Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: hblair on September 15, 2001, 12:21:00 AM
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I had a blast as Axis CM in this frame. Looks to be an axis victory, great job Axis Squad CO's and pilots. When I checked the roster and saw 35 axis and 6 allied after having seen an even roster of 43 vs. 43 earlier, I was in utter amazement. :eek:
<S> all!
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Well...
I'm probably going to say more on this a bit later... but it strikes me as a bit odd that at 9:10pm, after the action had seemed to cease, one of the Axis flyers was asking if he could rtb... He was told yeah, it's safe to do so, as the frame was pretty much wrapped up. Exactly 1/2 hour later our CV group disappeared, meaning it was attacked and sunk at 9:30 - a full 1.5 hours after the launch order.
Turns out it was by your squad. I'm testing this offline but I doubt I'm gonna like what I find out.
By then only about 6 of us sitting in the tower BS'ing were there to witness that.
[ 09-15-2001: Message edited by: Nash ]
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<S> HB!
Nice plan and even better execution. I fear we may have awakened the slumbering giant though. :)
WTG Virage and Wotan on coordinating the intercept. Without your guidance I might still be out there looking for bandits...
[ 09-15-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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I'll show you mine if you show me yours. :)
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hblair - can you post a proper AAR? I'm particularly interested in what time you guys rolled.
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We rolled about 3-5 minutes into the frame due to a couple of stragglers coming in just before roll time. The reason your CV was sent to the bottom 1.5 hours into the frame was because of planning. It was planned that way. The JU88's were in the air the whole time.
No, we did not roll and take a direct course to the CV.
No, we did not foolishly grab un-needed altitude.
No, we did not go off map.
Yes, we took an indirect course that kept us out of harms way.
The Allies have the better bombers, but the Axis have the tenacity and creativity to make do with what they have. These are two hour frames, we just choose to use our time more wisely.
:p
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Not sure then how you can be in "amazement" at seeing only 6 Allies in the roster if y'all are gonna be hittin' targets after most folks have left. If you guys did win this frame... congrats, I guess.
Looks like from now on people are gonna have to stay airborne and refuel until they pass out from sleep deprivation. Interesting development... not sure how healthy this is for the TOD.
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I wouldn't be so sure all those guys just "left". :)
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No I didn't like seeing the arena half empty nash, but knowing the roster was that way simply because the other side were all shot down was really satisfying, I fly these things to win. This is the first TOD I've COed, and I spent a couple of nights thinking of where to put what squads, etc. It all just came together for us, sorry if I seemed like I was gloating, just happy man, thats all.
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Well look...
One of yer guys was asking if it was cool to rtb, because the action had pretty much ceased, it was gettin' late and for all he knew he'd have to refuel and cap ad nausium because there *is* no time limit. He was told, in essence, that it's cool.... go ahead.
About 40 minutes later our TG got wiped from the map.
S'all I'm gonna say.
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S'all I'm gonna say.
BS :)
Are you saying that HB ran up the score on you guys? Do we need a skunk rule for the TOD? What about the BCS rankings? :D
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1. yes
2. pishaaw
3. Bowling? :)
Or what if next frame the Allies get on the runway and sit for 3 hours before rolling...
Can 'o worms, funked.
We all wanna win, right? So why not? And what better way of ensuring that, than making sure there aint even anyone around to stop ya. What the hell.. brilliant plan.
Might use it next frame... pack a lunch.
[ 09-15-2001: Message edited by: Nash ]
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I'd rather stay out of this particular topic.
That being said I will close logs & reboot arena at T+2 hours. I don't care if there are 6 on or 60. I'd much prefer that most strikes take place in the first hour. However I can not enforce that. I can however and will enforce that everyone will have RTB'd by the 2 hour mark or their planes WILL be lost.
Was hitting both CV's at T+ 90 a valid tatic? Yes, was it pushing the envelope a bit, also yes.
[ 09-15-2001: Message edited by: Ghosth ]
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I thought it was decided early on (first or second frame of TOD 1) that the TODs were going to be limited to 2 hours.
Either way, it sounds like it was a fun evening and I'm sorry I missed it! I ended up falling asleep on the couch like a handsomehunk! :)
SOB
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NO offence but that axis flyer probaby wanted to rtb cause there was nobody left to shoot at. There was enought time left in the frame for our bombers to do thier job. Are you saying because all the allies were shot down in the first half of the frame that we should have just ended it there and then? Or are you saying that the 88s should have flown a direct course and not tried to evade detection?. I dont get what the whine is about.
