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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Puma44 on October 25, 2018, 02:23:21 PM

Title: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: Puma44 on October 25, 2018, 02:23:21 PM
So, here were we are one cold February day in Colorado.  Our mission was to accomplish a practice annual instrument check for one of the pilots assigned to ADCOM (Air Defense Command) Headquarters in down town Colorado Springs at Ent Air Force Base (now the United States Olympic Training Facility). These headquarters peuks, as we affectionately called them, and they called themselves, were desk jockeys with flying slots.  So, they had the same training squares and check ride requirements as we did in the flying squadron.  They spent most of their time pushing desk drawers and were therefore less proficient than us regular squadron guys.

I was a fairly new qualified IP (Instructor Pilot) in the T-33 and drew the practice instrument check duty for this sortie.  As such, I would sit in the front seat, do the start, taxi, and take off.  At some point after takeoff, he would pull the instrument hood from its stowed position behind his seat, extend it over his head forward to the top edge of his rear cockpit instrument panel and snap it in place.  This would completely block the outside world and “encourage” him to fly solely on instruments.  This is exactly how he would fly his instrument check ride with the SEFE (Standardization Evaluation Flight Examiner).  In this picture, the “bag” (instrument flying hood) can be seen in it’s stowed position at the back of the canopy.

(https://i.postimg.cc/fRnv3tkm/24605-C0-F-3-DA8-457-B-9047-4-AC732-F13-AC8.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)free screen capture software (https://postimages.org/app)


We would fly the short distance to Buckley ANG (Air National Guard) Base on the southeast side of Denver to shoot various instrument approaches.  Buckley had a good variety of different instrument approaches and made for a good work out for the guy under the hood.

As we departed Colorado Springs, the weather was 8-10,000 feet overcast with light winds.  A fairly typical winter day.  The forecast was for a winter storm front to move in late in the day, well after our morning flight.

After taxi and take off, I checked in with the radar departure controller and he vectored us toward Buckley.  My “victim” voluntarily decided it was time to get under the hood. When he told me the hood was in place, we transferred aircraft control as pre briefed.  My job from here on was to monitor his performance, clear for other traffic, communicate with the air traffic controllers, and throw in tidbits from my vast knowledge base as a First Lieutenant Instructor Pilot.  My “victim” was an old head, crusty Major with a ton of experience in ADCOM and was previously an F-106 pilot.  He had easily forgotten ten times more about flying than I had amassed in my whole 24 years of life.  This was a great opportunity for me to watch and learn from a master.

We were vectored into the instrument approach pattern at Buckley and promptly got at it.  The Major flew a nice first approach, executed the published missed approach procedure, climbed up to the assigned traffic pattern altitude, and got ready for a different type of instrument approach.  At this point we would transfer aircraft control, I would fly for a few minutes to give him a break, and time to get the next instrument approach “plate” displayed and ready.  The instrument approach plates were in a small book with various approaches for airports all over the continental US and Canada.  An example of an instrument approach plate at Buckley:

(https://i.postimg.cc/rFQ8sWfY/3-B9-C3-A44-279-A-4772-AE45-F3-F770-E71-B6-E.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

We continue flying around the instrument pattern doing different approaches.  He’s doing well and the air is smooth, until the third approach.  The clouds are starting to cover the mountains west of Denver, it’s starting to get a bit bumpy, and the surface winds at Buckley are starting to increase and get gusty.  We’ve got plenty of gas and didn’t plan for an alternate due to the good weather at the Springs and the “forecast” through the afternoon hours.  Even if the weather came down rapidly we could get back to the Springs and Pueblo was a short flight to the south.  It was clear and calm in Pueblo.

Then it starts spitting rain that was sort of sticking to my windshield.  As he’s flying the next approach, totally oblivious to what’s going on outside, the ceiling is dropping, it’s getting bumpier, and we are starting to pick up some very light ice.  The picture out toward the mountains is less than inviting.  I can see the cloud deck rolling over the crest of the Rockies and down the valleys to the east. 

