Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ONTOS on June 20, 2019, 03:36:09 PM

Title: Tracers
Post by: ONTOS on June 20, 2019, 03:36:09 PM
I haven't paid much, if any attention to actual WW II  aircraft films showing tracers. My question is that did any pilots or squadrons request ammo be belted without tracers. I know we can do it here, but is it realistic. Again just asking.
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: Bizman on June 21, 2019, 02:19:49 PM
I don't know about requests about no tracers, but I have read about having a tracer belted at certain intervals. So if it was something that the pilot could decide to use more or less, the option of not using tracers was clearly available.
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: Wiley on June 21, 2019, 02:51:29 PM
Pretty sure night flyers didn't use them.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: ONTOS on June 21, 2019, 08:00:03 PM
Tracers were usually every fifth round.
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: icepac on June 21, 2019, 09:53:20 PM
Does aces high have "nightfighters"?

If not, a lot of existing planes have variants that would be cool but they might affect the gun destructiveness balance.   Not really sure.
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: Vraciu on June 21, 2019, 10:21:13 PM
Tracers were usually every fifth round.

John Bolt found during a lengthy 1943 experiment that every sixth round was most effective against Japanese aircraft.  This became fairly common in the Pacific after word got around.
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: Mongoose on June 21, 2019, 10:36:45 PM
  I don't have a source to quote, but I do remember pilots and squadrons deliberately flying without tracers. In some cases they found that the tracers did not follow the same path as the regular bullets, and they were misleading the pilots.  This was corrected later in the war.

Again, I remember reading this a long time ago, but I don't remember where.
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: pembquist on June 21, 2019, 11:11:41 PM
I read the same thing but, as with you, I cannot remember where. I believe that what I read said that the accuracy went up without the tracers.
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: FBDragon on June 22, 2019, 04:15:25 AM
I'll 3rd that, early in the war they found that the tracer round did not have the trajectory as the other rounds. Plus it also alerted the enemy that they were being shot at if the intitial rounds missed. :cheers: :salute
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: ONTOS on June 22, 2019, 11:23:41 AM
Vraciu, please tell me were you found that John Bolt said that about every sixth round was a better place for the tracer. I looked and , while finding him and his career, did not see his comment  on the tracer.  Every thing I found was every fifth round was the tracer.  I would like more information please. Also I was an ordnance man in the Marine Corps during Vietnam. Loaded more ordnance than I care to remember. The F4B Phantom at that time used the 20mm HIPEG Mk 4 gun pod. We belted various types of ammo and tracer. Every fifth round. Would love to learn more. Thank you.  :salute
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: XconX on June 22, 2019, 06:38:29 PM
I seem to remember a Military channel program about WW2 aces that stated Canadian ace George Beurling insisted in having tracer ammunition removed from his load out. Googling that seems to confirm that. So at least one guy did it.
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: Vraciu on June 22, 2019, 07:36:42 PM
Vraciu, please tell me were you found that John Bolt said that about every sixth round was a better place for the tracer. I looked and , while finding him and his career, did not see his comment  on the tracer.  Every thing I found was every fifth round was the tracer.  I would like more information please. Also I was an ordnance man in the Marine Corps during Vietnam. Loaded more ordnance than I care to remember. The F4B Phantom at that time used the 20mm HIPEG Mk 4 gun pod. We belted various types of ammo and tracer. Every fifth round. Would love to learn more. Thank you.  :salute

It's in one of the Black Sheep books by either Gamble or Walton.   I gave both books away so I can't look it up for you, unfortunately.   
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: jimbo71 on June 23, 2019, 12:09:55 PM
I seem to remember a Military channel program about WW2 aces that stated Canadian ace George Beurling insisted in having tracer ammunition removed from his load out. Googling that seems to confirm that. So at least one guy did it.

Saw that episode.  He did have them remove the tracer rounds and replaced with regular rounds, also had crew reel in his convergence in to 250 as he liked to get in close with quick 2-second bursts.  He decapitated an Italian pilot from 100 ft. 
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: ONTOS on June 23, 2019, 12:51:18 PM
I'm 71years old, but I still like learning. Thanks.
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: Max on June 23, 2019, 02:00:50 PM
Finally...someone older than me!!!  :banana: :x :neener:
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: APDrone on June 23, 2019, 06:58:54 PM
Fork Tailed Devil, by Martin Caiden:

https://books.google.com/books?id=e9OCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT264&lpg=PT264&dq=lynch+tracer+ammunition+p38&source=bl&ots=hmskpSGULx&sig=ACfU3U2q4IvFavv0KhgfWnsVAXdEzjbDsg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi08czL5oDjAhUEbawKHZwtAWIQ6AEwEHoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=lynch%20tracer%20ammunition%20p38&f=false (https://books.google.com/books?id=e9OCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT264&lpg=PT264&dq=lynch+tracer+ammunition+p38&source=bl&ots=hmskpSGULx&sig=ACfU3U2q4IvFavv0KhgfWnsVAXdEzjbDsg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi08czL5oDjAhUEbawKHZwtAWIQ6AEwEHoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=lynch%20tracer%20ammunition%20p38&f=false)

In short, Tommy Lynch ordered the removal of tracer ammunition from their P38s.


Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: Oldman731 on June 23, 2019, 09:04:58 PM
Fork Tailed Devil, by Martin Caiden


Please.  I'd rather rely on the History Channel than on Caiden.  They make Wikipedia look like the Encyclopedia Brittanica.

- oldman
Title: Re: Tracers
Post by: icepac on June 24, 2019, 10:43:15 AM
A couple of my dad's squadron mates are still alive because tracers were purposely thrown where an attacker could see them causing him to break off his attack.   

Imagine how you would feel if you didn't have tracers in that situation and had to watch as your friend was shot down and killed because you selected to remove tracers from your ammo load out.

Many an enemy has been caused to break off an attack by someone who didn't have a shot but was able to throw out tracers that the enemy could see and scared him off.