Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Bannor on May 10, 2019, 10:39:01 PM
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I very rarely complain about anything, but 2 Hurris attacked our bombers as we crossed paths with their bombers. I ended up in a collision. Not cool! know your assignment and stick to it!
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I've never seen orders to ignore targets of opportunity. Especially when bombers can shoot up enemy bombers if their paths cross.
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My understanding is we stick to our roles. There are defenders assigned to a target. If the strike package gets encountered by another strike package and a an engagement ensues this could potententally affect what the defenders have to deal with and ruin their part in a particular frame. This does not help the FSO scenario as a whole. I would hate to waste several hours waiting for something that may never arrive. But I guess there are those selfish enough to not care about others gameplay and only there own.
Muttman
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I very rarely complain about anything, but 2 Hurris attacked our bombers as we crossed paths with their bombers. I ended up in a collision. Not cool! know your assignment and stick to it!
That is combat. No FSO rule was broken. Side CIC and Side Squad COs are free to give tactical decisions.
My understanding is we stick to our roles. There are defenders assigned to a target. If the strike package gets encountered by another strike package and a an engagement ensues this could potententally affect what the defenders have to deal with and ruin their part in a particular frame. This does not help the FSO scenario as a whole. I would hate to waste several hours waiting for something that may never arrive. But I guess there are those selfish enough to not care about others gameplay and only there own.
Muttman
That is combat also. Our primary role as pilots is to follow the CIC battleplan. Side CIC and Side Squad COs are free to give tactical decisions. If a pilot takes the opportunity to attack the enemy on their own when crossing paths, then they risk getting shot down by an overwhelming defense. Again, that is combat.
I understand your frustration. Isolated incidents of early combat opportunity will no hurt the FSO as a whole. It adds to the FSO as a whole by throwing some wrinkles into the opposing side's CIC plans. It shows that with all of that three dimensional air space, Opposing strike forces can cross paths not knowing the other's intention.
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So basically you are saying this is the "fog of war". If there is no rule against it then there should be if not for anything else, as a rule of etiquette.
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So what would have happened if we would have detached our 16+ Pig and 412th escort plus JG 11 and shot down all the B-25s before our designated defenders got a chance at them?
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So what would have happened if we would have detached our 16+ Pig and 412th escort plus JG 11 and shot down all the B-25s before our designated defenders got a chance at them?
As long as it is communicated, it could work out. The defenders would have no need in staying home, so they could begin the flight to enemy territory. But, ehat really should happen is COs remaining disciplined. This happened to us in Frane 1 and exactly 0 of my pilots went after the bombers.
There is no rule pertaining to this situation, but if the community feels there needs to be one so be it.
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While I realize there is no rule regarding this, it does affect the spirit for which FSO is about. The right thing to do is report it and move on and let the defenders decide how they want to deal with it. This isn't real war where you must win at all cost, it's a contest of planning and coordination developed for X number of people 3 Friday night's a month. If you think it's ok to disregard the time and effort that real people put into this and use the old "target of opportunity" excuse, then you have missed the point of these events. I very rarely complain about anything. I don't care if we are outnumbered, have a crappy plane set, or suffer from a bad plan, it's a challenge to overcome if possible. But this rankles me and I have no problem coming in here and saying so.
Rant over. See y'all next week. :salute
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I vaguely do remember this discussion coming up years ago and it was agreed missions would stick to their orders. But I have been flying FSO for nearly 20 years so maybe someone needs to formalize this stuff.
Bannor fwiw I did see one of our formations fly right into the other guys and bombers engaged bombers so umm "we" might've started it. IIRC it was a guy called McCrowly but there isn't anyone in the logs like that (maybe he was a random?).
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Almost makes ya wonder what would've happened in real life in the unlikely event Allied and Axis bomber streams crossed. Probably waving and taking pictures.
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So what would have happened if we would have detached our 16+ Pig and 412th escort plus JG 11 and shot down all the B-25s before our designated defenders got a chance at them?