The T-33 was able to to accumulate a fair amount of ice and continue flight safely.  But, we were accumulating ice rapidly.  The wing tip tanks had a white cap of ice which was more visible because of the flat black paint on the inner side of the tanks.  The wings quickly went from a thin coat of shiny ice to a rough texture.  On the nose in front of me was a flat blade UHF radio antenna.  It had gone from its normal shark fin appearance to a rough, rounded, softball sized appearance.  This all occurred during the short span of the final portion of the instrument approach.  In the back, he was fighting to maintain the approach criteria, not uncommon in bad weather.  But this was his sixth approach and he was getting tired.

We went missed approach and I asked the approach controller for vectors back to the Springs.   We transferred control of the jet so I could fly and let him rest, with the plan for him to fly the approach into the Springs where we would land and call it a day.  Enroute to the Springs, I dialed in ATIS (Automatic Terminal Information Service) which continuously broadcasts the current, or updated weather over a dedicated frequency for the airport.  Our 8-10,000 foot overcast was now 800 feet overcast with strong gusty winds out of the south and snow flurries west and northwest.  Upon hearing this, the Major says, “OH NO, NOT THAT DAMN DME ARC TO THE BACK COURSE ILS!” Back then, the back course ILS was the only approach to the south on the single runway at Colorado Springs.  Because of the rapidly rising terrain of the Black Forrest to the north, there was a curving DME (Distance Measuring Equipment) arc from the east that brought aircraft around to the final approach course for landing to the south.  Although the plate depicted below is for an ILS, back in the day it was a Back Course Localizer.  This plate gives you an idea of the DME arc and associated high terrain to the north.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Qtk2PGPn/DF467821-E3-D1-4660-BFBD-FB83-B5-EC34-ED.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

This was truly the most hated and dreaded instrument approach in all of the airports in the US and Canada. 


Because of the T-33’s very antiquated instrument equipment, this was a very difficult approach to fly even in the best of conditions.  The Major was not at all looking forward to flying this approach.  It was understandable because of his proficiency level in the jet due to his staff peuk job.  I, on the other hand, had flown this dreaded approach dozens of times and was relatively comfortable with it.  Not a favorite, but doable.  I told him to relax, stow the bag, and I would fly the approach. We’re now in the weather, accumulating even more ice, but the T-bird was stable, with power settings normal for the airspeed, and flying as well as could be expected in the now constant turbulence. 

We are vectored to the IAF ( Initial Approach Fix), the beginning of the full approach procedure, and beginning of the dreaded DME arc.  The weather is getting progressively worse and the ice is still accumulating.  The blade antenna on the nose in front of me now looks more like a grapefruit.  The leading edges of the tips tanks are now solid white.  The leading edges of the wings  looked pretty ugly and I quit checking them.  My inner being thought of “It would be a good idea to add about 20 knots to the computed normal approach speed to compensate for the ice” seems like a good idea.  I agreed with myself and did so after configuring for landing.  We worked our way around the DME arc and intercepted the final approach course for runway 17 at the Springs.

The final approach required a couple of altitude step downs for terrain clearance.  We accomplished those and should be breaking out of the ATIS reported weather ceiling.  Still in the thick of it, I’m mentally preparing for a missed approach and diversion to Pueblo about 20 minutes south.  We break out of the weather at about 600 feet.  I’m carrying 20 knots of extra airspeed and fly to the runway a little lower than normal for some extra safety factor, and start slowly reducing power.  The ice bound T-33 was done!  With that initial power reduction and resulting airspeed reduction, it completely dropped out of the sky that last few inches to the runway.  As I’m keeping the jet tracking straight on the now icing up runway with gusty south to southwest winds, the thought that maybe 20 knots extra wasn’t enough, came to mind.

We taxied in and parked on the ramp at our assigned spot.  As the crew chief parked and chocked us, surrounding crew chiefs, and maintenance guys started surrounding our “Ice Bird”.

