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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Puma44 on March 15, 2020, 12:01:39 AM

Title: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Puma44 on March 15, 2020, 12:01:39 AM
So, as a newly minted First Lieutenant and recently qualified T-33 Instructor Pilot at my first operational assignment I got some of the choice scheduling assignments.  After two weeks out of town on leave, I was scheduled to fly the first morning go on Monday morning, with the Wing Commander, a full bird colonel, on a proficiency training sortie.  Monday morning flights always seemed more difficult because the brain cells were still in weekend relax mode and mine was in leave mode on top of that. On top of that, I’m flying with the Wing King, who was actually a pretty cool, down to earth guy.  But, hey, no stress, just don’t screw this up sport!

The Colonel shows up at our squadron early, checks in with the squadron brass, and comes down to the ops desk where I’m waiting with my Monday morning apprehension.  We do the meet and greet and proceed to our briefing room that I’ve already prepped with the mission profile on the blackboards.  Normal normal briefing and we go to life support, don our flight gear, and head out to our “Stretch F-80”, officially know as the Lockheed T-33.

At the jet, we meet and greet the crew chief, line chief, etc, etc, etc.  Hey!  It’s the wing king!  Lots of attention to him.  I’m pretty much invisible until the crew chief hands the boss the 781(aircraft logbook, maintenance record).  We both review the 781 to verify it’s airworthy and good to go.  With that complete, we do a preflight inspection inside and out, and strap on the jet.  The Boss is sitting in the front and I’m in the “trunk”.  We complete our individual checks, he turns the electrical power on, gives the Crew Chief the engine start signal, and begins the start sequence.  The J-33 centrifugal flow engine spins up and lights off normally.  After start checks complete and he calls for taxi.

At the active runway, we do the normal before takeoff checks and call ready for takeoff.  Tower clears us for takeoff on runway 35.  The Boss adds power and lines us up on the center line of the runway.  With everything looking good, he releases the brakes, slowly pushes the throttle to the forward stop, and the engine slowly spins up to full takeoff power.  We start rolling down the runway (actually an uphill grade on this runway) and accelerate to takeoff speed.  He starts the rotation to the takeoff attitude and the T Bird lifts off the runway.  With the climb established, the Boss raises the landing gear and flaps.  Everything comes up normally and then, the engine overheat light starts flashing and then goes steady.  He’s still climbing on runway heading.  The flashing and then steady overheat light was quite concerning and demanded immediate action; a turn to downwind and a modified SFO (Simulated Flame Out) pattern in the event this went completely south and required an engine shutdown per the Emergency Checklist BOLD FACE procedure. 

Over the intercom I said “I’ve got the aircraft”. He replied “You’ve got the aircraft”. Transfer control or the aircraft complete and I started an aggressive left climbing turn while declaring and emergency with tower.  I completed the Engine Overheat Bold Face Procedure which included a step to Reduce Power.  When this happened, the Overheat Light extinguished.  Flying the jet from the rear seat, I completed the modified Flame Out pattern, lowered the gear and flaps, and landed with fire trucks following us down the runway.  The crash recovery crews checked us over after we cleared the runway and confirmed there were no visible signs of smoke or fire.  We shutdown, wrote the issue up in the 781, and handed the jet over to the maintenance crews.

As we made our way back to the squadron, my adrenaline rush started diminishing and I began wondering if I had just pissed off the Wing Commander by the way I handled the emergency.  At the squadron it was time for the debrief.  By now, I have second guessed my decision multiple times and am convinced my career has just flamed out.  We went back to our briefing room and shut the door.  To this day I remember the first words out of his mouth.  “THAT’S exactly what I was talking about in the aircrew meeting last week!”  Now I know I’ve really screwed the pooch.  My reply, “Sir?”  He asked if I was at the meeting.  “No sir.  I’ve been on two weeks leave.  This is my first day back.”  He has this incredulous look and his face and begins to explain that in response to several near bad incidents in various wing aircraft, he issued a “get your act together” motivational speech to the pilots.  Of note, was to the Instructor Pilots (IP) when flying with attached pilots, i.e. the Wing Commander, Wing Staff, and ADC (Aerospace Defense Command) staff pilots.  These attached pilots flew infrequently and although highly experienced, were highly unproficient.   The Boss wanted his IPs to stay on top of these attached guys when flying with them. He said to never hesitate taking control of the aircraft and prevent something bad from happening, because we had his full support in doing so.

