Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: easymo on June 28, 2000, 09:38:00 PM
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Have you guys dumbed down the guns Fighter v fighter. Or is it my computer.
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Yes, they took pity on your hit percentage and enabled watermelon sized rounds for you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) g,d,r
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punt
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Would this be the equivelent of saying "I'm not killing as many", or "my score is suffering, therefore it must be a software problem, no way would it be possible that someone is better than me.." ?
<G,D,R> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
<S> Easy, you in the dueling ladder? Come join us!
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 06-29-2000).]
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If that's really a straightforward question, then the straightforward answer would be no. However, I don't think that's really what you're asking. This isn't jeopardy, questions don't have to be asked in the form of a whine. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) 20mm's have decreased lethality for the most part, 30mm went up a little bit but armor penetration decreased. The rest stayed the same except for some minor changes in armor penetration with .50s.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
"I say old boy, why don't you shut up and die like a man?"
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No. It is my way of asking. Have you been screwing around with the gunnery/damage model? Or do I need to send the computer back to the shop.
That is how it started in WB.
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I posted the same time as pyro.
BTW. I reread my first post. I dont see how thats a whine. But this is. How the heck can you change something as central to the game, as the effectiveness of the 20mm. Without announceing it.
[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 06-29-2000).]
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posted by Pyro on 6-9-00
"Reformulated aircraft cannon characteristics. Fixed some problems in relative 20mm values and the problem with MK 108 armor penetration"
It may not be as specific as you want, but in the news section It seems that he has posted what actually shows up in the game.
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The only problem in relative 20mm effectiveness I saw. Was that the ROF of the axis guns was absurdly slow relative to the 1c and spit.
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Have you guys dumbed down the guns Fighter v fighter. Or is it my computer.
A non whine version would have been .
Pyro have you changed anything in gun lethalitys effecting plane v plane. I just sense somthings different.
The phrase dumbed down instnatly elevates the post to the level of a whine because in that choice of word's you imply 1. You disagree with the change if it was made. 2 it implies that we just wish to make things easyer.
The 2nd part is also a whine. You assume that lethalities are affected by your computer, and hence implie there is a bug some where. Now there may or not be a bug we don't know about, but that is irelevent for the purposes of this discusion. The tone instantly accuses us of having a problem with guns on your computer specificly.
BTW easymo this is realy not ment as a flame.
But it is the choice of words that set the whine v question of your post.
As to did we announce it, we did, just not the specifics, check both the readme,our news thread. And dicusions in ah general catigory pyro states that he went back over the weapon settings and change a few things.
HiTech
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Now HT. You had to know if you reduced the lethality of the cannons. The first guy to start screeming would be me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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20mm's have decreased lethality for the most part, 30mm went up a little bit but armor penetration decreased. The rest stayed the same except for some minor changes in armor penetration with .50s.
EasyMo's initial post did sound like a whine to me, too. OTOH, if Pyro had stated the changes this clearly in the first place, that might have prevented any misunderstanding.
Btw, I'm having a ball in 1.03, regardless of the guns changes. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Pyro's initial response raised an eyebrow with me. My first thought was 1. "this guys been up programming too long and is a bit cranky" Second thought,
2. "This guys been up playing AH too long and is a bit cranky" and 3. This guy ain't gettin' it regular and is a bit cranky (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I work in an otc trading room all day and one of the things I do is handle customer (other institutions) inquiries regarding trade questions. I can only imagine what the response would be from both the customer and my bosses if I were to communicate to a customer that their inquiry was a whine. Not tryin' to tell ya how to run your shop, I think you guys are doin' a great job, just trying to illustrate how some people may interprete a response like that.
I'm pretty sure I'm gettin a bit cranky cause I aint got enough time to play (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
CRASH
Originally posted by hitech:
A non whine version would have been .
Pyro have you changed anything in gun lethalitys effecting plane v plane. I just sense somthings different.
The phrase dumbed down instnatly elevates the post to the level of a whine because in that choice of word's you imply 1. You disagree with the change if it was made. 2 it implies that we just wish to make things easyer.
The 2nd part is also a whine. You assume that lethalities are affected by your computer, and hence implie there is a bug some where. Now there may or not be a bug we don't know about, but that is irelevent for the purposes of this discusion. The tone instantly accuses us of having a problem with guns on your computer specificly.
BTW easymo this is realy not ment as a flame.
But it is the choice of words that set the whine v question of your post.
As to did we announce it, we did, just not the specifics, check both the readme,our news thread. And dicusions in ah general catigory pyro states that he went back over the weapon settings and change a few things.
