Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: shurt on January 15, 2019, 06:31:33 PM
Title: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: shurt on January 15, 2019, 06:31:33 PM
I'm 55 yrs old and retired a few months ago. I got into remote control planes six months ago from 4' - 8' and it's a blast! I purchased RealFlight 8 simulator for my remote control airplane practice and ran across some information on Aces High. For the past few days I've been trying to learn about your club. I gotta say, it appears to be the most fun you can have with your clothes on! However, it also appears to be a pretty big learning curve?
As an RC'r its not possible to use my remote control transmitter? It is better to purchase a flight and throttle controller? Also peddles for the rudder are necessary? Can someone point me to the preferred equipment or does it matter? I kinda think it would be ok to buy used equipment from someone who's not flying anymore. Is there a list of readings or video's I should watch? Please point me in the right direction lol .
It is very intimidating getting into this but I think with some help it could be awesome. Any advice is appreciated.
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: FLS on January 15, 2019, 06:39:55 PM
You'll likely want a joystick, you can get a twisty stick for a rudder axis if you don't want to use pedals.
Post any questions or issues you come across. :aok
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: serun on January 15, 2019, 07:01:08 PM
Welcome aboard sir! Yes the learning curve is sometimes steep but worth the effort. Be warned this game can be very addicting once you kind of get the hang of it! :joystick:
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: 100Coogn on January 15, 2019, 07:03:02 PM
I would suggest not trying to learn everything at one time. Things can be a bit overwhelming at first. Try to get used to using the radio comms. Help is always available in the game via the help channel.
Good luck and welcome to AHIII. :salute
Coogan
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: Oldman731 on January 15, 2019, 07:43:32 PM
It is very intimidating getting into this but I think with some help it could be awesome. Any advice is appreciated.
It's awesome even without help, sonny. But there's a bunch of people here who are eager to help you. As someone said, learn how to communicate first (so you can ask for help), and then try the Training Arena.
- oldman
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: shurt on January 15, 2019, 07:57:39 PM
I plan to dedicate a computer tower and use a 55" tv .... good idea? Also, can someone tell me what kind of controller (make, model) is popular and better to use?
Thanks in advance
shurt
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: popeye on January 15, 2019, 09:27:39 PM
I like CH Products controllers: Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, and Pro Pedals. However, there are lots of other choices. Some players do really well using a mouse and keyboard.
I think some players do use TVs. You will need a good GPU to get decent frame rates. I'm using a GTX1060 and get good frame rates with most graphic features turned on.
There is a Hardware forum where you might get more expert opinions on controllers and video.
Welcome to the game!
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: fuzeman on January 15, 2019, 09:43:05 PM
Welcome to Aces High :salute
Controllers best, worst, good, bad, much depends on preference really but I do think you need them, all three, joystick of course, throttle of some type, and rudder again of some type, pedals or twisty. I've only had CH from my first Force Feedback to current Fighterstick Pro but I'm biased. It does have a lot to learn and I felt it was like a ladder, you go up a step at a time, maybe slip one too, but you get to know a step and it becomes natural and you don't ever fall back past that step. Pretty soon your near the top. How high a ladder you climb depends on how much time and effort you put into it and how good you want to get. What you want to get out also makes a difference. If it's score or just a good time, or not having the wife yell at you because you go out too much. It wont stop her yelling but it would change into get off that darn computer!!!
No question is stupid so fire away with any you have. We are a helpful bunch, generally speaking :D
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: The Fugitive on January 15, 2019, 09:59:04 PM
I'm 55 yrs old and retired a few months ago. I got into remote control planes six months ago from 4' - 8' and it's a blast! I purchased RealFlight 8 simulator for my remote control airplane practice and ran across some information on Aces High. For the past few days I've been trying to learn about your club. I gotta say, it appears to be the most fun you can have with your clothes on! However, it also appears to be a pretty big learning curve?