So, I had unwittingly stepped into an unintentional test of the Wing Commander’s directive on the first go of Monday morning flying after two weeks of leave.  He was quite pleased with our very short flight.  So much so that he enthusiastically supported my early selection for upgrade to the F-106 Delta Dart a few months later.
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Arlo on March 15, 2020, 08:43:01 AM
You put me right in your seat, the way you write these. Your posts need to become a book.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: SNO on March 15, 2020, 09:10:22 AM
You put me right in your seat, the way you write these. Your posts need to become a book.  :cheers:

+1 on this. Good stuff Puma   :cheers:
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Puma44 on March 15, 2020, 09:23:28 AM
You put me right in your seat, the way you write these. Your posts need to become a book.  :cheers:

Thanks Arlo!  I’ve considered it.  I’m not sure how much of a book it would be but, it’s not out of the realm of possibilities.

+1 on this. Good stuff Puma   :cheers:

Thanks SNO!  Glad you guys enjoy the stories of my out of the ordinary events.  :aok
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Maverick on March 15, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
I'm in full agreement with Arlo. These blurbs are great stuff and I seriously recommend you look at doing your memoirs. It may not seem like enough at first but I'd bet once you fleshed it out with an experienced ghost writer it would surprise you.
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Meatwad on March 15, 2020, 10:38:12 AM
We have a T-33 on display at the park here  :aok
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Puma44 on March 15, 2020, 11:03:04 AM
We have a T-33 on display at the park here  :aok

Do you happen to know the tail number?

Everything I flew on active duty is sitting on a pole somewhere or in the boneyard.  Well, except my assigned F-106, tail number “026”.  It was converted to a drone, flown out of Tyndall AFB, and shot down over the Gulf of Mexico many years ago.  😢

(https://i.postimg.cc/g2S3884p/B96-DCABB-E71-B-48-B1-B36-A-7289781-D3-A66.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Meatwad on March 15, 2020, 03:50:50 PM
Not my picture but found on an archive page

(http://www.demobbed.org.uk/images/5/52-9651.jpg?d=150320215003)
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Arlo on March 15, 2020, 04:00:34 PM
Had to resize. I wanted to see it all without having to scroll back and forth:

(https://i.imgur.com/9P9SGw8.png)
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Puma44 on March 15, 2020, 04:26:16 PM
Interesting.  It has an ADC emblem on the tail.  When I get home later in the month, I’ll check my logbook and if it’s one I’ve flown.  Thanks for posting!  :aok

When I flew them, none had the TR plus tail number on the fuselage.
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Devil 505 on March 15, 2020, 05:29:54 PM
Another great story Puma.

 :salute
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Puma44 on March 15, 2020, 07:29:27 PM
Another great story Puma.

 :salute

Thanks Devil!
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Busher on March 15, 2020, 09:52:02 PM
Love your stories and I am glad your wing boss respected the pilots in-the-know and also knew his limits.

Had he been a p***k, I could see you in a C-119 out of Thule.
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Shuffler on March 15, 2020, 10:07:32 PM
If you put all this in a book..... I would sure be on the.purchase list.
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Puma44 on March 16, 2020, 02:07:17 PM
For some backstory on the engine overheat light:

There was a several week period with numerous engine overheat, fire, or both at about the same time during takeoff; during or immediately after gear and flap retraction.  These things were occurring on almost a daily basis with different jets.  After a thorough maintenance investigation, it was discovered that a new subcontractor was refurbishing T-33 tail pipes.  The tailpipes had welded joints that were surrounded by the engine overheat and fire loops.  All of our incidents occurred with tailpipes welded by this same subcontractor.  The welds were failing under high pressure and heat coincidental with the time after takeoff about gear and flap retraction.  I had experienced several of these before going on leave.  So, I was more or less spring loaded and thus had a shorter analysis/reaction time than the boss.  None of us squadron guys wanted to be the first to eject out of a burning T-Bird on the downwind.

Better to be lucky than good any day.  :D

(https://i.postimg.cc/MptCfVmL/591-B15-A9-3-C88-4-D3-E-B152-FCED70194-F32.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The rest of the tailpipe attached to this stub and extended slight of the rear fuselage.
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Busher on March 16, 2020, 03:09:08 PM
For some backstory on the engine overheat light:

There was a several week period with numerous engine overheat, fire, or both at about the same time during takeoff; during or immediately after gear and flap retraction.  These things were occurring on almost a daily basis with different jets.  After a thorough maintenance investigation, it was discovered that a new subcontractor was refurbishing T-33 tail pipes.  The tailpipes had welded joints that were surrounded by the engine overheat and fire loops.  All of our incidents occurred with tailpipes welded by this same subcontractor.  The welds were failing under high pressure and heat coincidental with the time after takeoff about gear and flap retraction.  I had experienced several of these before going on leave.  So, I was more or less spring loaded and thus had a shorter analysis/reaction time than the boss.  None of us squadron guys wanted to be the first to eject out of a burning T-Bird on the downwind.

