Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Greebo on May 03, 2021, 06:36:54 AM
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Thank you to Lyric1 for finding me the info for this skin, which is an adoption of one originally done by gghost in 2008 but which now lacks the current AH3 lighting files.
"The Trojan Warhorse" was a P-47D of the 86th Fighter Squadron, 79th Fighter Group. This group first flew combat mission in Tunisia in March 1943, escorting medium bombers as the Allied armies began the final battles to drive the Axis forces out of Africa. As part of the 9th and later 12th Air Forces they fought in Sicily and Italy, often flying ground support missions for the British 8th Army.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33941)
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33943)
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Beautiful job.
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Looks great!
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Very cool. Nice variation of color on this one.
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Its fantastic, Greebo, as are all your '47s.
Curious though, I'm looking at these images on a MacBook, and the blue tail and trim are showing as distinctly blue-green. The profiles I've seen of this skin depict medium blue or sometimes deeper blue. Just wondering, as its not uncommon for blues to appear differently to people. Most often I think, people notice purple, indicating to much red. Could just be my display, or my eyes this morning :rolleyes:
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33945)
<S>
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Its fantastic, Greebo, as are all your '47s.
Curious though, I'm looking at these images on a MacBook, and the blue tail and trim are showing as distinctly blue-green. The profiles I've seen of this skin depict medium blue or sometimes deeper blue. Just wondering, as its not uncommon for blues to appear differently to people. Most often I think, people notice purple, indicating to much red. Could just be my display, or my eyes this morning :rolleyes:
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33945)
<S>
The tail looks blue-green to me as well.
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Lyric1 found me a couple of colour photos of this aircraft for reference which show the tail, canopy and horse art were painted in a blue/green colour. This looks to my eyes to be a good match for USAAF Sea Green so that is the colour I went with.
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:aok
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Lyric1 found me a couple of colour photos of this aircraft for reference which show the tail, canopy and horse art were painted in a blue/green colour. This looks to my eyes to be a good match for USAAF Sea Green so that is the colour I went with.
Cool!
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I guess Sea Green would be a mixture of blue and green, so that makes sense. Any chance though, that the age of the color photographs may have affected the display of the original color? I have rarely seen these tails in anything other than what I would guess is ANA 501 True Blue.
I also found this document: Camouflage & Markings Republic P-4 7 Thunderbolt U.S.A.A.F., E.T.O. & M.T.O., 1942-1945 (http://kativ.eu/files/IvoHobby/Airplanes/1-48/P47D%20NoseArt%20-%201-48%20Academy%20-%20%D0%B7%D0%B0%20%D0%BF%D1%8A%D1%80%D0%B2%D0%B8%20%D0%BF%D1%8A%D1%82%20%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BC%20%D0%B4%D0%B0%20%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%8F%20%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BD%20%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%20%D0%9E%D0%BA%D1%82%202008/2008-11%2000%20%D0%BA%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B8%20%D0%B8%20%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BA%D0%B8/Camouflage%20&%20Markings%2015%20-%20P47%20USAAF%20ETO-MTO%201942-45.pdf)
This document indicates the 79th FG's tails were painted medium blue:
The 79th FG, which received it first P-47s in March 1944, continued to use the system of battle numbers formerly applied to its P-40s. This system was the same as that of 57th FG except that group identification in the form of a letter X was painted adjacent to the number on each aircraft. The letter was usually painted as a prefix to the number on both sides of the fuselage but there were several examples where the X was a suffix. These characters were in white on camouflage finish and black on natural metal. Some 79th aircraft had red nose cowl during the later part of 1944, but by 1945 only the lower portion of the nose was painted. A group identification marking was introduced at this time and consisted of medium blue painted tail surface with yellow lightning flashes on fin and rudder. The pattern and extent of the flashes varied, particularly when the marking was first adopted.
Hard to argue against photographic evidence though!
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There's a Corsair Ive been looking at that is believed to have had a similar green field mix for squad ID markings, only image is it passing by taking off in black and white film.
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Here are the images Lyric1 found me, they are a bit low res but the colour balance looks OK to me.
(https://i.imgur.com/VmvSJ0Sh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PUM4mS2h.jpg)
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Here are the images Lyric1 found me, they are a bit low res but the colour balance looks OK to me.
(https://i.imgur.com/VmvSJ0Sh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PUM4mS2h.jpg)
From the web site I found these they stated they were a couple of frames from a film.
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Nice! Thanks for posting those. Would love to see that film to see if there are any shots of the tails with full sun illumination - both of these shots the sun seems pretty high and the tails are in shadow.
Great find lyric, and thanks for sharing them, Greebo.
