Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: DaddyAce on October 14, 2020, 10:05:24 PM
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I've been using a CH Fighterstick, Pro throttle & Pro Pedals since my return to AH about 10 years ago, and have been happy with the CH stuff....But since the new CH stuff is apparently a crap-shoot on quality I've been wondering about other options.....and one of my sons recently offered to buy me a new VKB Modern Combat Gunfighter Mark III. So I've been doing some homework before he dumps the $ on the VKB.
The only game I play is Aces High, and pretty much just fly fighters. I'm hoping folks here can answer a couple questions for me:
1. I notice that VKB hats are 4 switches plus a push. Does the “push” basically simply add a 5th “switch”?
2. I've always simply setup my CH stuff in Aces High and not used the CH software. Is this a practical option with the VKB?
3. The VKB stick features 2 “ministicks”. I've never found good use for the ministick on my CH Throttle, but when I looked over the VKB software manual it seems you can use at least one of the ministicks as hat switches. Is this true?
4. Have others found good use of the minsticks as a ministick for Aces High?
5. Will it be easy to integrate the VKB stick with my CH throttle & pedals?
Thanks in advance for your answers/thoughts. :cheers:
-DaddyAce
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Not knowing anything about CH or VKB other than what I've read, but:
2) Setting up any stick directly in AH instead of using a third party software is and has always been a recommendable hassle free option.
5) AH will accept any mix of controllers Windows can see. I have 2 different Thrustmaster sticks, the other one working as a throttle only, and Saitek pedals. Someone once had a dozen gaming pads for various functions tied on a piece of plywood, plus a stick and potentially pedals as well. Simply choose the controller in the drop down menu and map a function to the desired axii/buttons.
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I've been using a CH Fighterstick, Pro throttle & Pro Pedals since my return to AH about 10 years ago, and have been happy with the CH stuff....But since the new CH stuff is apparently a crap-shoot on quality I've been wondering about other options.....and one of my sons recently offered to buy me a new VKB Modern Combat Gunfighter Mark III. So I've been doing some homework before he dumps the $ on the VKB.
The only game I play is Aces High, and pretty much just fly fighters. I'm hoping folks here can answer a couple questions for me:
1. I notice that VKB hats are 4 switches plus a push. Does the “push” basically simply add a 5th “switch”?
2. I've always simply setup my CH stuff in Aces High and not used the CH software. Is this a practical option with the VKB?
3. The VKB stick features 2 “ministicks”. I've never found good use for the ministick on my CH Throttle, but when I looked over the VKB software manual it seems you can use at least one of the ministicks as hat switches. Is this true?
4. Have others found good use of the minsticks as a ministick for Aces High?
5. Will it be easy to integrate the VKB stick with my CH throttle & pedals?
Thanks in advance for your answers/thoughts. :cheers:
-DaddyAce
The Modern Combat Edition has a few more switches and levers, but I have the Space Combat Grip (SCG), mainly because I saw that I could set it up exactly like my old CH Fighterstick. I'll attempt to answer your questions but keep in mind I have the different grip.
1. Yes, the center push on the hats is a simple button like any other.
2. I haven't installed the VKB software because it isn't needed in AH.
3. There is no 8 way hat option for my SCG stick. I don't know, but I doubt one is available for the MCG. If you're using a standard monitor, you'll need to map and use the ministick instead of an 8-way hat switch for views.
4. Not that I can recall.
5. Yes. I used my VKB stick with CH pedals and throttle before replacing both with more non VKB alternatives. All combinations work flawlessly.
Drawback:
I'm surprised the MCG doesn't come in a left handed version like the SCG.
The VKB build quality is excellent and I doubt I'll ever need another stick. I wish it had an 8-way hat option but I don't miss it in fighters. Unlike Virple, the Gunfighter base only support VKB grips.
There are a couple people in here that seemingly have every brand and grip available. They can talk more about comparisons and clarify any of the MCG specs I may have gotten wrong.