Better to be lucky than good any day.  :D

(https://i.postimg.cc/MptCfVmL/591-B15-A9-3-C88-4-D3-E-B152-FCED70194-F32.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The rest of the tailpipe attached to this stub and extended slight of the rear fuselage.

You may have heard from the guys in Transport about the same thing happening on the Allison 501-D13 on the Herc. The tailpipe gap would open and let enough engine exhaust temp to escape and that would set off the loop detectors near the aft part of the engine.
I never flew a Herc but I did fly the same engine on the Convair 580 for 6 years. 4 engine shutdowns due to Zone 3 fire warnings. (but I had another engine to save me) :)
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Puma44 on March 16, 2020, 03:31:53 PM
You may have heard from the guys in Transport about the same thing happening on the Allison 501-D13 on the Herc. The tailpipe gap would open and let enough engine exhaust temp to escape and that would set off the loop detectors near the aft part of the engine.
I never flew a Herc but I did fly the same engine on the Convair 580 for 6 years. 4 engine shutdowns due to Zone 3 fire warnings. (but I had another engine to save me) :)

Yeah, most definitely nice to have spare engine, or two, or three.
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Arlo on March 16, 2020, 03:33:46 PM
Yeah, most definitely nice to have spare engine, or two, or three.

Or 9?

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ce/c3/dd/cec3dd59cc99d5e2521137ec88b10b34.jpg)
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Mister Fork on March 16, 2020, 03:39:38 PM
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r50406/emoticons/default_popcornsmilie.gif)
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: morfiend on March 16, 2020, 03:49:09 PM
We have a T-33 on display at the park here  :aok


  We have a flight worth one where I live,IIRC you can even book a flight in the beast,but it's painted red so no way I'm going up in it.


    :salute
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Puma44 on March 17, 2020, 07:44:39 AM

  We have a flight worth one where I live,IIRC you can even book a flight in the beast,but it's painted red so no way I'm going up in it.


    :salute

Red!  Just go do it.  It’s a fun jet to fly.  I promise you won’t regret the experience.
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: morfiend on March 17, 2020, 12:16:38 PM
I'd like to despite it being red but it's not in the cards atm. Never mind this little virus thing I've been under the weather this past year or so,chemo is no fun and I'd puke for sure. Sometimes I think the cure is worse than the disease!

  I  did get to see her fly over my house last summer,there was one of those CF18's in tow  and another flight had it up with this lumbering P51 which was a pretty cool sight. The flight path from the airshow puts them over my house so I sit out with a coffee and watch them.

  But it's still painted red,something just wrong with that! :rofl :rofl :devil

  The rides arent very costly,well a few hundred and I was wanting to go up in a harvard but it's a hour and 1/2 drive to go up in the harvard were the T33/P80 is in my backyard. All that said I have to be careful with my pennies,the market has cost me more than I'd like to say.


    :salute
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Puma44 on March 18, 2020, 11:20:00 AM
Understand, my friend. First things first.  If and when you are able, go for it.  You won’t be disappointed.   :salute
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: morfiend on March 18, 2020, 01:16:38 PM
A couple of years ago I talked at length with the museum director,he books the flights and runs the day to day stuff at this little museum near the local airport.

 Diamond A/C have a small factory nearby also so there's plenty of ground support for the T33.

  I made the mistake of calling it a glorified P80...... :rofl And was promptly down dressed by the director and told of all the difference,etc. It was a few years ago and my memory is fuzzy.

  Still it's painted red!  Now if it was yellow,I'd have already been up for a ride! :x



    :salute
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Arlo on March 18, 2020, 01:21:18 PM
This it?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/29uulSbdNUVdm9R2VwlD-DpNEiJ0fg2dobXIsZiOgGd2A6FOYbsuI8mDPUaShn-HRTQFbftXqBtofmf3PA4ZlshJvl2qpH6u1uWBO7Y6oRQ4HzxAvRlryG7l8zy5achEThETjtjwtfF1kA5f2rvA6JH00ArXegOGhAAh-tI)
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Gman on March 18, 2020, 03:26:49 PM
I agree with Arlo as well Puma, and as I also have repeatedly said in your "story" threads, you should definitely write a book.  It's not just the subject matter - subject matter which all aviation and history buffs love to devour - it's mostly the way you tell your stories.  You have an incredible ability to put the reader "right there".

My best friend wrote a popular book about his experience in the recent mid-east wars, "The Taliban Don't Wave", by Capt. Rob Semrau.  When I began writing, he helped me a great deal, and also offered the services of his agent and publisher, both from HarperCollins.

