Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: perdue3 on December 22, 2020, 01:35:01 PM
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I watched the Netflix series "The Ripper" this week about the Yorkshire Ripper. The question does not pertain to that, nor is it even important regarding the question. In the documentary, a dialectologist listened to about a minute of tape of a man speaking. After much careful scrutiny, the dialectologist and a colleague determined that the man not only hailed from Sunderland, but narrowed it down to the the very neighborhood of Castletown. This is quite remarkable.
My question is, how the hell is this possible? While I realize you may not be a linguist, but can you sniff out certain areas of cities that people are from? Here in the States, I could probably ascertain what part of the country and, at times, what state or city a person is from. Never, could I say, "Oh wow, he is from Southwestern Indianapolis" from an accent alone. Even the major cities like Boston, Philadelphia, and New York, how does someone deduce that a fellow is from Long Island and not Staten Island or Manhattan?
England is much smaller, obviously. The language has existed there for some twelve hundred years or so, I think. I understand why and how the dialects are the way they are and understand the fact that they have been localized. It is still difficult to fathom that a man could locate an accent within a square mile or two. What is the reason there? From a country that is so large, it is difficult for me to imagine. Never have I studied the nuances and subtleties of dialects within dialects as was done by this man of the Geordie accent. As aforementioned, I could deduce that a man has an Appalachian accent. I could probably go even further and tell you if it is Carolinian, high, or low. I do not think I could tell you where precisely the man is from. Does this come with acreage, you think? Is it the same sort of science, but in a much smaller area? I'd love to hear the English take on this.
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Nothern England has many regional accents and even towns are diverse.
Where i lived they sounded like they were speaking Anglo Saxon.
In the Liverpool they have an accent which is virtually impossible for non British to understand.
Yorkshire is full of sheep molesters.
And anything down south is of no interest.
The Midlands dielect sounds like they are all off the short bus.
When i was in Arizona they thought i was from Scotland.
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So, could a normal person in Northern England (not a linguist) tell the difference in a Northumbrian accent and a Lancashire accent? What about specifics within the dialect? Can a person tell if someone is from Blackpool or Burnley?
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In Burnley they say things like ‘I dont know for what do”
I worked with a bloke from Wigan, it took me six months to understand what he was saying, Wigan is 20 miles from where i live.
Northern England has only contempt for Southerners, they are eunuchs like Bruv, and talk about their feelings and have their eyebrows plucked like catamites.
The pub i goto is on the River Mersey, you dont cause any trouble in there or you will get a proper leathering.
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Yes it is relatively easy to distinguish local accents. When I lived Just north of Nottingham we could tell which village someone had grown up in even though those villages were just 5 miles apart.
This of course assumes they spent their formative years in that location unlike people like me who grew up as army brats and were exposed to an array of accents.
I now live in Australia and have lost some of the ability to distinguish small localities however am not usually too far off in terms of the nearest large city based on someone’s accent. My wife is always amazed. 😀
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Nottingham is full of dog :old:fetlers
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I believe Germans have the same ability. At least they do in the movies. ;)
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Hellstrom knew he was not in the film the whole time.
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The neighbourhood claim is denied if you read up about the case. And the dialectologist had done a specific study in that area, so had lots of relevant research.
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The neighbourhood claim is denied if you read up about the case. And the dialectologist had done a specific study in that area, so had lots of relevant research.
I know the results of case, now. I was just fascinated that a dialect could be traced to a neighborhood in a city.
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When we went to Ireland many were hard to understand. However they understood us very well. :headscratch:
Here in AZ you were mistaken for a Scotsman, hmmm idk maybe some of the Californians that have moved here in droves.
I certainly can tell the difference!
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I believe Germans have the same ability. At least they do in the movies. ;)
Guess it's true in most countries that have been populated long enough by the same people. I can tell the direction of Finnish dialects pretty well and adapted to my current location pretty well. However the locals can tell I was not born here! My "dialect" is an Eastern blend of a 100 miles circle around here as that's where I used to travel during my 18 year stint as a representative. Locals can tell I'm not local but they can't tell my origins either.
The history of American English is too short for local dialects. The American people have come from all around the world and the process hasn't stopped yet. Even Pres. Trump has a different accent to his parents. Saying that American English is a foreign language for all US citizens may not be too far fetched...
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Bizman looks French and like leather shorts and big sausage.
So his dialect is very odd
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How did you know I just bought a pair of Lederhosen in October??? They're barely long enough to hide my sausage.
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When we moved to Tynemouth when I was 12 in 1971 I was asked to stand up in class and speak so they could hear my New Orleans accent :)
It was my first experience with snow
Fish and chips and the local movie house was great
The hobby store was a quick double decker bus ride as were the baths
Great times as a kid
Eagler
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Guess it's true in most countries that have been populated long enough by the same people. I can tell the direction of Finnish dialects pretty well and adapted to my current location pretty well. However the locals can tell I was not born here! My "dialect" is an Eastern blend of a 100 miles circle around here as that's where I used to travel during my 18 year stint as a representative. Locals can tell I'm not local but they can't tell my origins either.
The history of American English is too short for local dialects. The American people have come from all around the world and the process hasn't stopped yet. Even Pres. Trump has a different accent to his parents. Saying that American English is a foreign language for all US citizens may not be too far fetched...