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Kinda looks like blue in shadow.
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Looking at the shadow on the ground the sun is almost directly above the aircraft, just slightly to the rear. I'd also say that the canopy, horse and vertical tail are all painted in the same colour. While the vertical tail is in shadow the canopy frame and top of the horse are not and they still look bluish-green to me.
I can't find any reference to a USAAF colour called Medium Blue, does anyone have any information on it? I did consider USAAF Light blue (also known as True Blue) for this skin but it seemed too light to be the colour in the photo.
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I thought the horse was blue myself. More blue than green any way.
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Looking at your skin again I would say you hit the color in the photo pretty well, the only question being how the lighting and film altered it.
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Looking at the shadow on the ground the sun is almost directly above the aircraft, just slightly to the rear. I'd also say that the canopy, horse and vertical tail are all painted in the same colour. While the vertical tail is in shadow the canopy frame and top of the horse are not and they still look bluish-green to me.
I can't find any reference to a USAAF colour called Medium Blue, does anyone have any information on it? I did consider USAAF Light blue (also known as True Blue) for this skin but it seemed too light to be the colour in the photo.
I agree the horse profile, canopy trim, and tail are all probably the same color. As Vraciu points out, the effects of the lighting and age of film must have some effect on the color we're seeing. (Does color film "yellow" with age? And could a yellowing of the blue produce the greenish-blue shade we're seeing?)
I couldn't find a Medium Blue anywhere either, although I think most people would see ANA 501 as a medium blue (despite it being referred to as Lt Blue). I have a couple of websites I try to reference when I am unsure of colors.
The first has an image of ANA Color Cards, and luckily ANA 501 is the top card. This is the darkest version of ANA 501 I have seen:
https://www.aircorpsart.com/blog/WWII-color-codes/ (https://www.aircorpsart.com/blog/WWII-color-codes/)
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33954)
Another website with a more complete ANA listing is this one: https://www.cybermodeler.com/color/ana_matrix.shtml (https://www.cybermodeler.com/color/ana_matrix.shtml)
I made this color chart with info from that site:
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33956)
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I have been experimenting with the colour balance tool in PSP, reducing the amount of green in the photos by enough to make the green/blue colour look like Light Blue. However this gave the rest of the photo an unrealistic red tint. So I am not convinced the colour balance of the photo is wrong, or at least not by enough for Light Blue to be a better fit than Sea Green. If a better photo turns up I'll reconsider but otherwise I will leave the colour it as it is.
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I have been experimenting with the colour balance tool in PSP, reducing the amount of green in the photos by enough to make the green/blue colour look like Light Blue. However this gave the rest of the photo an unrealistic red tint. So I am not convinced the colour balance of the photo is wrong, or at least not by enough for Light Blue to be a better fit than Sea Green. If a better photo turns up I'll reconsider but otherwise I will leave the colour it as it is.
Fair enough, but from my research into restoring old color film, I don't think adjusting the green tint of the entire photo is accurate. The cyan, magenta, and yellow dyes that are used to record the color in old movie film decay at different rates. So to be fair, you might need to rebalance each channel for specific areas of the image until you get an accurate looking result.
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I tried playing with one of the old color photos in Photoshop. I assume the grass is greener, and appears yellow/brown in the photo due to the effects of film aging. I increased Saturation, increased Contrast, decreased Brightness to compensate for overexposure. Then I shifted the color balance of the photo on the Yellow-Blue spectrum slider, increasing blue while decreasing yellow - all the while aiming for realistic green grass.
Top photo is the original, the bottom is my changes. The sea green on the tail has diminished, and the tail has taken on a more blue hue - and this is with the tail in shadow - if it had been illuminated I'm sure the blue would be lighter/brighter. I don't see an unrealistic red cast to the bottom photo; in fact I think there is less red now, looking at the taxiway.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33958)
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I have a couple of books on the 79th fighter group that I ordered a few days ago. They should arrive in a few days. Maybe they have some more images in them.
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You guys amaze me.
(Devil does below, too.)
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I tried playing with one of the old color photos in Photoshop. I assume the grass is greener, and appears yellow/brown in the photo due to the effects of film aging. I increased Saturation, increased Contrast, decreased Brightness to compensate for overexposure. Then I shifted the color balance of the photo on the Yellow-Blue spectrum slider, increasing blue while decreasing yellow - all the while aiming for realistic green grass.
Top photo is the original, the bottom is my changes. The sea green on the tail has diminished, and the tail has taken on a more blue hue - and this is with the tail in shadow - if it had been illuminated I'm sure the blue would be lighter/brighter. I don't see an unrealistic red cast to the bottom photo; in fact I think there is less red now, looking at the taxiway.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33958)
Oboe, I don't think you're on the right track.