If you ever do seriously decide to write a book(s) - and I hope you someday do - feel free to PM me for my contact #s, as I'd love to help put you in contact with one of the world's largest publishers, as I know they would gobble up what you've written on this forum alone.   

Over the years I've had a file created of interesting posts from people with creds on this forum, in particular you Puma, Eagl, and Mace, so I already have a very thorough collection of your writing and stories here.
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: bustr on March 18, 2020, 04:23:08 PM
Anyone know what hose wingtip pods are for in Arlo's B36 photo?
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Arlo on March 18, 2020, 04:46:20 PM
Anyone know what hose wingtip pods are for in Arlo's B36 photo?

F-84 'parasite fighter' project.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Boeing_B-29_TomTom.jpg)
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Rocco on March 18, 2020, 04:52:57 PM
Anyone know what hose wingtip pods are for in Arlo's B36 photo?

Fuel tanks I believe. Not dt's but just extra fuel.
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Arlo on March 18, 2020, 04:57:10 PM
" Another scheme, known as "Tip-Tow" or "MX-108A", involved a B-29 modified to allow F-84s to hook up wingtip-to-wingtip using a clamping module on each of the B-29's wingtips. It was a follow-up to a postwar experiment involving a wingtip coupling between a Douglas C-47 Dakota / DC-3 and a Culver PQ-14 -- a light single-seat sport aircraft, used as a target drone during the conflict. Tip-Tow tests were conducted from 1950; they came to an abrupt end on 24 April 1953, when an F-84 flipped over and tore off the wing of the B-29, with all crew killed in the disaster. The problem was that there were vortices around the B-29's wingtips that made the hookups very troublesome."

"During 1955, the same concept was tested with an RB-36F -- one earlier used for FICON tests -- and two RF-84Fs under the obscure program name of "Tom-Tom". Tom-Tom ran into the same problems as Tip-Tow, with an RF-84F actually torn away from the wingtip of the RB-36F on 23 September 1956. Nobody was hurt, but the scheme was obviously dodgy and dangerous, and so it was promptly abandoned. Incidentally, well-known Air Force test pilot Clarence "Bud" Anderson flew in the FICON, Tip-Tow, and Tom-Tom trials, discussing them later in his memoirs."

http://www.airvectors.net/avparsit.html
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: streakeagle on March 18, 2020, 07:59:52 PM
Puma, your stories are always entertaining and educational. Keep up the good work doing both. I love it when people bring history to life this way, especially military aviation.
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Puma44 on March 18, 2020, 08:00:22 PM
I made the mistake of calling it a glorified P80...... :rofl And was promptly down dressed by the director and told of all the difference,etc. It was a few years ago and my memory is fuzzy.

   :salute


Not to worry.  Many of us who flew the T Bird frequently referred to it as the “Stretch F-80” because of how it originated.  The T-33 pictured below in the park still has gun ports in the nose.  There was a time the AT-33 existed as ground attack trainer.  So, in a way it was kind of a Frankenstein.  Regardless, a fun jet to fly all over the US and Canada.  It taught this young Lieutenant volumes about how to fly in the clearest of blue skies and the worst imaginable weather in the dark of night.
Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Puma44 on March 18, 2020, 08:05:28 PM
I agree with Arlo as well Puma, and as I also have repeatedly said in your "story" threads, you should definitely write a book.  It's not just the subject matter - subject matter which all aviation and history buffs love to devour - it's mostly the way you tell your stories.  You have an incredible ability to put the reader "right there".

My best friend wrote a popular book about his experience in the recent mid-east wars, "The Taliban Don't Wave", by Capt. Rob Semrau.  When I began writing, he helped me a great deal, and also offered the services of his agent and publisher, both from HarperCollins.

If you ever do seriously decide to write a book(s) - and I hope you someday do - feel free to PM me for my contact #s, as I'd love to help put you in contact with one of the world's largest publishers, as I know they would gobble up what you've written on this forum alone.   

Over the years I've had a file created of interesting posts from people with creds on this forum, in particular you Puma, Eagl, and Mace, so I already have a very thorough collection of your writing and stories here.


Puma, your stories are always entertaining and educational. Keep up the good work doing both. I love it when people bring history to life this way, especially military aviation.

Thanks Gents!  I appreciate the complements and encouragement.  Putting a book together has the potential for being a good retirement project.

Title: Re: Flying with the Wing King
Post by: Puma44 on March 18, 2020, 08:07:30 PM
Did someone say tip tanks?  That reminds me of another interesting T-33 FCF story.   :bolt:

...and then another with a headquarters guy on a practice instrument check.