Heck of a son you've got there. :aok
:cheers:
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I've had a VKB Gunfighter w/MCG-Pro for a couple of years now. Easily the best stick I've ever had and built so well I doubt I'll need to buy another. The base is super configurable with optional cams, springs and clutches you can make it feel exactly how you'd like.
The MCG-Pro grip does have an 8-way hat on it. That particular hat is configurable in the software as a dual use hat. Starts as a normal hat. Long press on the center switches it a two axis hat. I use that for trims. Short press centers them. Long press, back to a regular hat. Really handy.
While you can use it without the software in AH you'll be without any of the dot commands, need to make macros for that. The software is daunting. It goes on forever. You can do things with a button you've never thought of! It's hard to get the hang of but once you have, it comes easy. Without it you're really limiting the ability of the stick IMO.
Availability can be a problem. They're a small company that makes things in small batches. But once you get an order it gets to you quickly. I'm East coast US and shipping takes about 5 days from China.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
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Oh and I have a CH pro throttle and MFG Crosswinds pedals. They're not a conflict at all. As Bizman said, if windows sees the controller, AH will make use of it. I'm still using the CH software for the throttle as I have several modes mapped to it. It's getting a bit flaky tho. Couple of the hats are starting to die. Hopefully VKB will come out with the throttle they've been taking about for years now.
The other mini stick on the MCG-Pro? I have it set up as two axii. I use it to zoom view or map. Basically I tried to set up the stick as close as I could to the CH Fighterstick it replaced. But there's so many more things to map!
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
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Not knowing anything about CH or VKB other than what I've read, but:
2) Setting up any stick directly in AH instead of using a third party software is and has always been a recommendable hassle free option.
5) AH will accept any mix of controllers Windows can see. I have 2 different Thrustmaster sticks, the other one working as a throttle only, and Saitek pedals. Someone once had a dozen gaming pads for various functions tied on a piece of plywood, plus a stick and potentially pedals as well. Simply choose the controller in the drop down menu and map a function to the desired axii/buttons.
Thank you Bizman. :salute
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The Modern Combat Edition has a few more switches and levers, but I have the Space Combat Grip (SCG), mainly because I saw that I could set it up exactly like my old CH Fighterstick. I'll attempt to answer your questions but keep in mind I have the different grip.
1. Yes, the center push on the hats is a simple button like any other.
2. I haven't installed the VKB software because it isn't needed in AH.
3. There is no 8 way hat option for my SCG stick. I don't know, but I doubt one is available for the MCG. If you're using a standard monitor, you'll need to map and use the ministick instead of an 8-way hat switch for views.
4. Not that I can recall.
5. Yes. I used my VKB stick with CH pedals and throttle before replacing both with more non VKB alternatives. All combinations work flawlessly.
Drawback:
I'm surprised the MCG doesn't come in a left handed version like the SCG.
The VKB build quality is excellent and I doubt I'll ever need another stick. I wish it had an 8-way hat option but I don't miss it in fighters. Unlike Virple, the Gunfighter base only support VKB grips.
There are a couple people in here that seemingly have every brand and grip available. They can talk more about comparisons and clarify any of the MCG specs I may have gotten wrong.
Heck of a son you've got there. :aok
:cheers:
Thank you Easy. :salute
I use VR, and being somewhat stiff & arthritic, I still use the hat on my CH stick to help this old guy with views. If the ministick can be mapped for views that sounds like a good use to me.
BTW, that same son was responsible for my Rift showing up here unexpected a couple years back....
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I've had a VKB Gunfighter w/MCG-Pro for a couple of years now. Easily the best stick I've ever had and built so well I doubt I'll need to buy another. The base is super configurable with optional cams, springs and clutches you can make it feel exactly how you'd like.
The MCG-Pro grip does have an 8-way hat on it. That particular hat is configurable in the software as a dual use hat. Starts as a normal hat. Long press on the center switches it a two axis hat. I use that for trims. Short press centers them. Long press, back to a regular hat. Really handy.
While you can use it without the software in AH you'll be without any of the dot commands, need to make macros for that. The software is daunting. It goes on forever. You can do things with a button you've never thought of! It's hard to get the hang of but once you have, it comes easy. Without it you're really limiting the ability of the stick IMO.
