General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Lusche on January 20, 2019, 06:57:38 PM
Title: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: Lusche on January 20, 2019, 06:57:38 PM
Seriously, how do you do it? How did I do it 14 years ago? :headscratch:
Even after two weeks of practicing I can not figure it out any more. First I thought "I'm just rusty, give it time", but it seems as if 15k hours using TrackIr has destroyed any ability to think differently anymore. I don't make any progress. Even when attacking non maneuvering bombers I can hardly keeping track of our relative positions, my old frontal quarter overhead attacks are right off the table - I have to resort to high 6 attacks if I actually want to land any hits. And my first Komet sortie resulted in an instant collision :ahand
Was using a TrackIr really such an advantage (took me onlöy a few days to move from hat views to TIR back in the day), or is it just my age that prevents me rewiring? :uhoh
/rant
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2019, 07:01:42 PM
Seriously, how do you do it? How did I do it 14 years ago? :headscratch:
Even after two weeks of practicing I can not figure it out any more. First I thought "I'm just rusty, give it time", but it seems as if 15k hours using TrackIr has destroyed any ability to think differently anymore. I don't make any progress. Even when attacking non maneuvering bombers I can hardly keeping track of our relative positions, my old frontal quarter overhead attacks are right off the table - I have to resort to high 6 attacks if I actually want to land any hits. And my first Komet sortie resulted in an instant collision :ahand
Was using a TrackIr really such an advantage (took me onlöy a few days to move from hat views to TIR back in the day), or is it just my age that prevents me rewiring? :uhoh
/rant
Wait until you try VR.
It will make IR feel as clumsy and awkward as a hat-switch.
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: Vulcan on January 20, 2019, 07:31:16 PM
The worst thing is trying to play non-VR after using VR for a year or more.
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: perdue3 on January 20, 2019, 07:44:19 PM
The worst thing is trying to play non-VR after using VR for a year or more.
Been playing non vr for a few weeks while I get my headset back. I do so much better without it lol
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: popeye on January 20, 2019, 09:14:14 PM
Tried TrackIR and gave up. The cap made my scalp itch. :headscratch:
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: The Fugitive on January 20, 2019, 09:23:14 PM
Im still faster with my thumb on a hat switch. While VR seems to afford better tracking.... like it much better than TrackIR.... I still have my thumb twitching over the hat switch..... which screws me up these days. :)
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2019, 09:34:24 PM
Im still faster with my thumb on a hat switch. While VR seems to afford better tracking.... like it much better than TrackIR.... I still have my thumb twitching over the hat switch..... which screws me up these days. :)
Don't you use both? Like look back with the hat switch and lean left and right around the head rest. Don't have to twist your necks around.
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: DaddyAce on January 20, 2019, 10:23:03 PM
I use my hat switch with VR; my old neck is not so turny anymore. :old:
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: 1stpar3 on January 20, 2019, 11:33:44 PM
Tried TrackIR and gave up. The cap made my scalp itch. :headscratch:
Check out NaturalPoint's "Trac clip pro", it mounts to your headset and gives better tracking. Its only around 15bucks, but well worth it. I hated the Hat clip also :aok
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: 8thJinx on January 21, 2019, 12:32:21 AM
If I ever got VR, my wife would throw all my crap out onto the lawn and make me sleep outside.
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: fd ski on January 21, 2019, 12:48:13 AM
if you had no choice you'd be back to proficiency with hatswitch in couple of days :)
VR is sure where it's at...
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: Shuffler on January 21, 2019, 01:12:27 AM
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: bozon on January 21, 2019, 03:08:19 AM
Keypad views are the only way to go. :old:
I mean, that and dial phones.
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: ccvi on January 21, 2019, 03:20:47 AM
Perspective error. If distance between eyes, screen width, and fov don't fit, there's an increasing perspective error with increasing distance from the center. With TrackIR you're keeping what you want to see in the center, free of errors.
Get closer to the screen. Get reading glasses to avoid calibrating eyes for nearsightedness.
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: Greebo on January 21, 2019, 03:39:05 AM
I suffer really badly from motion sickness and snap views are the only way I can play a game like this. Besides I never had any trouble tracking someone using an eight way hat with up and down view modifier buttons.
Any game which uses smooth scrolling views or a padlock view, or any sort of FPS or driving game just makes me nauseous in a few minutes. Even driving GVs in AH is something I can't do for more than 15 minutes or so. I've never tried VR but I am sure that would be even worse. I think using snap views prevents my brain from assuming what it sees on the screen is reality and then me getting that conflict between what my eyes and what my inner ear are experiencing.
