Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Cramby on December 09, 2018, 11:28:19 AM
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Despite how I feel about the game right now, I still feel Aces High 3 is a great game. Its just the low population count and people doing their best to run away from a fight unless its in their favor that kills the game. There's another flight sim that I play where they will put you in a scenario and you have no choice but to fight and stick to the objective if you want to win. This game on the other hand, just feels pointless. Its not fun flying to a base only to furball with other planes instead of capturing it. A few years back the game could get away with doing that because of high population count. I might come back and I might not but I would probably come back for sure if the maps were smaller. Its pointless having a large map with a small population.
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I dont think smaller maps will solve much of anything. If you leave enough room to run, they WILL run.
I think game play changes are needed to guide players back to engaging in combat. Here are some of the thoughts (https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,395326.msg5244981.html#msg5244981) I had on changes. Im sure there are many others. With the lower numbers players have boiled the game down to the least common denominator and have cut all the corners they can to roll maps. I dont think anyone hates the maps turning over...... unless buzzsaw is next :devil but at least make the players FIGHT to turn over the map. As it is now most bases are "sneak" type missions or over whelming hordes that dont bother to fight, they just plow through avoiding any fight to hit their target.
The fight needs to be put back into the game. The players arent going to change unless HTC makes rule changes that turn the game play in a different direction.
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I'm sorry but the majority of the population of AH seem to me want to win the map
and not just want to fight... at least when I am on...
But that is just my experience... :salute
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I often see battles for bases that go on for hours. Funny how players have different experiences of the same game.
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Ive been out of this game for 2 years now. Ive been back into the forums for the last couple months but honestly Im not reading anything that makes me want to come back. Ive played this game and its predecessor for decades but have never mastered the skills of fighter combat. So I flew bombers. Seeing its not much fun flying yourself and it gets hard to find a mission (Ive never taken the time to learn to put one together) I just log off. I dont care to win every fight but losing every fight isnt fun either. ny $0.02 Skturt
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Everyone has a different view...even if they are seeing the same thing they are viewing it differently...reading the forum and playing the game are 2 completely different worlds...this forum is gloom and doom the game if action every time I'm on with much fun to have...this forum is all messed up do to the gloom and doomers coming here just to sweety
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Ive been out of this game for 2 years now. Ive been back into the forums for the last couple months but honestly Im not reading anything that makes me want to come back. Ive played this game and its predecessor for decades but have never mastered the skills of fighter combat. So I flew bombers. Seeing its not much fun flying yourself and it gets hard to find a mission (Ive never taken the time to learn to put one together) I just log off. I dont care to win every fight but losing every fight isnt fun either. ny $0.02 Skturt
There are ways to fly bombers solo that make a difference. As for the fighter aspect, I would bet that there are more then good fighter stick in the game that would be more then willing to assist you.
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Everyone has a different view...even if they are seeing the same thing they are viewing it differently...reading the forum and playing the game are 2 completely different worlds...this forum is gloom and doom the game if action every time I'm on with much fun to have...this forum is all messed up do to the gloom and doomers coming here just to sweety
A lot of the perception of the game can come from the timezone you are playing in. The game experience can be quite different between playing in 15, 40 or 150 player arena.
US prime time population these days is about the size Euro prime time was years ago. But current Euro prime time population is about half the size the worst us late night numbers had been in 07/08.
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I'm sorry but the majority of the population of AH seem to me want to win the map
and not just want to fight... at least when I am on...
But that is just my experience... :salute
Thats the biggest problem I see. I have no problem with winning the map. I enjoy joining a mission, or defending against one. The problem I see it players AVOID that combat. Mission comes in, 15+ strong, 6 guys up to push back. Attackers get killed off. Attack is all done. No further push, half the time the attacker move to the other side of the map..... looking for an easy base grab.
I often see battles for bases that go on for hours. Funny how players have different experiences of the same game.
Yup, last night we had a good fight going at A26, almost captured it twice. Mean while Knights took 4-5 bases, and the Bish who owned 26 capture most of an island 8-9 base. So much for a win the war attraction there.
Game mechanics need to change to make the fight FOR a base more important than just grabbing another base.
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The game play is what the players make it. It helps to be fun to play with.
The game is essentially the same. It's really the player that runs the course. :salute
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The game play is what the players make it. It helps to be fun to play with.
The game is essentially the same. It's really the player that runs the course. :salute
Exactly! And the players have made it a very watered down version of what the game was.
Correct, the game is the same, but as the world HAS changed, and so has the game, due to the players.
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Correct, the game is the same, but as the world HAS changed, and so has the game, due to the players.
This.
As well as lack of consistent marketing and graphic quality
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This.
This.
As well as lack of consistent marketing and graphic quality
As well as lack of consistent marketing and graphic quality
Salute to you sir! I have to respectfully disagree with you on the graphics part! I feel they did an awesome job in graphics! But then again i have oculus rift
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:banana:
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Cramby is your player name?
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The game has not changed. The players have not changed either and that is the killer part.
The players that we have now are the same players from 10 years ago, only they are 10 years older. We get very little new blood - where are the squeekers? Have you heard one on comms lately? I have not. They are not gone - the game is so old that they went through puberty and are grown men now.
The game itself is still great. Technically, it is better than it ever was. However, games like this need a lively community to make them happen. There is no meaningful or very engaging PvE. We as a community are worn out and decaying old geezers. I have been here since late 2001 - yes, that is 17 friggin years! playing the same game - this is how awesome this game is, but there is a limit even to awesome.
Without a fresh spirit and energy I won’t make it to 20 years of AH. The game has not offered anything new in years. Sure AHIII came along and was much needed, but it is still the same game, same content, same players only older.
Oddly enough, AH has no real competition. Warthunder is an arcade. DCS is a great sim, but poor game (furnall arena is the closest it comes to AH). IL2 has some private servers that can somewhat resemble a persistent arena, but that is it.
AH needs a major reboot that include some meaningful new content to apeal to its vetrans and marketed to new crowds as a new game. Joining a game/community that has been running for 18 years is very intimidating to new and young players that were born after AH1 was released!
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:aok You hit the nail on the head.
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I also joined in 2001. I flew almost continuously for 11 years. I think Bozon is correct.
That being said, I am happy to be back. And I hope HTC keeps up the good work.
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Many places on the map. Find one that suits your purpose.purpose
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War thunder has realistic flight in which I am having a great time doing. It is exactly what fso was suppose to be years ago. It gets straight to the point and you play for points meaning you are more obliged to complete the mission rather than going 20k high in the air picking easy targets
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War thunder has realistic flight in which I am having a great time doing. It is exactly what fso was suppose to be years ago. It gets straight to the point and you play for points meaning you are more obliged to complete the mission rather than going 20k high in the air picking easy targets
FSO is much more than realistic flight model and objectives. Much time is put into each event to ensure the most accuracy possible while keeping playability. It is also about the camaraderie of flying with your squad week in and week out, and working with other squads to accomplish the objectives each month.
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War thunder has realistic flight in which I am having a great time doing. It is exactly what fso was suppose to be years ago. It gets straight to the point and you play for points meaning you are more obliged to complete the mission rather than going 20k high in the air picking easy targets
Like Spikes says;
FSO is so much more.
For me It's a sense of community. Even though it's not on my timezone.(I used to wake wake up for it at 4-5am) It's one of the best remaining parts of what made Aces High great. It is without a doubt the heart of Aces High. That's without the crap that people need it to be "realistic". It's a sense of belonging.
No way that war thunder can imitate that sence of community with the instant fast paced map rounds..
DutchVII
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Everyone has a different view...even if they are seeing the same thing they are viewing it differently...reading the forum and playing the game are 2 completely different worlds...this forum is gloom and doom the game if action every time I'm on with much fun to have...this forum is all messed up do to the gloom and doomers coming here just to sweety
people doing their best to run away from a fight unless its in their favor that kills the game...
Funny Your squad's tactics and many others are summed up in one part of the OPs post.
FSO is much more than realistic flight model and objectives. Much time is put into each event to ensure the most accuracy possible while keeping playability. It is also about the camaraderie of flying with your squad week in and week out, and working with other squads to accomplish the objectives each month.
The restrictions also force a fight, which is what the OP is getting at...Aces High you cant login to the normal MA and expect a good fight. Anyone who disagrees with that doesn't know what a 'good fight' looks like.
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:old: There's another flight sim that I play where they will put you in a scenario and you have no choice but to fight and stick to the objective if you want to win. This game on the other hand, just feels pointless. Its not fun flying to a base only to furball with other planes instead of capturing it.<--- and there you go being forced to play somebody else's way.
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The restrictions also force a fight, which is what the OP is getting at...Aces High you cant login to the normal MA and expect a good fight. Anyone who disagrees with that doesn't know what a 'good fight' looks like.
In that case I'm not sure what the OP wants. Yes, FSO presents a controlled fight over particular objectives, which is what everyone wants in order to maximize the amount of fun for the night. Perfectly even quick fights over objectives are fine in War Thunder, but where's the history? Where's the immersion? That is what FSO and Scenarios offer that is a cut above the rest.
I don't find any trouble finding a fight in the MA. I've popped in a few nights a week to check it out and there's always a couple nice sized dar-bars. It might not be a perfectly even and balanced 5K and lower fight with no cherry-picking Doras and Ponies, but a fight nonetheless.
I'm just saying his perception of FSO is incorrect.
