Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: CRASH on September 11, 2001, 08:33:00 AM
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Turn off killshooter and use a png status jobber like AW did. 3 Freindly kills and ur done. Will put an end to all that kill stealin' nonsense right quick. It's happend to me a bunch of times and pisses me right the hell off. Fight a bandit 1v1 down to the deck from 20k, saddled up 200 off his 6 and some yahoo jumps in front of ur guns to steal the kill because he knows ur fire cant hurt him. Contolling your fire so you dont hit freindlies was a big deal in combat and should be in AH.
Of course now come the whines from all the guys who are only capable of getting kills by jumpin in front of ur guns to kill a bandit that's already been beaten......ok, ready, bring it on :)
CRASH
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Heh..we have all had kills "stolen" and have all dove into a fight and blamms someone elses "kill".
I'm all for it....turning off killshooter however think of the Gunman26's and a few others. We'd all be banned for killing our own guys and the whining would be worse!
PILOT 1 -- "YOU STOLE MY KILL....!"
PILOT 2 -- "DID NOT"
PILOT 1 -- "YOU SHOT ME DOWN TO GET TO THE BANDIT!!"
PILOT 2 -- "DID NOT...YOU FLEW IN FRONT OF ME AS I WAS FIRING..I HAVE FILM TO PROVE IT"
PILOT 1 -- "I'M TELLING HT!"
Country channel would be brutal listening to the bickering of your fellow pilots
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quick story
my squaddie and I were in 152s bouncing buffs ib our hq. We each got 2 when we spotted another. About this time a 38 came in co-alt. I lost sight of the 38 and my squaddie (target fixated on buff) I thought he went to deal with the 38. Hr actually dove behind and under me to hit the buff from below. I just came in ded 6 at a high rate of speed (buff pilot was newbie spraying wildly; easy kill right?). I flipped ovr to 30mm only and as I pulled the trigger my squaddie blew up the buff and flew through my bullet stream. I fired 5 30mm rounds at d 150 and saw 3 sprits. Well I instantly exploded :(
Now if no kill shooter I would have killed him. Either way it sucks. I'd rather not be killed by my team mates either way but I think I'd rather have some control of it. I only die due to killshooter if I pull the trigger.
I dont trust others not to shot me :)
Part of sa is knowing where your mates are and knowing what plane type they are in. On that last point I dont know how many times I tried to help someone and they assume I'm a niki or spit and go into some ufo evasives calling fer me to help :(
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Originally posted by Wotan:
quick story
my squaddie and I were in 152s bouncing buffs ib our hq. We each got 2 when we spotted another. About this time a 38 came in co-alt. I lost sight of the 38 and my squaddie (target fixated on buff) I thought he went to deal with the 38. Hr actually dove behind and under me to hit the buff from below. I just came in ded 6 at a high rate of speed (buff pilot was newbie spraying wildly; easy kill right?). I flipped ovr to 30mm only and as I pulled the trigger my squaddie blew up the buff and flew through my bullet stream. I fired 5 30mm rounds at d 150 and saw 3 sprits. Well I instantly exploded :(
Now if no kill shooter I would have killed him. Either way it sucks. I'd rather not be killed by my team mates either way but I think I'd rather have some control of it. I only die due to killshooter if I pull the trigger.
I dont trust others not to shot me :)
Part of sa is knowing where your mates are and knowing what plane type they are in. On that last point I dont know how many times I tried to help someone and they assume I'm a niki or spit and go into some ufo evasives calling fer me to help :(
Wotan ill give u xample of how kill shooter
99% of time punishs the wrong party.
i was saddled up on a bandits 6 about 400 out,, only friendlies were behind me. as i fired a volly, i started getting hhit sounds.
as i was getting them a friendly plane emerged from within my plane to infront, as i die i see him continue to on to the bandit.
he purposely flew through my plane to get to the kill. but yet i get punished with kill shooter, cause of some other morons doings. thats roadkill. id rather 3 to 5 friendly kills in 24 hour time u go no ammo/bombs for 24 hours. id much rather have same damage that enemy take from pings applied to friendly planes, instead of the 1 ping ur dead killshooter.
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Whels, I have news for you. Just because you see the guy fly through your plane does not mean that he did so on his FE. I spend a lot of time flying with Rude in formation; tight formation too. You should hear the comments.
Voss:"Okay, I'm 8 yards out."
Rude:"No, you're not, you're 78 yards out."
Voss:"Well, now you warped 200 behind me."
Rude:"No, you're still sitting there at 78 yards."
Voss:"Okay, you're back now. 8 yards."
RWY:"Voss, get a new ISP."
Somedays I wish killshooter WAS off. :D
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Originally posted by Voss:
Whels, I have news for you. Just because you see the guy fly through your plane does not mean that he did so on his FE. I spend a lot of time flying with Rude in formation; tight formation too. You should hear the comments.
