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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Nefarious on January 09, 2020, 09:10:49 PM

Title: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Nefarious on January 09, 2020, 09:10:49 PM
Remember this?

(http://www.ahevents.net/images/stories/sops_images/Nefarious/MISSION1PARISAREAFLAK2.jpg)

It's back! I'm Running a bombers only Fortress Europe mission to Cologne, February 1st, 2020 at 10:00PM EST in SEA1. All are welcome to fly a B-17 through some of the thickest flak seen in AH. Come join us! Just to blow off the dust and let the bomber guys blow some stuff up!

(http://www.ahevents.net/images/stories/sops_images/Nefarious/FE12020.jpg)
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Trev95 on January 09, 2020, 09:15:55 PM
Sign me up.  :rock
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: AKKuya on January 09, 2020, 09:20:06 PM
Excellent!!!!

You know what I have planned for Feb 29th?  :devil
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Nefarious on January 29, 2020, 10:01:04 AM
We're headed back to Cologne with some changes:

https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,398885.0.html

The biggest change will be the launch rules.

In this setup, flight will be disabled at T+30. All aircraft will be enabled until T+30.

- We will also be testing a feature of the Staged Mission that will allow bomber pilots to take the place of AI bombers should they be killed in their original formation.

The following aircraft will be enabled:

USAAF -

B-17G
P-38J
P-47D-25

Luftwaffe -

Bf 109G-14
Fw 190A-8
Me 410

All the other changes are to the AI bombers and AI mission parameters.

- Bombers will be about 10mph faster.
- Bombers will now begin at 15K and climb to 22K
- Bomber gunners will now have random settings of gunner accuracy/lethality.
- Testing a feature of Text Alerts in the Text Buffer to alert Allied pilots on Bomber course changes, Bomb Run instructions.
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Trev95 on January 29, 2020, 11:05:43 AM
So are we (bombers) going to be broken into different flights or wings?  Or are we all just flying over Europe in a big metal ball of death?
Looking forward to my First Fortress Europe, its gunna be a blast.  I bet we will have some ridiculously crazy fights.  :airplane:

<S>FBTrev95
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: akbmzawy on January 29, 2020, 11:11:29 AM

It's back! I'm Running a bombers only Fortress Europe mission to Cologne, February 1st, 2020 at 10:00PM EST in SEA1. All are welcome to fly a B-17 through some of the thickest flak seen in AH. Come join us! Just to blow off the dust and let the bomber guys blow some stuff up!

I'm confused. you say bombers only but I see you are enabling fighters.
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Nefarious on January 29, 2020, 12:05:56 PM
I'm confused. you say bombers only but I see you are enabling fighters.

Unfortunately I can't go back and edit. Originally it was going to be bombers only, but since the addition of AI we will be adding fighters for everyone to participate.
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Nefarious on January 29, 2020, 12:06:50 PM
So are we (bombers) going to be broken into different flights or wings?  Or are we all just flying over Europe in a big metal ball of death?

Big metal ball o' death
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: akbmzawy on January 29, 2020, 05:35:01 PM
OK, Thanks. Not confused now.
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: svaalbar on January 30, 2020, 08:27:02 PM
Count me and my squadmate Hotstuff in!
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Chris79 on January 30, 2020, 09:23:18 PM
I’ll be running a g14 for it.
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Nefarious on February 01, 2020, 07:46:30 PM
Almost 1 hour till launch!
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Windycty on February 01, 2020, 08:32:20 PM
Going to log in, do we get to chose our bomb load and skins?
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Trev95 on February 01, 2020, 10:33:46 PM
I would say Fortress Europe was a huge success!  I have never seen so many bombers fly together.  We will see if I can get a video uploaded tomorrow of the mission, I know a few of us were recording.  :rock
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Arlo on February 01, 2020, 11:08:26 PM
Twas fun! Listened to big band music the whole way.  :aok :old:
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Nefarious on February 01, 2020, 11:45:05 PM
https://ahevents.net/index.php/event-logs

Logs up under Fortress Europe/AI TEST 2
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: FLS on February 02, 2020, 09:13:35 AM
The attack on the bomber stream was very tough and historical tactics, head on attack to the stream and attacks on lagging bombers worked best.

