General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: John Galt on March 22, 2019, 03:55:57 PM
Title: Invisible Poverty
Post by: John Galt on March 22, 2019, 03:55:57 PM
My wife, family , and friends of mine own several properties together. We try to make all units affordable and upkept. So on an inspection this morning , prompted by a utility provider that they cut off service to one of my u its. Heading the law I immediately went there to see what the issue was. I find after doing an inspection a level of poverty that is unacceptable in this country. Several basic needs in my unit, I will say it was my unit that was in bad shape. This family has been behind since movibg in. They have never paid on time, but made honest attempts to pay, they never called for repairs out of fear for me hitting them up for rent. Just remember all poverty is not seen. As a man with children I had tears over this, and will say I am guilty of not seeing the poverty that was in front of my eyes.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: Shuffler on March 22, 2019, 04:09:39 PM
My wife, family , and friends of mine own several properties together. We try to make all units affordable and upkept. So on an inspection this morning , prompted by a utility provider that they cut off service to one of my u its. Heading the law I immediately went there to see what the issue was. I find after doing an inspection a level of poverty that is unacceptable in this country. Several basic needs in my unit, I will say it was my unit that was in bad shape. This family has been behind since movibg in. They have never paid on time, but made honest attempts to pay, they never called for repairs out of fear for me hitting them up for rent. Just remember all poverty is not seen. As a man with children I had tears over this, and will say I am guilty of not seeing the poverty that was in front of my eyes.
There are a few who are really just down on their luck. All they need is a little help and they will get back on their feet soon enough.
It is amazing how many just fail to plan. Either that or they play around till the folks who have supported them are gone and then have no one to care for them anymore.
The saddest I have seen is when a couple in need keep having children they surely cannot support.
It is hard to see those things but many times, if you know the whole story, it is easy to see why many folks are in that situation. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: zack1234 on March 22, 2019, 05:36:54 PM
I dont give a damn about anyone but my family and people i know :old:
Stick this collective guilt, i never made anyone poor :old
Let Bono and Maddona do their help the polar bear crap.
UBS Warburg dont give a rats arse so why should i!
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: John Galt on March 22, 2019, 06:00:31 PM
You guys are turning something political that doesn't need to be. Poverty is a problem in the first world and a growing one at that. And to blame poverty on those who are in it is a lame duck scapegoat. Have you looked at tuition and living cost. A child born into poverty has to work considerlu harder to get an education they can't afford , and if they can't afford even the smallest of fees. They are stuck in poverty. While kids with privelaged families , as we have see can blatantly buy their under achieving students into the best programs. V
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: John Galt on March 22, 2019, 06:03:38 PM
I dont give a damn about anyone but my family and people i know :old:
Stick this collective guilt, i never made anyone poor :old
Let Bono and Maddona do their help the polar bear crap.
UBS Warburg dont give a rats arse so why should i!
You may not of done it personally but you have let it go on. Poverty is not somethig a kid born into it can say " I am going to college and getting a degree so I won't be poor tomorrow. "
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: John Galt on March 22, 2019, 06:04:36 PM
Zach1234 not to mention you are a perpetually offensive person and that is what you live on. All of us know that.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: John Galt on March 22, 2019, 06:29:31 PM
I am just sick you guys think you know what is going on. While you hide poverty. Poverty is a problem and going unchecked will hurt everyone. If you guys are so sure it is a savings problem. I Wil hire yout at min wage for 40 plus hours a week. Then in the end let me know how much you have to save. That is a real garuntee. I will pay you min wage for 6 months. And you save. I will even give you 3500 savings to start.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: zack1234 on March 22, 2019, 06:30:16 PM
How dare you!
Your the slum landlord with your property investment portfolio.
You damn hippocrite!
Your property is not fit to live in and you call me out!
You should hang your head in shame admitting you rent out slums to poor people
Dont link me to your greed
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: Oldman731 on March 22, 2019, 06:44:50 PM
So before this gets out of hand:
It's a wise saying about never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes (or 1.609344 kilometers, for Euro types). Being there, and seeing it, can be an eye-opener. There's no need to make a political argument out of a grim observation.
- oldman
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: Shuffler on March 22, 2019, 06:45:21 PM
You guys are turning something political that doesn't need to be. Poverty is a problem in the first world and a growing one at that. And to blame poverty on those who are in it is a lame duck scapegoat. Have you looked at tuition and living cost. A child born into poverty has to work considerlu harder to get an education they can't afford , and if they can't afford even the smallest of fees. They are stuck in poverty. While kids with privelaged families , as we have see can blatantly buy their under achieving students into the best programs. V
Nothing political in what I said.