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the game has also gotten more verbally toxic- certain players and you all know who they are-berate and cuss with abbreviated curse words such as POS and I think we all know who uses that the most. I see new names all the time almost every day, I don't know if they are shades-returning players or new players, but who wants to get cussed out for shooting someone down. someone is always calling someone else a cheat- one player has been calling out players having a cheat code we all know he's joking but a new player may not.
a couple of you countries are not teaching new players. I've seen players dropping troops on the field instead of town--running troops on towns when its still blue-red-green flagged.
certain players take this game too seriously. I was in a tank a lot last night 2 or 3 times I got killed while carrying 4 or 5 kills I didn't get mad. my tank gets bombed all the time I don't get mad.
it's not productive to cuss people out.
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...Aces High you cant login to the normal MA and expect a good fight. Anyone who disagrees with that doesn't know what a 'good fight' looks like.
I find good fights.... They are not usually balanced but If I am challenging myself it is a good fight.... do I get p'd off with some of the tactics...yeah for sure....no one likes to get slapped over and over again.... but I do find my share of good fights most times I am on.... It is different for sure.... and I would like to see more numbers thus more variation...but to say it is totally no good is just a perception.... come back in Junky and show us the way...
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the game has also gotten more verbally toxic- certain players and you all know who they are-berate and cuss with abbreviated curse words such as POS and I think we all know who uses that the most. I see new names all the time almost every day, I don't know if they are shades-returning players or new players, but who wants to get cussed out for shooting someone down. someone is always calling someone else a cheat- one player has been calling out players having a cheat code we all know he's joking but a new player may not.
a couple of you countries are not teaching new players. I've seen players dropping troops on the field instead of town--running troops on towns when its still blue-red-green flagged.
certain players take this game too seriously. I was in a tank a lot last night 2 or 3 times I got killed while carrying 4 or 5 kills I didn't get mad. my tank gets bombed all the time I don't get mad.
it's not productive to cuss people out.
Unfortunately the art of smack talk has died....this is true
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look it's simple-do you want to find a fight? then join the Knights we are always getting attacked. last night a Knight flew to a enemy base you could count 6 red dots taking of to get him. Knights are a favorite target.
example. when a new map comes up whose strats get hit 1st, Knights, because we are the best, and everybody want's to fight the best :D
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Unfortunately the art of smack talk has died....this is true
yep talking smack has been lost and has been replaced with cussing people out-berating them whining and crying, calling people cheats, they can't just take there loss and move on. some of these players have an ego that they think they are so good that they shouldn't get shot down and are shocked when they do.
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Oddly enough, AH has no real competition. Warthunder is an arcade. DCS is a great sim, but poor game (furnall arena is the closest it comes to AH). IL2 has some private servers that can somewhat resemble a persistent arena, but that is it.
Which is an interesting point. Why do you think that is? I'm sure the IL2 guys could find the technical talent to put up a persistent world. I wonder if the cost/revenue ratio is just higher for larger volume standalone offline.
:salute
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Which is an interesting point. Why do you think that is? I'm sure the IL2 guys could find the technical talent to put up a persistent world. I wonder if the cost/revenue ratio is just higher for larger volume standalone offline.
:salute
It's simple. Open world capture the map ongoing PvP is not as popular as rounds based stuff like WT or IL2. There were a lot of people playing AH at its height that were tolerating the open world map because there were no viable alternatives. Once alternatives came along that were more instant action, they jumped ship.
Wiley.
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It's simple. Open world capture the map ongoing PvP is not as popular as rounds based stuff like WT or IL2. There were a lot of people playing AH at its height that were tolerating the open world map because there were no viable alternatives. Once alternatives came along that were more instant action, they jumped ship.
Wiley.
I think there is a lot of truth to that.
I have to admit to having the same impulse. After playing Battlefield for 10 years, it's really hard to take a 15 minute flight (which feels like eternity) to find a good fight, get killed instantly because I suck, and then face a long flight again to get another try.
Compared to the gameplay people get exposed to elsewhere, that can feel almost like .... drudgery.
Talk about timid game play? I don't think people fear dying or hurting their score, I think they fear getting sent back to the hangar and having to face another long boring flight to get back to some fun. The pace of action is really different from what people are used to.
It's great if you are in to that. I used to do it. I just find the pace really slow now. I guess I've gotten spoiled.
Combat Tour would have been a good alternative to this. Putting you smack into a micro scenario, in flight, with action right ahead of you.
Combat Tour.....If I had to put a finger on when I felt the momentum of this game shift, it is when they tabled Combat Tour. Maybe it was coincidence, but that's when it started to feel like the air letting out of a tire. I hope they eventually get that going. That could be a real market differentiator and maybe appeal to more people than can tolerate the long-form game-play.
:salute
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It's simple. Open world capture the map ongoing PvP is not as popular as rounds based stuff like WT or IL2. There were a lot of people playing AH at its height that were tolerating the open world map because there were no viable alternatives. Once alternatives came along that were more instant action, they jumped ship.
Wiley.
Multiplayer in Il2 is not round based in the same sense as War Blunder. Servers have a set time limit for a map reset - 2 hours for example, but eill also reset after the victory conditions are met before that time is up.
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I think there is a lot of truth to that.
I have to admit to having the same impulse. After playing Battlefield for 10 years, it's really hard to take a 15 minute flight (which feels like eternity) to find a good fight, get killed instantly because I suck, and then face a long flight again to get another try.
Compared to the gameplay people get exposed to elsewhere, that can feel almost like .... drudgery.
Talk about timid game play? I don't think people fear dying or hurting their score, I think they fear getting sent back to the hangar and having to face another long boring flight to get back to some fun. The pace of action is really different from what people are used to.
It's great if you are in to that. I used to do it. I just find the pace really slow now. I guess I've gotten spoiled.
Well, that's the thing. For some people, that's what they want and that's great. For the most part long term I'd much rather play this or Planetside 2 or something like Elite Dangerous instead of something like WT or Counterstrike. I take breaks where I more or less only fly FSO and squad night, but I always circle back eventually.
Combat Tour would have been a good alternative to this. Putting you smack into a micro scenario, in flight, with action right ahead of you.
Combat Tour.....If I had to put a finger on when I felt the momentum of this game shift, it is when they tabled Combat Tour. Maybe it was coincidence, but that's when it started to feel like the air letting out of a tire. I hope they eventually get that going. That could be a real market differentiator and maybe appeal to more people than can tolerate the long-form game-play.
:salute
I just don't see what CT would bring that isn't covered by the stuff like WT.
Wiley.
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Multiplayer in Il2 is not round based in the same sense as War Blunder. Servers have a set time limit for a map reset - 2 hours for example, but eill also reset after the victory conditions are met before that time is up.
It still sets a much different tone than a time limit of days.
Wiley.
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The Pigs will never be seen on ILDoo or War blunder. Those two games simply cannot accommodate us. You are more likely to see us playing Star Trek, Eve online, or maybe as a bunch of Hobbits... We stay here for the genre and the arena size.
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I just don't see what CT would bring that isn't covered by the stuff like WT.
I only played with WT about 30 min. Maybe I didn't set it up right, but there didn't seem to be any real flight model. I ain't using a mouse to fly. It seems like everything was locked into two dimensional maneuvers.
I want a real flight model for the action part, I just don't want a 20 min climb out.
I don't want a mindless furball lake, I want there to be a goal to achieve and a way to measure victory or defeat.
I want the entire experience from start to finish to last about 30min. Like in Battlefield I can start a match, the action is almost instant, it is intense action for the duration, and one way or another it is over in about 25-30 minutes. I can then leave having won or lost definitively, or choose to play another round.
If Combat Tour could achieve those game-play goals, combined with their flight realism, I think they would have a winner that would appeal to a bigger audience than the current model.
:salute
[edit] Of course, I assume they will always have the arena around for people who prefer that.
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It still sets a much different tone than a time limit of days.
Wiley.
Yes, but the map reset time has very little to do with a different tone. Gameplay in Il2 is SLOWER paced than AH. You spawn at a dispersal area, not on the runway. You have to wait for other friendly aircraft to clear your path to the runway because friendly collisions are always on. The engine start-up are much more lengthy. You can spend minutes on the ground before you are actually flying.
Flight times to targets are similar to AH. but since the only populated multiplayer arenas are full realism arenas, there are no icons of any type in the playable world. Targets can be very difficult to spot - expect to be shot down every sortie by an unseen enemy. Ground targets like tank/truck convoys will require multiple passes just to locate and stationary targets are so heavily defended by auto ack that a solo attack is near suicide.
A typical sortie requires more time invested with a greater risk of death. If AH is too much, then they have no chance in Il2.
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Yes, but the map reset time has very little to do with a different tone. Gameplay in Il2 is SLOWER paced than AH. You spawn at a dispersal area, not on the runway. You have to wait for other friendly aircraft to clear your path to the runway because friendly collisions are always on. The engine start-up are much more lengthy. You can spend minutes on the ground before you are actually flying.
Flight times to targets are similar to AH. but since the only populated multiplayer arenas are full realism arenas, there are no icons of any type in the playable world. Targets can be very difficult to spot - expect to be shot down every sortie by an unseen enemy. Ground targets like tank/truck convoys will require multiple passes just to locate and stationary targets are so heavily defended by auto ack that a solo attack is near suicide.
A typical sortie requires more time invested with a greater risk of death. If AH is too much, then they have no chance in Il2.