1. This photo was taken in southern Italy. The grass will could easily be yellow/brown.
2. Look that the shading and the stars in the insignia on the fuselage in your doctored photo. They've turned purple. Pretty clear to me that the adjustments you made are not the right ones based on that.
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Chil-p47-368fg.jpg)
Different unit but similar color....
Too bad you can’t find this video:
(http://www.probuiltmodel.com/img/galleries2images/AMu5UXXU.jpg)
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Yes my attempt was ham-handed to be sure. I also noticed the green grass visible under the right wing of the C47. If age-related yellowing turned the green grass brown, why is that grass green?
Hopefully Lyric's new books will have some answers.
If I stare long enough at the original photo, I can pretty easily imagine that it is desaturated, yellowed True Blue in the shade. And that would match the documentation of a medium-blue on the tails.
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Noticed a few profiles online that seem to have a green/blue tail as well.
(https://i.imgur.com/KV3x2wkh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/O0lGSSKh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uPDbnGwh.jpg)
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Thanks for everyone's input into this, I'm still open to changing the colour if better info is found. The written reference to medium blue reads more like a vague description than a specific colour. It could be true blue/light blue or sea green, which is actually more of a blue/green colour. The steel planked runway on Oboe's colour shifted photo looks too purple to my eyes and like Devil says, the grass could easily be brown in patches.
I don't trust profiles/models/paintings for things like this. I've just seen too many examples over the years where each artist has used previous artists' work as their only reference and so transferred their mistakes over too. Thanks for ordering those books Lyric1, with any luck there will be a better colour photo in one of them.
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Found another colour image of it on Facebook.
(https://i.imgur.com/AdtsPdwh.jpg)
Black and white one with it.
(https://i.imgur.com/wrYxd2gh.jpg)
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Let's use a little logic here.
The squad emblem is a Native American on a cloud with the sky in the background.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/86th_Fighter-Interceptor_Squadron_-_Emblem.jpg/165px-86th_Fighter-Interceptor_Squadron_-_Emblem.jpg)
In most photos, the color and tone of the tail seems to match the sky portion of the emblem.
Nobody would use a darkish blue-green for sky blue, but any medium blue would do.
It seems likely to me that the painters would use the same paint for both.
Therefore, I think the tail is probably a medium blue. Most likely ANA 501 True Blue.
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I agree the sky on the squadron badge was unlikely to have been painted blue/green which was why I painted it blue on the skin. I don't think it is necessarily the case the tail colour was the same as the badge colour though. Lets see what Lyric1's books turn up, there's a month until the next review after all.
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Like to pick this guys brain as to what colour blue the tail is. :aok
(https://i.imgur.com/faIC2j7h.jpg)
First book arrived it's a 1977 edition no colour pictures some text that is possibly useful. Of course the later version book had no tracking on it so not quite sure when it will arrive says its shipped though.
(https://i.imgur.com/7kFhysqh.jpg)
Says light blue above.
Have another colour image I found on Facebook not that sure it falls into the light blue category though? Lighter than the insignia I guess.
(https://i.imgur.com/G0NM34Eh.jpg)
Wait for the newer book to arrive and go from there.
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Have another colour image I found on Facebook not that sure it falls into the light blue category though? Lighter than the insignia I guess.
(https://i.imgur.com/G0NM34Eh.jpg)
Yeah, but look how dark the sky looks and it's nearly the same color as the tail.
I'm still in the True Blue camp.
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AFAIK, True Blue and Light Blue are the same color - ANA 501. I've seen it listed as either. It appears to me as more of a medium blue, but compared to Insignia Blue, I could see how someone might name it Light Blue.
I still suspect that if the fading, desaturation, darkening, and yellowing experienced by old color images could be reversed some how, you'd see ANA 501 or something similar on the tails. In addition, no documenter I've found referred to the tail color as any shade of green - only medium blue or light blue.
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Let's use a little logic here.
The squad emblem is a Native American on a cloud with the sky in the background.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/86th_Fighter-Interceptor_Squadron_-_Emblem.jpg/165px-86th_Fighter-Interceptor_Squadron_-_Emblem.jpg)
In most photos, the color and tone of the tail seems to match the sky portion of the emblem.
Nobody would use a darkish blue-green for sky blue, but any medium blue would do.
It seems likely to me that the painters would use the same paint for both.
Therefore, I think the tail is probably a medium blue. Most likely ANA 501 True Blue.
