Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on April 13, 2000, 06:43:00 AM
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Fighters:
Luftwaffe
1. Fw190A-8
2. Bf109f-4
3. Bf109G-2
4. Bf109G-6
5. Bf109G-10
USAAF/USN
1. P-38L
2. P-51D
3. F4U-1C
4. F4U-1D
RAF
1. Spitfire IX
2. Spitfire V
3. Typhoon
Italy
1. C.202
2. C.205
Russia
1. La-5FN
IJN/IJA
1. N1K2-J
Bombers:
USAAF
1. B-17G
2. B-26B
3. C-47A
Vehicles:
U.S.
1. M-16
Germany
1. Panzer IV Type H
I for one would love to see one day in AH
A6m5a
Ki44
Ki61
Yak 9
Lagg 3
Mig 3
IL-2
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"There are no born fighter pilots. Some are a little better than others, thats about it. But I would say time, training, training, training and more training are the key... to any success." -Francis Gabreski
Citabria
=357th Pony Express=
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Competitive Fighters:
Luftwaffe
1. Bf109G-10
USAAF/USN
1. P-38L
2. P-51D
3. F4U-1C
RAF
1. Spitfire IX
2. Typhoon
Italy
1. C.205 (so so)
Russia
1. La-5FN
IJN/IJA
1. N1K2-J
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hey!
stop hijacking my topic!
darn luftwabbles (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Preach on brother Citabria , Preach ON!!!
Didn't the Russians produce more aircraft than any other single nation of the war (will have to check myself)?
And I would hardly call the Japanese a minor participant either.
Russians Preferences: Yak-9U, Yak-3(vk107), and La7
Japanese Preferences: Ki-84, Ki-44, Ki-100
Come on Pyro, we have Enough American and German Fighters for a while.
Hristo, if you consider the La5fn competitive in this arena, I challenge you to fly in soley for a tour and then compare it to your normal tours you fly in your G10. Plus the Fw190A8 is just as competitive as the F4U series, in fact they fly very similarly.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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I second that, we need a new Japanese fighter. I dont think that the Zeke 5 will be a good choice, with all these hight-alt monsters we have now in the arena. The Zeke 5 is slow.
Was there a good high alt interceptor in the Japanese Army or Naval Forces? Maybe the Ki84? Or those fighters with B-29 interception duty? Can someone help me?
And yes, we need also a new Russian a/c, like a Yak-3 or a La7. Definitely.
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Hristo, almost agree with your list but ...
... If we consider competitive fighters those caplable of buff hunting, we should erase 109G10 and P51D, and write a line for the 190A8.
Having used 109G10 for a while, it lacks of control at high speeds, and actually most of the low level combats are avobe 250 mph. Its weaponry is weak and the gondolas add too much drag and roll inertia. This plane is competitive to scape but getting victories quickly with it is a hard task. So, at least, germans have only two semi-competitive planes.
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My best score was in 190A-8, some 216 kills vs 16 deaths or so. However, only due to vulching and very careful flying. Very very hard to win from co-E position.
As for flying La, no chance. It just has wrong markings. If I would have to choose plane, no matter for what side it flew, I'd choose P 51D.
As it is now, I'd trade all LW planes except G-10 for the Dora. Then again, I'd trade all of them for 262 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 04-13-2000).]
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I'd like to see things that fit into the planeset and add variety while still being competitive.
Ki61 would be a great addition as it was the only japanese fighter capable of intercepting the B-29s. and it had cannons (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
A6m5a is fast as a zero can get and climbed like angel so at low altitude where the fights are now with new strat, bombsight and vehicles n jabo it would be able to compete with the spifire IX quite well (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I always disliked the idea of a Ki84 because in real life it was a total lemon and actuall performed worse than the Ki44. but in the sim you would either have to make it perform below the western numbers to accurately reflect its combat performance or make it a total uber ride it is in warbirds.
LA7 would be good too but I believe its only feature was 10mph increase in speed while increase in weight from all metal body making it less of a nimble dogfighter?
yak9 would be better fit but yak 3 seems like it would hurt the variety in the planeset since it holds all the cards up to 20k feet much the same way the spit XIV does through all altitudes (I hate both these planes because of that)
I always wanted to see how the russian I-16 rat stacked up in AH with its turn on dime ability (they still fly in RL too! )
but just philosiphizing i guess I'll shutup now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 04-13-2000).]