Availability can be a problem. They're a small company that makes things in small batches. But once you get an order it gets to you quickly. I'm East coast US and shipping takes about 5 days from China.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Thanks for the info Drano. :salute
One of the things I noticed that appealed to me was the flexibility in physically setting up the stick....other than scenarios I'm usually only "flying" for relatively short periods, but if I spend much time at it my wrist starts to complain, so the light spring options should help with that.
Yes I spent some time reading through the software manual....there is a lot there! About 150 pages worth as I recall.....and apparently written by someone who's likely first language is Russian, and certainly not English. Is it possible and practical to ease into using the software by setting up most of the stick in Aces High, but using the VKB software for certain things such as macros?
Okay, you three have helped convince me i should go for it, thanks again! :cheers:
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If you use a hat for views with VR you don't need an 8 way hat, turning your head slightly covers the corner views.
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If you use a hat for views with VR you don't need an 8 way hat, turning your head slightly covers the corner views.
Yes, that makes sense, good point FLS. :salute
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If you use a hat for views with VR you don't need an 8 way hat, turning your head slightly covers the corner views.
Agreed. With my RiftS I think I could get away with just a 45 degree left and right and be fine.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
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I went from CH to VIrpil your experience should be the same.
First lets talk about Binary ... Because sometimes people really don't get this and while more often than not it is overlooked it is very important when considering game flight controllers.
a Binary bit is basically an on off switch, 1 bit can only count from 0 to 1 or Off and On, giving them two positions, this is how memory works in a computer it stores binary bits your CPU uses binary and logic gates to make calculations.
In Binary
0 is 0
1 is 1
Now how to you count past one in Binary? You add bits this is what you can do with 2 bits.
00 = 0
01 = 1
10 = 2
11 = 3
The extra bit gives you 4 possible numbers from 0 to 3.
It takes 8 bits to make a byte 00000000 this allows you to count from 0 to 255 giving you 256 numbers.
12 bits gives you 4096 numbers or positions
14 bits gives you 16384 numbers or positions
15 bits gives you 32768 numbers or positions
16 bits gives you 65536 numbers or positions
I'm not sure how the controller is set up on CH gear, Virpil and VKB use 32 bit USB Controllers but we want to talk about axis sensors any way.
CH uses analog Potentiometer to 8 bit sensors giving them 256 postilions. That means you controller can only report a possible 256 positions through it's entire axis.
The thrustmaster warthog uses 12bit or 14bit Magnetic hall sensors depending on when you purchased them.
VKB controllers with MaRS sensors can be adjusted for resolutions up to 15-bit via the VKBdevCfg configuration software. (Note the black box is a 32 bit usb controller not an axis sensor)
https://vkbcontrollers.com/?faq=what-is-the-vkb-mars-sensor-technology-how-is-it-different-from-hall-effect
The VPC sensors use 16 bit contactless iGMR (magnetic field) technology, based on the latest ADC chips.
https://virpil.com/en/8-sample-data/blog/45-mongoost-50-electronics
On my CH fighterstick when I traveled smoothly across an axis the in game stick moved across the axis in a jerky stuttering manor. Aces High detects 16 bits of axis travel which gives you 65536 numbers or positions this is why the numbers run as high as they do even if you run a CH stick with 8 bit sensors.
1 position on an 8 bit stick is equal to 64 positions on a 14 bit stick 256 postilions on a 16 bit stick.
In other words if you move your axis one bit on an 8 bit stick aces high will see it jump from 0 to 255 out of the possible 32,768 positions off of center (center is half way point). When I move my t-50cm2 stick 1 position Aces High sees it as 1 position giving me a much higher degree of sensitivity and accuracy.
If nothing else you can hold E slightly better and your gun accuracy will improve greatly.
I currently run .....
Virpil VPC WarBrd base with a Mongoose T-50CM2 Stick on a 50mm extension in a monstertech table mount.
Virpil VPC Mongoose T-50CM2 throttle in a monstertech table mount.