The other book arrived no colour photos in it pretty much identical text about the light blue tails. The squadron patches are hard to find on any of the 79th aircraft in colour until you look at the captured axis planes they had. There is more colour photos of those than American built planes.
(https://i.imgur.com/Uc4NcnLh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/StfJtjLh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cNpw6TSh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1RkTqMJh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/opQhhr8h.jpg)
The last image seems to be the closest thing to the colour photos of the P-47's I think.
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Well, I did some research on ANA 501 True/Light Blue. Apparently there were two versions of it, pre-43 and post 43. There are lots of colour swatches on the internet and they vary quite a bit. So I picked the was the one that was the least bright, FS 15102, and tried it on the skin. To my eyes this is nothing like the tail colour shown on the photos of "The Trojan Warhorse" though, so I may stick with my original choice.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33976)
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Well, I did some research on ANA 501 True/Light Blue. Apparently there were two versions of it, pre-43 and post 43. There are lots of colour swatches on the internet and they vary quite a bit. So I picked the was the one that was the least bright, FS 15102, and tried it on the skin. To my eyes this is nothing like the tail colour shown on the photos of "The Trojan Warhorse" though, so I may stick with my original choice.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33976)
I think this specific shade is too bold. But if you were to make it bit more dull, it might look perfect
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Since the tails were painted in the Spring of 1945, it seems to me the color most likely to be correct is post-'43 ANA 501. It may need some desaturation and other adjustments due to AH3's lighting characteristics, but I suspect blue is the right track rather than green.
On a side note, we have a common expression here for an unexpected event - such an event would be described as occurring "Like a bolt out of the Blue".
<S>
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I have had an epiphany regarding the tail colour. ANA 501 Light Blue looks too light and bright to be the right colour going by the colour photos but the written references say it was used. So what if the Group did use it but they darkened it with some black to make the yellow bolts stand out better? To test this I made a copy of the tail colour layer, changed the colour to USAAF Jet Black and placed it above the Light Blue layer in the stack. By altering the opacity of this layer I was able to adjust the overall blend to get the colour you see in the screenshot. Its about 70% Light Blue and 30% Jet Black. This looks pretty close to the colour in the photos to me, the black has not only darkened it but desaturated it too.
I have also redone the squadron badge and altered the fin extension based on some new photos that Lyric1 found for me.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33990)
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You might be on to something there. Maybe desaturate it a little more? It still looks pretty bold to me.
Also, is there a reason you did not paint the entire fin fillet this time?
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Could be, but I can't help thinking True Blue is appearing to bright because you are comparing it to an image that is in shade. How would the tail color in the photo change if the tail was illuminated in bright sunlight rather than being in shade?
I'm not sure where the green is coming from in the tail - I placed a True Blue swatch in the image and overlaid with a swatch of Jet Black at 30% opacity. Using the color picker tool to get at the RGB values, the tail color has much more green relative to the blue compared to my swatch overlays. It looks more like a dark shade of Teal to me.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33992)
Here's a version of the skin on DCS's P-47D (though I would've sworn this was a pic of a real life restored warbird). Does the blue too light? I *think* most people would call that a Medium Blue. Interesting the blue here also does not extend the length of the tail fillet...
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33994)
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Wow.
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Found a better shot. I don't think truly ANA 501, but I would call it a Medium Blue. Quite believable per the written documentation of tail color, but definitely appears different from the old color photo. You've got a tough choice, Greebo!
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33996)
Does this help at all? I took a section of the new WWII color photo and tried to make the sky a more realistic blue - letting my changes also affect the tail color. Yellow-Blue Color Balance shifted toward blue, Master Hue shifter slightly toward blue, increased both saturation and lightness values:
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=33998)
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Played some more, and applied all changes to the whole photo - trying to increase brightness and enhance contrast while increasing bias toward blue from yellow.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=34000)
I agree True Blue seems to light and bright, and you may be on to something with the idea of mixed paints. Could it be they mixed Insignia Blue with True Blue, rather than Jet Black?
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Not a reliable source but since it was there back in the day.
https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-u-s-wwii-p-47-thunderbolt-pilot-named-a-2-flight-jacket-85th-fighter-squadron?variant=31244392267845
https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/38385-a2-jacket-79th-fighter-group-85th-fighter-sqd/
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I have found a whole load of references to ANA 501 on the web, ANA colour charts and model paint swatches mostly. Here's the list I made of their RGB values:-
24/100/147
0/85/136
0/93/137
9/86/140
5/51/84
18/73/127
They vary quite a bit from each other but in all of them while there is more blue than green there is much more green than red. In other words they are all a blue/green colour just like the photos show, not the bright purer blue shown on that DCS skin.
