Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => King of the Hill => Topic started by: Vinkman on August 27, 2018, 02:50:00 PM
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I do love the Koth Format and play whenever I remember it's going on, and I have time. There are two things I think would improve it.
1) enforce the no taking, radio silence rule. Some people narrate the action, and this gives warnings to players of other approaching players, and shouldn't be allowed.
2) ICONs with names should be turned off. It's too easy for 'friends' and squaddies to gang up and kill non friends and squad members, even if they don;t talk on the radio. Anonymity would really make it a fair fight. I know people will want to chance the rabbit but perhaps the rabbits ICON color could be different from all others. Once a player gets two wins, his ICON changes color. multiple rabbits means no one would know which rabbit was which. So squadmates could gang the non-squad rabbit first.
You get the idea..
:salute
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Vinkman I appreciate your opinions and you stepping up to help KOTH :salute
As far as loose talk is concerned going back to the old 3 range and keeping tower communications IN THE TOWER is a far bigger deal, at least in my opinion. KOTH was always a self policing event to a degree and people talking about fights in the tower and keeping the comms there was critical. You could also go over rules or anything else a player asked a CM and NOT INTERFERE with the fight. Narrating a fight is not good but I myself say 'knock, knock' when entering a fight. Some players do that and some don't. I have zero problem with that and never did. That in a way also reinforced the fact that in KOTH when you get to a fight you engage the fight when you get there. You don't wait for them to finish like a ladder. That question does come up often from what I've seen.
I know of no way to turn off names. They pop up when close if you open the message window anyway. Reducing icon distance is the only thing we would be able to change there but I may not be familiar with some newer settings. Different icon for wabbit would be a wish list item as we can't do anything with that. What you do have is .wingman to highlight a wabbit, but that is a one icon deal so that limits you some.
I'll probably do this often as it's my reference so I apologize if the world has changed. But 'way back when', I won't use 'In the good Ol' days', we used to put stuff like this up and ask KOTH players what THEY wanted.
Possibly overstepping my new CM shoes but what do you say KOTH participants???
What are YOUR opinions?
I do love the Koth Format and play whenever I remember it's going on, and I have time. There are two things I think would improve it.
1) enforce the no taking, radio silence rule. Some people narrate the action, and this gives warnings to players of other approaching players, and shouldn't be allowed.
2) ICONs with names should be turned off. It's too easy for 'friends' and squaddies to gang up and kill non friends and squad members, even if they don;t talk on the radio. Anonymity would really make it a fair fight. I know people will want to chance the rabbit but perhaps the rabbits ICON color could be different from all others. Once a player gets two wins, his ICON changes color. multiple rabbits means no one would know which rabbit was which. So squadmates could gang the non-squad rabbit first.
You get the idea..
:salute
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Vinkman I appreciate your opinions and you stepping up to help KOTH :salute
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I know of no way to turn off names. They pop up when close if you open the message window anyway. Reducing icon distance is the only thing we would be able to change there but I may not be familiar with some newer settings. Different icon for wabbit would be a wish list item as we can't do anything with that. What you do have is .wingman to highlight a wabbit, but that is a one icon deal so that limits you some.
ICONS are either ID or Plane type. There must be a way to set it to plane type only?
The Rabbits could be moved to a second team so they show up as RED icons. Aren't we currently all on the same team killing each other? Can it be set for two teams where you can still kill everyone?
If the Radio is used to id players, either set 'RANGE' to ZERO. or the whole arena width so everyone is on the radio until eliminated. Then you'd have some idea based on who is left, but even when it got down to 3, you would know which of the other planes where which. seems fairer. :salute
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ICONS are either ID or Plane type. There must be a way to set it to plane type only?
The Rabbits could be moved to a second team so they show up as RED icons. Aren't we currently all on the same team killing each other? Can it be set for two teams where you can still kill everyone?
If the Radio is used to id players, either set 'RANGE' to ZERO. or the whole arena width so everyone is on the radio until eliminated. Then you'd have some idea based on who is left, but even when it got down to 3, you would know which of the other planes where which. seems fairer. :salute
Would you have a new map with two fields next to each other? Or busy the CM with having to change the field designation?
Can you adjust the range at which a persons gameID shows up in the message window display? Far as I know we can set icon distance and I don't think that ties into range channel at all.
I really have not finished all my training yet so maybe this ol dog has a thing or two to learn :pray
I'd love an icon only for plane type and we all know that anyway. And if you forget... look in your cockpit ;)
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Would you have a new map with two fields next to each other? Or busy the CM with having to change the field designation?
Can you adjust the range at which a persons gameID shows up in the message window display? Far as I know we can set icon distance and I don't think that ties into range channel at all.