Folks would be PO'd, But we managed to keep Horses & Pigs headed the right direction and smashed the target. You have no idea how hard it is to keep Pig fighters off of enemy bombers... :uhoh
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Bannor fwiw I did see one of our formations fly right into the other guys and bombers engaged bombers so umm "we" might've started it. IIRC it was a guy called McCrowly but there isn't anyone in the logs like that (maybe he was a random?).
It was MrCrowly that I saw behind and below me being attacked with one bomber on fire. He was the farthest out from the group. If he engaged first then he deserved what he got and he owes me a new plane! :furious
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Well this exact same scenario happened last week in Frame I.
Our strike for flew over the incoming enemy strikeforce about 12K below us. All of us figthers were just itching to drop down onto the force....but we radioed the position and heading in and continued.
On the other hand...I can only think of a couple of FSO's where we were assigned CAP and ZERO (none, zip, nada) bombers showed up. In fact...not a single enemy plane appeared over the base we were protecting....one of the fighter escort groups took the target of opportunity and wiped them all out half way to target. Oh well....we landed early and flew in the MA. Annoying....yes...but we (the Country) scored big that evening.
BTW.... Salute to Bgoldy, Silent and Pullerll on the 3 V 3 knife fight on the deck with the AKs!
AKSofty
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The Unforgiven rule: We find something red, and then we attack it. A lot of thought went into that plan...
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Folks would be PO'd, But we managed to keep Horses & Pigs headed the right direction and smashed the target. You have no idea how hard it is to keep Pig fighters off of enemy bombers... :uhoh
Pretty much this...ruins the night for the defenders as well as the now unescorted bombers as surely they'll get mauled inbound to target.
With that said think there's a big difference between 1-2 airplanes messing with the attackers/shadowing the strike and 1-2 full squads wiping them out. Sometimes you will have a couple people attack if they can't help themselves, fortunately most squads are disciplined enough to stick to the orders and their CO.
I'd say best practice is to always follow the orders of the CIC or CO if CIC delegated flight lead to a squad CO.
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CiCs have to take into account a more confined battle space when making route plans. That also is realistic. Tactical units close to the front lines had to take into account the level of enemy activity in the area.
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As long as it is communicated, it could work out. The defenders would have no need in staying home, so they could begin the flight to enemy territory. But, ehat really should happen is COs remaining disciplined. This happened to us in Frane 1 and exactly 0 of my pilots went after the bombers.
There is no rule pertaining to this situation, but if the community feels there needs to be one so be it.
Really. A rule to not engage an enemy plane because some one might get upset. Lol. What’s next no engagement until cleared by a cic and he checks with the opposing pilot and that pilot says it’s on to be engaged. Then the cic can relate to the attacking pilot that’s it’s ok to engage him. Give me a break
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Years ago when JG11 had many more pilots every week, as all of our squads did.
We were in FW-190s but part of the attackers. We came across B-17's with escort out of position.
It did not end well for the B-17's that night. That started the conversation about attackers not engaging the enemy attackers.
I am pretty sure, did not go back and read the discussion, that everyone was on board with letting attackers go.
We have been on the receiving end of this in JU-88s as well.
About a year later we were once again in FW-190s and flew right by a big formation of B-24's...... Oh the TEMPTATION was there
But STAMPF kept us on mission.
Last Friday when our attackers crossed paths, we heard the call of Hurris attacking so a few of us went in to chase them off. On the way back we saw the B-25's
We just flew by as a recon for speed and altitude and direction. I did not fire a shot.... from the guns but got a good recon photo :D
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZqQrfryf/Say-CHEESE.png)
It may not be a rule, but I am pretty sure that most, if not ALL of us know if you are on the attack mission and you see the enemy attack mission, you just keep on flying... after you call out alt speed and direction :salute
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Well this exact same scenario happened last week in Frame I.
Our strike for flew over the incoming enemy strikeforce about 12K below us. All of us figthers were just itching to drop down onto the force....but we radioed the position and heading in and continued.
To be honest Softy, all but one. The logs show four bomber kills.