Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hazmatt on July 12, 2021, 11:37:42 AM
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Anybody know where I could find info on matching a video card to a cpu? I try to build the system where they are matched as I want to push the video card to the max but I don't want to pay for a bleeding edge cpu if I don't need it.
Thanks.
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I just read an article about building computers for various needs and the conclusion was that for most tasks including gaming you rarely need more than six cores and that the single core speed matters. Thus choosing from the fastest modern six core versions should give you enough power for a decent cost.
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exactly.
From what I've read single core performance has the biggest effect.
My question is more like, would an entry level I3 be able to keep up with a RTX 3090. How about an I5?
Same question for AMD.
Also are there any reasons for matching AMD cpu and AMD graphics cards?
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I have a 2500k cpu with a 970 video card. have no problems running ah3 with just about everything on. but I have to dial back during the summer. my office is too hot due to facing the sun all day.
semp
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Why do you want a 3090? For most people that don't do visualizations I believe a 3070 is all they would ever need!
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exactly.
My question is more like, would an entry level I3 be able to keep up with a RTX 3090. How about an I5?
Same question for AMD.
Also are there any reasons for matching AMD cpu and AMD graphics cards?
I might not rely on an i3 with the 3090. An i5-10600/11600 should suffice. By searching for "cpu requirements for rtx 3090" I found several sites listing the pros and cons of various CPU's suitable for the 3090, including also some budget options. Again, I refer to the Finnish article where they clearly said that for gaming you rarely benefit from more than six cores, more being needed for tasks like changing the format of large video files and such. Their recommendation was a modern six core running at the highest speed available, or the second next which may be half the price but only 5% slower. Both Intel and AMD were mentioned so you're free to choose.
Matching video cards with the CPU brand isn't necessary. If you think about it, Intel doesn't even make separate GPU's so pairing Intel with Nvidia is already a nominal mismatch.
When looking at the reviews of processors, the lack of a cooler is often mentioned as a "con". Although the coolers coming with some models are nominally sufficient, they'll let the CPU run hotter not to mention that the noise level is very high when the heat goes up. Most any sub-50 money heatpipe tower type cooler is more efficient with less whine.
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I might not rely on an i3 with the 3090. An i5-10600/11600 should suffice. By searching for "cpu requirements for rtx 3090" I found several sites listing the pros and cons of various CPU's suitable for the 3090, including also some budget options. Again, I refer to the Finnish article where they clearly said that for gaming you rarely benefit from more than six cores, more being needed for tasks like changing the format of large video files and such. Their recommendation was a modern six core running at the highest speed available, or the second next which may be half the price but only 5% slower. Both Intel and AMD were mentioned so you're free to choose.
Matching video cards with the CPU brand isn't necessary. If you think about it, Intel doesn't even make separate GPU's so pairing Intel with Nvidia is already a nominal mismatch.
When looking at the reviews of processors, the lack of a cooler is often mentioned as a "con". Although the coolers coming with some models are nominally sufficient, they'll let the CPU run hotter not to mention that the noise level is very high when the heat goes up. Most any sub-50 money heatpipe tower type cooler is more efficient with less whine.
What about AMD's "Smart Access Memory" feature, when Ryzen 5000-level CPUs are paired with 6000-generation AMD GPUs? I can't recall if Intel/nVidia came out with any competition for this. IIRC, it is a BIOS level setting that allows more efficient transfer of data between an AMD CPU and AMD GPU. It wasn't exactly a game changer, but I think the benefit was a few more fps on an all-AMD system, and I think Intel was scrambling to come up with something similar?
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Why do you want a 3090? For most people that don't do visualizations I believe a 3070 is all they would ever need!
Was using a 3090 as an example. I'd never buy one.
Most likely I'd buy an AMD or if I had to buy non-AMD prolly at 2080 TI.
My 1070 struggle with VR over the large bases with the integrated towns and my CPU is so dated that I doubt I would gain much with a new card.
That said I don't plan to upgrade unless I can get 100% improvement in graphics benchmarks and want to make sure I have a CPU and graphics card that match.
