General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: oboe on July 12, 2020, 10:16:06 PM
Title: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: oboe on July 12, 2020, 10:16:06 PM
WIP, but it feels close. This is an update to one of my first skins in AH, from February 2005. Still working on the yellow, that's a tricky color in AH. I started with ANA 505 Lemon Yellow and desaturated in 33%; 50% was too much. Think I need to mess with the opacity as well.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=400648.0;attach=32810) This is a restored warbird - not sure if it still flies under this scheme; I think the picture is pretty old.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Shuffler on July 12, 2020, 10:20:28 PM
I think it looks great.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Hajo on July 12, 2020, 10:30:21 PM
Nice Oboe!
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Nefarious on July 12, 2020, 10:33:02 PM
Amazing bare metal. Finest in the game. <S>
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: perdue3 on July 12, 2020, 10:56:20 PM
Fantastic.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Morpheus on July 12, 2020, 11:02:20 PM
Fantastic work and to me its simply amazing at what you dudes are producing and you do it all for the love of this game.
Thanks for making the game look so real... :cheers:
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Vraciu on July 12, 2020, 11:36:11 PM
Coming along really well, sir. That rivet detail is mind-boggling, the metal tone is first-rate, and the skin waves are beautifully done.
Nice work.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: lyric1 on July 12, 2020, 11:37:28 PM
:aok
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: FTJR on July 13, 2020, 12:14:53 AM
This is a restored warbird - not sure if it still flies under this scheme; I think the picture is pretty old.
Had to do some digging to make sure my memory was correct, but I believe this was the one The Fighter Collection had. It was "Buggy" in metal for a bit then repainted OD and renamed "California Cutie" in which guise it was destroyed in a well-known crash.
https://youtu.be/AG4mCvUfpsk
At one point Lefty Gardner owned it (in non-flying condition) after rescuing it from vandals before selling it. I am pretty sure this is the one I climbed all over as a pre-school kid when my dad took me to see it. It was not much more than a hulk then.
Small world.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: oboe on July 13, 2020, 01:42:40 AM
Thanks, fellas. Appreciate the kind words. I've had a bare metal P-38 in my work pile since AH3 came out, but got stuck and dropped working on it and moved on to P-51s. When I came back after a hiatus I was determined to figure it out best I could and get it done.
I think I need to reduce the dark panel lines in my Specular file, too - I maxed them dark, but it looks like in glare the panel lines stick out too much. Also, the yellow nacelle trim extends back a bit too far.
Thanks for posting those photos, Lyric. Is that your autographed photo? I did not know the name of the plane was highlighted with yellow - I wonder if that restoration is correct - in the B&W photos, the lettering highlight appears to be a different shade from the nacelle/spinner trim color. But I assume yellow is correct.
Ilfrey was quite a character - does anyone know how his wingtip was damaged? My guess is collision with another aircraft, or maybe a tree or pole on a strafing run that got too low?
I think I read a story about him becoming lost during a flight from England to North Africa in 1943?, and landing in Lisbon, Portugal. He was going to be interred for the duration since Portugal was neutral. A interested crowd gathered around his P-38 and while he was giving them a demonstration of the engine startup procedure, he gunned the engines and blew them off the wing and proceeded to take off and finish his flight to North Africa. That story is probably straight out of a Martin Caidin book - it sounds like something he'd write.
EDIT: Very interesting, Vraciu. I have seen that footage before. Terrible about the crash. I envy you being able to climb all over a P-38 as a kid. When I was a young adult in MN, there was a great air museum called "Planes of Fame" at a local airport. They had a '38 called "Joltin' Josie" but I never did see it fly at any of their air shows. I finally saw a P-38 fly a couple of years ago in Colorado Springs when I went to see White 33's first flight with Steve Hinton at the controls.
Cool story about the Lisbon getaway. Thanks for confirming.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Vraciu on July 13, 2020, 01:46:07 AM
I have his autobiography and it's pretty much how he told it. Knocked the guy right off the wing. Zoom!
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Greebo on July 13, 2020, 01:53:06 AM
Beautifully done Oboe, really nice skin.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: oboe on July 13, 2020, 02:38:28 AM
Thank you, Greebo. I can finish it up and submit tomorrow. Is it too late to make the next skin batch release? I had intended it to be my first submission of the subsequent batch, but will try to get it done if I can make it into this batch...