I landed my A8 with half a wing on a runway then slid off the side for a ditch. Fun flying.
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Nefarious on February 02, 2020, 09:24:13 AM
The attack on the bomber stream was very tough and historical tactics, head on attack to the stream and attacks on lagging bombers worked best.

I landed my A8 with half a wing on a runway then slid off the side for a ditch. Fun flying.

By my count we had about 91 B-17s. Luftwaffe managed to shoot down 40! Good show!
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: CptTrips on February 02, 2020, 11:50:40 AM
By my count we had about 91 B-17s. Luftwaffe managed to shoot down 40! Good show!

That was beautiful.  There was a little bit of warping with that many is such a tight group.  That might be the limit in any one group for performance.

I'd like to get hundreds.  :D  But we'd have to split them up into different packages to different targets and keep them about 8k apart so not so many position updates flooding the bandwidth.  So much we could experiment with in the future.  ;)


 :salute



Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Shuffler on February 02, 2020, 01:40:40 PM
The attack on the bomber stream was very tough and historical tactics, head on attack to the stream and attacks on lagging bombers worked best.

I landed my A8 with half a wing on a runway then slid off the side for a ditch. Fun flying.

Curious as I did not check the logs.... was it a 38 that took your wing ?
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Nefarious on February 02, 2020, 02:01:05 PM
That was beautiful.  There was a little bit of warping with that many is such a tight group.  That might be the limit in any one group for performance.

I'd like to get hundreds.  :D  But we'd have to split them up into different packages to different targets and keep them about 8k apart so not so many position updates flooding the bandwidth.  So much we could experiment with in the future.  ;)


 :salute

The only lag I witnessed was human formations, which have always been an issue. Some drones and pilots make very large jumps back and forth.

The AI bombers are solid for me.
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Arlo on February 02, 2020, 02:04:44 PM
The only lag I witnessed was human formations, which have always been an issue. Some drones and pilots make very large jumps back and forth.

The AI bombers are solid for me.

Same here. And it was only one player at a time, for the most part. Very stable.
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Arlo on February 02, 2020, 02:06:31 PM
Here's a few stills from the first 20 minutes or so of the practice:

(https://i.imgur.com/yj7NnO4.png)

Spawn - cockpit view

(https://i.imgur.com/0ynpo2r.png)

Spawn - external view

(https://i.imgur.com/HcmLlgv.png)

Turning to form up with AI

(https://i.imgur.com/W3X00xD.png)

Climbing to 22k

(https://i.imgur.com/ZKrqmg2.png)

AI formation

(https://i.imgur.com/ATsRvE9.png)

In the formation with AI

(https://i.imgur.com/Uf7mNBm.png)

Enemy close (about 20 minutes in)

(https://i.imgur.com/2q8T825.png)

190 slashes through and scores some

(https://i.imgur.com/4zfvVQV.png)

109 loses a wing - costs of both sides
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: CptTrips on February 02, 2020, 02:08:01 PM
Same here. And it was only one player at a time, for the most part. Very stable.

Ahh.  Interesting.  Now that I think about it, it was always a human formation I noticed.  Yeah, must be a drone thing.

Hmmmm. 



Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: CptTrips on February 02, 2020, 02:09:19 PM
Here's a few stills from the first 20 minutes or so of the practice:

Awesome Sauce.

Now if we only had contrails.  ;)
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: FLS on February 02, 2020, 02:19:03 PM
Curious as I did not check the logs.... was it a 38 that took your wing ?

Yes. I have film but haven't looked at it to see the pilot. I pulled too hard and snap rolled in place, lost the wing tip and dove away. I basically crashed on the runway but slid off before I stopped.
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Shuffler on February 02, 2020, 03:20:05 PM
Yes. I have film but haven't looked at it to see the pilot. I pulled too hard and snap rolled in place, lost the wing tip and dove away. I basically crashed on the runway but slid off before I stopped.