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What about AMD's "Smart Access Memory" feature, when Ryzen 5000-level CPUs are paired with 6000-generation AMD GPUs? I can't recall if Intel/nVidia came out with any competition for this. IIRC, it is a BIOS level setting that allows more efficient transfer of data between an AMD CPU and AMD GPU. It wasn't exactly a game changer, but I think the benefit was a few more fps on an all-AMD system, and I think Intel was scrambling to come up with something similar?
That's something that hasn't been mentioned often. I try to keep roughly updated about gaming hardware but as I don't sell stuff it's somewhat cursory. However, if that really was a showstopper there should be quite a lot of hype which I haven't seen. I remember having read something about combining the powers of CPU integrated and separate GPU's a couple of years ago but after that it's been quite silent about it.
@hazmatt, if you're going to get something less than the 3090, you should be good to go with an i5-10600/11600 or the AMD equivalent. That'd roughly mean about 250-350 money.
Try https://www.userbenchmark.com (https://www.userbenchmark.com) with your current system and change the components from the drop down menus to find a combination that doubles your score.
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Thanks for the info. I was able to quickly determine how to compare cpus on that site.
I'm not at my computer right now but I'm pretty sure my cpu is a 4770 and my video card is a gtx 1070.
Since it's ddr3 I'm gonna need a mb/mem/cpu/card.
Any ideas on what might be double that in an intel/nvidia rig and in an amd/amd rig?
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I went from a I7 with a 1070 gpu to an I9 with a 2070 only for VR.
You are at an expensive time as most of everything needs an upgrade and everything is high $$$ at this time sadly
Eagler
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How much difference did you see in performance?
Do you think I would get more bang for the buck updating the cpu/mb/mem or the video card?
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Hazmatt, based on your specs, your CPU's likely your bottleneck for running VR in AH.
I was running my Quest 2 on an AMD 2500k and an AMD r9 380. It ran, but not politely. Just the way things worked out, I went to an AMD 3700x and was using my 380 for a while. It ran decent in VR but would chug a bit in clouds etc. Now I have a 3060Ti, and it runs well under pretty much all conditions in AH. Your 1070 is a little more powerful than my 380.
The whole thing about single clock speed is true IMO, but going from a 10 year old CPU in my case to something modern, it made an enormous difference even though the clock speed difference (3.3/3.7GHz turbo vs 3.6/4.4 for the 3700x) wasn't enormous. The memory speeds and bus speeds got faster enough that it made a big difference in all aspects.
Based on my experience, I'd expect you'd get more out of upgrading your MB/RAM/CPU than you would just doing the video card in that case.
Wiley.
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A friend just went from i5-4670k to i7-10700k (plus mobo, ram, PSU) and he claims that his GTX 1080 now runs more stable than before. He never actually saw any drops in frame rates on his 1440p 144Hz monitor but he says his reaction time somehow got better. Psychology or reality, hard to tell. Or was it because of a more reliable power supply instead of the beefier processor, who knows?
A GTX1070 is still a killer video card for most purposes. And the i7-4770 shouldn't be bottlenecking either. Doubling the performance of those can be quite hard of a task. Doubling the benchmark scores is within reach but it's another question if you can see the difference in real life.
This benchmark site may also be of interest: https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html (https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html). As you see, the top 5 or so gets double the score of your 1070 but the prices are stellar and if you don't need ray tracing or such that partially raise the scores you may not get any benefit.
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A friend just went from i5-4670k to i7-10700k (plus mobo, ram, PSU) and he claims that his GTX 1080 now runs more stable than before. He never actually saw any drops in frame rates on his 1440p 144Hz monitor but he says his reaction time somehow got better. Psychology or reality, hard to tell. Or was it because of a more reliable power supply instead of the beefier processor, who knows?
A GTX1070 is still a killer video card for most purposes. And the i7-4770 shouldn't be bottlenecking either. Doubling the performance of those can be quite hard of a task. Doubling the benchmark scores is within reach but it's another question if you can see the difference in real life.
This benchmark site may also be of interest: https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html (https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html). As you see, the top 5 or so gets double the score of your 1070 but the prices are stellar and if you don't need ray tracing or such that partially raise the scores you may not get any benefit.
It actually makes sense with the reaction time etc.
