Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DaveBB on March 21, 2019, 03:54:04 PM

Title: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: DaveBB on March 21, 2019, 03:54:04 PM
I've been watching a lot of videos about bush aircraft and stol aircraft.  The new ones are actually very impressive.  But all the aircraft (with a few exceptions) are tailwheel configuration, even the new builds.  Wouldn't a big nose wheel help prevent a prop strike on a rocky Alaskan river bank?

(https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/image2-760x380.jpeg)
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: Vraciu on March 21, 2019, 04:09:51 PM
Weight.  Handling.   You can jam up a nose wheel on unimproved surfaces a lot easier than the wheels on a taildragger.

Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: Shuffler on March 21, 2019, 05:21:21 PM
I imagine weight. Also with a much lighter plane you can touch it down on a slice of bread.
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: Puma44 on March 21, 2019, 06:20:26 PM
I imagine weight. Also with a much lighter plane you can touch it down on a slice of bread.

Not to mention the drag of that training wheel hanging from the nose.
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: Busher on March 21, 2019, 08:15:19 PM
You can blow the tail of a taildragger down through the use of elevator and power. The C of G of a taildragger is aft of the main gear.
In a tricycle gear airplane, the C of G is well forward of the main gear so eventually the nosewheel has to support its weight - never a good thing on unimproved surfaces.
I learned to fly on tailgraggers so I have always been biased to prefer them to trikes in light aircraft.
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: Arlo on March 21, 2019, 09:10:24 PM
Colmbo woulds had some good info on this.  :cry
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: Bizman on March 22, 2019, 02:41:22 AM
Would that serve a similar purpose to the tail in a kite?
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: Shuffler on March 22, 2019, 11:08:10 AM
Not to mention the drag of that training wheel hanging from the nose.

 :rofl
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: BSB on March 22, 2019, 01:01:42 PM
I believe one of the main reasons for tail draggers as bush aircraft is prop clearance.  When sitting on its tail the prop can be 2 ft or slightly more off the ground.  A tricycle aircraft the prop is only inches off the ground.  Ok at a paved airport but out in primitive conditions just taxi ing could lead to a prop strike.  Which would cause engine damage.  Every airport makes sure the runway is clear of obstacles.  But in the boonies only the runway is kept clear.  Taxiways and the flight line are take it as you get it.
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: save on March 23, 2019, 09:28:52 AM
What Vraciu said.

I have only flown tail draggers myself (except trikes), you can land in places few nose wheeler can.
There exceptions though, I flew with a friend in a CH701, it could pretty much land everywhere I could.
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: save on March 23, 2019, 09:33:33 AM
What Vraciu said.

I have only flown tail draggers myself (except weightshift trikes), you can land in places few nose wheeler can.
There exceptions though, I flew with a friend in a CH701, it could pretty much land everywhere I could.
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: DaveBB on March 23, 2019, 12:40:54 PM
Just thinking about it mathematically, if you hit a big enough rock with any wheel, it will probably nose you over.  Having three wheels instead of two lowers your chance of a prop strike by 33%.  Then again there is the weight issue.  A big heavy strut with a big heavy tire forward of the CoG, especially when most bush planes are light to begin with, isn't ideal.

The only common light bush plane I found with trike gear was the 801.  A few had big balloon tires all around.
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: asterix on March 23, 2019, 02:55:45 PM
in addition I think on a taildragger the wing sits on a greater angle of attack in relation to ground and all you need is little wind and you are off. On a plane with nosewheel the wheel wants to pull the nose down on rough surface or tall grass so you need bigger force on tailplane to rotate the nose up. Also taildragger uses tail to lift the tail instead of pushing it down to rotate.
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: Vraciu on March 23, 2019, 03:32:49 PM
Just thinking about it mathematically, if you hit a big enough rock with any wheel, it will probably nose you over.  Having three wheels instead of two lowers your chance of a prop strike by 33%.  Then again there is the weight issue.  A big heavy strut with a big heavy tire forward of the CoG, especially when most bush planes are light to begin with, isn't ideal.

The only common light bush plane I found with trike gear was the 801.  A few had big balloon tires all around.

No, I don’t see it flipping the airplane over but it might ground loop it.   That’s why oversized tires are popular.   They can run over stuff and keep going.


A nose gear could collapse. It’s no panacea.

The biggest threat to a noseover in a taildragger is a brake malfunction. IMO.   A guy I knew broke his neck and died in a Sea Fury that way.   
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: saggs on March 23, 2019, 08:46:49 PM
  Having three wheels instead of two lowers your chance of a prop strike by 33%. 

Umm... No. That's not how it works.


As to the original question.

Besides what others have mentioned, (prop clearance, landing attitude, weight, drag, etc) think about pushing a loaded wheelbarrow through a field of football sized rocks, versus pulling an empty wheelbarrow behind you.

Really the only advantage to tricycle gear aircraft is easier ground handling and visibility.
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: Chalenge on March 23, 2019, 09:00:03 PM
in addition I think on a taildragger the wing sits on a greater angle of attack in relation to ground and all you need is little wind and you are off. On a plane with nosewheel the wheel wants to pull the nose down on rough surface or tall grass so you need bigger force on tailplane to rotate the nose up. Also taildragger uses tail to lift the tail instead of pushing it down to rotate.

Less overall weight without the nose wheel, too. That can lead to such things as shorter takeoff rolls and shorter landing distances.

Those big tires are not cheap. I think I saw Trent complaining about $2600 while the originals were just under $300. Worth every penny.
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: DaveBB on March 24, 2019, 07:00:24 AM
Umm... No. That's not how it works.



It does if there is a big rock in your way LOL.
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: Vraciu on March 24, 2019, 09:57:18 AM
It does if there is a big rock in your way LOL.

No, it just increases your chances of hitting one. 
Title: Re: Why do most bush planes have tailwheel configurations?
Post by: SPKmes on March 24, 2019, 01:34:19 PM
from someone who knows jack about it... to me one reason would be because you can spin those around in a tight spot easier.... looking at some of the places they don't much room to maneuver ...

no other reason than that... hahahaha