I really have not finished all my training yet so maybe this ol dog has a thing or two to learn :pray
I'd love an icon only for plane type and we all know that anyway. And if you forget... look in your cockpit ;)
I'm with you fuse. Thanks for considering. :salute
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And maybe the biggest thing is just getting players back in the event and helping it get to where it once was.
Need eyes out there keeping it all on the up and up.
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I personally hate the new range/local/room channel
I wish HT would put the option into the CM commands, so the KOTH CM's could check the flag to switch how the range/local/room channel worked like it used to be
The new range/local/room channel has really put a thorn in the KOTH event
But with that said, I will not change the way I have always played KOTH!
I will announce that I am entering a fight with 2 or more already going at it, just like I will still call out any other player that is beginning to enter a fight that I might be dogfighting/engaged with 1 or multiple others
I find that it helps teach the newer players to practice their SA (situational awareness) and be constantly observant of their surroundings
I have never been warned or called out about doing this, since flying KOTH events going all the way back to AirWarrior and then when HTC let the event to continue here in Aces High
My views and thoughts
~S~
TC
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The the icons the way they are.
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We may have to start a collection to bribe Mr. Addink. :)
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We may have to start a collection to bribe Mr. Addink. :)
If Dale is running short on his supply of scotch, I'll help supply him a case......
TC
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Tower vox never made sense even in MA...hate logging on to some armchair general trying to tell everyone what to do.
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We may have to start a collection to bribe Mr. Addink. :)
We only need $40.11 :devil
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But with that said, I will not change the way I have always played KOTH!
I will announce that I am entering a fight with 2 or more already going at it, just like I will still call out any other player that is beginning to enter a fight that I might be dogfighting/engaged with 1 or multiple others
In violation of the KOTH rules. Which rules can I violate?
:salute
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In violation of the KOTH rules. Which rules can I violate?
:salute
Show me the rule that says "players still flying in the round, are not allowed to use range(purple) channel vox to "voice" that he/she is entering / engaging in a fight that 2 or more already going at it"
Show me the rule that says "players still flying in the round, are not allowed to use range(purple) channel vox to "voice" to the other(s) that he/she is already engaged fighting with that another player is fixing to join the dogfight/furball
Search through the complete "KOTH forum" and post links to even just 1 individual thread or post that says I violated the KOTH event rules.....
I do not narrate the action while I am still in the fight or up flying
And ever since the way HTC has changed the way the range/local/room channel works, I have refrained from posting text or talking once I have been sent to the Tower out of respect for those still up flying!
Before the range/local/room channel was changed, players and the CMs could talk in the tower about fighting that was still going on using the room(purple) vox.... Players and CMs would even "as you think of it" narrate kinda for those who couldn't or didn't use the CMeye mode from the tower!
Players that have already been downed/sent to the Tower have always been encouraged to help watch the different players and dogfights still going to help the KOTH CM's police the event! doing so by calling out any player violating a rule, which one can use the KOTH event main vox 101 channel or the other in this case
Hope this helps
TC
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<Snip> Narrating a fight is not good but I myself say 'knock, knock' when entering a fight. Some players do that and some don't. I have zero problem with that and never did. That in a way also reinforced the fact that in KOTH when you get to a fight you engage the fight when you get there. You don't wait for them to finish like a ladder. That question does come up often from what I've seen.
<Snip>
Bold text for part of my reasoning.
If we don't all go over here, https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,394004.0.html , and voice our opinion of the old range channel and KOTH, I will read the rules for 20 minutes!!!
Used to hear some good talk INSIDE the tower during KOTHs.
[ 12 aluminum cans for the bribe HiTech fund so far :rofl ] I'll even give up and donate my common cents, the two pennies I found at the supermarket the other day. So thats 12x$0.05 and $0.02
:rolleyes:
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Show me the rule that says "players still flying in the round, are not allowed to use range(purple) channel vox to "voice" that he/she is entering / engaging in a fight that 2 or more already going at it"
Show me the rule that says "players still flying in the round, are not allowed to use range(purple) channel vox to "voice" to the other(s) that he/she is already engaged fighting with that another player is fixing to join the dogfight/furball
Search through the complete "KOTH forum" and post links to even just 1 individual thread or post that says I violated the KOTH event rules.....
I do not narrate the action while I am still in the fight or up flying
And ever since the way HTC has changed the way the range/local/room channel works, I have refrained from posting text or talking once I have been sent to the Tower out of respect for those still up flying!
Before the range/local/room channel was changed, players and the CMs could talk in the tower about fighting that was still going on using the room(purple) vox.... Players and CMs would even "as you think of it" narrate kinda for those who couldn't or didn't use the CMeye mode from the tower!
