or expected that the theory of strategic bombing would become a viable use of the 4 engine bomber.

If you had gone to your local library and done some research...

The B-17 was not designed and produced for "coastal defense", it was the plane that won the USAAF's proposal for a strategic bomber to replace the Martin B-10.  One of the features of the new bomber was it had to have the range to be able to reach our strategic bases in the Pacific.  It was designed and used in its primary role, a strategic bomber.  The USAAF also had the other duty for anti-maritime duties, as it was the primary force in this role, not the USN as one would think.  The USAAF used multiple bomber types in this role, from the A-20 to the B-17.  Until 1943, USAAF was still training some bomber crews on how to drop torpedoes and depth charges, which is why B-26s dropped torpedoes during the battles of Midway and Aleutians.

As I mentioned in another thread, 1943 the USAAF and the USN came to an agreement where the USAAF would transfer some heavy bombers (B-24s mostly, think some B-17s too) to the USN and the USN would assume the primary role in anti-maritime operations in all theaters of combat in return for the USAAF being able to use a USN production facility for the B-29's production which was behind schedule at the time. 
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: TWCAxew on May 11, 2018, 07:15:17 AM
Not sure why you make a new treat when your other one got locked!?

However ill put a positive thing here! So it might survive! A recipe of a delicious sponge cake!

INGREDIENTS
Nonstick vegetable cooking spray
½ cup whole milk
¼ cup (½ stick) unsalted butter
1½ cups all-purpose flour
2 teaspoons baking powder
3 large eggs, room temperature
¾ teaspoon kosher salt
¾ cup sugar
1 teaspoon vanilla extract

RECIPE PREPARATION
Arrange a rack in center of oven; preheat to 350˚. Lightly coat a 13x9" baking dish with nonstick spray, then line with parchment paper, leaving a 2" overhang on long sides. Lightly coat parchment with nonstick spray.

Heat milk and butter in a small saucepan over medium, stirring, until butter is melted. Let cool.

Whisk flour and baking powder in a small bowl. Sift through a fine-mesh sieve onto a piece of parchment or waxed paper.

Using an electric mixer on low speed, beat eggs in a large bowl, gradually increasing speed to medium-high, until combined. Add salt and continue to beat until mixture begins to foam, about 1 minute. Reduce mixer speed to low and gradually add sugar; increase speed to high and beat until very light and pale yellow, about 4 minutes. Reduce mixer speed to low again and gradually add dry ingredients, using parchment to help guide it into bowl, and beat on medium speed until no lumps remain and batter is very thick. Beat in vanilla and cooled milk mixture just until combined. Scrape sides and bottom of bowl with a spatula, give batter a good stir with spatula, then scrape into prepared pan.

Bake cake until top is golden and a tester inserted into the center comes out clean, 15–25 minutes. Let cool.

Do Ahead: Cake can be made 1 day ahead. Wrap with plastic and store at room temperature.

Bon apatite!

DutchVII
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Meatwad on May 11, 2018, 07:38:47 AM
What was the B-17 supposed to bomb in "coastal defense"?

Guess his local library didnt have that information so he made a new thread on it
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: noman on May 11, 2018, 07:40:09 AM
Toilet paper roll goes over or under? HAVE A BLAST
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: quig on May 11, 2018, 07:48:02 AM
Not sure why you make a new treat when your other one got locked!?

However ill put a positive thing here! So it might survive! A recipe of a delicious sponge cake!

INGREDIENTS
Nonstick vegetable cooking spray
½ cup whole milk
¼ cup (½ stick) unsalted butter
1½ cups all-purpose flour
2 teaspoons baking powder
3 large eggs, room temperature
¾ teaspoon kosher salt
¾ cup sugar
1 teaspoon vanilla extract

RECIPE PREPARATION
Arrange a rack in center of oven; preheat to 350˚. Lightly coat a 13x9" baking dish with nonstick spray, then line with parchment paper, leaving a 2" overhang on long sides. Lightly coat parchment with nonstick spray.

Heat milk and butter in a small saucepan over medium, stirring, until butter is melted. Let cool.

Whisk flour and baking powder in a small bowl. Sift through a fine-mesh sieve onto a piece of parchment or waxed paper.