Virpil VPC ACE-2 (Collectors) rudder pedals in a PEIN (Basic Edition) floor mount.
CH Throttle Quadrant mounted to desk above the Virpil Throttle.
That all being said I don't think there is honestly much difference between VKB and Virpil quality. Both are very good and while one can usuasually do something slightly better than other which one is better is going to be a matter of personal preference.
I will say however if you do not need Toe Brakes and you don't need to Man Spread a lot VKB probably makes the best bang for the buck rudder pedals hands down. If you need toe brakes the best is probably going to be the Thrustmaster TPR Pendular Rudder Pedals but they cost around $700 and can be very hard to find.
Crosswinds are really good, Virpil and Slaw are slightly better. I went with Virpil because I don't like crushing my nards, I need toes brakes, and they have a high level of adjustable which comes in handy with Helicopters, I also wanted to stay in the same manufacturers ecosystem as mush as possible.
Virpils software is hard to use it has a steep learning curve and does not do keybinds or macro's unlike the VKB configuration software.
I do not have a problem running Virpil along side my CH and TM gear however if you need to program keybinds or macros when you are mixing manufacters you may want to look into Joystick gremlin as CH Control Manager is a PITA to get working on windows 10 and it does not play well with other manufacturers programs like Razer and Thrustmaster.
I plan on writing an extensive review on my Virpil gear from ordering to set up to use.
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Cool, thank you for the detailed explanation Mayhem! :salute
My son asked me specifics today, and I decided to go with the VKB Modern Combat Edition Gunfighter Mark III, without twist option, and it showed as in stock. :cheers:
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Cool, thank you for the detailed explanation Mayhem! :salute
My son asked me specifics today, and I decided to go with the VKB Modern Combat Edition Gunfighter Mark III, without twist option, and it showed as in stock. :cheers:
You're gonna love it. Need a hand setting it up just give a shout.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
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Drawback:
Unlike Virple, the Gunfighter base only support VKB grips.
You can use TM's Warthog grip on the Gunfighter base.
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You're gonna love it. Need a hand setting it up just give a shout.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Thank you. Was ordered last night, apparently in stock, but they are behind on their shipping due to high demand backlog while they took a vacation...Supposed to show up here in 2 or 3 weeks. :joystick:
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Ordered a VKB stick on the 30th. Shipped on the 12th like the note said and received it today. Ordered pedals too after two days of flying on the deck with a twist stick and they just shipped, ordered on the 12th and shipped today. So it doesn't really take as long as they say, maybe 8-10 days total, give or take.
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Ordered a VKB stick on the 30th. Shipped on the 12th like the note said and received it today. Ordered pedals too after two days of flying on the deck with a twist stick and they just shipped, ordered on the 12th and shipped today. So it doesn't really take as long as they say, maybe 8-10 days total, give or take.
Nice to hear, would like to hear how you like your's. :cheers:
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You can use TM's Warthog grip on the Gunfighter base.
Is that right? I based my statement on a YouTube review. I might want to order a base for my son Warthog if it's the upgrade I'd expect.
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Is that right? I based my statement on a YouTube review. I might want to order a base for my son Warthog if it's the upgrade I'd expect.
I believe that you have to have an adapter to use the Warthog grip on the VKB base.
:salute
Sik
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I believe that you have to have an adapter to use the Warthog grip on the VKB base.
:salute
Sik
Correct. And while it will work it'll be at a lesser level of functionality as it isn't compatible with the VKB software. Can't program it. But for a straight up button press that isn't a problem with AH as you can do that within the game.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
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Correct. And while it will work it'll be at a lesser level of functionality as it isn't compatible with the VKB software. Can't program it. But for a straight up button press that isn't a problem with AH as you can do that within the game.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
It works at a full level of functionality. The programming is in the base, not the grip. You open the grip, remove the TM connector, and install the adapter. After that, for all intents and purposes, the grip behaves the same as any other VKB grip other than it doesn't have any analog axes, not even a twist grip. I adapted both the A-10 grip and the F/A-18 grip.