Players that have already been downed/sent to the Tower have always been encouraged to help watch the different players and dogfights still going to help the KOTH CM's police the event! doing so by calling out any player violating a rule, which one can use the KOTH event main vox 101 channel or the other in this case
Hope this helps
TC
10) Chat rule
* Text chat is only allowed on squad and range (Only in tower)Text. No Chatting on Vox or text on 101 and country chn.
* <S> and good fight is still allowed on country channel and chn 101.
* No check 6’s are allowed at ALL Times!
The spirit of the rule is that you are not allowed to coordinate or assist other players in the fight. If you warn a player you are fighting that another player is coming, that is a check 6, and should be considered aiding another player against another.
I will state for the record that I think the passive communication and ganging that happens in KOTH degrades the event. Allowing VOX and IDs puts too much pressure on moderators to be aggressive in enforcing the spirit of not cooperating and "winging" by calling players out. If VOX silent, and IDs were removed the event would eliminate the possibility and hence perception of infractions. There is no need for VOX, or IDs during flight in KOTH, so why have them?
Because TC narrates and gives warnings and check 6s against the rules, I choose not to participate. It's Fuseman's event, and he way feel this is a nuanced concept and he likes it the way it is. I respect his right to run it his way. :salute
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Well, you got me cogitating now :headscratch:
Holding part of the reply for further :headscratch:
I 100% agree with "I will state for the record that I think the passive communication and ganging that happens in KOTH degrades the event?" but CM's are limited in what we can do in much of that. Many can't get the 'YOU against EVERYONE ELSE' and vice versa aspect of the event out of their coconuts, they have to help their buddy or squad mate. When we had old range IN Tower coms that was much more discouraged as you got called out and DID NOT disrupt the other fights going on when someone brought up something fishy. How could you stop two telepathic twins who play AH from having passive communication, even if you were standing behind them at the time? Only thing we have is looking at the actions, peer pressure and getting honestly called out by other KOTH participants, and dealt with by CMs when it happens. I think if we tried to eliminate all coms it would just make third party apps flourish in there, I doubt we could all learn or boost our telepathic skills.
TC does NOT narrate the event or fights and if he did he'd be told not to. He does say he's entering the fight and I'll defer to my second line for the moment on that one.
I will argue 100% against the idea this is Fuseman's event, who IS this Fuseman ;)
fuzeman is just another player that asked to host KOTH and be a CM. I've always said it's KOTHers event and we'll put up opinions and discuss them and if the majority of KOTH participants want a change it would be considered and tried, if CMs have the ability to make that change. IF we don't and it's sort of feasible we pass it up the food chain and see what happens.
[ past meal time and my thoughts are going off in tangents, better end this one and go eat ] :aok
10) Chat rule
* Text chat is only allowed on squad and range (Only in tower)Text. No Chatting on Vox or text on 101 and country chn.
* <S> and good fight is still allowed on country channel and chn 101.
* No check 6’s are allowed at ALL Times!
The spirit of the rule is that you are not allowed to coordinate or assist other players in the fight. If you warn a player you are fighting that another player is coming, that is a check 6, and should be considered aiding another player against another.
I will state for the record that I think the passive communication and ganging that happens in KOTH degrades the event. Allowing VOX and IDs puts too much pressure on moderators to be aggressive in enforcing the spirit of not cooperating and "winging" by calling players out. If VOX silent, and IDs were removed the event would eliminate the possibility and hence perception of infractions. There is no need for VOX, or IDs during flight in KOTH, so why have them?
Because TC narrates and gives warnings and check 6s against the rules, I choose not to participate. It's Fuseman's event, and he way feel this is a nuanced concept and he likes it the way it is. I respect his right to run it his way. :salute
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You should really go back and thoroughly re-read the rules, because as of now and your recent post, you have not provided proof that I have violated any of the KOTH event rules
You are twisting the wording and are selectively picking at the rules to make it seem like you have caught me breaking the rules
When I have more time, I will make another post showing you where you are misinturpeting the rules that you are claiming that I broke....and just so you know, I sent a personal message to KOTH CM's to tell them that you starting this thread is because you in some way got upset thinking that I was breaking the rules and that you thought the KOTH CM's were playing favorites in which they are not and that they don't play favorites to no-one!
I stand by my statements
When I am at fault and I break a KOTH event rule(ex- break alt limit) or come close to crossing the line-ex. Running out of ammo with 3 or more still fighting, I immediately Tower out, that's how much I respect the event and it's rules
I would also think that if I was in the wrong, the KOTH CM's would have already posted correcting me on where I am wrong!