Public schools are free. Many folks born in poverty make it out. You just will not do it laying on the couch watching TV. As for college.... you do not need college to be successful.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: Ciaphas on March 22, 2019, 06:46:08 PM
I am just sick you guys think you know what is going on. While you hide poverty. Poverty is a problem and going unchecked will hurt everyone. If you guys are so sure it is a savings problem. I Wil hire yout at min wage for 40 plus hours a week. Then in the end let me know how much you have to save. That is a real garuntee. I will pay you min wage for 6 months. And you save. I will even give you 3500 savings to start.
But living with in the bounds of a paycheck is the key to not being in the house. As a landlord, as I have been, if a tenant can't afford the property, you don't rent to them. If they start missing rent payments, you need to find out why and if need be recommend a mutual break in contract and assist them with finding cheaper accommodations.
One main factor to the "downward spiraling" poverty is the irresponsible selling and/or renting of goods to people that they know can't afford it and when the individual defaults the seller crushes the consumer.
wants are wants and needs are needs.
Needs: shelter, food and water
everything else is a want and cam be worked around.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: John Galt on March 22, 2019, 06:48:06 PM
It's a wise saying about never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes (or 1.609344 kilometers, for Euro types). Being there, and seeing it, can be an eye-opener. There's no need to make a political argument out of a grim observation.
- oldman
My only repsonse is exactly.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: John Galt on March 22, 2019, 06:50:46 PM
Public schools are free. Many folks born in poverty make it out. You just will not do it laying on the couch watching TV. As for college.... you do not need college to be successful.
.when was the last time you went for a lucractive job?
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: guncrasher on March 22, 2019, 08:56:56 PM
Theirs not to make reply,. Theirs not to reason why,. Theirs but to do and die.
I have always been lucky to have a good job. at age 20 i was supporting my mother and 4 brothers and sisters. this with a highschool education. you can say i was lucky. I somehow manged to provide for 3 kids and my wife, buy a house, my youngest one was 5 years old the first time he drank water, before it was milk or juice, to this day he wont drink water alone. i was making a good living then i got hurt about a year ago. now I am out of a job, getting worker's comp, waiting to get a surgery i need to get back to work. not even gonna get into my wife's illness. I am lucky i managed to put money into 401k's and pensions in two different companies. that's what I am living on. worker's comp dont pay crap, i make in 1 week what i used to make in 10 hours of work. when savings runs out, if i dont have that surgery, I am out on the streets.
I am caught in the middle ground between not being in poverty yet and having enough money for now to pay for my bills and yet with no insurance and with my wife's illness it wont be long. I am not the only one. I know lots of people who got caught in the same situation as me. not that we are lazy, we just get caught in situations.
it is what it is. I volunteer at a soup kitchen near where i live. I see able bodies, willing to work but because they are on the streets, it's harder to turn your life around. that's a cold fact. very few will risk giving you a job because they think you wont show up because you dont have a permanent address.
I live in a working class apartment, clean, no drugs, no gangs, no break ins, it's safe. two families where 1 husband and on the other the wife lost their jobs moved in together. the manager just turned a blind eye to it. 10 people living in a 2 bedroom apartment. when i read that the unemployment rate is only 2% or whatever it is now, it's a lie. they dont count those who cant find a job and arent on unemployment or cant get welfare. most are people that want to work but cant find a job because even minimum wage jobs have 10 or 15 people show up for 1 position. that's a fact.
invisible poverty is a reality. most people dont want handouts, they want to work. we arent living in a world of al bundy anymore where a lowly paid shoe salesman can afford to pay a mortgage and have a crappy old dodge in the garage. those times are long gone.
semp
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: The Fugitive on March 22, 2019, 09:25:53 PM
My wife, family , and friends of mine own several properties together. We try to make all units affordable and upkept. So on an inspection this morning , prompted by a utility provider that they cut off service to one of my u its. Heading the law I immediately went there to see what the issue was. I find after doing an inspection a level of poverty that is unacceptable in this country. Several basic needs in my unit, I will say it was my unit that was in bad shape. This family has been behind since movibg in. They have never paid on time, but made honest attempts to pay, they never called for repairs out of fear for me hitting them up for rent. Just remember all poverty is not seen. As a man with children I had tears over this, and will say I am guilty of not seeing the poverty that was in front of my eyes.
Whaw whaw whaw! Im sure there is "poverty" in the world, but it can be conquered by people in that situation.
My mother divorced when I had just started school and was on welfare and was struggling to make ends meet with my sister an I as little kids. I am VERY proud to say she was only on welfare for 6 months, with assistance for another 6 months after that. She busted her bellybutton to make it work. She worked, and me and my sister took care of the apartments we lived in.
It instilled in me a healthy work ethic and a strong will to take care of my family. Mom passed away with a new husband in and middle class home that was paid for. I have two sons, one with a bachelors degree in computer science, and the other with a masters in computer sciences, both working in their fields and making more money than I ever have.