I think you are correct, Bizman. American English has not had enough time to localize as English in England has. Granted, there still exists some subtleties that are noticeable to the keen ear. I live in a fairly large, southern state. On the coast, they have a much different dialect than in the mountains. In between, where I am from, it is different still. The mountain folk drop their R's, the plains folk bend every vowel (like me), and the coastal folk say "wuh-ter" instead of water. Still, if I heard a mountain person I could never say, "Hey, sounds like you are from Boone." I could never pinpoint a town.
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I guarantee this colleague wouldn't be able to find my accent within 100 miles of my birthplace, and as such I'm hugely sceptical of the OP.
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I guarantee this colleague wouldn't be able to find my accent within 100 miles of my birthplace, and as such I'm hugely sceptical of the OP.
Perhaps, it is baffling to me as well. There is much to say about losing accents as well, yea? The tape in question was clearly a Geordie accent, but then to be able to pinpoint where that came from within Sunderland is the part that really baffles me. I do not see how that is possible.
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Why are you watching programs on English serial killers?
Is there something we should know?
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Why are you watching programs on English serial killers?
Is there something we should know?
Lol, it was a special on Netflix. Seemed interesting, was interesting.
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I think you are correct, Bizman. American English has not had enough time to localize as English in England has. Granted, there still exists some subtleties that are noticeable to the keen ear. I live in a fairly large, southern state. On the coast, they have a much different dialect than in the mountains. In between, where I am from, it is different still. The mountain folk drop their R's, the plains folk bend every vowel (like me), and the coastal folk say "wuh-ter" instead of water. Still, if I heard a mountain person I could never say, "Hey, sounds like you are from Boone." I could never pinpoint a town.
I guess that's about how it is in the US. It's vast, the density of the population wasn't high enough for a very local dialect to grow from the various foreign accents of the immigrants. In big cities there was a Chinatown, Harlem, Little Germany/Italy/Spain/any other country etc. where people shared the same background and language in a pretty tight neighbourhood. Those areas can have a recognizable dialect and where new ethnic groups gather they will add their own spice to the language even today. Isolation and mass is the recipe for a dialect to develop. Belonging to a group will produce a "dialect" even worldwide. Just think about us AH'ers, we use terms that outsiders don't understand. Other gamers as well. Not to mention work related vocabulary...
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I guess that's about how it is in the US. It's vast, the density of the population wasn't high enough for a very local dialect to grow from the various foreign accents of the immigrants. In big cities there was a Chinatown, Harlem, Little Germany/Italy/Spain/any other country etc. where people shared the same background and language in a pretty tight neighbourhood. Those areas can have a recognizable dialect and where new ethnic groups gather they will add their own spice to the language even today. Isolation and mass is the recipe for a dialect to develop. Belonging to a group will produce a "dialect" even worldwide. Just think about us AH'ers, we use terms that outsiders don't understand. Other gamers as well. Not to mention work related vocabulary...
Very true.
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Yes
Fetling is a term to describe individuals who perform acts of deviant behaviour on individuals or live stock.
Sheep is usual said live stock in Wales or Yorkshire.
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Yes
Fetling is a term to describe individuals who perform acts of deviant behaviour on individuals or live stock.
Sheep is usual said live stock in Wales or Yorkshire.
I though all Englishmen get randy with sheep at one time or another, I was unaware that it was a strictly North Umbrian activity.
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Zack is alive!!!
I agree though Perdweeb accents are fascinating. For such a small island you can go 60 miles in any direction and people start to sound funny.
Americans sometimes mistake me for an Aussie, being south coast central but most of them would have gone through here on their prison ships.
Geordie is my favourite accent but scousers and west country folk are good too. Once space travel becomes common place it opens up all sorts of weird and wonderful opportunities for language to diverge or evolve.
Having a Christmas Pie Zack?
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America likely has many regional accents due to the diversity of the immigrant's backgrounds and their tendency to stay in those groups while acquiring a new language. Connecticut, which is a small state, has 5 regional accents but they might all sound the same to someone from Boston or New Orleans, which have their own distinct accents.
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Bruv was caught fetlng a dog outside the Co Op in 1997.
No charges was brought as said canine made no complaint.
Happy Christmas Bruv :aok
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Lol, it was a special on Netflix. Seemed interesting, was interesting.
He's in England, they're stuck watching reruns of Benny Hill.
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Perdue,
You did not mention the dialect(if it can called such) of Charleston SC citizens. That is something of itself.
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Perdue,
You did not mention the dialect(if it can called such) of Charleston SC citizens. That is something of itself.
Oh man, hard to lump that one in with Appalachian. Savannah and Charleston certainly have their own accent which is not even Southern, more regal than anything. I think it is the closest thing resembling the King's we have in the United States.
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After reading this thread, I remembered this video from an old YT channel I used to watch, and it's still up. (Youtube link button is broken).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyyT2jmVPAk
This one is pretty good too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_BDG9JtGw8
I know the RCMP up here have voice recognition systems that they employ across the entire comms spectrum up here, and it can pick out accents and immediately classify them across North America. I'm sure the systems used in Europe/etc can do the same.
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The youtube button works when you copy the SHARE link.
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Cajun is just slurring words together while yelling, and then laughing about something. Then everyone goes to a gator wrestling match. Standard dress code is barefoot with overalls and no shirt. :old:
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and talk about their feelings and have their eyebrows plucked like catamites.
:rofl :aok
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Perhaps, it is baffling to me as well. There is much to say about losing accents as well, yea?
It's; Despite being local to the area for generations my family never held the local dialect.
People have thought I was from the south, even though I have a northern U pronunciation, it'd make you colleagues head spin like linda blair. :lol
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Dolby is Welsh he has a round head.
Welsh people have read heads.