As an RC'r its not possible to use my remote control transmitter? It is better to purchase a flight and throttle controller? Also peddles for the rudder are necessary? Can someone point me to the preferred equipment or does it matter? I kinda think it would be ok to buy used equipment from someone who's not flying anymore. Is there a list of readings or video's I should watch? Please point me in the right direction lol .
It is very intimidating getting into this but I think with some help it could be awesome. Any advice is appreciated.
Welcome aboard!
Im 60 and have been playing this game for years. I would certainly recommend getting a stick at least. here are two options that work well.
This is a stand alone stick. It has a "twist" feature to use as rudder pedals. If you should latter get a set of rudder pedals it is easy to disable the "twist" action. It has a good number of buttons, but as you will find later, there are NEVER enough buttons :) And for $40 you really cant go wrong.
This is the same stick, but it adds a throttle controller as well. Throttle control will be important when flying fighters, plus it has MORE BUTTONS :) $130 isnt too big a jump for most.
After that, the sky is the limit. I use a "Warthog" stick which runs in the $250 area and an old set of CH throttles and pedals. There are some custom built units from over seas that can run higher than that.
First off get the stick above. If you like the game and wish to add on, no problem. If you decide the game is not for you your only out $40. When you get started ASK QUESTIONS! Here and IN the game most players will take the time to help out.
Once we get you hooked, we'll talk VR (virtual Reality) :devil
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: FLS on January 15, 2019, 11:46:28 PM
Fugi don't forget to complete the VR checklist.
Drive a jeep inside the large hanger.
Drive a PT boat around the Carrier.
Sit in the B-29 cockpit.
Loop a Dr1.
:aok
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: TWCAxew on January 16, 2019, 12:27:37 AM
Welcome to the game sir :salute
If your on the EU timezone I would be more than happy to fly with you and slay the evil flippz :devil
DutchVII
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: Bizman on January 16, 2019, 02:02:12 AM
Welcome!
The previous posters pretty much nailed the controllers starting from cost effective. The Thrustmaster T16000m really is an excellent low cost stick even for an experienced player and their throttle and pedals are good enough if you think you'd like to use all your limbs. If you end up favouring some plane type getting a matching controller set can be a nice addition to the addiction but for starters a neutral set can help you choose your plane better.
However, if you've got accustomed to the RC controllers, something similar for USB can be used. AH can take any controller Windows can recognize. And it can take LOTS of them! Someone used to have a dozen or so identical game pads attached to a board around his stick for the various functions of the game. Bear in mind, though, that RC planes are mostly flown from the outside and below whereas AH planes are mostly flown from the inside. Bombers can be flown from the outside but even then the default view is from the rear.
Using a TV as a monitor can be done. There's one thing to check, though: The input lag. Some TV's have more of it than others. What it means is that things in your PC and video card are those that determine what's happening in and around your virtual plane. Input lag is a delay between that and what you see on your monitor. It's often caused by various enhancing technologies used for the TV - there's no harm done if you see a TV show one second delayed! In real time games like AH you can be spotted and shot during that second so disabling any image enhancers is a must. At the easiest it can be done by choosing the PC output, at the worst the settings are hidden into the deepest subcategory. There's websites comparing the input lag for many TV's, hopefully you'll find yours being among the better ones. Google is your friend.
The learning curve is steep if you want to become a master. Sometimes it feels that there's people who take this as a prepping course for becoming a real propeller fighter pilot - there's tons of suggested reading and viewing about maneuvers and other tricks used in WW2. You can take that road as far as you like. Or, you can take it easy and learn just the basics. It's like throwing darts. You can be competitive and try to win everyone or you can pass some time over a pint of beer having fun with friends. Either way it's your choice, do what suits you best.
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: ccvi on January 16, 2019, 03:03:20 AM
As an RC'r its not possible to use my remote control transmitter?
It depends. For plane+remote bundles from China - probably not. If you are using real model builing/flying stuff, some transmitters come with connectors for teacher/student operation. There's devices that pick up that signal and provide it to the PC as standard USB human interface device. You can use that in AH.
You might be able to do magic things like mapping a bit of aileron to rudder, it the remote supports it and puts it on the output port.
