When a country's numbers drop below 20, lock base capture.
This allows the remaining players to enjoy furballs and fights rather than trying to defend a base against over-whelming odds.
Or be part of the gang bang that is typical. Isn’t free jets an tiger 2s enough?
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: Arlo on April 16, 2019, 05:57:53 PM
I hoped this might be a suggestion for what players can do to enhance their play in such situations and not another 'change the game for me' request. :D
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: DmonSlyr on April 16, 2019, 06:14:53 PM
When a country's numbers drop below 20, lock base capture.
This allows the remaining players to enjoy furballs and fights rather than trying to defend a base against over-whelming odds.
Nope..taking away the real object of the game is a bad idea.
The real solution is to make maps smaller with shorter bases during off hour times. Like the BowlMA map this weekend, during off hours. Bish had 7 players and no way to get to the other side to fight. This also caused an imbalance in ENY. Funny enough, no one still won the map the next day. Putting players in a tighter box will increase the fights and #s.
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: Shuffler on April 16, 2019, 10:48:31 PM
You mean the original object of the game.
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: guncrasher on April 17, 2019, 02:51:20 AM
I was on late at night a couple of days ago. looked at the map realized most players were at tt having their fun, I am not a tanker and didnt feel like going to spoil their fun with bombs. so I took a base, brought b24's wf town, bailed, brought a mossie to deack, then brought m3. all in less than 30 minutes. then i saw another base, long shot, brought tank with rockets, killed ack wf it, then heard a squadie that was on that he was defending a base by himself and there was an m3 and bombers overhead. i stopped and went to help him. m3 was tracked i guess ack came up too soon or they didnt kill it. m3 dead, he killed the bombers, a fighter came to deack town and he died. i got a couple of m3's and resuplied town.
now you say this is a fighting game, well the guys in tank town were fighting with each other, i took a base that nobody defended, true, but I did help defend another.
now you call for bases to be unconquerable during low numbers, now you think those guys at tt would have upped fighters? or you think me and squadie and the people attacking who probably dont like tanks log.
semp
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: Overlag on April 18, 2019, 05:37:11 AM
you assume the players want to furball? this is part of the reason the game lost numbers, the assumption that people want to furball 24/7
(first post in GD for about 8 years lol)
You raise a valid point.
I left the game because people do not want to furball. I joined because it was a place for fighter pilots to do fighter pilot stuff. Fewer and fewer people wanted to do that so I left.
What do you think they want to do? What is your opinion in how to boost numbers?
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: guncrasher on April 18, 2019, 09:04:26 AM
I left the game because people do not want to furball. I joined because it was a place for fighter pilots to do fighter pilot stuff. Fewer and fewer people wanted to do that so I left.
What do you think they want to do? What is your opinion in how to boost numbers?
you might get the answer you want if you first tell us what is your definition of a furrball. and how many players make a furball. only asking that because a certain player accused rooks Tuesday of only wanting to furball.
so I guess one third of the players and I assume some of the bishops and knights were also in the furball. I don't know.
semp
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: Arlo on April 18, 2019, 09:17:41 AM
Welp ....
There are players that just wanna GV ...
There are players that just wanna fighter joust ...
There are players that just wanna move mud ...
There are players that just wanna move fleets around ...
There are players that just wanna type dung on 200 ...
There are players that just wanna do it all ...
And there are players that just wanna furball (and can't understand players that enjoy any aspect of the game other than that). :D
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: Oldman731 on April 18, 2019, 10:53:43 AM
I left the game because people do not want to furball. I joined because it was a place for fighter pilots to do fighter pilot stuff. Fewer and fewer people wanted to do that so I left.
What do you think they want to do? What is your opinion in how to boost numbers?
Good questions. There has always been a significant number of people who want to help their team win the game. So long as their participation is directed to that goal, they don't care whether they fly a P-51 or a goon - or even whether they're in a plane. This group of people has probably existed since the inception of AH, but I can tell you that it was there in late 2001 and has been there since.
Similarly, there is, and has always been, a group of people who just want to fly with their friends. For them, it isn't even critically important that human opposition exist, so long as they can stay together in a common effort. Some of the big squads, just before the Great Arena Split, personified this group.
The game has always allowed all of these factions to co-exist. There has always been tension between them. As numbers decrease, those tensions are just more evident.