I will try to find time this evening to show you where you are misinturpeting the rules, got to go fix dad's lunch and do his vitals, meds and insulin shots
TC
(see why I sent that PM, I expected that this was coming)
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Hey fuzeman,
Dundee did not say anything about KOTH
It was Vinkman that brought it up
He claims that I cheat because I have always voiced to other participants that I was joining the fight or that I would tell others that I might be dogfighting/engaged with that another player was coming in to either try and pick us off as we kept fighting-%:
Ever since I participated in KOTH back in AirWarrior all the way until now, I have done this....
There is no rule(s) that says this is not allowed, and finally, I have never been warned or called out about doing it
Vinkman showed up to a KOTH event recently and blew a gasket accusing me of cheating and "narrirating" the game play by calling out where the players and fighting was happening..... This is what vinkman claims
~S~
TC
I sent the above quoted message one month before you started this thread!
My apologies for saying that I sent it to both CMs, I actually thought I had but noticed I had only sent it to fuzeman (not Fuseman! ....but I do know both of them fuzeman and Fuseman ever since Air Warrior)
At this point I don't feel the need nor do I desire to waste any more of my time trying to show you where you are misinturpeting the rules.......
I'm not mad at you Vinkman, I'm just have to much other stuff that requires my attention at this time
~S~
TC
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I have a discussion ongoing with Bruv about a new MOTD, rules, and updating things as 'The Rules' posted above [use your Twilight Zone zone voice here from the episode: 'The Obsolete Man' ] are ob-so-lete and were written when we had range channel IN the tower and other CMs running the event.
Bare with us while we do but feel free to voice opinions and suggestions you think would improve the event.
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I'm just going to stop saying anything PERIOD
and if Vinkman shows up, I will openly tell all of you that he will be the first one I go after every round, since he decided to accuse me of breaking rules and getting a free pass, which is completely untrue!
and I wish Bruv and fuzeman the best, with the new updated rules!
I've always thought of KOTH event as an advanced form of training and I never really needed or cared about being a KOTH event champion/winner
I have nothing else to say at this point in time
~S~
TC
Edit: my perspective of the check 6 rule is: 1st- I have never gave a "check 6" to anyone and if I say "another player is coming" when that other player is 5,000+ yards away from the engagement that I and others are currently in does not fall under the check 6 rule! How can it if they are over 5,000+ yards away and not even engaged or engaging in on any body?
It falls into the SA (situational awareness) part of air combat and I have always done it to teach newer players to pay attention of what is happening, I've never found it to be harmful to the event and there never has been a rule saying that it is not allowed.
Going back to when Skuzzy, Natedog and SuperFly taking a break once a month to fly the Friday afternoon KOTH event and ever since BigMax and Gremlin being the KOTH CM's with all CMs since, participating in the KOTH event rounds.....there never has been an issue until "Vinkman" blowing up and accusing me of cheating and breaking the rules
I call BS
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The same thing goes for when I'm 5,000+ yards away and I am heading to the next closest fight or aircraft.... I announce that I am entering the fight
Again, it is SA and not a check 6
I will add that in doing so, I've experienced that it calms down the players making or fussing about "well you picked me while I was already fighting" accusations
TC
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KOTH coming up so we need to put something down I guess. Not the MOTD or rules but fication from clara on announcing you entering a fight.
I used what we have been doing in the past for many of my thoughts and I can not ever remember a KOTH host complaining or saying stop saying you are entering a fight and I flew them way back in Air Warrior.
Personally my reasoning is too many times I'd get a person waiting to enter a fight saying he didn't want to break up their fight and then a longer, disrupting discussion is required to explain that. Regular participants know that but some newer ones don't. That can not be construed as narrating a fight. As of now only one person has complained but if the majority of KOTH participants want that disallowed then NOW is the time to speak up. That's another way I based KOTH things, if the majority of KOTHers want something changed we'll have a go at it.
I did not make this decision alone, it's NOT MY event. I just run one of them. The KOTH Team had a discussion and came up with this clara-fication. Hope this settles the conTROVersy.
And regarding the rules posted at the top of the forum they are under construction and updating which was needed. Lets not base much on them word for word as we all have the basic understanding of how it goes. I don't want to have to bug Skuzzy and have him edit it until the new stuff is finished but if need be we'll do that.
We will even post it here for discussion too so everyone whom it pertains to can voice their opinion.
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I will follow the KOTH CM's lead and KOTH event rules as I always have....
I will withdraw my statement of if Vinkman shows up, I will openly tell all of you that he will be the first one I go after every round, since he decided to accuse me of breaking rules and getting a free pass...because my goal is not to have any personal grievance with any KOTH participant! or drive players away from the KOTH event!