Make sure to put in double-sided push-button switches to fill everything above 4 channels. That's where it'll need to differ from using it for planes where it usually needs normsl switches or more than 4 analog inputs.
(I haven't been following the developments of the model RC area, but 20 years ago this was technically possible, so it probably is today. Why would they upgrade technology to make teacher/student flying impossible, and devices to connect to the PC are probably more cheap today than they ever were before.)
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: shurt on January 16, 2019, 08:39:58 AM
Thanks so much for all the replies and useful information. I appreciate everyone who answered a question or questions I had. Giving me the model name and link was awesome! I'm a "all balls out" guy so I'm going to get the three controllers for $175.
I'm guessing now the 55" tv is not necessary? I can use my 26" or larger computer monitor? It was good to find out about the potential tv problems now than later. For the remote control simulator we use the biggest tv we can find. I thought the bigger field of view the better.
VR will have to wait. It's probably in my future but not right now. I have so much to learn and figure out that VR would just frustrate me. Several remote control pilots are using VR at our local club. There are also more and more things you can do with VR goggles like watch live pro hockey, pro and college basketball, pro soccer, or concerts from your living room so I'm sure to get some down the road.
Again .. thanks
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: TequilaChaser on January 16, 2019, 08:45:14 AM
Welcome to Aces High, shurt!
Don't be afraid to ask help regarding anything and I recommend spending time with one or more of the AH Training Corps Trainers!
They will get you set on the right path no matter what your game style of playing might be
~S~
TC
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: DubiousKB on January 16, 2019, 08:50:56 AM
Welcome to the sandbox; do you have your fist full of sand? Good, you're already on your way!
Lots of good advice here, just for reference I use a "cheap" Logitech 3D Extreme twisty joystick with throttle. It's not fancy, but it'll get you some rudeboi killz. :devil
Maybe even Shuffler killz in the AvA arena, just make sure they don't see you. Otherwise it's all over.
Good luck and be patient, it IS a steep learning curve.
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: Puma44 on January 16, 2019, 09:28:06 AM
Like these guys have said, the learning curve is near vertical at first and can be frustrating. Be patient and seek out trainers for the quickest domination of the learning curve.
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: popeye on January 16, 2019, 09:28:50 AM
Here is a site that compares AH fighters:
http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/
It hasn't been updated in quite a while so doesn't include the complete lineup, but is still useful.
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: Drano on January 16, 2019, 09:31:44 AM
Welcome Shurt! As somebody that's been doing this for quite a few years now I gotta tell you, yes - - the learning curve is quite steep! But, for me anyway, that is exactly what has kept me here this long. If it was easy I'd have lost interest long ago! Keep at it and don't be put off by getting killed - - repeatedly. It's just part of the learning process. Seriously.
Most important thing is to get a grasp of situational awareness. Being able to keep track of what's going on around you. What will help with that is to stick with one plane for a while and get the hang of that. I'll have to wash my mouth out after saying this but--the later spitfires are a good choice here. Once the actual flying has become more of a second nature thing, keeping track of the world going on outside your canopy will get a lot easier for you.
Best of luck and hope to see you up soon!
Sent from my Moto Z2 Force using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: Puma44 on January 16, 2019, 10:05:37 AM
And remember that the only stupid question is the one that isn’t asked. :D
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: TWCAxew on January 16, 2019, 10:11:26 AM
By the way! Make sure you don't miss out on the best part of AH!! Scenario's. We will have a 12 hour event the 26th and registration is still open for anyone. Even (I don't know why you wouldn't) if you don't make it the full 12 hours. You can also just register and show up for 1 flight. You are more than welkom to!
I'm guessing now the 55" tv is not necessary? I can use my 26" or larger computer monitor? --- I thought the bigger field of view the better.
Don't get me wrong. If you already have a 55" TV available, try it! Then again, 26" is plenty compared to a 15.6" laptop which is what some players use.