Been playing with IL2 for a while now and haven't laid a round on an enemy plane...and I am killed every sortie by unseen enemy
It took me 2 day just to take off in IL... :bhead
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I just don't see what CT would bring that isn't covered by the stuff like WT.
From what I recall (and please bear with me 'cause my recall ain't what it was and it never was all that), CT was supposed to be more of an immersive feel with players actually 'role-playing' what it was like to be a pilot in WWII (selecting a specific nation to fight for, rising up the ranks, etc.). I've never played WT. Is that what they do there? Is it a game where you immerse yourself in a WWII environment and virtually become a pilot (or even other type of combatant) and struggle to survive the war and earn medals and rank and stuff on the way (virtual glory)?
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The Pigs will never be seen on ILDoo or War blunder. Those two games simply cannot accommodate us. You are more likely to see us playing Star Trek, Eve online, or maybe as a bunch of Hobbits... We stay here for the genre and the arena size.
I know .... someone .... ummmm .... that has 25 characters in STO. It's amusing to some degree. That fella is waitin' for his desktop to be functional. ;)
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Scale, time, and activity should be something you can create a formula to design terrains for the MA. With my three terrains back to back over two years, I saw that formula for this open world environment. Aces High has been unique in it's scale versus the competition. Unless all you want to do is sign in, then mindlessly furball like an arcade game, the MA as it has played for 20 years has to be large. The scale is needed so furballing, tanking, bombing, CVing and territory capture can happen at the same time. Either all together at one spot or, five seperate activity groups doing their thing oblivious of each other. That is the nature of sand box worlds with few structured activities other than imagination.
The smaller you make the arena, the more arcadeish the game becomes due to compressing the country populations so it's easy to constantly get at people. Kind of like the furball island on NDisles when all the knights decided to play there swamping the smaller numbers of bish and rooks who showed up. Numbers in a small area creates a MOB mentality that has a life of it's own. More often we see this with base captures, when it happens with furballs, it mostly brings out the worst gameplay furball tactics from the winning hoard. And an amazing amount of timid play from that largest group in the furball instead of mass whopping down on the lesser numbers they are hoarded against. I've watched this phenomenon for nearly 20 years. The largest group in the furball with overwhelming odds will not mass attack like an organized fighter sweep by a large squad. Instead they will mill together circling from the ground up to 20k and avoid combat looking for a pick for hours upon boring hours.
So smaller terrains would solve our game play problem? Yet we have 20 years of evidence the smaller the area you jam numbers into, the more they will play badly together becasue of hoard mentality. Remember WT only jams 10 on each side into it's postage stamp arenas for a set period of time. Not much different than our old squad dueling league back in AH2. Hitech would be setting us loose for 24x7 with almost no rules to use our imaginations without even sides like squad dueling did. And it would be three countries, not two teams of 10 or 12 until the last man standing, about 10-15 minutes of piu, piu, piu versus keeping an arena open 24x7.
Here are screens shots, one is my terrain Oceania which is a 10x10 terrain and has activity during prime time when ever it's up. And below it is that terrain reduced to a 5x5. Flying P51 you can easily in a short time harass every enemy field in each country with no place to get away from being griefed on landing or take off on a 5x5. Players with 262 points could easily hang out in your back field waiting for bombers that will be low and slow. Or those P51 hanging out in yours waiting to pick 262 on take off. 5x5 would be Hitech's version of those tiny WT arenas that you have no place to run but, for 24x7. And how would you capture feilds unless everyone simply ignores each other while taking bases. And to meet 20% of each country would be about 3 feilds a piece from the other countries. So the same cast of characters who flip maps in the wee hours would probably spend the night flipping a queue of 5x5 maps all night long. Then the biggy no one wants to hear in this game every time I've brought it up. You need space in this kind of combat game so players can have a buffer from being slaughtered. On that 5x5 version several squads would turn the night into their pet feeding ground and abuse everyone. There would be no buffer space which would drive customers out of the game becasue a small number of players would dictate how they play the game. This would be the furballer's version of those single finger salutes at the end of AH2 by strat runners which kept radar shutdown almost all night. A 7x7 might work, it would be harder on bomber players than fighter players while having scale. Yeah back to that formula for the AH Melee arena.
(https://i.postimg.cc/LXdT5F7R/SmallM01.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Pqvyd5S2/SmallM02.jpg)
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Im thinking now that cannibis is legal in Canuckistan we Canucks will be discovering this game all over again. Who cares if you cant hit anything. ...(You gonna eat that whole bag?)
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Yes, but the map reset time has very little to do with a different tone. Gameplay in Il2 is SLOWER paced than AH. You spawn at a dispersal area, not on the runway. You have to wait for other friendly aircraft to clear your path to the runway because friendly collisions are always on. The engine start-up are much more lengthy. You can spend minutes on the ground before you are actually flying.
Flight times to targets are similar to AH. but since the only populated multiplayer arenas are full realism arenas, there are no icons of any type in the playable world. Targets can be very difficult to spot - expect to be shot down every sortie by an unseen enemy. Ground targets like tank/truck convoys will require multiple passes just to locate and stationary targets are so heavily defended by auto ack that a solo attack is near suicide.
A typical sortie requires more time invested with a greater risk of death. If AH is too much, then they have no chance in Il2.
I disagree. I land a lot of sorties in il2. And I can deack ammo dumps and airfields with out ever being hit and with no map. There are no 17k pickers in that game, because you would never see them. Flight times are the same to target 5-8 mins and action is fast when you get there. Ombers aren’t over powered in there and when you shoot the fuselage it actually has an effect. In the year or so of playing il2 I have had very few people run from a fight only to come back and kill you when you are tied up in fight. I have never had to fly 1940 planes against 1945 planes in il2. There aren’t as many kills like in aces high but the action is definitely there.
I do hate there are no comms in there and hours of fligh are pretty lonely.
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Only 2 sides
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See Rule #4
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AH is still a great game and after being in here for 11 years now, I'm still having a blast with my squaddies; we have no plans on going anywhere.
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I would hate to see AH go away. It's a classic. I remember the days when the servers were just loaded with people.
Keep up the good work HTC
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I would hate to see AH go away. It's a classic. I remember the days when the servers were just loaded with people.
Keep up the good work HTC
See new announcement from HT on what they have been up to.... https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,395450.0.html (https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,395450.0.html)
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I only played with WT about 30 min.
I want a real flight model for the action part, I just don't want a 20 min climb out.
I don't want a mindless furball lake, I want there to be a goal to achieve and a way to measure victory or defeat.
I want the entire experience from start to finish to last about 30min. Like in Battlefield I can start a match, the action is almost instant, it is intense action for the duration, and one way or another it is over in about 25-30 minutes. I can then leave having won or lost definitively, or choose to play another round.
:salute
This is the biggest problem that I feel most players have. Especially for new players. The time it takes to find the fight and be successful in the fight to survive is very long, if you die in the first 3 seconds of enemy contact after flying for 15 minutes, it makes it very tiring. (Which is why I like the idea of a quick fight arena to learn the planes) It's a game of patience and then striking quick like a snake. Like you said. Most people just run away because they don't want to spend another 10 minutes climbing out. It's not because of score or anything else. They simply don't know what else to do. That's the problem IMO with so many late war planes in the arena that were designed to be able to escape from fights by extending away. Too many of these planes makes for a slower atmosphere. That's why I like WW2 planes over jet fighting. Close quarter fights make better action for all players.
It's not the size of the map necessarily, but I do believe that if 3 sides can fight against each other, it makes for better fights. Also, smaller fronts would make for better fights. A "path to action" using hills and valleys would help a lot for players to have a path for base taking. Even if you can't get a squad or a mission together, players flying in the same general area will be able to communicate what they want to do. There needs to back bases that players can roll from to defend a field under attack. A back base that isn't going to take 15 minutes to fly from. Back bases are the real way to defeat the horde.
I find that most people really don't understand how the MA works nor take the time to better their ACM and become better at the MA. Do I wish less people would gang in Yak3s and La7s? Sure... Do I wish everyone was nice? Sure. But the MA is pure 100% kill or get killed and that makes it very competitive. This is how nature is Every plane has it's own advantage. It's about playing smart and shooting planes or tanks or buildings down without getting ganged or killed. Its about understanding E and advantage, pushing your plane to the limit. Understanding the planes around you and the pilots limit. Staying away from your planes weakness. No other air combat game has that.
This is not a 5v5 skirmish where everything is "fair" and "balanced".
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See if Hitech is interested in a Titanic Tuesday with a 5x5 terrain in the MA. One night a week will take a month for small groups to learn how to abuse the arena at will.(or less.... :confused: ) It would be different, I'm not sure if it would be attractive to many of the older vets being forced into a none stop fight with almost no place to get out from under it to regroup and find easier fights like 10x10 terrains.
Cramming 140 players into a 5x5 will make all activity initiatives easy to interfere with by half a dozen or so players in late war monsters. Land grabbers and bomber players would be easy targets for them since distances would be so close, effectively making anyone toting bombs a half crippled low easy target. Fights generated out of any land grabbing would resemble the center island on NDisles when someone tries to capture one of three super large airfields on the coast. It would favor squads with ACM only players who would make the less talented player base feel griefed and hopeless to achieve kills. The ACM players would have a blast......