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: LCADolby on July 13, 2020, 02:54:03 AM
Ominous seeing Big Beautiful Doll in the foreground of the crash footage.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Vraciu on July 13, 2020, 02:58:16 AM
Yeah. Believe it or not there were two in that paint job. Both crashed. One was salvageable the other not, sadly, as you know.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Vraciu on July 13, 2020, 03:01:13 AM
Oboe, I would darken the insides of the chin scoops. The game doesn't quite pull it off on its own. Needs a tiny bit of help, especially with lighter colors. :salute
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Devil 505 on July 13, 2020, 07:34:18 AM
Excellent job, Oboe.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: oboe on July 13, 2020, 08:28:43 AM
Oboe, I would darken the insides of the chin scoops. The game doesn't quite pull it off on its own. Needs a tiny bit of help, especially with lighter colors. :salute
Thanks, Vraciu - I have darkened and faded the yellow to dark grey going from front to back on that part of the diffuse map. I'll double-check and make sure its noticeable. You can actually see the RL effect looking in the intake in the color autographed photo with Ilfrey standing in front of the restored aircraft.
I watched that video again and its still disturbing and heartbreaking seeing that crash.
I just noticed from the B&W closeup of Jack in the cockpit, there is no red painted box with "NO STEP" inside on the inner wing fillet - its just the text, I assume printed in red. It doesn't look like that red box is painted on the top portion of the sliding window frame, either. Maybe on bare aluminum aircraft, they just used red text rather than white surrounded by a red box?
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Vraciu on July 13, 2020, 09:09:56 AM
Thanks, Vraciu - I have darkened and faded the yellow to dark grey going from front to back on that part of the diffuse map. I'll double-check and make sure its noticeable. You can actually see the RL effect looking in the intake in the color autographed photo with Ilfrey standing in front of the restored aircraft.
I watched that video again and its still disturbing and heartbreaking seeing that crash.
I just noticed from the B&W closeup of Jack in the cockpit, there is no red painted box with "NO STEP" inside on the inner wing fillet - its just the text, I assume printed in red. It doesn't look like that red box is painted on the top portion of the sliding window frame, either. Maybe on bare aluminum aircraft, they just used red text rather than white surrounded by a red box?
I know that CURLY SIX has the NO STEP stencil on the window frame in BLACK with letters-only. I think this is something that evolved over time. I will look at the book I have by Ilfrey unless Lyric beats me to it.
Edit In: Yeah, that crash is sickening. I wonder if he had a control jam or something. He got that sucker rolling and never came out of it.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: lyric1 on July 13, 2020, 09:28:37 AM
Thanks, fellas. Appreciate the kind words. I've had a bare metal P-38 in my work pile since AH3 came out, but got stuck and dropped working on it and moved on to P-51s. When I came back after a hiatus I was determined to figure it out best I could and get it done.
I think I need to reduce the dark panel lines in my Specular file, too - I maxed them dark, but it looks like in glare the panel lines stick out too much. Also, the yellow nacelle trim extends back a bit too far.
Thanks for posting those photos, Lyric. Is that your autographed photo? I did not know the name of the plane was highlighted with yellow - I wonder if that restoration is correct - in the B&W photos, the lettering highlight appears to be a different shade from the nacelle/spinner trim color. But I assume yellow is correct.
Ilfrey was quite a character - does anyone know how his wingtip was damaged? My guess is collision with another aircraft, or maybe a tree or pole on a strafing run that got too low?
I think I read a story about him becoming lost during a flight from England to North Africa in 1943?, and landing in Lisbon, Portugal. He was going to be interred for the duration since Portugal was neutral. A interested crowd gathered around his P-38 and while he was giving them a demonstration of the engine startup procedure, he gunned the engines and blew them off the wing and proceeded to take off and finish his flight to North Africa. That story is probably straight out of a Martin Caidin book - it sounds like something he'd write.
EDIT: Very interesting, Vraciu. I have seen that footage before. Terrible about the crash. I envy you being able to climb all over a P-38 as a kid. When I was a young adult in MN, there was a great air museum called "Planes of Fame" at a local airport. They had a '38 called "Joltin' Josie" but I never did see it fly at any of their air shows. I finally saw a P-38 fly a couple of years ago in Colorado Springs when I went to see White 33's first flight with Steve Hinton at the controls.
Cool story about the Lisbon getaway. Thanks for confirming.
He had a mid air collision with a 109. The signed photo was online not mine.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Vraciu on July 13, 2020, 10:09:36 AM
I just noticed from the B&W closeup of Jack in the cockpit, there is no red painted box with "NO STEP" inside on the inner wing fillet - its just the text, I assume printed in red. It doesn't look like that red box is painted on the top portion of the sliding window frame, either. Maybe on bare aluminum aircraft, they just used red text rather than white surrounded by a red box?