I used the original A-10 Warthog adapter for both rather than waiting for a dedicated F/A-18 Hornet adapter. This had two problems:
1) I had to file the metal shape a bit to fit the bottom of the Hornet grip.
2) the configuration software cannot distinguish between the two so games see both grips as the same stick.
If I map buttons for the Hornet grip, they don't quite line up with the button maps I would use for the Warthog grip. This doesn't really pose a problem for me because I only use the Warthog grip for flying the A-10 and F-16 and never use the Hornet grip with those aircraft. So all other aircraft end up with the Hornet mapping. I could always get the Hornet adapter, and then they would show up as different sticks. I may do so in the future, but it is far from an urgent need.
But the most cost-effective solution is to use the MCG Pro grip with the twist axis. It has so many hats, buttons, levers, etc. that there is no grip it can't mimic and in most cases will still have a ton of controls left over to map any other functions you want beyond the ones used by a real grip or typically used by most flight sim HOTAS setups. I have TM TPR pedals, but I map the twist grip into 5 buttons: far left, left, center, right, far right. The far left and far right are programmed to repeat continuously. I use this for paging through the kneepads in DCS with the center button left unused.
I haven't tried any of the Virpil sticks, but I have had the Saitek X-36 USB, X-45, X-52 Pro, the Microsoft Sidewinder (Pro?) USB, two Warthog sticks, and the Winwing F/A-18 stick. The VKB Gunfighter Mk2/Mk3 (I upgraded both of my Mk2 bases to Mk3) is by far the best stick I have ever used. The only thing that could make them better for me is having a force feedback option. The Virpil sticks have native support for the TM grips, but other than that, I see no advantages over the VKB. I have all of the available VKB grips and they all work really well. The oldest KG13 grip is neither a very good replica (the shape is ok but no texture on the grip sides) nor has the creative and useful switch mapping seen in later grip designs: i.e. the flip down trigger does not send signals for being flipped up or down, just the trigger pull, the left thumb button is a pov hat without a center depress, and the top center thumb button is only a button when it could have been a hat, too.
I am obviously a huge fan of both the Gunfighter Pro base and and the associated grips, but I have no use for their rudder pedals because they don't have toe brakes.
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^^ Agree with above. I've had the Mk1, Mk2 (2 of them), and now a MK3 Gunfighter from VKB. I also have every Virpil base and stick, multiples of each. IMO the VKB Gunfigher Mk2RevB or the Mk3 is - by a narrow margin - the best desktop stick you can buy right now. I say this because Virpil's only desktop stick is the Warbrd base, and it's inferior to their T50CM2 which requires a desk clamp/mount due to its height. The T50CM2 and VKB Gunfighter are very, very closely matched, easy to call a tie, but again, the VKB stick is perfect for desktop use, and can easily be put into a mount from several different mount makers such as Monster and so forth.
I am just starting to buy the various VKB handles/grips, I have a Cosmina and the standard MCG grip already, but am shortly going to have the others in hand. I'll do a short video comparing the various Virpil/VKB handles and bases then.
If you can only (or only want) a single stick though, you're using it on a desktop surface, and the cost isn't prohibitive, the VKB Gunfighter is the one to buy IMO as well.
Another note - the shipping experience with VKB has been outstanding for me (pre Covid disruptions). I ordered a couple Gunfighter 2's at 3AM on a Friday, and they were at my door the Tuesday after the weekend, on the 3rd business day. Same experience when I re ordered a couple months later. VERY fast and efficient shipping.
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Is that right? I based my statement on a YouTube review. I might want to order a base for my son Warthog if it's the upgrade I'd expect.
That reminds me of a similar story about fishing. I was on a lake I had never fished before. I was fishing from the bank. I was not catching a thing. I noticed around the bend, a rather large black lady with a cane pole, she was pulling them in pretty regular. I figured she came here often and knew the place. The next day I was over at the point where she had been catching the fish. I was not even getting a nibble. I looked up and I saw that woman over where I was the day before.... she was catching fish one after another. Well, I had to know what her secret was so I went over to talk to her. I asked how she knew what side of the lake to fish on. She said," wells.. when I wakes up in tha mornin, if my ol mans tang is on the right side, I fish on the right side of tha lake. If it is on the left side, I fish on tha left side of that lake." I shook my head in amazement. I then asked her, "what if it's standing straight up?" She said," Oh dens I stays home".