Voss:"Okay, I'm 8 yards out."
Rude:"No, you're not, you're 78 yards out."
Voss:"Well, now you warped 200 behind me."
Rude:"No, you're still sitting there at 78 yards."
Voss:"Okay, you're back now. 8 yards."
RWY:"Voss, get a new ISP."
Somedays I wish killshooter WAS off. :D
Voss
u prove my point nicely, kill shooter punished me cause in FE he flew through
my plane when he might not have on his, but yet i still get ded from something NOT my fualt. either kill shooter needs to check both FEs and they = same then apply damage.
but u could do the same with shootin friendlies.
we need to put the burden on the cutting across, flying through others bullets to avoid it. not the pilot doing the right things. kill shooter as i stated punishes the wrong pilot most of the time.
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I STILL disagree. I don't want some first day newbie, or vengeful knitwit coming to my country and shooting me down IF I should ever get a good streak going. I can control where I aim and I usually know when there are others around from my own team. Avoiding this sort of problem is not that hard.
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Of all the proposed solutions to the problem of friendly fire in a game like AH, I personally much prefer killshooter. I haven't heard of a perfect solution yet, and Killshooter is simply the least repulsive to me.
Hooligan
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I've had a lot of problems with killshooter too. I once was engaged in a really great 1 v 1 in the MA, musta have gone on for 5 minutes, was really intense stuff, I finally managed to get on the baddies 6 and was firing and killed the bandit, a friendly (sarcasm evident) dives straight thru my bullet stream, I explode and he, without firing a shot gets the kill?
I would love to see killshooter turned off, if people kill friendlies deliberately, hunt them down and make it impossible for them to fly.
Killshooter turned off would also prevent idiots like gunman26 to harrass people, because his own country could've used coercive force :)
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What if
there was no killshooter at all.
or shooting friendlys down.
your bullets do nothing to your own guys.
at least then you wouldnt be punished those times someone flies in front of you
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I agree with moose. Why don't they just make the bullets have same affect on friendly aircraft as they do on freindly bases. I don't think your ammo or Ord has any affect on your own fields. I think that only change the ammo though, since I think killing yourself with Bombs is a good feature.
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I like killshooter. Perhaps because that's the only system I've ever flown with. The real down side to the PNG system is that I would never be able to fly, as I won't be able to stop myself from repeatedly killing my squaddies! :)
SOB
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IMO I think taking killshooter off would be a stupid idea. You just have to be careful. I do think a new system need to be put in place for kill stealing though. I lost 15 kills in one days to kill steals. Assists piss me off.
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Slips into his flame retardent suit...................Just make it so that friendly bullets dont hurt you or the man you shot its the perfect compromise.
Ok extingusher on standby
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we got that already Hobodog ... you can tell them armorers to load rubber bullets :D
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Killshooter mostly effects the plane train of circling buzzards that all dove to the deck after 1 lone con. Anyone i see killshooter themselves in that situation is worth the handfull of times it got me :)
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no killshooter ....not realistic
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At least remove kill shooter from GV`s. A few times protecting friendly GV`s I have been brought down because my rounds passed across the friendly M3.
Sometimes when I come in on a bandit that is attacking an M3 I will fire long distance shots to get him to break and go to a defence against me rather then an offence on the GV. BUT when my long distance rounds rake the GV my plane dies.
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I prefer kill shooter being on. Unless you have been shot down by some idjit who is just out to ruin your fun then you won't know where I'm coming from.
That aside some of the most fun I've ever had was with the RNZAF Squad in the Training arena in WB doing what we called a "vulchfest". Pick a plane and for the next 10 minutes you tried to kill as many squaddies as you can while using only one airfield. The most fun was flying with gunners in a buff because it took a lot of team work to kill the other guy.
Killshooter has it's place and I like it where it is.
Spotcha in the Air
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Arent scenarios like TOD and others flown with collisions on and killshooter off? If HTC is adjusting the perk system as we go, why not try a few nights with the killshooter off and see what happens?
I'd assume have friendlies bullets do nothing to a friendly craft, since in the heat of a 1v1 chase, seldom do you note other guys on or about your 6, also giving chase. Plus, we are dealing with an Internet based game we latency happens, so who ever was 200ft ahead of you could also wind up 200ft behind ya, etc etc.
HTC: Why not give it whirl?
;)
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Killshooter as it is now is a good thing, it prevents the need of having 3 countries at war, but cant win because they are too busy shooting the jerks on their own team down.
Perhaps itd be best if the killshooter did less damage, to prevent the advent of accidental killshooter deaths when someone cuts in front of your fire (not your fault!).
Say... make killshooter have the same effect as a c202 gun? This way only a long, steady stream of hits on a friendly plane would bring you down.
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Or how about killshooter off when your 500d or less to an enemy?
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Kill Shooter doesnt bother me. I also dont worry about stolen kills.
Here is My Solution.....