Most people who play combat games are not playing the game for the pure raw challenge of the fight. They will leave the game if their ability to avoid constant fighting dictated by others is reduced below their tolerance levels. The creators of Fortnite understand this and why they have an arena for those who are not playing for constant combat and a King of the Hill arena for the combat junkies. Hitech for years has given us arena options other than the MA to try and feed the two needs. So I'm not sure if Hitech would really go for a one night a week 5x5 MA in which the fight junkies would have a feild day on everyone else in such a restricted space. A two country terrain is effectively the same for fight junkies. Even today I watch people avoid the bish when they have 60 while everyone else has maybe 30. On a 5x5 that would be over powering even if all the bish could fly was Mid War monsters. Numbers and time to turn around to a fight matter if you cannot regroup 6 sectors away to start a new fight.
Still it would not be hard for me to export Oceania, pull out the central 5x5, re-import, add some backfeild and repaint it while adding feilds. With a 5x5 it's so small, you would only need the HQ and the City if it was possible for Hitech to add a 5x5 strat function that uses the City health for all the resupply\rebuild functions of the 5 strats we normally lay down. And I would leave the single ports with both CV and BB to be naughty since a 5x5 in the MA is naughty itself.
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those asking for smaller maps havent logged in early in the morning when bishops roll base after base to win the war. make it easier for them to win 2 or 3 maps in the morning every day.
semp
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See if Hitech is interested in a Titanic Tuesday with a 5x5 terrain in the MA. One night a week will take a month for small groups to learn how to abuse the arena at will.(or less.... :confused: ) It would be different, I'm not sure if it would be attractive to many of the older vets being forced into a none stop fight with almost no place to get out from under it to regroup and find easier fights like 10x10 terrains.
Cramming 140 players into a 5x5 will make all activity initiatives easy to interfere with by half a dozen or so players in late war monsters. Land grabbers and bomber players would be easy targets for them since distances would be so close, effectively making anyone toting bombs a half crippled low easy target. Fights generated out of any land grabbing would resemble the center island on NDisles when someone tries to capture one of three super large airfields on the coast. It would favor squads with ACM only players who would make the less talented player base feel griefed and hopeless to achieve kills. The ACM players would have a blast......
Most people who play combat games are not playing the game for the pure raw challenge of the fight. They will leave the game if their ability to avoid constant fighting dictated by others is reduced below their tolerance levels. The creators of Fortnite understand this and why they have an arena for those who are not playing for constant combat and a King of the Hill arena for the combat junkies. Hitech for years has given us arena options other than the MA to try and feed the two needs. So I'm not sure if Hitech would really go for a one night a week 5x5 MA in which the fight junkies would have a feild day on everyone else in such a restricted space. A two country terrain is effectively the same for fight junkies. Even today I watch people avoid the bish when they have 60 while everyone else has maybe 30. On a 5x5 that would be over powering even if all the bish could fly was Mid War monsters. Numbers and time to turn around to a fight matter if you cannot regroup 6 sectors away to start a new fight.
Still it would not be hard for me to export Oceania, pull out the central 5x5, re-import, add some backfeild and repaint it while adding feilds. With a 5x5 it's so small, you would only need the HQ and the City if it was possible for Hitech to add a 5x5 strat function that uses the City health for all the resupply\rebuild functions of the 5 strats we normally lay down. And I would leave the single ports with both CV and BB to be naughty since a 5x5 in the MA is naughty itself.
Well, like I said, it's not necessarily how big the overall map is. You could have a 5x5 but put bases too far apart and wouldn't make any difference. It's really the base layout and how many fronts the enemies have to attack + the base distance. More fronts typically means more spread out fights which can make them smaller. Far bases means far flights. Far bases suck for new players. People having a path of action really enhances the fights and flow of the game. Now I'm not saying something gamey should be done to adjust that, I'm just saying that action in the game can be inhanced by attempting to create this concept on new maps. Also, when teams have the ability to all fight each other at the same time. That is typically good for action during the off hours.
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Just a thought ..... and kinda sidebar to the main topic, anyway ....
I wonder if the game could be coded to prevent base capture if there are no defenders? Scratch that. Players would game the game by abandoning defense of bases to prevent capture. What about limiting capture to three bases per front at a time with new bases becoming eligible for capture once bases are captured? For example ..... no never mind ....... that just hurt my head.
Spanish Civil War.
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Just a thought ..... and kinda sidebar to the main topic, anyway ....
I wonder if the game could be coded to prevent base capture if there are no defenders? Scratch that. Players would game the game by abandoning defense of bases to prevent capture. What about limiting capture to three bases per front at a time with new bases becoming eligible for capture once bases are captured? For example ..... no never mind ....... that just hurt my head.
Spanish Civil War.
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,394732.msg5237841.html#msg5237841
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It depends what I am doing in the real world when I play AH.
Don’t remember AH getting poo?
Low numbers are gibberish, when I log on there is always the same amount as usual.
Who ever started this thread needs to get out more
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The game has not changed. The players have not changed either and that is the killer part.
The players that we have now are the same players from 10 years ago, only they are 10 years older. We get very little new blood - where are the squeekers? Have you heard one on comms lately? I have not. They are not gone - the game is so old that they went through puberty and are grown men now.
The game itself is still great. Technically, it is better than it ever was. However, games like this need a lively community to make them happen. There is no meaningful or very engaging PvE. We as a community are worn out and decaying old geezers. I have been here since late 2001 - yes, that is 17 friggin years! playing the same game - this is how awesome this game is, but there is a limit even to awesome.
Without a fresh spirit and energy I won’t make it to 20 years of AH. The game has not offered anything new in years. Sure AHIII came along and was much needed, but it is still the same game, same content, same players only older.
Oddly enough, AH has no real competition. Warthunder is an arcade. DCS is a great sim, but poor game (furnall arena is the closest it comes to AH). IL2 has some private servers that can somewhat resemble a persistent arena, but that is it.
AH needs a major reboot that include some meaningful new content to apeal to its vetrans and marketed to new crowds as a new game. Joining a game/community that has been running for 18 years is very intimidating to new and young players that were born after AH1 was released!
Bozon got the clue. I agree 100 % on this ....
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It's been a while...
I stopped playing about 8 years ago for a variety of reason including burnout (but I have stayed a subscriber to support what is IMO an important niche - the accessible WW2 air combat sim with a focus on realistic flight models). Actually looking to start back up again and I've made a few hops and scored some kills.
While burnout was a factor the "win the war by winning the map" gameplay mode which is still around was a much bigger factor. Time spent looking for a good fight way outweighed the time spent actually having a good fight. Horde warrior is no fun getting gang banged, and for me no fun being part of the gang bang. This is about the 10th time I have posted the following (but not for 8 years) but I believe it hits the core of the issue. There do seem to be more fights now than when I checked out (maybe because some of the casual gamers have left), but there is still much of the same.
FWIW this isn't unique to AH. I left Air Warrior a few months before EA shut it down for the exact same reason. Going way back, though a few years short of Dale and Doug in this regard, AW started off as a combat sim that while it lacked in graphics, and lacked in flight and gunnery models did not lack in fight. Winning the war (not the map, more on that in a bit) was still there but the fight was always on. I took a year off from burnout in the late 1990s or so and during that time the win the war model changed to win the map. The very FIRST flight back was spent chasing planes trying to get in a fight as they made suicidal attacks on fields or milk ran in odd corners only to relocate if any opposition showed up. Sound familiar? It was so dramatic a change that it was immediately noticeable and like an entirely different game.
When I came to AH for the first few years it was like early AW where the fight was concerned even with the AH map focus. That changed, I believe with the first "massive squadron" developments (Thanks Rip!) and huge typhoon raids. It was as if no one had really conceptualized winning the war vs winning the fight until then, and it was a natural outlet for the newer players coming into the game for the early AH marketing efforts.
ACM is much harder than a FPS type game. Becoming competent in 3 dimensions, blackouts and redouts, energy management and most importantly layers of situational awareness takes time and effort. It took me about 6 months in AW back in the day flying against guys who were really, really sharp to finally get a positive KD and that took not just practice for skill but some key conceptual insights as well. For people that grew up reading WW2 books on air combat and the great aces the brutal failure was worth it for a brief glimpse at that experience. For the typical gamer without that connection to history I can only imagine it gets fairly old fairly quickly. More acradish flight models and view systems overcome this to some extent. But, an even better shortcut is the ability to succeed at winning the war vs. winning the fight. And winning the map allows for that.
In AW's original model only the central fields were capturable. The "atoll" for the Pacific map and the "Lake" for the euro map. The rear fields for the countries were not capturable. Points were scored for the amount of time a country controlled the various central bases (which switched back and forth) until the tour timed out a week later. Why this model works is that in order to capture the bases and eventually win the war you HAD to congregate in a central area. That area was big enough for one country to push against another or to fight over a specific base, but small enough that it was much hard to avoid the fight and harder to generate lopsided numbers in some corner of the map during normal hours. Milkrunning did occur but that tended to be in low attendance hours.
The change at AW happened during the Gamestorm era which continued to EA which was sucking big time 20 years ago as well as today. In speaking with the customer support folk about the crash in fun and gameplay with the much more spread out win the map format they said that the pricing change that happened etc. (much cheaper) generated far greater numbers and that the server code could no longer handle concentrated numbers. I would imagine that might be an issue today but a lot of progress has happened. IMO, a return to a similar gameplay, win the war not map model would dramatically improve gameplay.
-
It's been a while...
I stopped playing about 8 years ago for a variety of reason including burnout (but I have stayed a subscriber to support what is IMO an important niche - the accessible WW2 air combat sim with a focus on realistic flight models). Actually looking to start back up again and I've made a few hops and scored some kills.
