I haven't found anything to indicate that tracers were never not used.
If Guppy is watching, I imagine he has instant links to a variety of sources. In the ETO, 8th AF fighter groups began experimenting with deletion of tracers in late 1944, if memory serves. Uniformly, their kill rates went up, and the practice was widely praised.
- oldman
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 23, 2018, 10:06:18 PM
I haven't found anything to indicate that tracers were never not used.
Not our fault that you're not good at doing any sort of research. There were pilots that didn't use tracers.
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: Krusty on August 24, 2018, 01:28:15 PM
It was very common even in the beginning stages of the war, during Battle of Britain, to use tracers to indicate the end of an ammo belt and not until then. Sometimes only one gun might have any on it. Sometimes belts were mixed up when loading so the tracers might show up halfway through an ammo load and then go away when the guns kept firing after that.
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: pembquist on August 25, 2018, 12:34:06 AM
yeah, I thought there was something about the ballistics of the tracers being different from the other rounds so they were misleading
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: APDrone on August 25, 2018, 10:41:33 PM
Fork Tailed Devil, by Martin Caiden
There's a section about Tommy Lynch's position on Tracers.
He insisted they be removed and the results justified the decision.
Basically, because the Japanese weren't aware they were being shot at, they didn't evade in a manner to keep from getting shot at.
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: Mister Fork on August 27, 2018, 12:54:14 PM
I haven't found anything to indicate that tracers were never not used.
I don't quite follow how having tracers forced on your opponents would help you stay out of their gunsight in the first case.
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: ccvi on August 29, 2018, 03:03:50 AM
Looking at tracers for defensive maneuvers doesn't really work anyway. Bullets are precise on the shooters computer. On the targets computer they lag as much as the attacker (who is shooting at a lagging target). Whether or not they look like they hit on the targets side is not the same as whether or not they really hit (on the attackers computer).
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: save on September 06, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Shooting with tracers on some planes are really a challenge, an example is the 190a5, fully armed it has 3 trajectory tracers shooting with 6 guns in total from wings and engine cowl, obscuring a small target with all these tracers.
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: popeye on September 06, 2018, 08:03:13 AM
What is the effect of no-tracers for vehicles? I turned off tracers in a Panzer to hide in the bushes protecting the map room at a port. I couldn't see my machine gun tracers, but a friendly said he could see them. And the attacking aircraft also <cough> appeared to see them. :O
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: save on September 06, 2018, 09:50:18 AM
You can't on vehicles, else Wirby's would be the most effective thing in the game.
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: Vinkman on September 17, 2018, 01:30:08 PM
Looking at tracers for defensive maneuvers doesn't really work anyway. Bullets are precise on the shooters computer. On the targets computer they lag as much as the attacker (who is shooting at a lagging target). Whether or not they look like they hit on the targets side is not the same as whether or not they really hit (on the attackers computer).
While this is true, there is a huge advantage to seeing the tracers come out of the plane that is chasing you when trying to avade them. :salute
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: pembquist on September 17, 2018, 02:01:26 PM
While this is true, there is a huge advantage to seeing the tracers come out of the plane that is chasing you when trying to avade them. :salute
I'm not doubting that this is true for you but for me they only serve as a warning that I didn't notice somebody back there. I cannot count the number of times I have felt real clever as I maneuver so the other guy has no shot and watch the tracers pass harmlessly behind my plane which then loses a wing!
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: lunaticfringe on September 17, 2018, 02:03:14 PM
sometimes I use tracers and sometimes I don't
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: Arlo on September 17, 2018, 04:14:15 PM
Buncha good replies. Just thought some internet accessible material was warranted:
Here's several examples of 8th AF gun attacks (air to air and air to ground) w/o tracers - some seem to show some sporadic/occasional tracers but that may be the 'end of belt' thing mentioned:
I suspect the engine and gun noises were added for entertainment effect like the music. I wasn't aware of sound recordings used in the planes then (or now, for that matter). In the mid forties that would require extra equipment/weight.
(I would be interested in knowing more if anyone knows of actual WWII gun film footage shot with sound on film technology.)
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: Mister Fork on September 17, 2018, 04:54:27 PM
I know of several Luftwaffe pilots who purposely removed tracers from their belts - as per the instructions they gave to the ground crew chiefs. So did several American aces.
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: SlipKnt on September 21, 2018, 02:44:04 PM
As a M249 SAW gunner in my beloved Marine Corps I only ever used tracers for training.
In combat, not so much. Can lead the enemy to your location to drop ord on you.
I am allergic to ord...
In the game, some have learned how to use no tracers so they can get in a good HO before you begin twisting and fall to your fiery death. I laugh every time I fall victim to it.
:O
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: Mister Fork on September 21, 2018, 04:25:59 PM
As a M249 SAW gunner in my beloved Marine Corps I only ever used tracers for training.
In combat, not so much. Can lead the enemy to your location to drop ord on you.
I am allergic to ord...
In the game, some have learned how to use no tracers so they can get in a good HO before you begin twisting and fall to your fiery death. I laugh every time I fall victim to it.
:O
I took my tracers out too when I carried the C9A2 (M249). Is it wrong that I felt joy switching that ROF lever in the front whenever I got pissed off?
Title: Re: No Tracers is Retarded
Post by: Oldman731 on September 21, 2018, 07:46:51 PM