Next week we can launch all our planes from 8 and 5, meet over the water, duke it out and the guy left can circle his home field till T-1 min and then land. Sound fair?
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Hi All,
Gotta admit I can see nothing wrong with the execution of the frame by the Axis forces, I am just a "Grunt" in the Allied machine and comprehensively got my bellybutton whooped last night :eek: but if the attack had happened so late that an RTB within the alloted time frame had been impossible then this sucks, but assuming (and this is an assumption on my part) that an RTB was possible. I see no problem.
<S> all
TTFN
snafu
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Our squad rolled at the beginning of the frame and did not see ONE single enemy plane.
We enjoyed our tour of the southeast coast of Mindanao.
hblair used the FDB's in a way no other CO had before. He put us away from the action so we wouldn' fek up the frame for the Axis. He tasked us to kill a target that was "undamagable" and without seeing a single enemy only two of us survived the damn frame! :D
Well done hb..........<finger>
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I was the fool in the N1K who got shot down over A1, but I stayed and watched the rest of the scenario.
Nash, the Axis command net was all on a private channel. Most Axis flyers (myself included) didn't know of all the ops that were going on; I mean, I knew we had to have bombers somewhere, but their status was unknown.
Yes, someone asked if it was safe to RTB; it was probably inappropriate to do so.
The CM asked a question about inbound strikes, but from my perspective, it sounded like the question was pointed towards the allies.
Nevertheless, someone did inform the CM that Axis had strikes inbound, and the CM did communicate that fact to both sides. If anyone has a film of the scenario, you'll see that that did indeed happen.
All flights were down and the arena was reset before T+2 hours.
Now, as for tactics:
Bomb strikes often tend to be more effective the later in the frame they occur -- the hope is that the number of enemy fighters will be reduced. Of course, the risk is that all friendly fighters will be wiped out. As it was, the Allies ran a p38 blitz at the start, risking the other way: that the Axis wouldn't be able to organize in time to thwart the attack; that way they'd have a full fighter force later in the frame.
The FTDs got picked up, and there wasn't anybody left an hour into the frame. So some Axis puke asks if there's a point to staying in the air.
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OK Nash, you are now out of line. I have been going out of my way to be courteous towards the Allied personnel after the tough night they had, and I admonished my squadron to do so also, but you are being such a poor sport that I can no longer hold my tongue.
You are hinting that Hblair did something wrong, but you have yet to point out a rules violation, and you have yet to point out a violation of any "code of conduct" that I have ever seen applied in the dozens of S3/SL/TOD/Major Scenarios that I have flown. In fact The only code of conduct violations I saw last night were coming from Allied pilots abusing channel 1.
Or what if next frame the Allies get on the runway and sit for 3 hours before rolling...
There is a 2 hour time limit. The frame would be over and the logs closed. Please try this if you want to lose even worse than last night.
We all wanna win, right? So why not? And what better way of ensuring that, than making sure there aint even anyone around to stop ya. What the hell.. brilliant plan.
Yes we ensured that you guys weren't around by SHOOTING DOWN EVERY ONE OF YOUR FREAKING PLANES.
So what should Axis have done? You seem to be upset that we completely destroyed your air forces and then mauled your naval forces.
Should we have NOT shot down all your planes?
Should we have made sure to attack your CV while you had CAP over it?
Next time should we announce that we are attacking your CV, and what time we will be there?
Should the CM end the frame if one side is completely destroyed? That's what I mean by "skunk rule". It's a courtesy extended in many games. If one team has no points, and the other team reaches a certain threshold, then the match is ended so that the suffering of the losers is not prolonged. I don't think it would be unreasonable to adopt that rule for TOD. Is that what you are looking for?
And If there were Allied pilots who left before the end of the frame who weren't shot down, then they should be reconsider registering for TOD. Don't sign up for a two-hour event if you aren't willing to stay for two hours. If people have real life obligations (one of my guys got called back to work) then it is not a problem, but if people are just getting bored and logging before the end of the frame, I suggest they not register for this event in the future.
Of course I'd much rather see everybody on the Allied side suck it up, renew their dedication to the series, fly the full two hours, and kick our butts all over the map next week.
[ 09-15-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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I think the two hours should be used to their fullest, taking into account the need to RTB before the logs are closed. Other than that, I don't see how you could take issue with it. But, I wasn't there so I won't blather on about it.
I would like to comment on Funked's "skunk rule" suggestion tho'. I'd hate it. Everone logs in to the TOD to perform a mission and should be allowed to complete that mission. If one side is destroyed in quick order, then they should just have to live with the losses, even if that means unopposed bombing after re-arms. I could be wrong or missing something, but I think the 2 hour rule is a good limiter.