Dude. Enough of the reminiscing. You're making me feel old. Get your butt back in here.
- oldman
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Dude. Enough of the reminiscing. You're making me feel old. Get your butt back in here.
- oldman
:rofl
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http://www.waronline.com/index.php
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http://www.waronline.com/index.php
Gee - that looks awfully familiar....oh wait! It's made by HiTech Creations too! :D
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Oddly enough, AH has no real competition. Warthunder is an arcade. DCS is a great sim, but poor game (furnall arena is the closest it comes to AH). IL2 has some private servers that can somewhat resemble a persistent arena, but that is it.
There's a persistent server in IL2 called Tactical Air War. The server itself restarts every 3 hours to maintain stability and smooth gameplay. Any losses/gains are reflected in real time and are not affected by the server restart, airfields can even be captured by dropping paratroopers on them. The war starts in the early days of the Battle of Moscow, through Stalingrad then onto Kuban/Crimea. This server is not private.
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Dude. Enough of the reminiscing. You're making me feel old. Get your butt back in here.
- oldman
I am. Good to see ya.
I now have track IR and I'm trying to get used to that. The hat switch and modifier button mappings are still ingrained but I would like to make a full transition. I probably need to spend some time tuning track IR to get it a bit more fluid than it is now for me. Part of that is I'm also excited about getting my jet fix over at DCS (which I don't see as a replacement for AH in the WW2 department) and track IR or VR are a must there as it seems like you need to map every button and another 2-3 controllers worth of buttons just to get a plane off the ground. Interestingly the planes I'm MOST excited about there are the Viggen, F-5 and Skyhawk.
It's probably been a bit longer than 8 years actually. I now have a 12 year old son who I have created an account for and set up a functional control scheme. Have to pry him off Madden and Fortnight.
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There's a persistent server in IL2 called Tactical Air War. The server itself restarts every 3 hours to maintain stability and smooth gameplay. Any losses/gains are reflected in real time and are not affected by the server restart, airfields can even be captured by dropping paratroopers on them. The war starts in the early days of the Battle of Moscow, through Stalingrad then onto Kuban/Crimea. This server is not private.
Could it handle a group as large as the Pigs on one side? :headscratch:
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Could it handle a group as large as the Pigs on one side? :headscratch:
yes
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I know i am very much late from the discussion, but reflecting to the OP and the runners: if you fly a d9, a jug or something simmilar, and diguise yourself as an easy prey, they wont run : )
Something else. Could someone inform me about the numbers, or post an average number chart in peak hours and off hours? Lusche maybe? Thank you in advance!
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debrody a fight only takes 2 guys. while numbers arent 600 like before. i have log in almost every day early in the morning till i get tired. about 8 or 10 hours. i dont play the whole time but i find it fun to still log in every day.
semp
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Something else. Could someone inform me about the numbers, or post an average number chart in peak hours and off hours? Lusche maybe?
Euro prime time is something between 40 and 80 players these days (two hours ago it were 71 players), on a weekend it can push towards 100 near midnight. Worst off hours numbers can go below 20 around noon.
But in the past few months, these numbers have stabilized somewhat.
For peak numbers someone else has to chime in ;)
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I know i am very much late from the discussion, but reflecting to the OP and the runners: if you fly a d9, a jug or something simmilar, and diguise yourself as an easy prey, they wont run : )
Something else. Could someone inform me about the numbers, or post an average number chart in peak hours and off hours? Lusche maybe? Thank you in advance!
I saw 150 on today (Friday) at 8pm est. There was a good map on (newer map) and you didn't have to fly all day to the next base. There were furballs on all 3 sides of the map. Made me think of the old days for a minute. Maps that work well really bring great fights.
If you know what you are doing, you can still get about 25 kills in a 3-5 hour time span.
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At one point this evening the MA had 200 even when I logged in, maybe about 1900 MST.
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http://www.waronline.com/index.php
hmm...still in building mode, I know, but noticed the website is not secured ( https )
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I know i am very much late from the discussion, but reflecting to the OP and the runners: if you fly a d9, a jug or something simmilar, and diguise yourself as an easy prey, they wont run : )
Something else. Could someone inform me about the numbers, or post an average number chart in peak hours and off hours? Lusche maybe? Thank you in advance!
Weeknights its around 150 + or -, weekend 200 + or - Eastern prime time. Those numbers will hold about 3-4 hours. Once the East coast starts loggin off the number just keep dropping.
Some nights you can find a number of good fights going, but if the rolling base horde gets the band back together you can pretty much forget about finding fights. After that its all "pick and run" type crap.
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HUGE FIGHTS GOING ON IN THE MA THIS WEEKEND. THAT GRINDER MAP SPARKING A LOT OF ACTION!
:banana:
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Euro prime time is something between 40 and 80 players these days (two hours ago it were 71 players), on a weekend it can push towards 100 near midnight. Worst off hours numbers can go below 20 around noon.
But in the past few months, these numbers have stabilized somewhat.
For peak numbers someone else has to chime in ;)
Thank you, thats not half as bad as i have imagined, and is definiately better than in 2013.
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Thank you, thats not half as bad as i have imagined, and is definiately better than in 2013.
These days, AH has less than half the numbers online compared to 2013.
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See Rule #4
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These days, AH has less than half the numbers online compared to 2013.
Then its only my senility. The day i cancelled my sub, i logged in at the middle of the afternoon (eu) and there were 7 palyers online. Maybe that was only an exceptionally bad day.
-
It's been a while...
I stopped playing about 8 years ago for a variety of reason including burnout (but I have stayed a subscriber to support what is IMO an important niche - the accessible WW2 air combat sim with a focus on realistic flight models). Actually looking to start back up again and I've made a few hops and scored some kills.
While burnout was a factor the "win the war by winning the map" gameplay mode which is still around was a much bigger factor. Time spent looking for a good fight way outweighed the time spent actually having a good fight. Horde warrior is no fun getting gang banged, and for me no fun being part of the gang bang. This is about the 10th time I have posted the following (but not for 8 years) but I believe it hits the core of the issue. There do seem to be more fights now than when I checked out (maybe because some of the casual gamers have left), but there is still much of the same.
FWIW this isn't unique to AH. I left Air Warrior a few months before EA shut it down for the exact same reason. Going way back, though a few years short of Dale and Doug in this regard, AW started off as a combat sim that while it lacked in graphics, and lacked in flight and gunnery models did not lack in fight. Winning the war (not the map, more on that in a bit) was still there but the fight was always on. I took a year off from burnout in the late 1990s or so and during that time the win the war model changed to win the map. The very FIRST flight back was spent chasing planes trying to get in a fight as they made suicidal attacks on fields or milk ran in odd corners only to relocate if any opposition showed up. Sound familiar? It was so dramatic a change that it was immediately noticeable and like an entirely different game.
When I came to AH for the first few years it was like early AW where the fight was concerned even with the AH map focus. That changed, I believe with the first "massive squadron" developments (Thanks Rip!) and huge typhoon raids. It was as if no one had really conceptualized winning the war vs winning the fight until then, and it was a natural outlet for the newer players coming into the game for the early AH marketing efforts.
ACM is much harder than a FPS type game. Becoming competent in 3 dimensions, blackouts and redouts, energy management and most importantly layers of situational awareness takes time and effort. It took me about 6 months in AW back in the day flying against guys who were really, really sharp to finally get a positive KD and that took not just practice for skill but some key conceptual insights as well. For people that grew up reading WW2 books on air combat and the great aces the brutal failure was worth it for a brief glimpse at that experience. For the typical gamer without that connection to history I can only imagine it gets fairly old fairly quickly. More acradish flight models and view systems overcome this to some extent. But, an even better shortcut is the ability to succeed at winning the war vs. winning the fight. And winning the map allows for that.
In AW's original model only the central fields were capturable. The "atoll" for the Pacific map and the "Lake" for the euro map. The rear fields for the countries were not capturable. Points were scored for the amount of time a country controlled the various central bases (which switched back and forth) until the tour timed out a week later. Why this model works is that in order to capture the bases and eventually win the war you HAD to congregate in a central area. That area was big enough for one country to push against another or to fight over a specific base, but small enough that it was much hard to avoid the fight and harder to generate lopsided numbers in some corner of the map during normal hours. Milkrunning did occur but that tended to be in low attendance hours.
The change at AW happened during the Gamestorm era which continued to EA which was sucking big time 20 years ago as well as today. In speaking with the customer support folk about the crash in fun and gameplay with the much more spread out win the map format they said that the pricing change that happened etc. (much cheaper) generated far greater numbers and that the server code could no longer handle concentrated numbers. I would imagine that might be an issue today but a lot of progress has happened. IMO, a return to a similar gameplay, win the war not map model would dramatically improve gameplay.
Gamestorm was fine and FUN!
Selling out, to EA on the other hand, ducked....
But I am done, looking back.... What matters is what's to come
TC
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Then its only my senility. The day i cancelled my sub, i logged in at the middle of the afternoon (eu) and there were 7 palyers online. Maybe that was only an exceptionally bad day.
Must have been a server reset, in 2013 lowest numbers rarely went below 50. One digit numbers were unheard of back then.
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.....
No one bought VR headsets, so that dev time was wasted.
.....
-Mutha
Quite untrue!
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The game ...
VR headsets,...