We shut down, safetied the ejection seats, and climbed down.  The ice accumulation was far worse than I realized.  Everything front facing had a thick coat of clear and rhime ice.  The landing gear were so iced up, it was doubtful they would have retracted if we went missed approach.  The engine inlets had so much ice, the openings were about half normal size.  The engine was equipped with a FOD (Foreign Object Damage) screen in front to prevent stuff off the ramp, birds during flight, etc from going down the turbine section and causing a bad day.   The screen was like super chicken fence in appearance.  The normally large squares in the screen were reduced to the diameter of a finger nail.  Behind the cockpit, on the back of the fuselage, were a pair of long rectangular plenum chamber doors.  The purpose of these doors was to provide additional cooling for the engine during ground ops.  On the ground, the doors would automatically open via suction and intake additional air to the engine.  Those guys at Lockheed were quite clever.  Anyhow, the plenum chamber doors were both frozen open with ice.  No telling how long they were like that during flight. 

The assembled crowd started chipping at the ice with screw drivers and hammers to no avail.  The ice was too thick, the temperature had fallen below freezing, and it was now snowing.

Note to young 1st Lieutenant Instructor Pilot self:  “You should have RTBed (Return To Base) at the first indication of ice and rapidly failing weather forecast.  DO NOT DO THAT AGAIN.  We can always schedule another practice ride for the headquarters peuk.”

An interesting bit of aviation trivia that I learned later in the F-106:  At 400 knots and above the skin temperature caused by air flow friction prevents ice from accumulating. 

That, of course, didn’t apply in the T-33.

“God looks after fools and fighter pilots”.





















Title: Re: God Look After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: Oldman731 on October 25, 2018, 02:47:00 PM
Upon hearing this, the Major says, “OH NO, NOT THAT DAMN DME ARC TO THE BACK COURSE ILS!”


Heh.  Amazing how much GPS has changed things.  Back-course AND DME arc with mountains must have been something.

You jet people fly into ice all the time, so I'm told.  Not us wee folk.  I was coming back from Boston in the Saratoga one night, in IMC, and started picking up ice over eastern Long Island.  Scared the crap out of me - and I was out of it in just a few minutes.  I can't imagine what your experience was like.

Good story, as are they all.  Thanks.

- oldman
Title: Re: God Look After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: Puma44 on October 25, 2018, 02:55:11 PM

Heh.  Amazing how much GPS has changed things.  Back-course AND DME arc with mountains must have been something.

You jet people fly into ice all the time, so I'm told.  Not us wee folk.  I was coming back from Boston in the Saratoga one night, in IMC, and started picking up ice over eastern Long Island.  Scared the crap out of me - and I was out of it in just a few minutes.  I can't imagine what your experience was like.

Good story, as are they all.  Thanks.

- oldman

Thanks Oldman!  :salute

Yeah, ice is no one’s friend anytime, anywhere.  That reminds me of another T-bird story while at CFB Moosejaw, Canada, EH in the wee hours of a “you gotta be kidding me” cold winter night for later.
Title: Re: God Look After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: MiloMorai on October 25, 2018, 03:33:45 PM
High school friend was stationed a Moosejaw. He was an RCAF pilot who died on May 31, 1967. The Tutor jet he was flying apparently ingested a duck causing engine failure. To avoid a residential area, he crash-landed his plane in Columbus ball park. The student pilot also died.

Received the Star of Courage (Posthumous).
Title: Re: God Look After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: Puma44 on October 25, 2018, 03:44:50 PM
High school friend was stationed a Moosejaw. He was an RCAF pilot who died on May 31, 1967. The Tutor jet he was flying apparently ingested a duck causing engine failure. To avoid a residential area, he crash-landed his plane in Columbus ball park. The student pilot also died.

Received the Star of Courage (Posthumous).