As to what should - or can - be done to increase numbers? I doubt that we will ever again see 600 people at one time - and, when I first joined, that would have been considered an unrealistically high number, too. Really, I don't miss it. Those huge numbers encouraged what I thought was bad game play and a sewer-like atmosphere. I do think that we can get better numbers than what we have now. I have no new suggestions, but I think these have promise:
- A game manual. It doesn't even have to be comprehensive. One like I get when I buy a new computer or a cell phone or any other device - a "Quick Start", that illustrates how to set up the controller, how to select a plane, how to bring up the chat buffer, and where to find more information and youtube-like video. All of this information currently exists, in a variety of places, but it suffers from (a) being TOO comprehensive, discouraging people from wading through it to find the answer, and (b) not being obvious.
- A longer free trial. I understand that the vast majority of new people don't stay more than a few minutes. We weren't going to hold them in the first place, and probably we never have. For the small subset of people who do want to go further - and really, we don't need a huge number of them - I've never thought that two weeks was sufficient to get a real handle on the game.
- oldman
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: The Fugitive on April 18, 2019, 11:08:49 AM
you assume the players want to furball? this is part of the reason the game lost numbers, the assumption that people want to furball 24/7
(first post in GD for about 8 years lol)
Why do people jump to the "furball" label? Could it be that Fess might enjoy defending a base, as long as the attacker try to stop him? Could it be that Fess might be happy attacking a base as long as defenders try to stop him and his mates?
The game is suppose to be a leader in combat games and yet you seem to find more players than not that want to have nothing to do with COMBAT.
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: CptTrips on April 18, 2019, 11:18:08 AM
All games have people leaving all the time. This game did too even when it had 600+ players a night. It is unreasonable to think that attrition number is ever going to be close to zero. It might not even be more now than it was at the games peak.
The other term of the equation is how many people are being added. I'm pretty sure that is not as high as it was at the game's peak.
A more complete statement might be that the root cause of low numbers is not as many people coming in as leaving.
As I said before, I think HTC had a stroke of luck in the early days with the demise of AW and FA. Ready-made, pre-packages users looking for a replacement sim. That and a loyal base at Warbirds that were willing to follow him to another sim. That was winning the lottery for a startup.
Now, it's going to be a much harder slog to replace every player that dies of old age. That's going to require flexibility and openness to change. A different generation. A different market. Different expectations.
If it were easy, everybody would own a MMOG. ;)
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: Overlag on April 18, 2019, 12:28:29 PM
There are players that just wanna fighter joust ...
There are players that just wanna move mud ...
There are players that just wanna move fleets around ...
There are players that just wanna type dung on 200 ...
There are players that just wanna do it all ...
And there are players that just wanna furball (and can't understand players that enjoy any aspect of the game other than that). :D
exactly this, you cant ban all other types of gameplay and just have one type to suit a few people. Its a shame this game ended up this way, i came back a week ago and cant believe how much the mighty has fallen. Was it a gradual process or did a sudden change cause this?
Why do people jump to the "furball" label? Could it be that Fess might enjoy defending a base, as long as the attacker try to stop him? Could it be that Fess might be happy attacking a base as long as defenders try to stop him and his mates?
The game is suppose to be a leader in combat games and yet you seem to find more players than not that want to have nothing to do with COMBAT.
well if the OP wants to ban basetaking what is left in the game?
I cant really offer suggestions since im a freeloader atm and may not stay but somethings i thought might help
1: only small maps, no point having big maps with sub 100 players. 2: bring back a mode Hitech tried many many moons ago (2004?), where only 1 base on EACH front was available to be captured at a time. This put both the furballers and the basetakers next to each other. At the time i hated that, but with so few players it makes sense now. 3: The game has a massive learning curve and needs more to help newbies IMO
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: Ciaphas on April 18, 2019, 12:40:43 PM
All games have people leaving all the time. This game did too even when it had 600+ players a night. It is unreasonable to think that attrition number is ever going to be close to zero. It might not even be more now than it was at the games peak.
The other term of the equation is how many people are being added. I'm pretty sure that is not as high as it was at the game's peak.
A more complete statement might be that the root cause of low numbers is not as many people coming in as leaving.