-Mutha
I see you're back. :D
VR is awesome. The Rift is currently $350. :aok
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“This game has run its course” only when more time is spent whining and complaining than playing. Simply amazing how much ”who cares” trivia rises to the top.
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“This game has run its course” only when more time is spent whining and complaining than playing. Simply amazing how much ”who cares” trivia rises to the top.
:aok
[/thread]
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See Rule #4
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You're being silly. Have a Merry Christmas. :cheers:
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Merrie X Mas!! :old: :cheers:
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You're being silly. Have a Merry Christmas. :cheers:
You're a good man FLS! Happy Kwanzaa!
-Mutha
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This game continues to entertain and amaze me. It certainly has not 'run it's course" for me. I log in, say hi to my friends, and then make a choice of what I want to do. There is always, always someone to oppose me, another someone to wing with me, and some fun to be had.
I truly feel sorry for those that want to force others to play their way, and for those that think you have to have 100 players within Icon range for it to be considered a fight or to be fun. Or to those that have no patience and need to have those "perfect fights" 5 seconds after the last "perfect fight".
You get to make choices, I choose to be happy.
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This game continues to entertain and amaze me. It certainly has not 'run it's course" for me. I log in, say hi to my friends, and then make a choice of what I want to do. There is always, always someone to oppose me, another someone to wing with me, and some fun to be had.
I truly feel sorry for those that want to force others to play their way, and for those that think you have to have 100 players within Icon range for it to be considered a fight or to be fun. Or to those that have no patience and need to have those "perfect fights" 5 seconds after the last "perfect fight".
You get to make choices, I choose to be happy.
This :aok
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This game continues to entertain and amaze me. It certainly has not 'run it's course" for me. I log in, say hi to my friends, and then make a choice of what I want to do. There is always, always someone to oppose me, another someone to wing with me, and some fun to be had.
I truly feel sorry for those that want to force others to play their way, and for those that think you have to have 100 players within Icon range for it to be considered a fight or to be fun. Or to those that have no patience and need to have those "perfect fights" 5 seconds after the last "perfect fight".
You get to make choices, I choose to be happy.
Well put.
- oldman
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Zoney... I don't like the way youpartyour hair.
:neener:
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Introducing .... "Aces High Party Hair":
(https://2lth8w1uv77536l8d72pqh10-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/1943-U-of-Tenesse-Sigma-NU-yearbooko-mens-hair-1.jpg)
Straight from the 1940s. :D
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This thread is no longer serving any purpose and should be locked.
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:salute Zoney
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This thread is no longer serving any purpose and should be locked.
Oh it served its purpose alright. :D
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This game continues to entertain and amaze me. It certainly has not 'run it's course" for me. I log in, say hi to my friends, and then make a choice of what I want to do. There is always, always someone to oppose me, another someone to wing with me, and some fun to be had.
I truly feel sorry for those that want to force others to play their way, and for those that think you have to have 100 players within Icon range for it to be considered a fight or to be fun. Or to those that have no patience and need to have those "perfect fights" 5 seconds after the last "perfect fight".
You get to make choices, I choose to be happy.
Zoney is not my friend. :old:
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about 2pm est time today I had a guy come in the office, he was very interested in the flight stick I had on my desk. we began discussing it and I explained I play this game. he told me that he did a little flying on line and he was very interested in the game as he had never heard of it. so I fired up the computer and launched a spit 9 in the ma, he wanted to fly a 51d but do to eny I explained we couldn't take that. so any ways I launch a spit 9 get in the air all the while showing him different options of the game. I find a 38, I give chase, 38 runs for almost a sector. well lets go find some one else. flew to where there was a little larger dar theres a 51, I give chase almost 1/2 a sector (total flight time at this point 10 mins). so we loose him. he asks what do you do just chase planes around? I will not type my response but he never asked the name of the game. pretty sad.
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you should have followed the bishops when they were hording bases in the morning. tell him that's what you do personally.
semp
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about 2pm est time today I had a guy come in the office, he was very interested in the flight stick I had on my desk. we began discussing it and I explained I play this game. he told me that he did a little flying on line and he was very interested in the game as he had never heard of it. so I fired up the computer and launched a spit 9 in the ma, he wanted to fly a 51d but do to eny I explained we couldn't take that. so any ways I launch a spit 9 get in the air all the while showing him different options of the game. I find a 38, I give chase, 38 runs for almost a sector. well lets go find some one else. flew to where there was a little larger dar theres a 51, I give chase almost 1/2 a sector (total flight time at this point 10 mins). so we loose him. he asks what do you do just chase planes around? I will not type my response but he never asked the name of the game. pretty sad.
What is the P51B for $500 Alex.
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What is the P51B for $500 Alex.
Good point. Been flying the 51B for a bit, it's a pretty nice plane. Much better guns than the 202, but tricky at low speeds.
I would not expect most pony drivers to be eager to engage a Spit 9.
- oldman
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about 2pm est time today I had a guy come in the office, he was very interested in the flight stick I had on my desk. we began discussing it and I explained I play this game. he told me that he did a little flying on line and he was very interested in the game as he had never heard of it. so I fired up the computer and launched a spit 9 in the ma, he wanted to fly a 51d but do to eny I explained we couldn't take that. so any ways I launch a spit 9 get in the air all the while showing him different options of the game. I find a 38, I give chase, 38 runs for almost a sector. well lets go find some one else. flew to where there was a little larger dar theres a 51, I give chase almost 1/2 a sector (total flight time at this point 10 mins). so we loose him. he asks what do you do just chase planes around? I will not type my response but he never asked the name of the game. pretty sad.
My friend, what is sad is that you continued to chase them for more than 10 seconds. Turn around, let them attack, catch them on the reversal and make your friend think you are not only awesome at work but also awesome in battles to the death. He will find a whole new respect for you and when the girls on the reception desk find out about your deeds....oh man..
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yeah, gotta get them to attack you if you choose to fly the slowest planes in the game.
Taking a defense plane to a offense fight is gonna give you runners all day long.
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Many Many Blue Moons ago, I was flying a P-51D in AirWarrior (this was around '94/'95 in the Full Realism ETO arena)... I was flying CZ and Damned Chick had been flying CZ but switched to Az without me noticing....
Anyways, probably the most important thing to know about Chick just like most all of the old Damned members like NB, SB, GE, PT, SM, FOOL, add infinium...is that it was very important to help train/teach others and everything that players who needed, wanted to learn how to be better....with that said, it had nothing to do about being a score-w----- or ego boost... It was how to use BFM/ACM, Energy Management and SA as your "roots" ... Knowing one's own strengths and weaknesses including their plane's...
I thought I had shot the moon, when I got into this long drawn out knife-fight in a phonebooth with this Az Spitfire which was one of the first 10+ minutes palms sweating dogfights I had the joy of being in and after I finally found my way of using all the training that the Training Staff (which was basically of members from the Damned, The Musketeers and the 4th FG mostly with a few others) had drilled into my brain, I managed to get the upper hand/angles on this pesty Az Spitfire and shoot him down.... To my astonishing surprise and delight flooding thru me the screen text buffer popped up:
TC shot down Chick - A kill has been recorded!
At that point in time / moment, my view of the game would completely change and all I ever wanted to do was to learn everything I could and to pass it on to any and every player that played and would listen....
It is not about winning or being a chest thumper.... It's about all the players/squadmates/family/friends/community members that took the time out of their own "Fun Time" to help me out learning to be a more positive and capable player and in doing so led me to realize that the only proper thing to do was pass on that which was taught to me...
Damned if you do, No Fun if you don't!
When PT founded our squad "the Damned" over 30+ years ago (we turned 30 yrs old this past year), I wonder if he ever thought about if it would still be around for 30+ years....
The only thing that ever bothered me about Aces High which basically includes players from WarBirds, AirWarrior IL-2 and FighterAce with others from wwiionline, Jane's etc....
Is that we never brought over or continued to keep with the traditional way of Training that AW, WB, FA and 1 or 2 other WWII aircombat mmog's offered.... I tried to bring it here but for some reason something changed and it is easy to see when you play in the game these past few years/days....
HiTech wanted a Training Academy/Course way back in 2000, and it's a shame that we could never get others interested in the concept and how much it would have helped over all the way, these past 19+ years of Aces High
Thank you to everyone who helped me along the way and to all the volunteers that stepped up to make this game more than just a great game...
~S~ & Cheers
TC
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Game hasn’t ran its course, but there is some issues that have pushed players away... whether it’s the community or the game itself something needs to change.
/thread.
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once again, attendance is low and arena needs to be adjusted for that.
I logged in last night. 40 people online. Flew for 20 minutes, found one fight and not likely to find another. Logged.
We need maps that scale with the roster - cloud layers could be used for that. If attendance is low, map shouldn't be larger then 40 miles x 40 miles. As more people log - it should expand.
Challenge is how to include strats into that.
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Game hasn’t ran its course, but there is some issues that have pushed players away... whether it’s the community or the game itself something needs to change.
/thread.
Something has changed the developer/creator is switching to a game with a different business model. War Online: Pacific is where all of Hitech creations efforts are going from now on. Hitech is using subscriptions from AH3 to fund development of WOP.
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War Online: Pacific is where all of Hitech creations efforts are going from now on.
That is a silly statement. Other than some new front end menus and some billing server work, it is essentially a complete sub-set of AHIII. Now if he was doing a space fighter game you might have more reason to be concerned.
Hitech is using subscriptions from AH3 to fund development of WOP.
My guess is that it will end up being the other way around.