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: Copprhed on January 21, 2019, 05:30:51 AM
The worst thing is trying to play non-VR after using VR for a year or more.
This is why I'm not playing any more. I have a cataract that has obscured my vision in my left eye, and another in the right that appears to be growing rather quickly; I see stars around lights now, with the right eye. I have tried flying on screen, and it's just a miserable experience after playing for so long with Oculus Rift. HiTech really outdid himself with the VR. One day I may return, but in the meantime, I'm learning to play my 2010 American Strat, while waiting on my 120TH Anniversary Gibson GS.
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: The Fugitive on January 21, 2019, 07:20:39 AM
Ya thats what I thought too, until I tried it. Now it just amazes me every time I put it on. You dont notice the lower resolution because your so entranced with how everything looks/works. You just want to reach out and touch things its so real looking. A bit to get use to but so far, I giggle every time I start messing around with VR!
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: OldNitro on January 21, 2019, 07:40:02 AM
I use both.. The hat is set up as normal, works like a manual override.. But if I had to play without TIR5, I probably wouldn't at all..
For me, it has become a necessary integral part of the game.. As necessary as a basic Stick, not really worthwhile without it..
Spoiled I guess!
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: fd ski on January 21, 2019, 07:44:42 AM
you registered here in 2002, well before HD, 4K and trackir. Heck, if you date back to AW and WB in your flight sim addiction, i'm sure you quite accept low quality visuals. Suspension of disbelief ;)
Yes, graphics are somewhat poorer in VR, but twisting your head around as you get that con to overshoot, there ain't nothing like it. This is coming from a guy who couldn't get used to TrackIR and played using hatswitch up till 2016.
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: Shuffler on January 21, 2019, 09:02:49 AM
Ya thats what I thought too, until I tried it. Now it just amazes me every time I put it on. You dont notice the lower resolution because your so entranced with how everything looks/works. You just want to reach out and touch things its so real looking. A bit to get use to but so far, I giggle every time I start messing around with VR!
I honestly have not tried it because of the reviews about quality.
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: Traveler on January 21, 2019, 09:29:31 AM
Seriously, how do you do it? How did I do it 14 years ago? :headscratch:
Even after two weeks of practicing I can not figure it out any more. First I thought "I'm just rusty, give it time", but it seems as if 15k hours using TrackIr has destroyed any ability to think differently anymore. I don't make any progress. Even when attacking non maneuvering bombers I can hardly keeping track of our relative positions, my old frontal quarter overhead attacks are right off the table - I have to resort to high 6 attacks if I actually want to land any hits. And my first Komet sortie resulted in an instant collision :ahand
Was using a TrackIr really such an advantage (took me onlöy a few days to move from hat views to TIR back in the day), or is it just my age that prevents me rewiring? :uhoh
/rant
If you have trackIR, why would you not use it? TrackIR works exceptionally well in AH even better in DCS World.
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: Traveler on January 21, 2019, 09:30:24 AM
Seriously, how do you do it? How did I do it 14 years ago? :headscratch:
Even after two weeks of practicing I can not figure it out any more. First I thought "I'm just rusty, give it time", but it seems as if 15k hours using TrackIr has destroyed any ability to think differently anymore. I don't make any progress. Even when attacking non maneuvering bombers I can hardly keeping track of our relative positions, my old frontal quarter overhead attacks are right off the table - I have to resort to high 6 attacks if I actually want to land any hits. And my first Komet sortie resulted in an instant collision :ahand
Was using a TrackIr really such an advantage (took me onlöy a few days to move from hat views to TIR back in the day), or is it just my age that prevents me rewiring? :uhoh
/rant
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: JOACH1M on January 21, 2019, 10:49:19 AM
Seriously, how do you do it? How did I do it 14 years ago? :headscratch:
Even after two weeks of practicing I can not figure it out any more. First I thought "I'm just rusty, give it time", but it seems as if 15k hours using TrackIr has destroyed any ability to think differently anymore. I don't make any progress. Even when attacking non maneuvering bombers I can hardly keeping track of our relative positions, my old frontal quarter overhead attacks are right off the table - I have to resort to high 6 attacks if I actually want to land any hits. And my first Komet sortie resulted in an instant collision :ahand
Was using a TrackIr really such an advantage (took me onlöy a few days to move from hat views to TIR back in the day), or is it just my age that prevents me rewiring? :uhoh
/rant
Idk first thing I ever used was a joystick with hat control. I never lose sight of a plane really. Just used to it I reckon. I hate the thought of Track IR
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: fd ski on January 21, 2019, 04:43:58 PM
I honestly have not tried it because of the reviews about quality.
try it, you might find a whole different game. I went from flying once a month or two, to everyday :) Rent it for a week or two and see how it pans out.