Poverty is for those who wish to wallow in it. Either get up and pull your self out of it, or shut the F up. Nobody says its easy, but nobody is suppose to do it for you either.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: Shuffler on March 23, 2019, 03:29:04 AM
Unemployment just tracks those who were gainfully employed and are not now that are receiving unemployment benefits. If one is not employed and one does not receive unemployed benefits, they are not counted.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: TWCAxew on March 23, 2019, 06:23:42 AM
Sometimes poverty is self afflicted and sometimes it's nothing you can do about.
Anyway John I salute you for trying to help this family, and yes poverty can even in the west be a serious problem. I am sure everyone here knows someone that is in serious debt.
DutchVII
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: Easyscor on March 23, 2019, 09:07:26 AM
Poverty can be a generational thing with two parents unable or unwilling to help their kids with education and school work. It’s not a pretty picture. Unless the community steps up, those kids are going to have a tough time in life; possibly having no other choice to support their family except through crime. Not making excuses for criminals, just talking about kids without guidance and opportunity.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: FLS on March 23, 2019, 10:21:22 AM
People of normal intelligence can work their way out of poverty. 10% of the population isn't smart enough for military service, even if they were fit enough which is another problem. Low IQ people and the mentally ill lack the ability to fully support themselves but they can still reproduce and make other bad choices. They need help which many don't get. The current solution for the kids in a dysfunctional home is foster care, which generally sucks for the kids.
There are no easy answers. In the 30's the popular idea was to eliminate them, one way or another, from forced sterilization to state sanctioned murder, depending on the country. Now the mentally ill are often homeless or in prison since patient's rights advocates got them out of mental hospitals, many of which were horrible places, but being homeless on their own is hardly better.
History shows us that poverty is the natural state even for normal people. The rise in the worldwide standard of living from the benefits of western civilization is largely unappreciated. Looking at the current poverty in Venezuela we see how fragile that standard of living is.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: Copprhed on March 23, 2019, 10:24:11 AM
Frankly, you can blame the poor person for being poor, which is uncharitable at best, and showing a less that humane attitude, or you can show the GRACE that we are shown daily, which we can never earn. I praise the OP for publicly admitting that he didn't realize or see what is there, everywhere, all the time. You can call me "bleeding heart", or anything else you care to. I call it grateful for what I have, and understanding that I am blessed so that I can share those blessings with others. May you all be shown the grace that you show others.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: Shuffler on March 23, 2019, 11:49:10 AM
Frankly, you can blame the poor person for being poor, which is uncharitable at best, and showing a less that humane attitude, or you can show the GRACE that we are shown daily, which we can never earn. I praise the OP for publicly admitting that he didn't realize or see what is there, everywhere, all the time. You can call me "bleeding heart", or anything else you care to. I call it grateful for what I have, and understanding that I am blessed so that I can share those blessings with others. May you all be shown the grace that you show others.
Then you can't blame the rich person for being rich. In fact you can't blame anyone for anything. I totally disagree. For every action there is a reaction.
I am a giving person. I help my neighbors before I take care of my own chores. On the other hand I do not waste time or money on anyone who does not try to help themselves.
I offered a job to a guy holding a sign under the highway bridge. His sign said he lost is job and was asking for food. He was less than a mile from the shop but never showed. He was just milking folks for money.
I will pick and choose who I help.... I'm no fool.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: TWCAxew on March 23, 2019, 12:08:17 PM
Then you can't blame the rich person for being rich. In fact you can't blame anyone for anything. I totally disagree. For every action there is a reaction.
Nobody blames anyone. He is just asking for everyone to keep an eye out to people around you. Also you don't know why someone becomes poor to begin with. This family in particular has never asked him to do anything for them. The point that they decieve anybody is preposterous let alone that anyone deserves it. I can imagine getting no other job than at Mac Donalds and earning minimum wage. For a family that's hardly enough to live from.
DutchVII
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: Copprhed on March 23, 2019, 02:18:22 PM
Nobody blames anyone. He is just asking for everyone to keep an eye out to people around you. Also you don't know why someone becomes poor to begin with. This family in particular has never asked him to do anything for them. The point that they decieve anybody is preposterous let alone that anyone deserves it. I can imagine getting no other job than at Mac Donalds and earning minimum wage. For a family that's hardly enough to live from.
DutchVII
Most of the "haves" blame the "have nots" for being that way. It is unfathomable to me, who HAS BEEN THERE, that the phrase "until you walk a mile in their shoes" means absolutely nothing to them. Hence my earnest prayer, "may He who shows us grave that we can NEVER deserve, show them the grace that they show others." My last word on the subject.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: BOBO on March 23, 2019, 02:23:07 PM
I've been everything between poor and upper middle class and I used to think that in America, the poor are poor because they're getting screwed over by the system.