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Hristo,
Exactly what is "not competitive"?
Basically in the MA if it has cannon it is competive. These numbers were from yesterday.
By Minotaur:
I have to admit that maybe the game needs another fast cannon equiped bird. Other ones of note that are doing well in Tour3.
K/D --> Plane
1.94 --> F4U-1C
1.54 --> 109G-10
1.34 --> 109G-2
1.24 --> 190A-8
1.20 --> C.205
1.17 --> N1K2
0.95 --> P-38L
0.94 --> 109G-6
0.85 --> La-5FN
The only non-cannon plane above a K/D of 1 was the P51-D at 1.01 for Tour3.
I did not include the Spits, due to piont defense and vulching prior to the new version.
It appears as though the La-5FN or the 109G-2 is not flown widely. The K/D numbers were fairly low.
The Typhoon has not made it onto the "Scores" data base yet, that is why it is omitted.
BTW who stopped flying the 109G-6, the K/D is below 1 now?
Bring it on! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
IMO, any variation in the plane set is good and the Russian or Japanese planes should certainly be welcomed.
Good Day! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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I must disagree with those who say that the LA5 is not competitive....
This plane is awesome... Only drawback i find is fuel load... Yes at above 8000' your manofold wont go over 42, but even with that this plane still proforms well under 20k...
This plane dives with the best of them... this allows me to sucker would be pilots into following me into this low angle energy dive into my prefered killing zone of 8k or less...
at that alt i'll tango with anyfighter 1 vs 1 and most 1 vs 2 due to the extreme accel of the engine on the LA5... only the 109g10 comes close so i can fly circles around any other plane... against a g10 i have slower stall speed or at least more stable near stall handling.. very useful in killing them...
2 20mm is a excellent load out... when i get hits i know i do dammage unlike the 109 which sometimes only the mg tag them and they fly away... Now on snapshots the slow ROF of the russian 20mm is noticable but not too bad in my opinion.
I would also like to point out that a well flown g6 is as dangerous if not more so than a g10... why? the g6 really handles nice. great climb and top speed of about 350mph (needed for arena survival) and most important very stable...
Only planes i would not prefer in gerneral arena are the 202 and 109f and spit5... not to say these planes are not effective in the 1 vs 1 but we all know this is gangbang high so with that in mind escape speed is crucial.
Anyplane that has a topspeed of 325 or more will be most effective. the faster the better... Mustang is by far the best for K/D, i have had a perfect record in it.. now as far as my recent stints in JABO those have been my only deaths.
just my 2 cents
DoctorYO
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I agree with DoctorYo on the La-5FN, and frankly, I feel that many people try to fight with it too high. The best overall alt range for combat in a La-5FN is around 10-13k, but it turns into a real killing monster from 7k, down, when WEP kicks in. I've never had trouble with the two 20mm ShVAKs. All I need is a solid 3-5 pings from them to bring a fighter down.
Citabria, regarding your comment on the La-7, it basically housed the same engine as the La-5FN yet was around 190kg(418lbs) lighter, and was also aerodynamically refined, unlike the La-5. Also, the three 20mm B-20 loadout of the La-7, including ammunition, was actually lighter than the two 20mm ShVAK loadout with full ammunition that was the norm in the La-5FN. Also, the La-7 was still primarily wood construction with duraluminum wing spars (la-5 had wooden wing spars).
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 04-14-2000).]
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KI84 with stop the 1c whines.
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KI-61 (2 20mm cannon version)can do the 4.50's as a variant later.
KI-45 Nick This one is born for AH. Never been seen in a recent Sim that I'm aware of.
KI-84 YEP it's a bad boy. Bring the P51's, the 190's & the F4u's into line. (also my all time fav 262 killing machine)
Also
J2M3 Raiden (Thunderbolt)
Armament 4 wing mounted 20mm type 99 model 2 cannons.
2 60kg bombs or 2 200 litre drop tanks.
Powerplant 1 Mitsubishi MK4R 14 cyl radial rated at 1,800 hp takeoff. 1,575 at 1,800 meters, and 1,410 at 4,800 meters driveing a 4 blade constant speed metal prop. (Data given is for the J2M3)
Max speed 317kt at 5,300 m
Climb to 6,000 Meters in 6 min 14 secs.
Aprox 260 J2M3 built with at total of 476 for all variants.