Courageous move with sad results.  :salute
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: Shuffler on October 25, 2018, 04:59:47 PM
LOL Outstanding!
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 25, 2018, 05:07:36 PM
 :aok Thanks,Sir! That was a COOL story! How much more ice could the T33 have handled? Sounds like it was getting sketchy :uhoh While not the same...I experienced something along those lines, while driving home to TN one winter night. Folks lived up on top of Mowbray Mnt, in Nw Hamilton Co.(Chattannoga,Tn). It was misting rain and around 39 degrees...NO PROBLEM. Being that they lived on top and the temps and precipitation were CLOSE to Ice conditions...1 bridge to cross WILL FREEZE. Temps at porch 42 and misting/low fog NO PROBLEM :D  We EVERY NOW and THEN experience an Heat Inversion, warmer on Top than in Valley nothing surprising. About 1 mile from the Bridge, SOMEONES fire place smoke was settling way low across the highway, like fog. Well add in the low clouds and its THICK :uhoh Still no big deal. Come through that and Bridge IN VIEW BAM...INSTANT ICE OVER WINDSHIELD. Not a little but almost 1/2 inch....apply breaks...slowly as I know bridge is RIGHT THERE :O Defroster not cutting it AT ALL. Roll down window, hang head out side to see road...AND WHOOSH we on bridge but SIDE WAYS...slide clear to other side and hit NON ICE blacktop...Snap straight back in Highway lane. Was fun!! Lost my Glasses though...that whip back onto high way was as close I will ever get to REAL G's  :rofl My boy in back seat, who WAS asleep says "Do it again. That was SWEET" :rofl
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: Puma44 on October 25, 2018, 05:16:43 PM
:aok Thanks,Sir! That was a COOL story! How much more ice could the T33 have handled? Sounds like it was getting sketchy :uhoh While not the same...I experienced something along those lines, while driving home to TN one winter night. Folks lived up on top of Mowbray Mnt, in Nw Hamilton Co.(Chattannoga,Tn). It was misting rain and around 39 degrees...NO PROBLEM. Being that they lived on top and the temps and precipitation were CLOSE to Ice conditions...1 bridge to cross WILL FREEZE. Temps at porch 42 and misting/low fog NO PROBLEM :D  We EVERY NOW and THEN experience an Heat Inversion, warmer on Top than in Valley nothing surprising. About 1 mile from the Bridge, SOMEONES fire place smoke was settling way low across the highway, like fog. Well add in the low clouds and its THICK :uhoh Still no big deal. Come through that and Bridge IN VIEW BAM...INSTANT ICE OVER WINDSHIELD. Not a little but almost 1/2 inch....apply breaks...slowly as I know bridge is RIGHT THERE :O Defroster not cutting it AT ALL. Roll down window, hang head out side to see road...AND WHOOSH we on bridge but SIDE WAYS...slide clear to other side and hit NON ICE blacktop...Snap straight back in Highway lane. Was fun!! Lost my Glasses though...that whip back onto high way was as close I will ever get to REAL G's  :rofl My boy in back seat, who WAS asleep says "Do it again. That was SWEET" :rofl

 :rofl “Do it again. That was sweet”. From the mouths of babes.

That was the most ice I ever let accumulate.  We were probably pretty close to maxing it out.  The saving grace was being at low altitude and had a head of steam built up going home.  Had we been up at cruise altitude, that much ice would have had us coming down hill at an expeditious rate, whether we wanted to or not.
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: JimmyD3 on October 25, 2018, 11:05:24 PM
 :aok

Enjoyed your story Puma very much so.  :salute

Used to watch the T-33's at Elmendorf  AFB taking of and landing, our Teletype maintenance shop was on the Flight line. Lol we would run out and watch the C-5's taking off or landing as well.
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: Puma44 on October 25, 2018, 11:11:43 PM
Thanks Jimmy!  :salute
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: icepac on October 26, 2018, 03:34:48 AM
Had you gone for more power, the mostly blocked inlets could have caused the engines to deliver substantially less power than the throttle setting you used for "extra 20kts" and proper sink rate.

Engine inlets that are iced up even on PT-6s will perform normally unless you command more power than than the inlet can handle without a huge pressure drop.    If you go beyond it, it falls on it's face.

If you've experienced this feeling with a car or motorcycle that has a mixture problem, you should have "the feel" that will allow you back off to restore more power instead of firewalling it and getting nothing.
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: save on October 26, 2018, 08:48:46 AM
Thanks Puma, enjoyed your story !
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: morfiend on October 26, 2018, 04:30:17 PM
Puma,

 I saw a T33 just a couple weeks ago,maybe a month now but it was in formation with a CF18...  As I said you had all the fun,but when in Moosejaw did we show you the super secret snowballs?