SOB
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well I had no idea myself where any of the axis forces were during this frame with the exception of my own, wotans group mentioned where they were, and funked relayed his position many times during the frame. My crew of 6 had CAP duty of P34 and we encountered F6f's which were dispatched. It got really quiet down there after that. We patrolled the area and knew that an allied CV was close. Upon looking at my film it was indeed close (appears that way) however we saw no activity from it until we finally rtb'ed an hour after the frame started.
I did find it unusuall that I didnt see com's from the assasins, FDB's, and whoever elkse were flyign axis. But I didnt care, I figured they had their own sandbox to play in.
My only complaint is the lack of enenmies. I hype these things all week getting my guys geared torward coming and promise action and then the action is pretty scarce. I know that the same thing happened to some squads in the last TOD. I just want my guys to have a good time, and that mean expending ammo.
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Yeah, I really shouldn't have said anything, and I told hblair elsewhere that I can't blame him at all for the the mission he put together. Fact is I was totally frustrated by a number of things last night, including a costly breakdown by our own side in carrying out its orders, having to deal with a couple of people on our country channel who were completely out to lunch ("I hate F6F's whaaa!" or "P38's against Nikis is BS!") - for almost the entire two hours, 2 entire squads showing up that had zero idea what their orders were in the 1st place, many many no-shows (the list goes on)... And when I saw our CVs go down long after an RTB discussion on ch 1, it bothered me.
I actually was unaware there was a 2 hour time limit, and I didn't think Ju-88's could stay airborne at a 1.5 fuel modifier for the time it took to make this attack... so from my POV it just looked dubious. Turns out they did roll at the start, but flew an indirect course, NOE at only 40 manifold. So, yeah, it was all above board. A good plan - and again, I can't blame him for putting it together.
I apologize for bringing it up here.
<S>
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<S> Nash. Get the allied morale up, and come back and kick some bellybutton next week.
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2 entire squads showing up up with zero idea of their mission orders, 13th tas being one.
Hey, Nash, I apologize for the inconveniance, but I,m sure Rude had other things on his mind besides this game.
6 of our squad did show however cause we figured showing up blind was better than no coming at all.
Daddog gave us an objective, we took care of buisiness , and then played it by ear.
I would suggest that CO's give the mission planners 1 or 2 other squaddies e-mail address for access to orders so this doesn't happen again.
Ya did good with what you had Nash<S>
Sax
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Nash no grudges here. <S>
Thanks to all who showed up despite communications breakdowns. I didn't realize that so many guys were incommunicado or skipping this one.
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<S> Glad you guys worked this out.
hb how many ships you sink? Logs only show one. Thought it was more than that. I want to make sure the Axis get full credit.
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Ghost called out live a sunk (by the AKs), and a CV damaged. Then he seemed caught by surprise when the message "Field 18 has been captured by the knights" came across after the Assassins sunk the other CV.
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Daddog, personally saw the cruiser sunk from the S CV group. Also the CV was sunk from the N Task force.
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AKCurly (Arabian Knights) got the southern Cruiser, DaJudge (Assassins) got the northern Carrier.
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Originally posted by Nash:
Yeah, I really shouldn't have said anything, and I told hblair elsewhere that I can't blame him at all for the the mission he put together. Fact is I was totally frustrated by a number of things last night, including a costly breakdown by our own side in carrying out its orders, having to deal with a couple of people on our country channel who were completely out to lunch ("I hate F6F's whaaa!" or "P38's against Nikis is BS!") - for almost the entire two hours, 2 entire squads showing up that had zero idea what their orders were in the 1st place, many many no-shows (the list goes on)... And when I saw our CVs go down long after an RTB discussion on ch 1, it bothered me.
I actually was unaware there was a 2 hour time limit, and I didn't think Ju-88's could stay airborne at a 1.5 fuel modifier for the time it took to make this attack... so from my POV it just looked dubious. Turns out they did roll at the start, but flew an indirect course, NOE at only 40 manifold. So, yeah, it was all above board. A good plan - and again, I can't blame him for putting it together.
I apologize for bringing it up here.
<S>
No problem here nash. Glad to see we're back on good terms, no hard feelings.
<S>
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Glad to hear it hblair.
Never any hard feelings from me about this stuff... it's just my competetive spirit going overboard sometimes. :)
<S>
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Ok... I see em both in the logs. :)
Also updated the rules to list a 2 hour limit, under 5. Events and Settings.
<S>