Using an electric mixer on low speed, beat eggs in a large bowl, gradually increasing speed to medium-high, until combined. Add salt and continue to beat until mixture begins to foam, about 1 minute. Reduce mixer speed to low and gradually add sugar; increase speed to high and beat until very light and pale yellow, about 4 minutes. Reduce mixer speed to low again and gradually add dry ingredients, using parchment to help guide it into bowl, and beat on medium speed until no lumps remain and batter is very thick. Beat in vanilla and cooled milk mixture just until combined. Scrape sides and bottom of bowl with a spatula, give batter a good stir with spatula, then scrape into prepared pan.

Bake cake until top is golden and a tester inserted into the center comes out clean, 15–25 minutes. Let cool.

Do Ahead: Cake can be made 1 day ahead. Wrap with plastic and store at room temperature.

Bon apatite!

DutchVII

I just tried that recipe and this came out:
(https://i.imgur.com/oMJ66ar.jpg)

HMMMM!
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Volron on May 11, 2018, 08:08:17 AM
 :rofl
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Becinhu on May 11, 2018, 08:33:34 AM
I like turtles


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: wil3ur on May 11, 2018, 10:08:39 AM
This precisely mirrored exactly what I said would happen.   :old:  :devil  :bolt:
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Vraciu on May 11, 2018, 10:56:24 AM
Toilet paper roll goes over or under? HAVE A BLAST

Over!

HAVEABLAST.
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Vraciu on May 11, 2018, 10:58:15 AM
Not sure why you make a new treat when your other one got locked!?

However ill put a positive thing here! So it might survive! A recipe of a delicious sponge cake!

INGREDIENTS
Nonstick vegetable cooking spray
½ cup whole milk
¼ cup (½ stick) unsalted butter
1½ cups all-purpose flour
2 teaspoons baking powder
3 large eggs, room temperature
¾ teaspoon kosher salt
¾ cup sugar
1 teaspoon vanilla extract

RECIPE PREPARATION
Arrange a rack in center of oven; preheat to 350˚. Lightly coat a 13x9" baking dish with nonstick spray, then line with parchment paper, leaving a 2" overhang on long sides. Lightly coat parchment with nonstick spray.

*MUNCH*

Do Ahead: Cake can be made 1 day ahead. Wrap with plastic and store at room temperature.

Bon apatite!

DutchVII

Lol!!

I just tried that recipe and this came out:

https://i.imgur.com/oMJ66ar.jpg

HMMMM!

LMAO!!   :rofl


This precisely mirrored exactly what I said would happen.   :old:  :devil  :bolt:

Truth.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,392915.msg5215100.html#msg5215100


HAVEABLAST!


Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Wiley on May 11, 2018, 11:05:03 AM
Toilet paper roll goes over or under? HAVE A BLAST

A picture from the original patent application.  The matter appears to be settled.

(http://static3.uk.businessinsider.com/image/550b2c55dd0895ff7a8b45b9-1200-2000/us459516-0.png)

Wiley.
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: noman on May 11, 2018, 11:11:46 AM
This also shows them tearing off 1 sheet at a time. I think they didn't do there due diligence on testing what was best with this particular patent. HAVE A BLAST
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Copprhed on May 11, 2018, 11:28:34 AM
I just tried that recipe and this came out:
(https://i.imgur.com/oMJ66ar.jpg)

HMMMM!
:aok
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: JimmyC on May 11, 2018, 02:22:01 PM
A picture from the original patent application.  The matter appears to be settled.

(http://static3.uk.businessinsider.com/image/550b2c55dd0895ff7a8b45b9-1200-2000/us459516-0.png)

Wiley.

Are those original blue prints from the library ?
Point made..
Haveablast    then fold and wipe ...no scruntching
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Vraciu on May 11, 2018, 02:59:00 PM
Are those original blue prints from the library ?
Point made..
Haveablast    then fold and wipe ...no scruntching

 :rofl :rofl :rofl

HAVEABLAST!!!!
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Meatwad on May 11, 2018, 05:25:09 PM
Fig 1 looks like two hands holding the roll up. Either they have tiny house elves to hold the roll up or the patent is human sized hands and the roll of TP is either for king king or orson welles
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: APDrone on May 11, 2018, 05:42:54 PM
A picture from the original patent application.  The matter appears to be settled.