Allocated to the 302nd,332nd,352, 381st, Genzan, & Tainan Kokutais. http://www.skypoint.com/members/jbp/ijna/j2m.htm (http://www.skypoint.com/members/jbp/ijna/j2m.htm)
VERY long term wishlist, A6M2-N (Essentially a Zero on floats)
H8K "Emily" flying Boat
H6k "Mavis" Flying Boat
OK call me a dreamer, but if anyone can do it HiTech & Pyro can!
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Maj Ghosth
XO 332nd Flying Mongrels
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If you have any doubts about LA-5, check my score in LA-5 in tour 1 and tour 2...I am just an average pilot. The LA-5 is indeed a fine aircraft.
This time next year, I'll bet the planeset is double what it is now.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-14-2000).]
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Minotaur,
death/kill ratios are bullcrap, when you do guys learn that?
You can as well see Spitfire lose its ratio alot when it is being used on base defence alot (vulch vulch vulch, easy kills)
and so on...
If you wan't to make real death/kill ratio sort of "the best plane ever" table, you should do research on each plane, not just look "hey, look how that has score 1:10 and flown couple times, but that other has flown 10000 times and has 1:1!"
Add equal pilot on each plane, then begin doing your research what is best plane..
What I think, is that luftwaffe needs better planes against these late war stuffs..
They're missing stuff like 190D or Ta-152, but allies are not missing anything (P-38L, P-51D.....)
japs has their N1K2 what was rarely built!
even Italians have C.205 and C.202...
But germans only have their most built ones.
Wonder they haven't done Spitfrie XIV yet.
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Wow, you Luffelewaffle boys sure do whine. Any thread that asks for any aircraft for any side inevitably ends up dominated by luffelwaffle babble about not have anything that is competitive. If I recall correctly the Bf-109G-10 is in fact a Bf-109K in all but name. That is a very late war plane. I would not count the C.202 or La-5FN as late war, better than anything the German flyers have. Yeesh, one of you is even whineing about a plane that isn't in the game and is not on any list to be added, the Spit XIV.
I think we all know that you guys REALLY want the Ta-152, Fw-190D-9, Bf-109K-4/6 and Me-262 by now. And yes we know that many of you think it should be the top priority. I'm sure Pyro and HiTech are also well aware of your opinions by now as well.
My request is this: Would it be possible to let others have a thread to advocate theri Aircraft? In this case Russian and Japanese.
Thanks
Sisu
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OK, let's be realistic and ask for impossible: Go 229 !!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Oooooo... Hristo we finally agree (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But lets just ask for All the aircraft from Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe (SWOTL) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Judo chop!
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Karnak:
I understand why you are a little crossed.However go see any LW-we-want-this-or-that thread, and you will se hijacking in full flower.
Other that that: bring them in - including the Spit XIV ;=)
danish
[This message has been edited by danish (edited 04-14-2000).]
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Danish, I didn't mean to be sharp, but the German plane flyers seem much more aggressive to me. Note what the 2nd post on this thread is about. It seems that most of the posters fly German aircraft by choice and their numbers sometimes conspire to drown us non-German plane flyers out. If you look at the playing card graphics, you'll find more German planes than any other, I've never even seen a Russian or British plane on one of those.
I pesonally would love to see the Fw 190D-9, but I think the Russian and Japanese plane flyers do have a more legitimate gripe. I would like to see the A6M5c Zero, J2M3 Raiden, YAK-3 and YAK-9 before I see the Fw 190D-9 or Spitfire MkXIV (and the XIV is my personal choice for a ride).
Sisu
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Ahem (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/sorrow/sorrow.gif)
[This message has been edited by Sorrow[S=A] (edited 04-14-2000).]
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More Russian and Japanese planes soon.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
Perfect plans, aren't.
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Heh, Sorrow, I'd never seen your card before. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Thanks for the note Pyro.
Sisu
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KI84 KI84KI84. Oops lost it there for a minute.
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ah man anything but dang Ki84.
It was total piece of crap in real life (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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I flew 109G6/R6 in Tour2 almost exclusevly.
In the first day of Tour3 I tryed La-5FN.
Instantly I found out that I was not able to hit anything with deflection shots. Soon I understood I needed much more deflection angles to shot the enemy. I was embarrased.
MG-151 and SHVAK are known to be similar guns with similar ballistics. SHVAK was even slightly better. I switched back to Me-109 and checked that my gunnery was ok and that's something wrong with La-5 cannons.
I can only add that La-5 will be much better with 2 x MG-151 in this game.