When the great recession hit, my great job was eliminated and I took a much lower paying job where I spent nearly all of my time interacting with people who live purely on welfare benefits in their own homes. I quickly realized that these people were not poor because they were getting screwed over, they were poor because they make really bad decisions and do not plan for much of anything beyond the end of their own nose. In the US at least, we have opportunity coming out of our ears and all the typical person has to do is put forth some effort to reap the benefits.
This thread started off simply with the OP venting a bit and also showing us that he has a good conscience. My response is simply this. What did you do after speaking to your tenant? Were you able to help them? Or even better, were you able to help them help their self?
Understanding and somewhat embracing the Pareto Principle has served me very well and I suggest others do the same. To me, the reality of Pareto distributions in society is neither deniable or unfair.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: Meatwad on March 23, 2019, 02:30:00 PM
Without getting political, there are also people that choose to live on welfare because they are too lazy to get a job, and know how to "game" the system
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: BLINK on March 23, 2019, 02:35:37 PM
poverty sux....
until people realize that things are not what matters, nothing is going to change.
take for instance a thief...he steals...someone shoots him for stealing...kills him.....everyone praises them oh good for you...wtg...you stopped that thief....
thief stole...
the other guy murdered....
nothing...no physical possession is worth more then a human life.... unless they are a rabid dog....you know stole cold rapist.. pedo's... murderers...like any rabid dog they need to be put down...humanely
just my opinion.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: Shuffler on March 23, 2019, 04:29:31 PM
until people realize that things are not what matters, nothing is going to change.
take for instance a thief...he steals...someone shoots him for stealing...kills him.....everyone praises them oh good for you...wtg...you stopped that thief....
thief stole...
the other guy murdered....
nothing...no physical possession is worth more then a human life.... unless they are a rabid dog....you know stole cold rapist.. pedo's... murderers...like any rabid dog they need to be put down...humanely
just my opinion.
I let a person decide the value of their life. It is not yup to me to value their life for them
If they think my mower is worth their life.... their choice.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: BLINK on March 23, 2019, 05:12:59 PM
I let a person decide the value of their life. It is not yup to me to value their life for them
If they think my mower is worth their life.... their choice.
I hear that, and most people I know, that's how they believe, I use to also think like that....really dislike thieves....but I am trying to be Zen...seeing my boy dying in a hospital bed...and all the other people there.... the pain in that place was like a fog..
we where in the place for kids, my boy was 18 so they considered him young enough to be there...
that's when it truly started to hit me..in the caf....I was just looking at all these lost people...and felt an overwhelming since of sadness for them.....realized I have been carrying around so much anger that I couldn't see people, for what they were...people who Loved and dreamed and made mistakes and each one have their own ordeals they have gone through.....who Love their families have struggles that we will never know about....
I decided to give people my empathy and understanding instead of the contempt I have always given them....
I will never believe that morals are subjective, and we should all strive to be more empathetic.
again IMO :salute
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: Shuffler on March 23, 2019, 05:44:31 PM
I hear that, and most people I know, that's how they believe, I use to also think like that....really dislike thieves....but I am trying to be Zen...seeing my boy dying in a hospital bed...and all the other people there.... the pain in that place was like a fog..
we where in the place for kids, my boy was 18 so they considered him young enough to be there...
that's when it truly started to hit me..in the caf....I was just looking at all these lost people...and felt an overwhelming since of sadness for them.....realized I have been carrying around so much anger that I couldn't see people, for what they were...people who Loved and dreamed and made mistakes and each one have their own ordeals they have gone through.....who Love their families have struggles that we will never know about....
I decided to give people my empathy and understanding instead of the contempt I have always given them....
I will never believe that morals are subjective, and we should all strive to be more empathetic.
again IMO :salute
I've never met a man I didn't like. They have to prove to me that I do not like them.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: TheBug on March 23, 2019, 06:11:16 PM
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: Vraciu on March 23, 2019, 06:26:11 PM
Gawd, I love virtue signalINg. /sarcasm.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: Getback on March 29, 2019, 09:23:41 AM
No one likes seeing people hurt especially children. Most poverty that I have seen in these United States is self imposed by drugs, Alcoholism, or just poor choices.
There's been studies done and it appears there are only 3 rules to make it to the middle class: 1. Don't get pregnant out of wedlock 2. Work full time, and 3 complete high school.
Nothing fancy and nothing tough about it. I can actually narrow those rules to one thing. Have good moral character. I realize we all fall short but striving is important.
There's nothing wrong with helping people through difficult times. The key is what is the family doing to help themselves.
Title: Re: Invisible Poverty
Post by: SysError on March 31, 2019, 01:14:42 PM
Whaw whaw whaw! Im sure there is "poverty" in the world, but it can be conquered by people in that situation.
...
Poverty is for those who wish to wallow in it. Either get up and pull your self out of it, or shut the F up. Nobody says its easy, but nobody is suppose to do it for you either.