(http://static3.uk.businessinsider.com/image/550b2c55dd0895ff7a8b45b9-1200-2000/us459516-0.png)

Wiley.

Just proves the inventor didn't have a cat.
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Guppy35 on May 12, 2018, 11:13:18 PM
Before you guys get too carried away telling him he's wrong, do a bit more digging.  May 1938 the 2nd BG and their early 17s as part of proving they could be effective in defending the US, flew a mission out to intercept an Italian Liner by the name of Rex.  Col Old, (Robin Old's father) lead the flight and Curtis LeMay was lead navigator.   They successfully intercepted the ship 700 miles out.

This did not go over well in those pre-war days when the services were fighting for money and the Navy raised holy hell to the point the Air Corps was limited to only 100 miles out to protect the coasts as the Navy saw it as their job to do so beyond that limit.

So yes, Coastal Defense was a part of the B-17 mission. 

The 2nd BG finds the Rex

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Rex_zps21hxn4va.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Rex_zps21hxn4va.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Oldman731 on May 12, 2018, 11:52:36 PM
Before you guys get too carried away telling him he's wrong, do a bit more digging. 


Yup.  While the pre-war coastal defense mission wasn't official, it was a prominent dispute.

Same thing happened after WWII, Navy fighting for carriers while the USAF fought for the B-36 and follow-ons.

- oldman
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Vraciu on May 13, 2018, 12:10:22 AM
Before you guys get too carried away telling him he's wrong, do a bit more digging.  May 1938 the 2nd BG and their early 17s as part of proving they could be effective in defending the US, flew a mission out to intercept an Italian Liner by the name of Rex.  Col Old, (Robin Old's father) lead the flight and Curtis LeMay was lead navigator.   They successfully intercepted the ship 700 miles out.

This did not go over well in those pre-war days when the services were fighting for money and the Navy raised holy hell to the point the Air Corps was limited to only 100 miles out to protect the coasts as the Navy saw it as their job to do so beyond that limit.

So yes, Coastal Defense was a part of the B-17 mission.

The 2nd BG finds the Rex

[]http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Rex_zps21hxn4va.jpg[/img] (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Rex_zps21hxn4va.jpg.html)

Nobody said otherwise. 

The LeMay mission is famous PR.   NOT an obscure fact by any means.

HAVEABLAST.
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 13, 2018, 01:50:05 AM
Before you guys get too carried away telling him he's wrong, do a bit more digging.  May 1938 the 2nd BG and their early 17s as part of proving they could be effective in defending the US, flew a mission out to intercept an Italian Liner by the name of Rex.  Col Old, (Robin Old's father) lead the flight and Curtis LeMay was lead navigator.   They successfully intercepted the ship 700 miles out.

This did not go over well in those pre-war days when the services were fighting for money and the Navy raised holy hell to the point the Air Corps was limited to only 100 miles out to protect the coasts as the Navy saw it as their job to do so beyond that limit.

So yes, Coastal Defense was a part of the B-17 mission. 

The 2nd BG finds the Rex

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Rex_zps21hxn4va.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Rex_zps21hxn4va.jpg.html)

No one has disputed the use of the B-17 in coastal defense, RODBUSTR though is wrong in saying the B-17 was designed not as a strategic bomber but rather purely for coastal defense duties.
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Volron on May 14, 2018, 10:37:43 AM
Just proves the inventor didn't have a cat.

This.  :bhead
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: SPKmes on May 14, 2018, 01:13:28 PM
Well...if nothing else....we have a new catch phrase  hahahaha   ....    been a while since our last one died off
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Vraciu on May 14, 2018, 01:43:57 PM
Well...if nothing else....we have a new catch phrase  hahahaha   ....    been a while since our last one died off

 :rofl :rofl :rofl

HAVEABLAST.
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: JimmyC on May 14, 2018, 02:45:01 PM
And fold and wipe
Title: Re: Reply to comments about B17 for coastal defense not strategic bombing
Post by: Wiley on May 14, 2018, 02:49:43 PM
And fold and wipe

Well that, at least we can agree on.  Scrunching is right out.

Still chuckling over the "no cat" comment.

Wiley.