As I said before, I think HTC had a stroke of luck in the early days with the demise of AW and FA. Ready-made, pre-packages users looking for a replacement sim. That and a loyal base at Warbirds that were willing to follow him to another sim. That was winning the lottery for a startup.
Now, it's going to be a much harder slog to replace every player that dies of old age. That's going to require flexibility and openness to change. A different generation. A different market. Different expectations.
If it were easy, everybody would own a MMOG. ;)
however people leaving because there are not enough people only perpetuates the issue. That is undeniable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: BLINK on April 18, 2019, 12:41:53 PM
I've been back a couple weeks now....and nothing has changed at all from 3 years ago...nothing...ya game looks way better.....it actually looks awesome.... other then that, nothing at all has changed...except numbers are lower...
people don't want to fight...people cant handle "losing" and it is sad to me...
obviously not everyone is like that...I dont care if I die every sortie...as long as I had a good fight....thats all that matters....
but most here...I mean you have people that have been playing for years...and still all they do is fly straight at you firing away...then run as soon as they are not in a great position...and then cry when they go to tower....make up any excuse why they are their.... never even contemplating it may be their own damn fault....
that was one thing that drove me crazy before....now its worse because there are a lot less people playing....
the only way to truly get more players is to Advertise....Money and lots of it....
I think this game itself is awesome...obviously its why I keep coming back....
but the majority of the player base....ya not so much.....i was flying in WT the 3 years not here...and they are just as toxic...
it is the internet....people know they can say and do whatever with no consequences....they talk smack and chase off thin skinned people....noobies....
after awhile you get this...a core group of guys who are so stubborn they cant see the rubble around them.....blame everything else but themselves....
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: CptTrips on April 18, 2019, 12:57:50 PM
however people leaving because there are not enough people only perpetuates the issue. That is undeniable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree. That can at least be part of the issue.
And social networks don't always decline in a linear mode. Sometimes you reach an event horizon and things just fall over all at once. Colony collapse. Just as MySpace.
I don't think we are at that point yet, HTC has a very loyal customer base that has a very shallow attrition curve. But population is trending downward. It can't be ignored or papered over. But hopefully it can still be reversed. The shallowness of that attrition trend buys you some room to maneuver.
:salute
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: Wiley on April 18, 2019, 01:29:53 PM
And social networks don't always decline in a linear mode. Sometimes you reach an event horizon and things just fall over all at once. Colony collapse. Just as MySpace.
I don't think we are at that point yet, HTC has a very loyal customer base that has a very shallow attrition curve. But population is trending downward. It can't be ignored or papered over. But hopefully it can still be reversed. The shallowness of that attrition trend buys you some room to maneuver.
:salute
Orcs. Dragons. They will save the game.
I really think a large part of the problem is the new guy experience is just not as polished as pretty much anything else on the market, and that turns off the majority.
Ink, you likely missed the conversation but it's not that people can't find the game, it's that they don't stick around past a few minutes after installing and logging in for the first time.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: Arlo on April 18, 2019, 01:50:17 PM
I like the game. I liked it before the graphics upgrade. I suspect I'd like the VR aspect, if and when I try it. Any aspect of it that I don't like has options where I don't have to deal with it (Ch. 200? Detune. ENY? Switch sides. Low action on my front? Switch sides. MA burnout? Fly events or FSO.)
The only thing I can't seem to do is convince those that are bound and determined that the game they also liked suddenly became unlikable (often due to dwindling #s) and that they gotta quit it but post about why they quit it and all ... is that they're their own misery though they still seem to like the company of active players on the forum (which is cool and all, man, but .... ).
I wanna suspect it's something in the air or water they consume.
An answer? Everybody seems to have one (or more). They tend to overlook that if they all (the living ones) came back to play then, well, like, look - growing numbers, man.
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: CptTrips on April 18, 2019, 02:12:51 PM
I really think a large part of the problem is the new guy experience is just not as polished as pretty much anything else on the market, and that turns off the majority.
Ink, you likely missed the conversation but it's not that people can't find the game, it's that they don't stick around past a few minutes after installing and logging in for the first time.
Wiley.
oh I got it...think you missed where I addressed that issue... :old:
100% believe if the main player base were not so toxic,and more willing to treat it like a game....and not a life or death struggle.... players would stay longer....if players stayed longer then the OT would be a non issue.