TURN OFF KILL CREDITS!
If nobody gets a host determined kill, there is no stolen kills. Also the Radio isnt so littered up with with huge amount of host generated Kill Messages.
Of course this would reck havock with the "Score potatos" Those that rely on there different score catagories to enjoy the game.
I say, Have Fun, Work with your Squadies, Test yourself in combat and enjoy AH. Dont worry about stolen kills and Scores.
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well
i just logged off in disgust. i think this is the first time that's ever happened.
an LA7 bounces me, rips off my right elevator, right cannon, tailwheel, aux tank, and one other piece on my zeke
somehow, i get him to overshoot and begin a lag pursuit. somehow i get behind him and saddle up with my one cannon
im lighting him up, feelin pretty good.
all of a sudden another plane cuts directly through my a/c and i shoot him. i explode.
didnt see who it was, but now I feel even moreso that my option above is needed.
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Moose,
I can agree with you here. In that situation Kill Shooter Sux.
This to me, is something differnt than worrying about kill credits.
It would take a ton of programing probably, but perhaps the first 2-3 seconds of friendly fire shouldnt register damage on your own A/C. Only sustained fire should.
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Whels,
on this matter i'm at odds with you. I'm for keeping killshooter on for the very reason that without it, I can garuntee there will be lame pilots who will change sides just to kill you after you have shot them down or they are point hogs and don't want someone else taking away their spot on the killboard.
I've died before when someone "appears" in front of me. I'm always looking around now before I go in to ensure no one else is engaging, and I still miss some. If I see a friendly on a nme, I'll watch to ensure they don't get in trouble. If more than one friendly, they usually have the situation under control. It gets hard to determine when it's one vs one though. You can't ask the friendly if he need help because they won't be able to respond in most cases. If it looks like the fight is turning against the friendly, I engage and will help. If I get the kill, i'll apologise, it's common courtesy. Sometimes they thank me, sometimes not, but there's one less nme we both have to worry about.
It gets down to a personal decision by the pilot and unfortunately some have different priorities. I cuss and moan, should hear me sometimes, sometimes everyone does :D
I get it out, then move on, but I remember names... ;)
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Stop and think about virtually half the engagements in the MA. How many cons are chasing one enemy? What prevents them from hitting the guy in front of them... or at least discourages it.
If you don't know what I mean... the next time you get sadled up on an enemy you've just damaged and who is trying to run... check your 6. Now imagine that those guys behind you can actually damage you. A few pings into you is a small price for them to pay. A few pings into themselves is another story.
Killshooter is not realistic, but it has a tendancy to promote more realistic fire control. Of course, its an impossible "the grass is always greener" argument. We could try no killshooter then spend the next year trying to come up with elaborate plans to prevent people from shooting down their countrymates even in spite of all the safeguards already in place.
AKDejaVu
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If there was no net lag I'd be all for Killshooter off AND Friendly collisions on, but as lag can be a real nut-sack knocker, it's probably best left as is.
I agree that checking your fire should be and was during the war very important.
I know if killshooter were off I'd hafta quit shooting over my squaddies heads on those long flights when I git bored.
I also seriously doubt I'd purposely shoot friendlies as I need every green con I can git to distract the enema and allow me to sneak in for a kill.
Although, there are a couple alligator mouthed, hummingbird assed, channel 1 abusing , buttwipes that deserve to be the target of a good dweeb hunt and having killshooter off would certainly make that much easier.
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I am 100% behind killshooter!! I see waaaay too often 3-5 friendlies chasing 1 con on the deck. In a chase like this in RL with all the shootin goin on, a friendly is bound to get hit. If a friendly is shot down it may as well be the shooter IMO.
I think many of us have at one point or another crossed another's line of fire, or had friendlies trying to shoot around us at that baddy, would you like to be shot down for a mistake?
Apologies Goth..
SKurj
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There is a real problem with killshooter and GVs. Friendly icons dissapear well inside the range of GVs weapons, even M16.
Some days ago I was deffending a base in M16 and saw (with max zoom) another M16 passing behind an hangar and stopping there, perfectly visible, but no icon so it is ENEMY. I aimed my guns and fired a long burst... A second after this I heard a lot of pings and my M16 exploded. The enemy was friendly.
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maybe we can just turn off killshooter for buffs.
lazs
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You want the ultimate in killshooter problems?
I dropped a bomb on a hanger from a buff from 10k. The second the bomb hit the hanger, someone happened to be strafing it as well. The bomb got the hanger and "him", meaning through the killshooter, it got me!
<S>IC
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Originally posted by iculus:
You want the ultimate in killshooter problems?
I dropped a bomb on a hanger from a buff from 10k. The second the bomb hit the hanger, someone happened to be strafing it as well. The bomb got the hanger and "him", meaning through the killshooter, it got me!
<S>IC
LOL!! Sorry that a funny one!
Glad you posted it, I got a kick out of the Irony.