The field of view depends more on the resolution of the monitor than physical size. By default a 1080p looks the same both on a FullHD laptop and a 60" TV screen, the only difference being the size of individual pixels. Of course you can modify the FOV but if you go to extremities you'll end up having your wings looking like they'd be protruding forwards in a 45 deg angle.
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: FLS on January 16, 2019, 12:03:21 PM
For normal perspective FOV should match the view angle blocked by the monitor, given it's size and position. Since this limits what you can see in each view most people use a wider angle then normal view for situational awareness.
I used to set 112 -120 for FOV then zoom in for the normal perspective view.
The big TV can be fun but a monitor has better performance. Just sit closer to the monitor so it looks bigger. If you have both you can try both but I would start with the monitor. :aok
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: ccvi on January 17, 2019, 02:37:59 AM
Of course you can modify the FOV but if you go to extremities you'll end up having your wings looking like they'd be protruding forwards in a 45 deg angle.
Not if done correctly. If the fov is set to what it actually is, everything looks perfect even at extreme settings. For a wide screen, or multiple screens next to each other max fov can be correct if sitting close enough. The area far from center is looked at at an angle, and that fixes what looks funny looking at those areas from 90 degrees. Note that screens need to be flat, and mile screens lined up flat, i.e. the outer ones not tilted in like seen often. Also note that high fov settings cause a higher load on the system.
Unfortunately, AH can only paint to a flat surface. But that's basically true for all games for normal consumers. Some smulators use some driver in-between to map to whatever, but those need even more gpu power, and seem to be pretty pricey. There's one world simulation engine developed somewhere in eastern Europe for military purposes, also available for civilian use (I think), which has other output options on its feature list. I don't think it's used for any game at the moment. Can't remember it's name.
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: OldNitro on January 17, 2019, 06:40:24 AM
Be sure to check the 'Hardware and Software' section of the BB.. So you can get an idea of what hardware this game requires to run smoothly.. These guys are really helpful, they helped me select the build parts for a AH dedicated system.. It runs wide open, with all the goodies turned on, and didn't break the bank..
I use a Sanyo 55" 1080P 120hz TV, which self adjusts the screen to the resolution, so there is no stretching or distorting of the image to fit, SWEET! And to my eye, the view is about Life Sized, I love that.. 120hz I get no lag and no ghosting, and it was just under $400 on sale at Wallyworld..
Don't forget a head tracking system, like TrakIR5, I didn't see it mentioned.. So you don't have to use the hat switch to look around.. MAJOR improvement, and really adds to the natural feel, and the enjoyment.. And survival, :D
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: Bizman on January 17, 2019, 08:30:07 AM
ccvi, by extremities I meant pushing the FOV to max using a single standard screen. 10-15% up or down is what I'd call sensible for a natural view but I've read people use any setting up to 152. Our brain is a funny creature, it accommodates even to such anomalies! Ultra wide and multiple screens indeed are a different thing. Even then the automatic setting should work just fine for most people.
Good point about the increased load with a high FOV setting! :aok
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: TequilaChaser on January 17, 2019, 09:35:12 AM
If a person has played Aces High for a reasonable amount of time, let's go with 1 year+, and are use to a certain FOV setting...just increasing by 1 degree or lowering by 1 degree will throw your aim off (read "aim" as the mental sight/picture that over time your brain has trained itself to say "fire now")
The longer you have played the game with a certain FOV setting, the easier it is to pick up on this...
I've been using 110 degrees FOV, forever....
Hope this helps
TC
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: caldera on January 17, 2019, 10:45:56 AM
A few things I would say are important are setting up your joystick and views for every plane and learning what each plane is good at.
Set frequently used functions to your joystick, like vox, wep, flaps, view zoom and look up (which combined with the hat switch gets the up view of all the directional views) in the most easily reached places.
Adjusting views all around the plane to suit your FOV setting and get the most visibility possible. Lose sight, lose the fight. Use the keyboard arrows and pageup/pagedown to decrease blind spots. F10 saves the view. If you don't like what you saved, hit the home key to get default view and start over.