:salute,
CptTrips
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Many Many Blue Moons ago, I was flying a P-51D in AirWarrior (this was around '94/'95 in the Full Realism ETO arena)... I was flying CZ and Damned Chick had been flying CZ but switched to Az without me noticing....
Anyways, probably the most important thing to know about Chick just like most all of the old Damned members like NB, SB, GE, PT, SM, FOOL, add infinium...is that it was very important to help train/teach others and everything that players who needed, wanted to learn how to be better....with that said, it had nothing to do about being a score-w----- or ego boost... It was how to use BFM/ACM, Energy Management and SA as your "roots" ... Knowing one's own strengths and weaknesses including their plane's...
I thought I had shot the moon, when I got into this long drawn out knife-fight in a phonebooth with this Az Spitfire which was one of the first 10+ minutes palms sweating dogfights I had the joy of being in and after I finally found my way of using all the training that the Training Staff (which was basically of members from the Damned, The Musketeers and the 4th FG mostly with a few others) had drilled into my brain, I managed to get the upper hand/angles on this pesty Az Spitfire and shoot him down.... To my astonishing surprise and delight flooding thru me the screen text buffer popped up:
TC shot down Chick - A kill has been recorded!
At that point in time / moment, my view of the game would completely change and all I ever wanted to do was to learn everything I could and to pass it on to any and every player that played and would listen....
It is not about winning or being a chest thumper.... It's about all the players/squadmates/family/friends/community members that took the time out of their own "Fun Time" to help me out learning to be a more positive and capable player and in doing so led me to realize that the only proper thing to do was pass on that which was taught to me...
Damned if you do, No Fun if you don't!
When PT founded our squad "the Damned" over 30+ years ago (we turned 30 yrs old this past year), I wonder if he ever thought about if it would still be around for 30+ years....
The only thing that ever bothered me about Aces High which basically includes players from WarBirds, AirWarrior IL-2 and FighterAce with others from wwiionline, Jane's etc....
Is that we never brought over or continued to keep with the traditional way of Training that AW, WB, FA and 1 or 2 other WWII aircombat mmog's offered.... I tried to bring it here but for some reason something changed and it is easy to see when you play in the game these past few years/days....
HiTech wanted a Training Academy/Course way back in 2000, and it's a shame that we could never get others interested in the concept and how much it would have helped over all the way, these past 19+ years of Aces High
Thank you to everyone who helped me along the way and to all the volunteers that stepped up to make this game more than just a great game...
~S~ & Cheers
TC
that's a great story and all, but what does it have to do with a player showing a possible NEW player the game and all he can show him is 10 minutes of chasing runners?
The game has changed.
That is a silly statement. Other than some new front end menus and some billing server work, it is essentially a complete sub-set of AHIII. Now if he was doing a space fighter game you might have more reason to be concerned.
My guess is that it will end up being the other way around.
:salute,
CptTrips
I agree with Travler. HTC has a limited number of employees and right now the biggest thing they have going is launching the new game. My thoughts are they haven't figured out a way to bring in and retain new players in AH3 and so are launching the new game to keep their revenue flowing.
I hope the new game brings players to AH even tho Hitech said isn't the purpose of the new game. Time will tell.
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My thoughts are they haven't figured out a way to bring in and retain new players in AH3 and so are launching the new game to keep their revenue flowing.
What if it is the very basic, core nature of AHIII that is preventing gaining and retaining new customers? Should they fiddle with the core payment model and open sandbox model of AHIII to try it out?
What if the new generation of players reject the two-week trial then pay us a subscription or Flake-Off model? What if that revenue model went out with 3.5" floppies?
What if the completely open sand-box, you're on your own to figure out what to do, play model isn't what new player want? What if they prefer a more focused, time limited, curated (micro-scenario) experience?
What about players who still prefer the old AHIII model?
Maybe you create two games sharing the same core technology and assets, but each allowed to present a model that two different populations of players want, so you don'y have to force either model of the other? There may not be one single model everyone one wants.
Why not re-package the same technology in two ways to pull in the revenue from two different populations?
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See rule #4
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If you are spending 10 minutes chasing runners. It's no one's fault but your own. All the planes dont fly the same way. Take a Spit9 to a CV fight you are going to have a load of fun. Take a spit9 to a mid range high alt fight, you are going to have a hard time. The spit 9 is a very slow plane. What do you expect? Do you think people are going to 1v1 you in one of the best turning planes in the game?
Aces High isn't about being fair. It is about forcing the person to fight. It's about SA and avoiding the gangs. It's about patience to getting alt and getting the advantage over other fighters. AH is about patience and learning how to gain the Advantage. It's not about flying fair and expecting someone to 1v1 you in the MA while you have a spit9 and they have a P51. I just don't understand why people think fighters are going to play their way so that they can get an easy kill knowing full well their plane can outurn almost anything. You can either take time to learn real fighter combat or you can complain and leave. This ain't no War Thunder.
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Agreed. I thought the Pacific was an inspired choice. That makes an excellent differentiator.
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I think we should transition to the new "Title" if it embodies the essence of AH. Gamers are always looking for the "new thing" and may be turned off trying an "Old Game".
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If you are spending 10 minutes chasing runners. It's no one's fault but your own. All the planes dont fly the same way. Take a Spit9 to a CV fight you are going to have a load of fun. Take a spit9 to a mid range high alt fight, you are going to have a hard time. The spit 9 is a very slow plane. What do you expect? Do you think people are going to 1v1 you in one of the best turning planes in the game?
Aces High isn't about being fair. It is about forcing the person to fight. It's about SA and avoiding the gangs. It's about patience to getting alt and getting the advantage over other fighters. AH is about patience and learning how to gain the Advantage. It's not about flying fair and expecting someone to 1v1 you in the MA while you have a spit9 and they have a P51. I just don't understand why people think fighters are going to play their way so that they can get an easy kill knowing full well their plane can outurn almost anything. You can either take time to learn real fighter combat or you can complain and leave. This ain't no War Thunder.
Exxxxxxactly.
:aok
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about 2pm est time today I had a guy come in the office, he was very interested in the flight stick I had on my desk. we began discussing it and I explained I play this game. he told me that he did a little flying on line and he was very interested in the game as he had never heard of it. so I fired up the computer and launched a spit 9 in the ma, he wanted to fly a 51d but do to eny I explained we couldn't take that. so any ways I launch a spit 9 get in the air all the while showing him different options of the game. I find a 38, I give chase, 38 runs for almost a sector. well lets go find some one else. flew to where there was a little larger dar theres a 51, I give chase almost 1/2 a sector (total flight time at this point 10 mins). so we loose him. he asks what do you do just chase planes around? I will not type my response but he never asked the name of the game. pretty sad.
Next time let him fly offline and shoot down a drone. It's quick, predictable, and likely to be successful.
Then if he downloads Aces High fight him 1v1 until he gets comfortable. Then point him at FSO and scenarios so he sees player organized AH.
The MA can be fun for a newbie but it's a tough place to start.
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Next time let him fly offline and shoot down a drone. It's quick, predictable, and likely to be successful.
Then if he downloads Aces High fight him 1v1 until he gets comfortable. Then point him at FSO and scenarios so he sees player organized AH.
The MA can be fun for a newbie but it's a tough place to start.
I think the current MA is bad for new players. When I joined in 09 I strictly played in the DA, where there was 40 players at all times and instant dogfight action. Sadly it’s not like that anymore.
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What if it is the very basic, core nature of AHIII that is preventing gaining and retaining new customers? Should they fiddle with the core payment model and open sandbox model of AHIII to try it out?
What if the new generation of players reject the two-week trial then pay us a subscription or Flake-Off model? What if that revenue model went out with 3.5" floppies?
What if the completely open sand-box, you're on your own to figure out what to do, play model isn't what new player want? What if they prefer a more focused, time limited, curated (micro-scenario) experience?
What about players who still prefer the old AHIII model?
Maybe you create two games sharing the same core technology and assets, but each allowed to present a model that two different populations of players want, so you don'y have to force either model of the other? There may not be one single model everyone one wants.
Why not re-package the same technology in two ways to pull in the revenue from two different populations?
oh I understand "why" they are making another game and in the type they are. Heck I've been saying for years that HTC should change to a type of F2P style setup in AH for years. It is the type of game setup most gamers are now familiar with.
The point is AH is slowly losing more and more players. At this point creating a new game does nothing for the original. I hope it brings new players over from the new game that are looking for a more full experience.
At this point it just as t looks like HTC has given up on bring AH back to the popular/cash cow that it was before and are spending all there time launching the new game.
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oh I understand "why" they are making another game and in the type they are. Heck I've been saying for years that HTC should change to a type of F2P style setup in AH for years. It is the type of game setup most gamers are now familiar with.
The point is AH is slowly losing more and more players. At this point creating a new game does nothing for the original. I hope it brings new players over from the new game that are looking for a more full experience.
At this point it just as t looks like HTC has given up on bring AH back to the popular/cash cow that it was before and are spending all there time launching the new game.
It's possible that lessons learned could feed back to changes to the AHIII base, but they should be proven out first in WO:P. They shouldn't risk making changes to their core meal-ticket until they have proven results with real-world data and not just theory.
If that model doesn't pan out and is a total flop? They can drop it and haven't disturbed their main product.
Besides, they are essentially getting paid a second time for work they have mostly already done. You can't beat that from a business point of view. :lol
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you should have followed the bishops when they were hording bases in the morning. tell him that's what you do personally.
semp
I haven’t really been on much in a few weeks semp. But thanks for playing along.