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ROFL Shuffler!
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Best flight sim gear purchase i have ever made. Have the Gunfighter MK3 Modern Combat Edition with the twist, 200mm extension mounted to their stronghold. Everything about it is solid and smooth. Fist thing I'd do is test the feel of it, I mounted mine then took it apart to swap to the 50# springs and the hard center cams.
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Nice to hear, would like to hear how you like your's. :cheers:
Update. Well the gunfighter stick it just amazing. Smooth all around and almost makes toast. All the issues I had with the MKII Gladiator are gone. Had lots of play in the stick and any auto pilot would do its own thing with the MKII. That doesn't happen at all with the gunfighter. Built solid, no play at all. I might change out the springs in the pitch to a higher set but that's about it right now. Fingertip flying when just getting to the AO then it can take some abuse of those new knife fights I'm getting into.
Rudder pedals arrive today, 10 calendar days from the date of order. I just have to lock the twist stick and that should be it.
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Update. Well the gunfighter stick it just amazing. Smooth all around and almost makes toast. All the issues I had with the MKII Gladiator are gone. Had lots of play in the stick and any auto pilot would do its own thing with the MKII. That doesn't happen at all with the gunfighter. Built solid, no play at all. I might change out the springs in the pitch to a higher set but that's about it right now. Fingertip flying when just getting to the AO then it can take some abuse of those new knife fights I'm getting into.
Rudder pedals arrive today, 10 calendar days from the date of order. I just have to lock the twist stick and that should be it.
And the best part is between the cams, springs and clutches you can really make this stick feel any way you like. You can even go in and set curves in the software if that ain't enough. Tweaker's paradise.
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My stick arrived this morning, after my son ordered it late in the day on the 15th! So far am very impressed although I've not yet started to set it up. But on delivery they said 2-3 weeks, got here from China to Montana in less than 8 days from ordering. Packaging was very nice. I suspect this could have sat on my deck through multiple snows & rains and still stay dry inside.
Thanks all for your replies!
Now I'm hoping this thing includes a wife-ack deflector......
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Read the fortune cookie packed inside. It always has some suggestions for wifeack.
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Here ya go, Force Feedback! https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/product/cls-e-joystick/
In all seriousness, how does one test out the Left vs. Right handed stick before making a choice? I am a lefty and left-eye dominant, but have only ever used right-handed sticks both in flight sims and in real life. Would it be too late to try it out now? Also, really considering this VKB or Virpil suggestions. Gotta upgrade from my Microsoft Force-Feedback 2...
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.....
In all seriousness, how does one test out the Left vs. Right handed stick before making a choice? I am a lefty and left-eye dominant, but have only ever used right-handed sticks both in flight sims and in real life. Would it be too late to try it out now? Also, really considering this VKB or Virpil suggestions. Gotta upgrade from my Microsoft Force-Feedback 2...
I think you'd just have to make a choice and go with it. Based on again reading the comments in the this thread I think you'd be happy with either VKB or Virpil, other than perhaps setup frustrations....more on that in a bit, but I'm confident once I get my VKB setup properly I'll be vary happy with it.
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I received my VKB Gunfighter 3 yesterday Oct.23 after ordering it on Oct. 16. Just 7 days!
My first Gunfighter MCG Pro is the first version and is the best I have ever used. I purchased the latest version for my other pc.
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I'm about to get the gladiator nxt with the premium grip. Looks like a pretty good stick for the money and has an 8 way mini stick that will work well with views i think.
Really excited for a new stick!