  You dont want to go to war against the Canuks when they break out those things you're done for!  You know sorta like breaking out a genie..... ;)


  Cant wait to hear about Moosejaw.



    :salute
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: Puma44 on October 26, 2018, 06:58:21 PM
Had you gone for more power, the mostly blocked inlets could have caused the engines to deliver substantially less power than the throttle setting you used for "extra 20kts" and proper sink rate.

Engine inlets that are iced up even on PT-6s will perform normally unless you command more power than than the inlet can handle without a huge pressure drop.    If you go beyond it, it falls on it's face.

If you've experienced this feeling with a car or motorcycle that has a mixture problem, you should have "the feel" that will allow you back off to restore more power instead of firewalling it and getting nothing.

I don’t recall, but does the PT-6 have an alternate air inlet source like the T-33 plenum chamber doors?  Fortunately, the frozen open plenum chamber doors somehow allowed enough air flow and I didn’t experience any hesitation when pushing up the power as needed.  Two different engine technologies involved.  Is the PT-6 an axial flow engine?  I certainly understand what you’re saying though.


Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: Puma44 on October 26, 2018, 07:07:41 PM
Puma,

 I saw a T33 just a couple weeks ago,maybe a month now but it was in formation with a CF18...  As I said you had all the fun,but when in Moosejaw did we show you the super secret snowballs?

  You dont want to go to war against the Canuks when they break out those things you're done for!  You know sorta like breaking out a genie..... ;)


  Cant wait to hear about Moosejaw.



    :salute

I wonder if that was a Canadian style Heritage Flight Demo?  Or could it have been an airshow performer like Gregg Collier (sp) with one of his Tbirds?

I started on the Moosejaw story this morning.  Probably have it ready this weekend.

I don’t recall experiencing the Canuck Super Secret Snowballs.  Just knowing Canadian ingenuity and resilience, it’s probably best.  :D
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: Puma44 on October 26, 2018, 07:08:50 PM
Thanks Puma, enjoyed your story !


Happy you enjoyed it!  :salute
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: Puma44 on October 26, 2018, 07:54:22 PM
Just ran across this picture of a taxiing T-33 with the plenum chambers doors suctioned open. Although only one is visible in the photo, there is another on the other side of the fuselage centerline.

(https://i.postimg.cc/QCRtk8B4/8-C7-DECF0-C35-E-4-A38-B497-05-FE1295-B000.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

.....and see the “One Star” emblem on dark background on the vertical fin?  At the Springs, anytime an O-6 or above flew, maintenance would remove the plain aluminum plate and replace it with the appropriate rank.  My 1st Lt bud and I took exception to that since we were always out cross country.  So, our crew chiefs presented us with a dark blue plate with a silver 1st Lt bar the next time we showed up for a cross country. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/KztxSP4N/F8446-B58-8364-4794-8-A86-D75-EB4-D933-E7.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: icepac on October 26, 2018, 09:42:56 PM
It's a function of the speed of the plane, the shape of the ice, and the amount of reduction in inlet size.

There will be different effects from different designs but, not enough inlet will guarantee loss of ability to produce power.

That colgan plane that went down had big time inlet icing and, when they realized that they were stalling, firewalling the throttles caused the engines to make less power.    Some witnesses reported popping noises which likely means they had compressor stall from one or both as well.   
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: Puma44 on October 26, 2018, 10:23:26 PM
It's a function of the speed of the plane, the shape of the ice, and the amount of reduction in inlet size.

There will be different effects from different designs but, not enough inlet will guarantee loss of ability to produce power.

That colgan plane that went down had big time inlet icing and, when they realized that they were stalling, firewalling the throttles caused the engines to make less power.    Some witnesses reported popping noises which likely means they had compressor stall from one or both as well.   

So, back to my PT-6 questions.
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: icepac on October 27, 2018, 12:27:26 AM
I picked PT6 out of the air but a substantially reduced inlet will "seem ok" until you ask for more power than the inlet can provide air.   