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: DaddyAce on January 21, 2019, 05:08:32 PM
Ya thats what I thought too, until I tried it. Now it just amazes me every time I put it on. You dont notice the lower resolution because your so entranced with how everything looks/works. You just want to reach out and touch things its so real looking. A bit to get use to but so far, I giggle every time I start messing around with VR!
Pretty much my experience too; found my self feeling like I was leaning up against the inside of the canopy trying to get a better view at times.....t'would be hard to go back to flying without it now.....
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: caldera on January 21, 2019, 05:38:32 PM
Never had a problem with using a hat switch, except when it gets worn out and twitches like Max Headroom.
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: BBQsam on January 21, 2019, 05:45:04 PM
try it, you might find a whole different game. I went from flying once a month or two, to everyday :) Rent it for a week or two and see how it pans out.
Where can you rent VR googles?
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: CptTrips on January 21, 2019, 06:07:34 PM
Pretty much my experience too; found my self feeling like I was leaning up against the inside of the canopy trying to get a better view at times.....t'would be hard to go back to flying without it now.....
Get into some intense WWI fights with it. The planes are much closer with slower closure rates. You really have time to appreciate the beauty of 3d experience when you are saddled up 30 yards behind a twisting turning Fokker at 200ft above the trees and farm houses.
The 3D'ness of it is worth 3x the pixel resolution, IMHO.
:salute, CptTrips
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: Vulcan on January 21, 2019, 11:18:18 PM
Been playing non vr for a few weeks while I get my headset back. I do so much better without it lol
If my headset is non-functioning I just cannot play.
Mind you... I have been using VR with AH for just over NINE YEARS now :rock
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: HAMMERR on January 22, 2019, 12:03:26 AM
I love my track IR, but the rear views out of my favorite planes are terrible (F4U & F6F). So I still have a hatview for looking back, up and forward.
Also.. the implementation of TIR in this game is really weird as well, since when i'm using only the track IR and i look backwards... say back and left, looking over my left shoulder.. If I move my head right to see around the seat, the game view moves LEFT as if the game is thinking my character head is still looking forwards. Which is opposite of what it should do.
I know this isnt my TIR setup, since it works as intended in DCS, BMS, war thunder and my racing games. AH3 just seems to interpret left and right X axis movement while your head is turned backwards without considering that twist. Same if you look pure left, the X axis movement is interpreted into forward and back now (since you're facing 9-oclock). without taking twist into play.
Title: Re: How do you dogfight with hatview?
Post by: save on January 22, 2019, 12:58:06 AM
Bozon promised me, when I come and visit him, he will pick me up in his mint condition T-ford :D
I love my track IR, but the rear views out of my favorite planes are terrible (F4U & F6F). So I still have a hatview for looking back, up and forward.
Also.. the implementation of TIR in this game is really weird as well, since when i'm using only the track IR and i look backwards... say back and left, looking over my left shoulder.. If I move my head right to see around the seat, the game view moves LEFT as if the game is thinking my character head is still looking forwards. Which is opposite of what it should do.
I know this isnt my TIR setup, since it works as intended in DCS, BMS, war thunder and my racing games. AH3 just seems to interpret left and right X axis movement while your head is turned backwards without considering that twist. Same if you look pure left, the X axis movement is interpreted into forward and back now (since you're facing 9-oclock). without taking twist into play.
Yes, DCS deals with this a lot different! Wish they would do what HT has done with VR...enable hat views like we have here.This may be due to the "Object Relative View(in AH) and "True View(in TIR)". I am strictly VR now, but one of these gives you that result. :uhoh Try checking and unchecking of these...I found that if I let TIR flow with my movement I.E. sort of lean forward (knowing seat would block my view) and leaning towards bad guy(before merge) helped to reduce the impression you are off kilter.Meaning that I lean to where he is and turning head to where he will be after merge/gonna show up behind me. Forward and then lean to side he is on(when set correct, True view realative view(done first(lean) it seems better as any twist of head direction gives same view..where he gonna be. Ok, you are familiar with TIR obviously...but tweaking curves helps as well. I didnt like the faster head movement with TIR so I scaled pretty aggressively only at the MUST DO point. Seems it made it feel a bit more natural and stopped that odd view problem.