My goal is to keep the KOTH events going and to hopefully get new participants to keep coming back and invite others to come join in the fun and entertaining great dogfighting that this event has continued to have....
~S~
TC
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Well, you got me cogitating now :headscratch:
Holding part of the reply for further :headscratch:
I 100% agree with "I will state for the record that I think the passive communication and ganging that happens in KOTH degrades the event?" but CM's are limited in what we can do in much of that. Many can't get the 'YOU against EVERYONE ELSE' and vice versa aspect of the event out of their coconuts, they have to help their buddy or squad mate. When we had old range IN Tower coms that was much more discouraged as you got called out and DID NOT disrupt the other fights going on when someone brought up something fishy. How could you stop two telepathic twins who play AH from having passive communication, even if you were standing behind them at the time? Only thing we have is looking at the actions, peer pressure and getting honestly called out by other KOTH participants, and dealt with by CMs when it happens. I think if we tried to eliminate all coms it would just make third party apps flourish in there, I doubt we could all learn or boost our telepathic skills.
TC does NOT narrate the event or fights and if he did he'd be told not to. He does say he's entering the fight and I'll defer to my second line for the moment on that one.
I will argue 100% against the idea this is Fuseman's event, who IS this Fuseman ;)
fuzeman is just another player that asked to host KOTH and be a CM. I've always said it's KOTHers event and we'll put up opinions and discuss them and if the majority of KOTH participants want a change it would be considered and tried, if CMs have the ability to make that change. IF we don't and it's sort of feasible we pass it up the food chain and see what happens.
[ past meal time and my thoughts are going off in tangents, better end this one and go eat ] :aok
:aok All I meant was you put a lot of effort into running it, and the regular players seem to have no issues and I don't want to ruin everyone's good time.
As for TC, yes he says when he's entering a fight, But he also announces who else is entering the fight. "Now Vinkman is coming to join us" was a comment made on more than one occasion. I'm not accusing TC of cheating...I'm saying he shouldn't give check sixes. :salute
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I'm just going to stop saying anything PERIOD
and if Vinkman shows up, I will openly tell all of you that he will be the first one I go after every round, since he decided to accuse me of breaking rules and getting a free pass, which is completely untrue!
and I wish Bruv and fuzeman the best, with the new updated rules!
I've always thought of KOTH event as an advanced form of training and I never really needed or cared about being a KOTH event champion/winner
I have nothing else to say at this point in time
~S~
TC
Edit: my perspective of the check 6 rule is: 1st- I have never gave a "check 6" to anyone and if I say "another player is coming" when that other player is 5,000+ yards away from the engagement that I and others are currently in does not fall under the check 6 rule! How can it if they are over 5,000+ yards away and not even engaged or engaging in on any body?
It falls into the SA (situational awareness) part of air combat and I have always done it to teach newer players to pay attention of what is happening, I've never found it to be harmful to the event and there never has been a rule saying that it is not allowed.
Going back to when Skuzzy, Natedog and SuperFly taking a break once a month to fly the Friday afternoon KOTH event and ever since BigMax and Gremlin being the KOTH CM's with all CMs since, participating in the KOTH event rounds.....there never has been an issue until "Vinkman" blowing up and accusing me of cheating and breaking the rules
I call BS
you put words in my mouth and now you are getting upset by the words you made up. Please don;t speak for me, because you do a very poor job of it.
See my above post is the following quote a violation or not?
"Lookout, here comes Vinkman into our fight."
If the moderator thinks it isn't than there is no issue. Again, I never accused you of cheating, I just don't know why you would make statement like that in a KOTH, and defend making it. Maybe you don't realize you call out approaching players too. So I have no gripe. But if you want to come for me first you'll know who I am because ICONs are active. Good luck :salute
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Dang shame you weren't at any September KOTH events
I showed up to both just to back up a statement I had made but thought I'd went to far with it in reply# 20
But not knowing how many people actually saw what I posted before removing it, I had to back my talk with my walk!
No worries and it's all good, Vinkman
~S~
TC
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I can understand being upset that someone announced another player entering a fight if you're that other player coming in. I don't think its stated specifically in the rules.
I, like TC do announce I'm coming in and even what direction I'm coming from.
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I still have to say to people when you get to a fight enter it.
1] So we do not say I'm entering your fight and have a guy fly around the fight, avoiding it and then having a long minute discussion on the event and why he should have entered it.
2] We say I'm coming in and eliminate the fight avoiding. And if you don't see a guy entering the fight your SA is pretty bad.
ON the whole this dead horse is beaten enough