Oboe I think you are getting too hung up on the colour name, just because something is called "True Blue" doesn't mean it is. All your colour balance altered photos still look closer to my colour than the DCS skin colour to me. I don't think the green aspect is because its in shadow either. I suspect the reason so many other secondary sources show a bright blue colour for this aircraft is a question of follow my leader. A modeller or skinner saw the colour on a profile and copied it, then someone copied him and so on. The more of these "references" there are the harder it is for anyone to buck the trend. The fact that its a prettier colour than mine doesn't hurt either.
What we really need is a photo of the colour that is not in shadow. As there doesn't seem to be a colour photo of an 86th FS aircraft like that maybe there is a post 43 photo of a trainer done in the blue fuselage/yellow wings scheme, which was the main use for the ANA 501 colour in WW2. This would need to be an actual WW2 photo though, I don't consider modern warbird colours any more reliable a guide than profiles, skins or models.
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Yes, for as jaw-droppingly stunning as that DCS P-47 skin is, I don't think the tail color is correct - especially after playing around with the latest color photo Lyric found.
No matter how much I try to tease the yellow out and lighten/brighten the overall image, the tail color doesn't appear to be as light/bright as ANA 501. I would guess the DCS skinner read the documented "medium blue" or "light blue" for the tail, looked at existing profiles, and then chose a color that best represents medium or light blue to his eyes.
I'm unable however, to get that color photo to corroborate his color choice, or even ANA 501, however I tweak it. The real color of the tail appears to be quite a bit darker than ANA 501, but not as dark as Insignia Blue. So I think you might be onto something with the idea of a field-mixed custom color blue for the tail.
There is the question of how much Green is present in the color. None of the written documentation we have suggests there was enough green to be evident to the documenter - the color is merely listed as Light Blue or Medium Blue (which does leave open a pretty wide range of values).
One of the complaints about early color film is that it yellows as it ages, besides experiencing color fade and darkening. And each of the component colors in the film can degrade at different rates, muddying the water further. I think its possible that 'yellowing' of the film as it aged has introduced a bias in the blue tail color toward green, resulting in the dark blue-green or teal shade we see in the photo today. But its beyond my crude Photoshop color adjustment skills to really test that theory. No doubt someone with intricate knowledge of the aging characteristics of the film used and much more skill at restoring photos could achieve better results than I did.
<S>!
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Here's a color image of a Vultee BT-13 trainer, with pretty good sun illumination. Note the sky color in the image, which could be a mixture of blue sky & white clouds, or perhaps grey/white clouds. It has a yellowish-green tint to my eye.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=34002)
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I think the documentation isn't describing the colour as light blue but just saying the catalogue name of the colour that was used. USAAF Sea Green is as much blue as green while RAF Duck Egg Blue is as much green as blue. They have to call it something.
The trainer picture is interesting though. Even if I alter the colour balance on it to make the sky bluer the fuselage colour still has a blue/green hue, although perhaps biased a bit more to the blue side than the swatches I used. So with that in mind I have altered the bias slightly from green to blue on my Light Blue colour and used a little less of the Jet Black to darken it up.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=34003)
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I think that's as good as we're going to get. :rock
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I definitely like it better, not that the original color was bad.
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Here's another photo retouch - increasing saturation, brightness, contrast, shifting yellow-blue balance 20% toward blue. The sky appears a little more blue, the C-47 shifts slightly from brown-yellow drab a little toward green. Yet the horse figure on the '47 retains a blue-green hue. And I think we all agree the horse and the tail are most likely the same color?
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=34005)
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As an experiment, rather than starting with an old color photo and seeing if I could restore the original color by playing with the blue/yellow color balance, saturation, brightness, contrast, etc, I thought I'd see if I could go the other direction.
This is what happens when I start with a clean, color-accurate photo and basically reverse the changes I'd been doing to the old photos. I thought it was interesting that I can pretty easily reproduce the blue-green color.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=34009)
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I happened to locate an online edition of the 79th Fighter Group's history, published in 1946:
The Falcon: Combat History of the 79th FG, US AAF 1942-1945 (https://archive.org/details/FalconCombatHistoryOfThe79thFighterGroupUnitedStatesArmyAirForces19421945/page/n91/mode/2up)
Page 93-94 has this color plate of the 86th FS tail:
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=402942.0;attach=34011)
I trust this color plate from the Group's History publication would have to be considered definitive evidence of the proper color, which appears to be very close ANA 501 after all.
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I'm not convinced I need to change the skin again, but I'll have another look at it before the review at the end of the month.
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very nice
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Greebo has the finest bare metal in the game. Amazing work as always! <S>