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aper, really? Hm, I've been flying La-5FN since beta, and my gunnery is never below 9% (right now 13%). But, maybe that is why I don't see a problem, because La-5FN is really all I've flown for 99% of my fighter sorties.
Maybe, I should fly G-6 for this remaining tour ...
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
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You would be shocked leo, remember how much I have squeaked about those cannons? They spread more than any of the other cannons (that's INCLUDING wing mounted ones that should spread worse) although tighter from the "country mile" we had in beta. They are also SO SLOW. I fire the 190 cannon after the La5 and I swear I lead 2x as far as I need to compared to ShVAK.
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Yeah Funked, Sorrow and Aper are dead on.
Every time I climb back into the La5 (was in one last night), I gotta do a serious readjustment on my shooting due to the ShVak Cannons.
I wish there was a way I could think of, to test them and check for bugs.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Wow. Very interesting. Aper is right about the similar characteristics between MG-151 & ShVAK, and the Soviet cannon was slightly better than the German one. Maybe I should have listened harder to you, squadie (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I will fly G-6 for the rest of this tour, using only 20mm cannon, and take a long, hard look at this.
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
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Originally posted by Fishu:
Minotaur,
death/kill ratios are bullcrap, when you do guys learn that?
You can as well see Spitfire lose its ratio alot when it is being used on base defence alot (vulch vulch vulch, easy kills)
and so on...
<snip>
Fishu, you'll notice that I left the Spit IX off the list for this very reason. IMO Stats are not BS, they reflective comparisons, nothing more.
When the game settles out again after the new version, I'm sure the SpitWhine will go up in volume. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
By Vermillion:
Every time I climb back into the La5 (was in one last night), I gotta do a serious readjustment on my shooting due to the ShVak Cannons.
Hmmmm... This might solve a thing or two for myself also. I have been trying to like the La5, particularly as a low altitude interceptor, but have had troubles in it.
Thanks! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 04-15-2000).]
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
HOW about the P-63 King cobra for the Russians.. Was a good enough performer would give the RUssian one hell of a Tanks buster and a very good dogfighter. Reports on the P-63 said that it could keep pretty good pace with the P51.
My 2 CENTS!
Gorf
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Tried La in TA few times. In dogfight the plane will outperform G-10 on the deck in every aspect.
As for guns, there is a differenc. However, I'd consider low sightline and specific nose of LA.
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From my 1st impression on testing MG-151 in the G-6 I have to say I'm undecided. I really couldn't get a feeling one way or the other about the two 20mm cannons. It did seem like the MG-151 ran "truer"(?), but I really think that's a visual effect from having a larger gunsight in the G-6 than in the La-5FN. In fact, I literally measured the gunsights of the two planes and noticed that the La-5FN's gunsight is quite a bit smaller, resulting in less view space to line-up targets. Also, the air intake of the La-5FN really blocks out a lot of the view for lining up targets. Having so little room to see and line up your target in a La-5FN really does make it harder for lead shots, as well as wide deflection shots.
I have to say though that the MG-151 doesn't fire at a faster rate than the ShVAK. I'll continue flying the 109 until I get a few good opportunities at lead shots (so far, all my 109 kills have been surprises of one sort or another).
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
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It makes sense that the MG 151/20 in the Bf 109 would have low dispersion. It's mounted to the engine block! Most dispersion (I'm told) is caused by deflection of the structure to which the gun is attached. The engine block is by far the most sturdy piece of metal in the airplane.
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Funked: where do you think the ShVAK are attached to? Either side of the same block.
Leo- the best test I have found is to zoom 1000% percent until the gunsight fills your whole field of view. Fire small busts and see how big a "square" the tracers hit. I reduce conv to to 275 on La5 to make it's cross more visible.
As for tracking shots, best way to see is with recordings. slow it right down and inspect just how far off your nose was when you started firing. In my collection the ShVAK requires about 30% more lead than the 109. Often in recordings I astonish myself at how I almost blew a pass by firing WAAY too late, only catching the tail of the plane, often watching that 5th tracer miss while the previous 4 rounds hit. yet in the cockpit view it seems I fired ridiculously early.
With a bit of review I am positive you will notice the velocity variation between these two.
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Peee-Forty-Seven!
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wells.. did you read ANYTHING above that post?
What in gods name has a "p-47" got to do with any of it?
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P-47 "M" actually.
-Westy