The plane doesn't matter unless it has "auxiliary inlets" as you mentioned that AREN'T iced over.
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: morfiend on October 27, 2018, 12:31:11 AM
I wonder if that was a Canadian style Heritage Flight Demo?  Or could it have been an airshow performer like Gregg Collier (sp) with one of his Tbirds?

I started on the Moosejaw story this morning.  Probably have it ready this weekend.

I don’t recall experiencing the Canuck Super Secret Snowballs.  Just knowing Canadian ingenuity and resilience, it’s probably best.  :D


  We have a flying T33 in the city I live in at the JET museum,we had an airshow a few weeks back so they took her up to show it off. I happen to see it flying on 3 different days.



    :salute
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 27, 2018, 01:34:39 AM
Puma,

 I saw a T33 just a couple weeks ago,maybe a month now but it was in formation with a CF18...  As I said you had all the fun,but when in Moosejaw did we show you the super secret snowballs?

  You dont want to go to war against the Canuks when they break out those things you're done for!  You know sorta like breaking out a genie..... ;)


  Cant wait to hear about Moosejaw.



    :salute
"Super Secret Snow Balls"? I am betting they have a pretty pronounced shade of Yellow...No secret here. How else could one punk somebody in a snow ball fight!!! Well other than molding a rock into the snow ball :uhoh
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: Shuffler on October 27, 2018, 09:48:13 AM
"Super Secret Snow Balls"? I am betting they have a pretty pronounced shade of Yellow...No secret here. How else could one punk somebody in a snow ball fight!!! Well other than molding a rock into the snow ball :uhoh

Snowballs is simply the difference between a snowman and a snowoman.
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: MiloMorai on October 27, 2018, 03:44:11 PM
Making yellow snow is a good way to mess your pants. Damn thing shrikes when exposed to cold air and retracts from between your fingers into your pants.
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: TyFoo on October 27, 2018, 03:55:12 PM
That colgan plane that went down had big time inlet icing and, when they realized that they were stalling, firewalling the throttles caused the engines to make less power.    Some witnesses reported popping noises which likely means they had compressor stall from one or both as well.   

The NTSB published 46 findings in their report and not once did it mention a reduction in aircraft performance due to icing. Post accident analysis shows the aircraft responded, and was well within its operating envelope for the reported icing conditions it encountered which the NTSB considered minimal. The "Probable Cause" only mentions aircrew performance & company related issues associated with the accident and makes no mention of aircraft or engine performance as a contributing factor.
 
So, back to my PT-6 questions.

I am not aware of any PT-6s having an alternate source of inlet air because the design is so effective at handling all but severe icing conditions. That is not to say it doesn't exist as they are used in multiple aircraft applications. The PT-6  incorporates both an Axial flow as well as a single stage Centrifugal compressor in their basic design and I have never heard of it referred to as one design over the other.
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 27, 2018, 06:04:50 PM
Snowballs is simply the difference between a snowman and a snowoman.
:rofl
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: icepac on October 27, 2018, 06:37:22 PM
The colgan guys "got behind" started to stall, and added power which ended up being less than rated power because of the icing.   

Couple this them performing a "zero altitude loss stall recovery" which relies on having excess power available and you end up with it mushing in with throttles firewalled.     They got into that stall with plenty of altitude to save it and rode it in with throttles firewalled and column back with witnesses hearing popping noises.

I knew one of the flight crew from when I worked for colgan and he had zero mechanical aptitude.

Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: Puma44 on October 29, 2018, 10:23:07 AM

  We have a flying T33 in the city I live in at the JET museum,we had an airshow a few weeks back so they took her up to show it off. I happen to see it flying on 3 different days.



    :salute

It’s amazing how many TBirds are still flying.  A great testament to the Lockheed designers for a relatively simple systems configuration and robust airframe.
Title: Re: God Looks After Fools and Fighter Pilots
Post by: MiloMorai on October 29, 2018, 10:58:01 AM
It’s amazing how many TBirds are still flying.  A great testament to the Lockheed designers for a relatively simple systems configuration and robust airframe.

Yes considering it came from the P/F-80 which first flew 74 years ago in Jan 1944.