I believe I may have been the only 38 there.  :devil
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Nefarious on February 02, 2020, 04:43:53 PM
I believe I may have been the only 38 there.  :devil

Trev95 was in a 38.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eZVE_2yx3bA&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Shuffler on February 02, 2020, 08:16:26 PM
Trev95 was in a 38.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eZVE_2yx3bA&feature=youtu.be

Yes I was escorting Trev and rat on a buff run to strats this evening and he said he was in a 38 too. Missed that last night.
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Alpo on February 03, 2020, 09:20:01 AM

Now if we only had contrails.  ;)

and I'd like the drones to have the same skin in films    :(
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Arlo on February 03, 2020, 10:49:36 AM
and I'd like the drones to have the same skin in films    :(

If everyone flew default skin then they would.
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Nefarious on February 03, 2020, 09:47:18 PM
Give us some input!

https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,399098.0.html
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Alpo on February 04, 2020, 01:09:47 PM
As opposed to the first run, once the escort was stripped, the bombers were more of a challenge to deal with.  I'm not sure it that was the setting of the AI guns being up a little or the fact that there were a lot more player formations tucked in with the AI.

The fact that the bombers were able to drop on target and return home says a lot IMHO, even with the Axis knowing target and route.
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: CptTrips on February 04, 2020, 01:18:02 PM
As opposed to the first run, once the escort was stripped, the bombers were more of a challenge to deal with.  I'm not sure it that was the setting of the AI guns being up a little or the fact that there were a lot more player formations tucked in with the AI.

The fact that the bombers were able to drop on target and return home says a lot IMHO, even with the Axis knowing target and route.


I suspect the rest would not have made it back to England if launches had not been cut off 20 min before we reached drop.

There was only 1 fighter left to harass us on the hours flight home. 

Certainly higher than historical losses.  But fun anyway.   :D

Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Nefarious on February 04, 2020, 04:14:12 PM
I suspect the rest would not have made it back to England if launches had not been cut off 20 min before we reached drop.

I agree. Had the A61 Spawn been open till T+60 like Frame 1 we would've subject to Luftwaffe attacks all the way up to target and probably would have suffered way more losses.

40 bombers out of 91 would be catastrophic losses for a Bomb Squadron/Group, I think it worked in Frame 2. But I don't think we'll always have the same results.
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Trev95 on February 04, 2020, 05:41:33 PM
I agree. Had the A61 Spawn been open till T+60 like Frame 1 we would've subject to Luftwaffe attacks all the way up to target and probably would have suffered way more losses.

40 bombers out of 91 would be catastrophic losses for a Bomb Squadron/Group, I think it worked in Frame 2. But I don't think we'll always have the same results.

If we had a few more Axis pilots the bombers would have been decimated.  If the Axis broke into small packs and launched attacks on the buffs, losses would have been catastrophic.  Maybe bring some loose structure to Fortress Europe like we see in FSO?
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Chris79 on February 04, 2020, 09:26:36 PM
Well it was fun. May I suggest adding a more vertical component to buff formations.
Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: CptTrips on February 04, 2020, 10:29:19 PM
Well it was fun. May I suggest adding a more vertical component to buff formations.

The AI formation was roughly based on this diagram:

(https://media.defense.gov/2018/Apr/22/2001906805/780/780/0/180422-F-FN604-020.JPG)

Our formation actually has more vertical separation than that.  ~880' vs 600'.

We are also wider.  ~2040' vs 1560'. 

Maybe the extra width gave the impression of less vertical separation. 

Of course humans kinda form up however they want.  I can't code that.  ;)

Title: Re: It's back... Fortress Europe Returns February 1st, 2020
Post by: Shuffler on February 05, 2020, 12:25:30 AM
The AI formation was roughly based on this diagram:

(https://media.defense.gov/2018/Apr/22/2001906805/780/780/0/180422-F-FN604-020.JPG)

Our formation actually has more vertical separation than that.  ~880' vs 600'.

We are also wider.  ~2040' vs 1560'. 

Maybe the extra width gave the impression of less vertical separation. 

Of course humans kinda form up however they want.  I can't code that.  ;)

It sure looked good. Nice work.