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Here ya go, Force Feedback! https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/product/cls-e-joystick/
In all seriousness, how does one test out the Left vs. Right handed stick before making a choice? I am a lefty and left-eye dominant, but have only ever used right-handed sticks both in flight sims and in real life. Would it be too late to try it out now? Also, really considering this VKB or Virpil suggestions. Gotta upgrade from my Microsoft Force-Feedback 2...
You don't need to worry about handedness with a joystick. Whatever you're used to works best.
Also, a lefty stick needs a lefty throttle for a HOTAS.
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I say this because Virpil's only desktop stick is the Warbrd base, and it's inferior to their T50CM2 which requires a desk clamp/mount due to its height. The T50CM2 and VKB Gunfighter are very, very closely matched, easy to call a tie, but again, the VKB stick is perfect for desktop use, and can easily be put into a mount from several different mount makers such as Monster and so forth.
Ummm I have to disagree with you here. First Unless you your using a very short stick the warbrd Base is not very good for desktop use .... I have the T-50 CM2 stick and it's tall like 236mm (9.3 inches) by comparison the warbrd grip is only 180mm (7.1 inches) but I wouldn't put my CH fighterstick on my desktop either ... I ran it on a Writing board on a drawer with a board over it or in a mount, but never on the desk. I haven't put a joystick on my desk since I had Microsoft sidewinder twisty stick and I was playing Air Warrior for Windows on AOL.
I currently use Monstertech mounts for both my Throttle and Stick with JPein for my pedals.
Secondly the CM2 vs the Warbrd base is an Apples to Oranges comparison. They are meant for different uses.
The CH fighterstick has 24 Degrees of deflection giving it one of the longest flight stick ranges of travel ever. This is what I'm use to LONG TRAVEL. The CM2 base gives you 16 degrees and the warbrd Gives you 22 degrees of deflection.
My CM2 stick on a Warbrd base gives it a larger range of travel even over my CH fighter stick. On the Warbrd base the CM2 stick gets 230mm of travel (9.1 inch) the Warbrd stick in the warbrd base only gives you 180mm (7.1 Inch) of travel. I wouldn't even consider putting the warbrd base on my desk with anything larger than the warbrd stick. I also run an Extension ....
When I add my 50mm extension my CM2 on my Warbrd base it gives me 252mm (9.9 inch) of travel.
(Personal preference note: For fixed wing aircraft I prefer side mounted sticks f16 style over center mount and I prefer the feel of Scissor cams to a one piece cam)
This is functional difference between the 2 bases one is for no or short extensions and desk mounting one is for long extensions and floor mounting.
I would not replace my warbrd base on my existing set up as the CM2 base would shorten my travel distance on my stick.
However, when Virpil's Collective comes available or I give up and grab a Komodo collective I'm probably going to grab a CM2 base for my CM2 stick and some really long extensions for DCS Helicopters. (I also want to run Dual sticks in a HOSASAT set up for ED)
The warbrd base would be a bad choice as the increased deflection would give me way way to much travel from a floor mount and it also lacks heavy enough springs to handle anything over a 100mm extension (God forbid your using a TM F-16 Cougar or A-10 Warthog stick as they are heavy) another issue is the Warbrd base lacks a clutch or any tension adjustments other than spring changes and even then they lack the choices of the CM2 springs and cams, again the warbrd base wasn't made for long extensions.
If I'm not mistaken you can run without springs on the CM2 base a lot better than you can on the warbrd base which makes it better for choppers.
Between the VKB and Virpil bases the GFIII I heard has a superior clutching mechanism making it slightly better for Helicopters and Off hand HOSAS set ups.
Thats not even touching on the fact the T50-CM2 Base is 100 eros more than the warbrd base That's a third more expensive than the Warbrd.
http://www.havoc-company.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1386 (Diagrams of Virpil products)
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I'm about to get the gladiator nxt with the premium grip. Looks like a pretty good stick for the money and has an 8 way mini stick that will work well with views i think.
Really excited for a new stick!
just bought one myself. my god it feels like im churning molasses. the damn thing has so much damping grease its unusable to me from the factory.
took it apart and spent about 3 hours cleaning off the unholy sticky damping grease. bout to put it back together with silicone grease. well see how it is after that.