I still keep my i5-4670k until I can get a full set, including graphics card, but I noticed -> After I heavily overclocked my processor, reaction times in USB connected equipment (read- joystick,rudder pedals) improved, frame rates with my GTX-1080 was just about the same as before though.
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The upgrade above made it possible to run graphics maxed that doesn't drop frames at the busiest of action in AH
Eagler
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It actually makes sense with the reaction time etc.
I still keep my i5-4670k until I can get a full set, including graphics card, but I noticed -> After I heavily overclocked my processor, reaction times in USB connected equipment (read- joystick,rudder pedals) improved, frame rates with my GTX-1080 was just about the same as before though.
Now that's some interesting piece of information! Sadly though my i7-4790 doesn't allow overclocking.
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Any of you guys have a recommendation bang for the buck motherboard/cpu/mem combo and a video card that would be a major step up from a 1070 that wasn't overpriced?
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hazmatt, as already has been posted the lack of semiconductors is one of the main reasons the prices now are stellar so getting anything high powered for a decent price is difficult.
The GTX1070 is still a pretty strong card, better than my 980 which also is plenty good for modern games. It's been a common rule of thumb that doubling the performance is what one should be looking for when upgrading. If benchmark scores can be used as a measure, according to https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html (https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html) there's only two cards scoring roughly double the 1070, with a margin the top 10 could be considered close to doubling the performance. If we lower the requirement to 40% better that will bring us to top 20 on that chart, starting from RTX 2080. Note that the benchmarks can evaluate features that aren't applicable to all cards. Like, the 1070 doesn't really support ray tracing which is a built-in feature in the RTX 2### and 3### cards.
It seems that at the moment the best bang for the buck gaming rigs are ready made by big manufacturers who have bought the components for the "old" price before the availability issues.
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So my best bet currently would be to buy a pre-built rig and not DIY upgrade?
My concern is what if the prices don't go back down in the reasonable future.
My frame rate have gotten down to unacceptable levels a few time recently in some areas so I'm considering "biting the bullet" depending on how much that bullet ends up costing?
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The prices will go down. There's already new manufacturing plants under construction all over the world so that the world doesn't have to rely on a single location of production. And the current factories have got their production running, it's only a matter of time until the extra demand has been fulfilled.
A pre-build rig can be as good as a DIY with a couple of caveats. First, the bigger the brand the more dedicated many components may be. CPU, RAM and GPU are generic and interchangeable. The motherboard connectors and the power supply may not be easily changed. Second, some manufacturers limit the brands and versions of upgradeable components through a whitelist coded in the BIOS. At least HP has been known not to allow video card upgrades higher than the next generation, and I've also seen some WiFi cards not being compatible with some HP laptops. It's really annoying to find it out the hard way when you get a new component and the computer refuses to boot!
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Oh boy. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info!
I will defiantly steer clear of HP.
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The last computer I bought was an Apple G3 ~ /JS
.....and Bizman has spent about 1,500 hrs helping me through my homebuilds :rock :old:
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I will defiantly steer clear of HP.
I wouldn't. First, the GPU upgrade issues I mentioned were from the GTX6### era so we can't be sure if they still do that. As I said the biggest issue with a brand name build is that you can't swap many of the components at will. That should be no problem if you know it beforehand and act accordingly. They're solid builds and if you get a rig that's powerful enough for your needs for a number of years to come there should be no issue during the lifespan of the computer. Getting a slightly underpowered system to start with and beefing it up every Black Friday and other Big Sale seasons is the most expensive way.
Regarding the lack of semiconductors, in May our leading PC magazine tested pre-built brand name gaming PC's. They couldn't get half of the brands they wanted since there wasn't any applicable models available at the time. So although I earlier said that the big names may have been better prepared to the situation, even they suffer. The best option is to stick with your old system until the situation gets back to normal.
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Like a lot of things that have big spikes in price the prices are coming down on these things for a number of reasons. Crypto currency is dropping. The Chinese gubment cracking down on the miners there, etc. This affects the crazy ammount of demand. But like everything else, once the price goes up like that there's almost never a corresponding sharp drop in price. It's always like a leaf slowly drifting to the ground. In this case drifting down from sub-orbital levels! Still, that price may never bottom out to what it should be @MSRP. It'd be nice. I'd like to complete my build from 3/19 finally!
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