Learn the strengths and weaknesses of every plane. Knowing is half the battle. This isn't absolute, as you can fight outside of a plane's comfort zone but it will help you out. https://www.hitechcreations.com/21-flight-sim/world-war-two-planes/49-planes-of-aces-high
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: shurt on January 17, 2019, 01:49:59 PM
Once again, thanks for all the great information and support.
shurt
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: HomeBoy on January 17, 2019, 02:03:12 PM
Shurt, I am an RC pilot also. I once pulled the electronics out of an old joystick and installed it in a spare Hitech transmitter that I had. I played around with using it to play flight sims (MS FS if I recall) and it does work. What's great (the only great thing I think) is that you can stand up, walk around, sit, etc. while flying without affecting your ability. However, I believe there are more issues than make it worth the effort. The biggest issue is dealing with views. TrackIR would help that (didn't exist back when I tried it) but you really need hats and other buttons and with your thumbs on the sticks, it's hard to manage all that. A good joystick or even better, HOTAS (stick, throttle, and rudder pedals) is the only way to go (IMHO).
BTW, welcome to our world. This is a great game and an equally great community!
:salute -hb
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: ccvi on January 17, 2019, 05:36:03 PM
ccvi, by extremities I meant pushing the FOV to max using a single standard screen.
Just depends on how close to the screen the eye is. The original post was asking about a big TV, and when moving real close to that one a high fov makes sense. Not when viewing it from a typical TV watching distance of course. But when putting it on a desk like a computer scteen...
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: ccvi on January 17, 2019, 05:40:08 PM
If a person has played Aces High for a reasonable amount of time, let's go with 1 year+, and are use to a certain FOV setting...just increasing by 1 degree or lowering by 1 degree will throw your aim off (read "aim" as the mental sight/picture that over time your brain has trained itself to say "fire now")
What's even worse than changes in fov is the tilted down default view, that moves the gunsite away from the center of the projection.
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: shurt on January 17, 2019, 07:00:24 PM
This is going to be a blast. I have a feeling this is going to be like going to prison: a little excited and scared all at the same time! lol
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: fuzeman on January 17, 2019, 07:42:36 PM
Well saddle up partner, you're burning daylight :)
What's even worse than changes in fov is the tilted down default view, that moves the gunsite away from the center of the projection.
The default tilted down view lets you see the instruments without using a wide FOV. The default forward view (KP8) looks over the nose. Both are easy to reset to your preference.
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: Bizman on January 18, 2019, 01:33:56 AM
Just depends on how close to the screen the eye is. The original post was asking about a big TV, and when moving real close to that one a high fov makes sense. Not when viewing it from a typical TV watching distance of course. But when putting it on a desk like a computer scteen...
Umm... Alright, that makes sense. In an ancient post HiTech said that the correct FOV is like looking out through a window and obviously the view shouldn't bend at the frames. Step closer, see wider. He also presented a formula for calculating the ideal FOV, it all is somewhere in the forums. Anyhow, I suppose we both agree that the right FOV is what looks natural from the point where the eyes of the player are.
With all that said my previous comment about the FOV being more a question of resolution seems misleading. However, since the Video Settings don't ask about the size of the screen I suppose resolution is being used for calculating the default FOV with the assumption that the size of a single pixel is roughly the same independently of the screen diagonal. That works to some extent with desktop monitors designed to be viewed from the arm's length (70 cm/2ft 4"). High resolution laptops and standard resolution TV's don't fit that formula so some adjustment has to be made.
Title: Re: Whoa .... a lot to learn
Post by: FLS on January 18, 2019, 06:31:44 AM
For a FOV that gives natural perspective you simply use the FOV blocked by your monitor's physical size and distance from the player. So if the monitor blocks 60 degrees of your visual field you would use a FOV of 60 for normal perspective. Sitting closer with the same monitor normal perspective might be a 90 degree FOV, sitting further away it might be 45. Because monitors are generally smaller than cockpits, normal perspective tends to be a narrow view.