HiTech
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IMO the guns are the best that they have ever been in all the time I've played AH. WTG Pyro. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(Just an observation, but isn't it correct in the case of the planes currently in AH that the LW cannon would fire much slower. My thought is that the 190 (cannons in the wingroots) would have to fire through the prop, hence an interupter gear is neccesary and ROF would drop by about 25%. All of the allied cannon birds have their cannon way out on the wings and hence can fire at the maximum rate of fire possible. Isn't it also true that the MG151 had a slightly lower ROF than the Hispano Mk. II? )
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IMHO the guns are probably still too strong. But having never fired a gun at an aircraft, and possessing none of the analytical tools to estimate damage, I admit it's nothing more than an opinion. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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its now officially perfect and needs no more fiddling with.
guns is excelently balanced now
they dont need fixing
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Im so sick and tired of people knowing exactly what kind of quality the armour had vs the cannons/machineguns 39-45.
Let the guys do the game, if you havīnt noticed, itīs the same for everyone.
AH is our universe and HTC sets up the naturallaws. Hypotetical questions from people never been there doin the real thing, claming uber/undermodelled stuff, are very boring.
Why dont you guys go and buy the real thing and set up a arena for real, with live bullets? Shure, it would cost a bit and maybe you would finelly get the answer.
The one who lives could come and tell the rest here about the lethality, ok?
Crabofix
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well said crabo.
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"Happiness is a belt-fed weapon"
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Pyro, could you clarify
"minor changes in armor penetration with .50s"
?
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No offence fellas, but who has a clue what damage should or should not be?
I deal with aircraft everyday, main point repairing them. Of course WWII planes,they aint,but still, ya get a feel for what grade of aluminum makes up what. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The older planes were crap compared to even a small turboprop today.
The final translation is the sim ala AH.I simply can't make a educated response,cuz,well, Im trying to get ED-U MA-Cated. I have no idea how they make 1001001001 make a computer see a accurate damage model.Still, it SEEMS just right. I dig it!Still there willbe a mass of "experts" who feel they "Know" what should do what and when.
Without getting all number crunchy, take these 2 points.
1. Aircraft are so fragile, even wind will fuk em up.
2. A single, yes single,.30mm should really make your AH day toejamty. See next case in point-
Here's real life,and what 1 BIRD does to a modern aircraft relative to the size of a B17.
(http://ckremer.home.mindspring.com/Duck.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 06-30-2000).]
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Ditto Crabo!
Cheers,
Pepino
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Nah, Creamo, That bird was overmodelled! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
RL damage is porked!!! I'll Whine to God so he fixes it!!!! If he doesnt it I'll quit!!!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
WTG HTC! I also think that new modelling is much better than before!.
1.03 simply ROCKS!!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 06-30-2000).]
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I'm with Citabria, the guns are about as good as they are going to get, so lets leave em alone. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
A bird Creamo?? Well that was obviously a 1998 model Condor with the oversized 5 ft wingspan. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) But since they are an endangered species you can obviously see from the production numbers (birth numbers??) that they are not representative of the average bird strike (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Creamo is right--I have seen the results of several birdstrikes here on the Air Force Base I work at, and these are F15E's made out of a "different" material than metal, The damage is impressive, cna imagine what 20MM would do.
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Don't forget, modern jet aircraft would be moving a heck of a lot faster than a WWII fighter. Also, birds weight a LOT more than a bullet does. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The pilots of that jet above must have needed a change of shorts after that one!
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
(http://tuweb.ucis.dal.ca/~dconrad/ahf/lepht.gif)
"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl
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Lepthurn 99% of all birdstrikes happen within 500feet of the ground and a B737 on finals flies at about 135 - 160 knots .. true the bird is a lot heavier than a 20mm grenade but it's a hell of a lot slower AND it doesn't explode (well sorta)
We had a Birdstrike recently on an engine cowl where the Bird hit the colw just at the heated lip (very strong and thick material) it made a "dent" about 1 1/2 foot wide, 13 inches across and 10 inch deep (then it hit the bulkhead..)
I'll try to post that pic as soon as i'm in the office again..
DW6
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What Duckwing said -
I'll add I don't really think a single .20 or .30mm should bring down a plane, (in theory they could ala pilot headshot or engine), but should'nt take a whole lot either.
AH damage model seems right on.
BTW, those ducks damn near downed that plane. It was a mess. Check out the gore and the wing damage.
We added a little nose art for the victories too... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://ckremer.home.mindspring.com/Ducky.gif)
[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 06-30-2000).]
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Im waighing in on the,lets just leave the guns alone now, side.
The constant changes in that other sim drove me nuts. Well... nutty,er
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I want guns that fire BIRDS (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
takatakataka squwaaaark booom (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I'll add I don't really think a single .20 or .30mm should bring down a plane
There's a good chance a 30mm will.
(http://jg27.org/30mm.jpg)
That's what a 30mm strike looks liek on the fueslage of a spitfire.
Btw, I agree with you that the gunnery seems well balanced.