Okay, so I just dug through my copy of Ilfrey's book and I don't find anything enlightening beyond what Lyric has already provided. I am thinking that the NO STEP stencil is absent from the side window frame. Another of the group's P-38s is shown in the book and appears to lack it as well.
I don't think this was a hard and fast thing. I'm thinking it evolved over time. The other thing being that maybe Ilfrey's Lightning was originally OD and then was stripped of paint. If that is the case then they didn't bother to repaint the NO STEP, perhaps. (???)
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: oboe on July 13, 2020, 10:15:18 AM
Thanks for checking that, V. I found one other image that seems to corroborate the lack of the red box-white lettering, and instead just red lettering. The profile of the fuselage at the bottom of the image below:
I'll redo that as I complete my final tweaking today.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Vraciu on July 13, 2020, 10:34:37 AM
Yeah, it's either letters-only hidden by his elbow or it's not there at all.
This will make you laugh: the profile in his book has the red box. :rofl
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: oboe on July 13, 2020, 10:52:52 AM
Arrrgh! :headscratch:
Have to go with photo evidence I think. Once I make the change, I can vary which scheme I use depending on the skin, to add some variety in my skins.
I had a theory that the red boxed white lettering was used on olive drab / green painted aircraft, since plain black or red lettering alone wouldn't be as visible. As production ramped up in '44 and planes were no longer being painted green, it was may have been an acceptable time-saver to just use a red stencil for the lettering...
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Vraciu on July 13, 2020, 10:55:06 AM
Have to go with photo evidence I think. Once I make the change, I can vary which scheme I use depending on the skin, to add some variety in my skins.
I had a theory that the red boxed white lettering was used on olive drab / green painted aircraft, since plain black or red lettering alone wouldn't be as visible. As production ramped up in '44 and planes were no longer being painted green, it was may have been an acceptable time-saver to just use a red stencil for the lettering...
You might be right. I assumed this was black but it may very well be red.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: oboe on July 14, 2020, 09:12:29 PM
Done, ready for submission.
P-38J-15 43-28431 "Happy Jack's Go Buggy", Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG/79thFS Kingscliffe, May 1944
From "P-38 Lightning Aces of the ETO/MTO" by John Stanaway, Osprey Publishing:
Although a brilliant pilot, Jack Ilfrey also had a reputation for recklessness both on the ground and in the air. Despite a spell in America after the completion of his first tour in May 1943, his "history" followed him from the MTO to the ETO when he started his second tour in England with the 79th Fighter Squadron, 20th Fighter Group in April 1944. Ilfrey tried to live up to his colorful reputation as often as possible, finding his various escapades (and subsequent punishments) the best release from the tension of daily air combat. His two aerial victories with the 79th FS came while flying this J-15 on 24 May 1944 during a bomber escort to Berlin. Ilfrey climbed into the Bf109 top cover and shot one down at 30,000 ft before inadvertently ramming a second, losing about four feet of wing and sending the German fighter down in flames. Although he survived this mission, Ilfrey went down in this same fighter on 13 Jun 1944 when he was hit by fire during a strafing mission on the airfield at Angers, France. He managed to evade capture and returned to his squadron at Kingscliffe, where he served first as Operations Officer, then CO from 27 September to 9 December 1944.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2020, 09:33:18 PM
Looks really nice. The intake shading was just the touch it needed. Very well done. :cheers:
Did you use Normal Mapping for any of the waves or rivet dimples?
The one thing I noticed is that to get that anti-glare panel to look right you have to angle it down starting about 2/3 of the way forward. I don't know if you have time to try that, but it can take that bend out of it. I experimented with it for awhile and Greebo also sent me one of his Diffuses to study how to tame it. Not a perfect solution but worth a try.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2020, 09:39:59 PM
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Devil 505 on July 14, 2020, 09:44:05 PM
Amazing
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: oboe on July 14, 2020, 09:47:54 PM
Thanks! I think I'll try that with the anti-glare - I was just using the art from the original submission so many years ago, was really concentrating on trying to get the metal to look right; went down and back lots of dead ends. Oddly, it wasn't until I activated the dirt/grime, shadow, glare, and panel shading layers that it just really came to life. It made a big difference in the look of the metal.
I went with just plain red stencil lettering for the canopy frame "NO STEP", but was force to leave it off the fillet as the scale is different and I couldn't get the crisp lettering I needed there.