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My friend, what is sad is that you continued to chase them for more than 10 seconds. Turn around, let them attack, catch them on the reversal and make your friend think you are not only awesome at work but also awesome in battles to the death. He will find a whole new respect for you and when the girls on the reception desk find out about your deeds....oh man..
They will not turn around. Tried it many times. Had there been more enemy’s in the area they may have but in CHASES HIGH there is no chance. It again your statement is as valid as some one telling me to fly a horrible early war plane if I want to get fights. Why not just fight in the video game?
I didn’t even want to go near the base with him watching as I knew there was a few wirbs there and that’s worse than chasing a running plane.
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They will not turn around. Tried it many times. Had there been more enemy’s in the area they may have but in CHASES HIGH there is no chance. It again your statement is as valid as some one telling me to fly a horrible early war plane if I want to get fights. Why not just fight in the video game?
I didn’t even want to go near the base with him watching as I knew there was a few wirbs there and that’s worse than chasing a running plane.
Again, you are missing the point. You took like the slowest plane in the game to an offensive fight. Why would someone in a BnZ plane 1v1 what he knows is a really great turn fighter only to die in the 1v1 fight in a turn fight?
If you are tired of runners. Get a temp, get some alt, and prey upon them. That's what I do. I still get like 25+ kills a night. So you should probably check your tactics rather than complain when you know you are in a slow great turning plane. The guys you are chasing don't know that a newb is behind the wheel.
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Again, you are missing the point. You took like the slowest plane in the game to an offensive fight. Why would someone in a BnZ plane 1v1 what he knows is a really great turn fighter only to die in the 1v1 fight in a turn fight?
If you are tired of runners. Get a temp, get some alt, and prey upon them. That's what I do. I still get like 25+ kills a night. So you should probably check your tactics rather than complain when you know you are in a slow great turning plane. The guys you are chasing don't know that a newb is behind the wheel.
Yeah. That’s all that’s in the arena these days. 190s 51s temps and Mary models. I can fly those but they are not a lot of fun to me. I would rather turn 200yds away in an intense spiral dual then fly two sectors to get the alt and still wind up chasing one to the deck anyways. Or sit on the edge of a fight and pick off players that get slow from fighting other guys.
I’ve only been on for a few years but I remember when a cv pulled up on a base it was a good twenty or thirty minute battle of all low slow turning planes. Now it’s rarely a flare up unless the cv group is able to take down the vh and all the hangers at a base.
I’m looking to see how the new game turns out. Hoping it would be more fighter based with no gv wirbs and town ack to run to.
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You can still try turning in a 51. Especially when you do catch the other 51, 109d or 47m you hate so much. Except those planes are much harder to fly in a turnfight compared to a spit 16. Or fly a k4. Decent turner and also as fast as any of the other planes.
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The p51 can dominate 1v1 fighting. People just don’t know how to do it. A 51 easily plays with a 109g14 and K4 maneuverability wise.
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Very few people can dominate in a 51 tho. Once slow it just cant accelerate like a k4 making it hard to survive in the MA.
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Very few people can dominate in a 51 tho. Once slow it just cant accelerate like a k4 making it hard to survive in the MA.
slowing the 51 to much is from the ‘users’ lack of knowledge of using the plane. Never should the 51 get below 180mph when fighting a k4 under 12k
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slowing the 51 to much is from the ‘users’ lack of knowledge of using the plane. Never should the 51 get below 180mph when fighting a k4 under 12k
You can take it slower than 180 but it needs to be a down hill fight so momentum can help with acceleration
P51 can merge with anyplane co alt and win the 1v1 enough that people should at least try....and the best part is if you are starting to lose it's ability to exit the fight and reset is better than almost every ride.
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Just learning the proper way of how to extend at the right moment to get enough separation to reset the fight/engagement is very important, no matter what aircraft one might be using
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The p51 can dominate 1v1 fighting. People just don’t know how to do it. A 51 easily plays with a 109g14 and K4 maneuverability wise.
Exactly, players like Rocky and the "Musketeers" only used it to pick and run. Players like FESS, MARK4 used it to fight and win. New players use it because its one of the few planes they recognize in the drop down list.
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Wouldn't a limited number of free to play planes get the numbers up?
I think even 1 fighter, one bomber, one tank etc would get more people playing and if they were able to build up perk points maybe that would lead them to subscribe later?
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Wouldn't a limited number of free to play planes get the numbers up?
I think even 1 fighter, one bomber, one tank etc would get more people playing and if they were able to build up perk points maybe that would lead them to subscribe later?
Pretty much all is available now.... for 2 weeks.
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Unfortunately, two weeks isn't close to the amount of time it takes the average player to learn how to get past his (or her) frustrations and enjoy the game. If a potential paying customer had access to a smaller plane set and stuck with it long enough to win a fight or two he (or she) might be more tempted to pay a monthly fee to experience the planes that offer more advantage (or merely appeal to their online persona).
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Just learning the proper way of how to extend at the right moment to get enough separation to reset the fight/engagement is very important, no matter what aircraft one might be using
When is the right time to extend in the P-40?
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When is the right time to extend in the P-40?
6 P.M. central U.S. time?
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When is the right time to extend in the P-40?
From what.... a C 47? :D
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From what.... a C 47? :D
Might be able to beat one if I had the alt. :)
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Might be able to beat one if I had the alt. :)
I have seen them extend to the accident site.
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When is the right time to extend in the P-40?
Before you lose the energy and position to do it.
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Unfortunately, two weeks isn't close to the amount of time it takes the average player to learn how to get past his (or her) frustrations and enjoy the game. If a potential paying customer had access to a smaller plane set and stuck with it long enough to win a fight or two he (or she) might be more tempted to pay a monthly fee to experience the planes that offer more advantage (or merely appeal to their online persona).
Steam release showed new players didn't even stay for a few hours. The two weeks limit obviously wasn't the problem.
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Steam release showed new players didn't even stay for a few hours. The two weeks limit obviously wasn't the problem.
Well, arcade gamers have the attention span and endurance of six month olds. AH will never be their cuppa. Can't change that. But I still say two weeks bait no longer captures the imagination and desire of the potential flight sim enthusiast that may flourish once they discover the AH community filled with history geeks and squadron fetishists (historical or otherwise). I'd love to see a marketing/advertisement method that could reach the particular type of customer that finds such more appealing than arcade play in just a few hours (the FTP game without restriction has spoiled most). Til then, I suspect making a sampling of the full plane/vehicle set FTP until full blown infection sets in.
I may be getting my new PC back from the PC doc this Wednesday. Here's hoping their assessment of the CPU having 'bent pins' was just confusion on the part of the person calling Kelly about the issue (since the processor had contacts instead of pins ... and the motherboard didn't have pins, either). I anticipate telling them they get no more business from me. --- But I digress.
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the problem has always been the lethality in air to air combat of AcesHigh. Warbirds used to have a far more generous dosage of lethality that allowed you to take several hits and not explode immediately or pop a wing off, or a tail as soon as you heard a ping. In Warbirds you had a chance to recover from a bad position, or a bad situation, and turn the table on an attacker. In AcesHigh if you lose the advantage in a fight then you are finished about 95% of the time. THIS is what drives people to enter the fight with a good advantage, and to FLEE the moment that advantage starts to slip. But hey, its so important to today's gamers to see instant death dosed out to the opponent.
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Arlo had bent pins in his PC :rofl
hello sailor :rofl
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Arlo had bent pins in his PC :rofl
hello sailor :rofl
The PC tech's name was Zack. Hmmmm.
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I don't understand the complaints about game play I guess. I enjoy running supplies for Christ sake. I have frustrated more enemy resupping a Town while they are trying to take it than I can count. When I am fighting I look for my regular group of people usually. When they are doing something I just enjoy whatever they are doing whether it is productive or not and I don't even think about what else is going on. I do understand the business problem that AH has and I hope they figure that out, but for me I just appreciate being able to furball when I want, take a tank into some strats, killing ordinance, or sitting in the tower watching others. As stated there are some people that if they are on I'm in with them regardless. This game has a lot to offer me.
To each his own I guess.
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I don't understand the complaints about game play I guess. I enjoy running supplies for Christ sake. I have frustrated more enemy resupping a Town while they are trying to take it than I can count. When I am fighting I look for my regular group of people usually. When they are doing something I just enjoy whatever they are doing whether it is productive or not and I don't even think about what else is going on. I do understand the business problem that AH has and I hope they figure that out, but for me I just appreciate being able to furball when I want, take a tank into some strats, killing ordinance, or sitting in the tower watching others. As stated there are some people that if they are on I'm in with them regardless. This game has a lot to offer me.
To each his own I guess.
This
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I don't understand the complaints about game play I guess. I enjoy running supplies for Christ sake. I have frustrated more enemy resupping a Town while they are trying to take it than I can count. When I am fighting I look for my regular group of people usually. When they are doing something I just enjoy whatever they are doing whether it is productive or not and I don't even think about what else is going on. I do understand the business problem that AH has and I hope they figure that out, but for me I just appreciate being able to furball when I want, take a tank into some strats, killing ordinance, or sitting in the tower watching others. As stated there are some people that if they are on I'm in with them regardless. This game has a lot to offer me.
To each his own I guess.
You should be ashamed at having so much fun. :D
Well done my friend... well done. :aok