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: Arlo on April 18, 2019, 03:43:22 PM
Then there's the lack of brothels.
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: CptTrips on April 18, 2019, 03:52:37 PM
oh I got it...think you missed where I addressed that issue... :old:
100% believe if the main player base were not so toxic,and more willing to treat it like a game....and not a life or death struggle.... players would stay longer....if players stayed longer then the OT would be a non issue.
I was referring to your statement about advertising saving the game. It won't if they don't stick around.
How on earth do you get put off by toxicity within a few minutes of logging in? True, if you come in in the middle of some dolt's rant it could be offputting but they aren't babbling all the time.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: Arlo on April 18, 2019, 03:57:55 PM
Or water slides.
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: DmonSlyr on April 18, 2019, 04:53:51 PM
I like the idea of a manual for players. I know it's been talked about and probably has been halfway made by someone already, but it's tough to get other guys to work on it and I think the enthusiasm died.
If there are no other changes to gameplay that can be made, really it all just comes down to the maps and how they generate the action. I can almost promise you that the majority of players have left because of the time it takes per sortie. A 15-20 minute sortie is a lot longer than most games and to roll for one con in the sky seems like a waste of time. My generation is not patient at all, which Is why they go to something like WT or IL2. I personally love the open map idea, it just has to funnel players.
Maps should able to bring the tankers, bombers, furballers, and base takers takers to the same area. People of all styles should be in the same area. That's what creates a great atmosphere.
I think some of the new planes like the Yak3 and Spit16, have deterred more long time subscribers because fighting 5 of them over an over again just gets old. Players think the only way they can compete is by grabbing the easiest fastest gamiest planes. This has made fights less exciting.
Failure to implement important fixes in a timely manner has resulted in many leaving. A great example is the Match play arena. Not being able to choose teams or choose who you want to fight has been a big issue. The Match play could be great... But it's lacking directions and being able to choose fights. Hitech needs a bigger team for map making and implementation.
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: Shuffler on April 18, 2019, 04:54:25 PM
I have the optimal fix. When numbers drop below a certain point, those with split personalities.... split them and fly separately. The will add at leas another third the number of folks. That is not even counting those with more than two personalities.
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: Arlo on April 18, 2019, 05:01:32 PM
Failure to implement important fixes in a timely manner has resulted in many leaving. A great example is the Match play arena. Not being able to choose teams or choose who you want to fight has been a big issue. The Match play could be great... But it's lacking directions and being able to choose fights. Hitech needs a bigger team for map making and implementation.
Because MPA pays the bills how?
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: DmonSlyr on April 18, 2019, 05:24:25 PM
It's a great arena for new players to figure out their set ups and jump into a quick fight. If new players cannot find action quickly enough after they get set up, they just get bored or discourgaed and quit. Keeping them in the game longer increases their chances to subscribe. Match play could have been a great counter to the WT type of crowd but if one squad cannot duel against another, it defeats that purpose.
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: bustr on April 18, 2019, 05:31:44 PM
Arlo,
Quote
Failure to implement important fixes in a timely manner has resulted in many leaving. A great example is the Match play arena. Not being able to choose teams or choose who you want to fight has been a big issue. The Match play could be great... But it's lacking directions and being able to choose fights. Hitech needs a bigger team for map making and implementation.
He maybe had a line of reasoning based on his crystal ball viewing HTC's database of every customer who has canceled their account in the last 3 years until his split personality clubbed him and took over writing about terrain building instead.
And I did work out with Hitech in FX1's challenge post how to get a combat AI arena running on the custom HOST partly to help people just get a personal dueling arena going to save all those subscription canceling un-named customers from getting angry. That way they would stop telling Viol personally they are canceling their subscription so he has one more detailed account in his database of canceled subscribers becasue the match play arena is not working the way he wants it to.
I seem to remember towards the end of last month I reported a bug with the terrain editor and a few days later it was fixed. But then it was a bug and it did impact the terrain editor so I had to work around it for a few days. That must have PO'd the terrain team and made them all cancel their accounts at the same time............
Title: Re: Suggestion for low numbers game play
Post by: Arlo on April 18, 2019, 05:39:44 PM
Maybe entire events can be arranged for players with cancelled accounts in the MPA because they are tired of AH being AH. :D