I used the Normal map in combination with 'baked-in' effects for the panel section shading. The Normal map doesn't handle it really well, leaves blotchy marks at certain sun angles, but I left it in anyway. I also found a way in Photoshop to give the metal a slight bluish tint, which seems to help a lot with some of the surfaces. I left the rivets off the Normal map, it just can't handle those small details. I think I left the cowl screw depressions there though. Weird how you need to invert the color for things if they are on the booms depicted upside down in the diffuse map - I never would've figured that out and owe that all to Greebo and his build log. <S>
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2020, 10:03:51 PM
Thanks! I think I'll try that with the anti-glare - I was just using the art from the original submission so many years ago, was really concentrating on trying to get the metal to look right; went down and back lots of dead ends. Oddly, it wasn't until I activated the dirt/grime, shadow, glare, and panel shading layers that it just really came to life. It made a big difference in the look of the metal.
Yeah, I didn't pay it any mind until someone pointed it out to me. I thought it was just the way it had to be until I saw Greebo make his look straight. Stared at it for hours to figure it out.
Quote
I went with just plain red stencil lettering for the canopy frame "NO STEP", but was force to leave it off the fillet as the scale is different and I couldn't get the crisp lettering I needed there.
I wound up getting it to sorta work by resizing a larger set of letters. It isn't perfect, but it's close. May be worth a shot.
Quote
I used the Normal map in combination with 'baked-in' effects for the panel section shading. The Normal map doesn't handle it really well, leaves blotchy marks at certain sun angles, but I left it in anyway. I also found a way in Photoshop to give the metal a slight bluish tint, which seems to help a lot with some of the surfaces. I left the rivets off the Normal map, it just can't handle those small details. I think I left the cowl screw depressions there though. Weird how you need to invert the color for things if they are on the booms depicted upside down in the diffuse map - I never would've figured that out and owe that all to Greebo and his build log. <S>
Okay, thanks. I'm having the same problem. It will leave random rectangles on certain places on the skin. Really random and I can't figure out a cause, so I was debating if it is even worth the effort any more.
That build log was phenomenal. I learned a lot of techniques from it. I haven't fiddled too much with the Normal map on the 38 yet. I don't have a good program for making them. :(
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: oboe on July 14, 2020, 10:23:19 PM
I attached the Normal map for Go Buggy. Try it on one of your skins and see if you can tell a difference. Whats really cool is just change your whole diffuse map to a 1024x1024 square filled with medium grey - 128/128/128. Then you just see the effects of the Normal map. I especially like what you can do with the oil cooler doors on the nacelle sides, and how you can "raise" the wingtip navigation lights and tail lights. Keeps the wheel rim from looking flat too.
I'm wondering now if those anti-glare panels were really black, or if they were really dark olive drab...
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2020, 10:45:40 PM
I attached the Normal map for Go Buggy. Try it on one of your skins and see if you can tell a difference. Whats really cool is just change your whole diffuse map to a 1024x1024 square filled with medium grey - 128/128/128. Then you just see the effects of the Normal map. I especially like what you can do with the oil cooler doors on the nacelle sides, and how you can "raise" the wingtip navigation lights and tail lights. Keeps the wheel rim from looking flat too.
I'm wondering now if those anti-glare panels were really black, or if they were really dark olive drab...
Thank you, sir! I'll try it.
Black vs OD... That's been a tough one. I had that struggle with BRAT III. Go with your gut. I'll look at my book again...
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2020, 10:49:51 PM
I'm wondering now if those anti-glare panels were really black, or if they were really dark olive drab...
I'm going with OD. Lyric probaby has the photo I have in mind but it's Jack with his ground crew by the nose. The other 38s in the group have black score boards and the color is DEFINITELY not the same as the anti-glare. A color photo of "WRANGLER" also has a black scoreboard and an OD anti-glare.
Edit In:
This is the picture I was talking about (Lyric posted it earlier). That's OD as opposed to the black letters.
(https://i.imgur.com/swVTB8Bh.jpg)
Based on the mission markings it was taken after this one, which could lead one to lean toward black anti-glare since it looks so dark.
(https://i.imgur.com/5b3xnakh.jpg)
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: oboe on July 14, 2020, 11:00:44 PM
I agree. OD it is. That composite I posted on the first page with the 3/4 view art profile and side profile of the nose also shows OD. I can save the black antiglare fot Itsy Bitsy II.
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: Vraciu on July 14, 2020, 11:06:42 PM
Black is one of the toughest colors to do right. I'm killing myself on a Mustang as we speak. :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
Title: Re: P-38J "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" Capt Jack Ilfrey, 20thFG 79thFS
Post by: oboe on July 15, 2020, 05:43:32 PM
Thanks to Vraciu for pointing out the anti-glare problem on the nose of bare metal P-38s. I think it looks much better - also went with dark olive drab rather than black for the anti-glare paint color; Lyrics photos helped making that decision.